Brits working as ATPLS in Canada
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Brits working as ATPLS in Canada
hi folks,
I'm a new member in PPRune.
Just a quick question that I'm arguing over down the Pub.
I know that Canada is a destination for retiring British expats but I've been told there are numerous Brits working for Air Canada and other Airlines.
Is this true- how many pilots do Air Canada employ and can anyone have a guess at a percentage of Brits. I'm sure there's more than a few.
Thanks in advance
BM
I'm a new member in PPRune.
Just a quick question that I'm arguing over down the Pub.
I know that Canada is a destination for retiring British expats but I've been told there are numerous Brits working for Air Canada and other Airlines.
Is this true- how many pilots do Air Canada employ and can anyone have a guess at a percentage of Brits. I'm sure there's more than a few.
Thanks in advance
BM
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Are you saying that when the Brit pilots retire that they come and fly for AC.....I don't think so!......Brits, can apply at AC, only if they are landed immigrants....as for the other airlines in Canada the are probably flying as Temporary Foreign Workers.
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Don't know the exact number of pilots, but Air Canada has 27,000 employees and a fleet size of 169 mainline aircraft.
WestJet has approximately 8,700 employees and a fleet size of around 144 aircraft (including Encore).
Air Transat has 26 aircraft and 2,000 employees.
WestJet has approximately 8,700 employees and a fleet size of around 144 aircraft (including Encore).
Air Transat has 26 aircraft and 2,000 employees.
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"IF" this is true it is a small SMALL number.
.
Second this statement, it is the same for ATC now, so can't see why it wouldn't be the case at Air Canada. I have heard no Brit pilots on the frequency for AC in a LONG time.
There would be no reason to hire expats as Air Canada can hire local.
Brits, can apply at AC, only if they are landed immigrants
Second this statement, it is the same for ATC now, so can't see why it wouldn't be the case at Air Canada. I have heard no Brit pilots on the frequency for AC in a LONG time.
There would be no reason to hire expats as Air Canada can hire local.
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More likely retiring in Canada but not flying. Their pension would go a LOT further in terms of purchasing an acrerage, getting a few horses etc. Convert the GBP to CAD and figures it out.
I saw 30 acres for sale recently, $70,000 so about $35,000 GBP. Not sure you have that opportunity in the UK?
I saw 30 acres for sale recently, $70,000 so about $35,000 GBP. Not sure you have that opportunity in the UK?
Last edited by bigoil; 26th Nov 2015 at 13:37.
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@bigoil
One problem is the UK has a strange rule freezing pensions for UK citizens living in Canada. So over time one would potentially lose a lot of money due to inflation. Imagine living in 2030 on a fixed income with a pension not adjusted since 2015.
So Canada actually isn't the ideal destination for British expats, pilots or otherwise, thinking of staying and eventually retiring here -- unless there are other factors such as family ties, etc.
One problem is the UK has a strange rule freezing pensions for UK citizens living in Canada. So over time one would potentially lose a lot of money due to inflation. Imagine living in 2030 on a fixed income with a pension not adjusted since 2015.
So Canada actually isn't the ideal destination for British expats, pilots or otherwise, thinking of staying and eventually retiring here -- unless there are other factors such as family ties, etc.
That may be the case with the state pension, but for most Brits in a position of thinking of retiring to Canada it would probably play a smallish part in their overall finances. For anyone lucky enough to have a final salary based pension or a house in the southeast of England then there are plenty of options where your cash will probably go further, Vancouver Island particularly Sanitch and Victoria seem very popular.
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Yes, but cost of living adjustments are compounded, so for a UK pilot retiring in Canada the difference in state pension benefits over time will easily be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, especially now that we are living longer. And of course that amount doubles for married couples.
So although state pension may be just a part of a larger overall, losing that amount of money is still a significant penalty for simply retiring in Canada vs. retiring in many other countries (including the U.S.) where the freeze does not apply.
So although state pension may be just a part of a larger overall, losing that amount of money is still a significant penalty for simply retiring in Canada vs. retiring in many other countries (including the U.S.) where the freeze does not apply.
UK max state pension according to UK Gov site is 120 pounds a week so 6000 a year. Inflation is the key factor but currently less than 5 %. For a 65 year old couple to lose hundreds of thousands they would have to live a very long time and inflation would have to skyrocket! On current numbers the difference for pensioners living to 90 is much less than you suggest. I disagree with the statement that it will easily be hundreds of thousands.
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Using your numbers:
Starting at 6,000 GBP at 5% inflation adjustment, over 20 years the difference would be 78,395 GBP ($157,790 CAD) per person at current exchange rates, double that for couples ($315,580 CAD).
Even assuming a more modest 3% inflation, the difference is still > $ six figures CAD for the couple.
Starting at 6,000 GBP at 5% inflation adjustment, over 20 years the difference would be 78,395 GBP ($157,790 CAD) per person at current exchange rates, double that for couples ($315,580 CAD).
Even assuming a more modest 3% inflation, the difference is still > $ six figures CAD for the couple.
Fair point and at first sight quite convincing! but these figures are based on maximum scenarios. According to easily accessible information average life expectancy is less than 81 years and inflation over 25 years 2.7 % (currently close to zero). If I use your preference for rounding up and we run the numbers based on the max possible 6000 pounds then for a couple we get to a figure I agree of a little over 100,000 canadian dollars, not hundreds of thousands.
Most people will not qualify for the maximum state pension (particularly if they were in an opted out company scheme), nor will everyone be married nor indeed will both partners live beyond average life expectancy. Using net present value the difference is of course even less significant in real terms. Your point that people might be a bit worse off in Canada than some other places is worth considering. But it is certainly not as big a factor as you make it sound.
Most people will not qualify for the maximum state pension (particularly if they were in an opted out company scheme), nor will everyone be married nor indeed will both partners live beyond average life expectancy. Using net present value the difference is of course even less significant in real terms. Your point that people might be a bit worse off in Canada than some other places is worth considering. But it is certainly not as big a factor as you make it sound.
Last edited by lederhosen; 1st Dec 2015 at 12:44.
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It doesn't matter if the inflation rate is zero, because UK state pensions are currently guaranteed a minimum of 2.5% increase per year. (So called "triple lock": you're guaranteed the highest of 2.5%, inflation, or earnings growth).
In fact due to earnings growth the projected adjustment for next year will be 2.9% even though the UK is facing negative inflation.
Also, other than expats who left early, almost all UK retiring pilots should qualify for the 6,000 GBP as that is only the basic pension. The UK currently has a two-tier pension system.
If you opt out under a company pension, you are opting out from the "Additional State Pension" -- under various schemes -- which is above and beyond the basic pension.
So most who work in the UK until they retire should in fact receive more than the basic 6,000 GBP as they'll have at least some amount of Additional State Pension for the years they did not contracted out.
(At least until next year, when the UK system will be revamped).
The blessing for UK pilots retired in Canada recently has been the favorable exchange rate due to the weak Canadian dollars. However this followed many years where the GBP was declining vs. CAD.
In fact due to earnings growth the projected adjustment for next year will be 2.9% even though the UK is facing negative inflation.
Also, other than expats who left early, almost all UK retiring pilots should qualify for the 6,000 GBP as that is only the basic pension. The UK currently has a two-tier pension system.
If you opt out under a company pension, you are opting out from the "Additional State Pension" -- under various schemes -- which is above and beyond the basic pension.
So most who work in the UK until they retire should in fact receive more than the basic 6,000 GBP as they'll have at least some amount of Additional State Pension for the years they did not contracted out.
(At least until next year, when the UK system will be revamped).
The blessing for UK pilots retired in Canada recently has been the favorable exchange rate due to the weak Canadian dollars. However this followed many years where the GBP was declining vs. CAD.
OK, lets just agree to differ. From my perspective as a captain getting close to retirement it does not (perhaps fortunately) play much of a role in my decision making.
On a lighter note I gather the UK had some interesting statistics about life expectancy when people retired to far off places. For whatever reason there was a dramatic difference in how long pensions were claimed. Whether people really lived longer or whatever, it might explain some of the thinking behind not giving increases.
On a lighter note I gather the UK had some interesting statistics about life expectancy when people retired to far off places. For whatever reason there was a dramatic difference in how long pensions were claimed. Whether people really lived longer or whatever, it might explain some of the thinking behind not giving increases.
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Soon free movement between UK, Canada, Australia & NZ
This free movement bill will be passed in next 12-18 months:
The Commonwealth Freedom of Movement Organisation
The Commonwealth Freedom of Movement Organisation
