Swoop
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Location: Canada
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WestJet says Swoop still headed for June takeoff despite issues with union - Calgary - CBC News
According to CBC the WestJet Pilots union won the complaint against WestJet. Will be interesting to see what WestJet does given this ruling.
According to CBC the WestJet Pilots union won the complaint against WestJet. Will be interesting to see what WestJet does given this ruling.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Wherever I go, there I am
Age: 43
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https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.theg...ticle38247007/
Even more interesting considering that Gregg Saretzky is “retiring” effective immediately.
Dark days ahead for the WJ stock price as this is far too much uncertainty, but maybe clearer skies for the employee group.
Even more interesting considering that Gregg Saretzky is “retiring” effective immediately.
Dark days ahead for the WJ stock price as this is far too much uncertainty, but maybe clearer skies for the employee group.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Canada
Age: 40
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Canada
Age: 40
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Captain..Swoop...........Sunwing (2017*)....Transat (narrowbody)
Step 1 - $103.57.........$103.57.............$103.57
Step 2 - $119.50.........$119.50.............$119.50
Step 3 - $131.46.........$131.46.............$131.46
Step 1 - $103.57.........$103.57.............$103.57
Step 2 - $119.50.........$119.50.............$119.50
Step 3 - $131.46.........$131.46.............$131.46
Are you saying that an Air Transat B737 captain makes the same money as the captain at Swoop?
Join Date: Jan 2002
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I've been out of the business for over two years now, but from what I hear and perhaps stating the obvious, there appears to be an important shortage of airplane drivers in canada, let alone moderately experienced ones.
So, how is Swoop going to crew both the left seat and the right seat?
So, how is Swoop going to crew both the left seat and the right seat?
Join Date: Nov 2001
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In any case they are dumping the 737 and going with all new Airbus Neos.
I can't believe those salaries. That's what 737 pilots got thirty years ago in Canada. The rest of the world is paying around $300 plus all the extras. The pilot shortage can’t come soon enough or bite hard enough.
Join Date: Jan 2002
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A little off topic, but at the end of the day, my observations will come full circle to the swoop phenomena.
The previous poster indicated that he left the business because pilot salaries were low. I agree that pilot salaries should be better, there is a skill set that needs to be properly compensated.
Having said that...........
Unless you are a doctor, lawyer, top level computer programmer, university professor, a specialist engineer in any field, not just the run of the mill engineer, successful artist, not the run of the mill kind, you will not attain the income levels that everybody in the aviation business thinks are a commonplace situation.
I'll say it again, pilots deserve a higher income level, but you will be negatively surprised at the other income levels out there in society. Been there, out of work looking for anything, and salaries are depressingly low. Even for high skilled jobs.
This is just a reality check, everyone thinks that the grass is greener on the other side. It Isn't.
Back to things like swoop.......the hiring people don't make a whole lot of money, contrary to popular belief, so....they naturally and unfortunately are not sympathetic to paying the big bucks to what they perceive as skilled ''bus drivers''.
The big guys rake in the money, rank and file employees do not. Even if you are a pilot.
Bottom line...........pilot salaries are marginally just OK, and they should be better, but everyone around you in society makes not even a quarter of the typical pilot salary. It's a tough battle, life is not so nice out on the street.
The previous poster indicated that he left the business because pilot salaries were low. I agree that pilot salaries should be better, there is a skill set that needs to be properly compensated.
Having said that...........
Unless you are a doctor, lawyer, top level computer programmer, university professor, a specialist engineer in any field, not just the run of the mill engineer, successful artist, not the run of the mill kind, you will not attain the income levels that everybody in the aviation business thinks are a commonplace situation.
I'll say it again, pilots deserve a higher income level, but you will be negatively surprised at the other income levels out there in society. Been there, out of work looking for anything, and salaries are depressingly low. Even for high skilled jobs.
This is just a reality check, everyone thinks that the grass is greener on the other side. It Isn't.
Back to things like swoop.......the hiring people don't make a whole lot of money, contrary to popular belief, so....they naturally and unfortunately are not sympathetic to paying the big bucks to what they perceive as skilled ''bus drivers''.
The big guys rake in the money, rank and file employees do not. Even if you are a pilot.
Bottom line...........pilot salaries are marginally just OK, and they should be better, but everyone around you in society makes not even a quarter of the typical pilot salary. It's a tough battle, life is not so nice out on the street.
You might need to get out more. Where I work a 737 captain makes 300- 360K. F/O pay is around 2/3 of that. Six weeks paid leave.
In the US their legacy pay is even higher with a lower cost of living. And I read that Canadians may soon be able to get a visa to at least work at a regional.
There is a developing shortage of pilots in the world. I would never advocate becoming an expat, but it can be an effective way to claw your way back to what we used to call the upper middle class.
In the US their legacy pay is even higher with a lower cost of living. And I read that Canadians may soon be able to get a visa to at least work at a regional.
There is a developing shortage of pilots in the world. I would never advocate becoming an expat, but it can be an effective way to claw your way back to what we used to call the upper middle class.
You might need to get out more. Where I work a 737 captain makes 300- 360K. F/O pay is around 2/3 of that. Six weeks paid leave.
In the US their legacy pay is even higher with a lower cost of living. And I read that Canadians may soon be able to get a visa to at least work at a regional.
There is a developing shortage of pilots in the world. I would never advocate becoming an expat, but it can be an effective way to claw your way back to what we used to call the upper middle class.
In the US their legacy pay is even higher with a lower cost of living. And I read that Canadians may soon be able to get a visa to at least work at a regional.
There is a developing shortage of pilots in the world. I would never advocate becoming an expat, but it can be an effective way to claw your way back to what we used to call the upper middle class.
IIRC, unless the pay scale at Air Canada changed, the most senior captains on the B777 make less than $300K base salary and Airbus 320 type captains make around $200K.
I don't reside in North America, hence my mention of becoming an expat.
I was told (but did not verify) that a SW captain (friend of a friend) made $406 last year.
Wrt to 360 K...
To balance: pretty expensive country, crap staff travel compared to the North American standard.
We have F/Os on A380 making north of $300...hell, a high time S/O did $280.
Company made record profits last year, btw.
I was told (but did not verify) that a SW captain (friend of a friend) made $406 last year.
Wrt to 360 K...
To balance: pretty expensive country, crap staff travel compared to the North American standard.
We have F/Os on A380 making north of $300...hell, a high time S/O did $280.
Company made record profits last year, btw.
Last edited by Australopithecus; 23rd Apr 2018 at 23:00.
I don't reside in North America, hence my mention of becoming an expat.
I was told (but did not verify) that a SW captain (friend of a friend) made $406 last year.
Wrt to 360 K...
4th year 737 captain pay $304/hr plus 10% retirement contribution plus $34/day incidentals plus $168/day meals plus six weeks vacation*, 18 sick days and full pay for trainng.
*on joining. 7.4 weeks after ten years service.
You can fly 900 hours in 10.5 months, get vacation pay etc and top $348 plus $20 k allowances plus $21k pension. I just spoke with a well known overtime hound who managed to top 400 last year, but he was the extreme outlier.
To balance: pretty expensive country, crap staff travel compared to the North American standard.
We have F/Os on A380 making north of $300...hell, a high time S/O did $280.
Company made record profits last year, btw.
I was told (but did not verify) that a SW captain (friend of a friend) made $406 last year.
Wrt to 360 K...
4th year 737 captain pay $304/hr plus 10% retirement contribution plus $34/day incidentals plus $168/day meals plus six weeks vacation*, 18 sick days and full pay for trainng.
*on joining. 7.4 weeks after ten years service.
You can fly 900 hours in 10.5 months, get vacation pay etc and top $348 plus $20 k allowances plus $21k pension. I just spoke with a well known overtime hound who managed to top 400 last year, but he was the extreme outlier.
To balance: pretty expensive country, crap staff travel compared to the North American standard.
We have F/Os on A380 making north of $300...hell, a high time S/O did $280.
Company made record profits last year, btw.
In fact both Delta's and United's 12 year pay scale for captains on the B737 pay better than Southwest by $12K to $14K a year.
In the case of United on his 12th year a captain will make about $219K and at Delta about $217K that is for their base salary, no overtime included and certainly no per diem which shouldn't be counted for a salary.
If you want to compare apples with apples then only the base salary counts all other benefits are "extras".
BTW, the figure I get for Southwest is $214.45/hour for a 12 year captain.
The captain flying the Airbus 350 at United on the 12th year scale make just under $285K.
Join Date: Jan 2002
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I'll say it again, I support good pay.
I guess that I am of the old group where half of my flying days were pre 9/11 and half were post 9/11. Pre 9/11 salaries were ever so slowly going up from an already not so good level, but attained nowhere near the type of incomes that are being advertised. Not even in the expat market; I was an expat for a short time and, why would Australians, Brits, Swiss, French, and so on, let alone Canadians, go expat if salaries were so high at home? Then 9/11 happened and you guessed it, everything took a nosedive, expat market included. And that was IF you could find a job. My particular canadian heavy jet operator closed up, making headline news, stuck around home for family related reasons, but was well aware of pay levels at the big name expat airlines that everyone tended to flock to. Good pay, sort of, but nowhere near fantastic. One well known Asian operator who had the reputation of paying the big bucks were now paying pretty average to low bucks. You know who I am referring to.
However, there are admittedly some choice jobs out there; I'm thinking about my good friend who works for American that does in fact make 300K as a 737 Captain, bear in mind though that it is after numerous decades and at the top of the pay scale, plus the pay raises are a recent event. Did not happen overnight.
If you make 300K anywhere in Canada, you are of a very select group, very very few people make that. Outside of aviation cockpits, even fewer come near to those types of incomes.
Nice to see that things are on a huge upswing though, wish I was born later LOL!
I guess that I am of the old group where half of my flying days were pre 9/11 and half were post 9/11. Pre 9/11 salaries were ever so slowly going up from an already not so good level, but attained nowhere near the type of incomes that are being advertised. Not even in the expat market; I was an expat for a short time and, why would Australians, Brits, Swiss, French, and so on, let alone Canadians, go expat if salaries were so high at home? Then 9/11 happened and you guessed it, everything took a nosedive, expat market included. And that was IF you could find a job. My particular canadian heavy jet operator closed up, making headline news, stuck around home for family related reasons, but was well aware of pay levels at the big name expat airlines that everyone tended to flock to. Good pay, sort of, but nowhere near fantastic. One well known Asian operator who had the reputation of paying the big bucks were now paying pretty average to low bucks. You know who I am referring to.
However, there are admittedly some choice jobs out there; I'm thinking about my good friend who works for American that does in fact make 300K as a 737 Captain, bear in mind though that it is after numerous decades and at the top of the pay scale, plus the pay raises are a recent event. Did not happen overnight.
If you make 300K anywhere in Canada, you are of a very select group, very very few people make that. Outside of aviation cockpits, even fewer come near to those types of incomes.
Nice to see that things are on a huge upswing though, wish I was born later LOL!