Liberal Party wins, Bombardier wins
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Willie
"Junior gave $2.6 billion to underdeveloped nations to fight global warming and no one in this country balked."
I certainly balked but we traded a strong leader for a buffoon with nice hair who gives out Billions to foreign nations and Quebec but won't help the province which has funded most of Canada for the past decade and longer.
"Junior gave $2.6 billion to underdeveloped nations to fight global warming and no one in this country balked."
I certainly balked but we traded a strong leader for a buffoon with nice hair who gives out Billions to foreign nations and Quebec but won't help the province which has funded most of Canada for the past decade and longer.
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I couldn't agree with you more.
I live in Quebec.
Every day I watch train after train pulling dozens of oil tankers through this province. They seem endless. Lake Megantic showed these political clowns nothing.
I would vote FOR a pipeline but this is Canadian democracy and I don't have a say or a vote on the subject.
I have no doubt the pipeline would make for a safer option than presently exists.
I have no doubt as well, it would be beneficial to our western fellow Canadians, not to mention the positive effect it would likely have on our economy.
Junior just isn't qualified to be PM. Period!
Willie
I live in Quebec.
Every day I watch train after train pulling dozens of oil tankers through this province. They seem endless. Lake Megantic showed these political clowns nothing.
I would vote FOR a pipeline but this is Canadian democracy and I don't have a say or a vote on the subject.
I have no doubt the pipeline would make for a safer option than presently exists.
I have no doubt as well, it would be beneficial to our western fellow Canadians, not to mention the positive effect it would likely have on our economy.
Junior just isn't qualified to be PM. Period!
Willie
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The hypocritical government of the Socialist Republic of New France has no problem with oil exploration on the hitherto pristine Anticosti Island:
Quebec government invests heavily in oil exploration on Anticosti Island | CTV Montreal News
Quebec has a big problem with accepting they are a "HAVE NOT PROVINCE" and are in need of, and addicted to, huge transfer payments from other provinces, and have been for decades..
I love Quebec, by the way. It is pretty.. Laurentian Mountains and pencil crayons, maple syrup, the Habs, Montreal smoked meat and all that..
Quebec government invests heavily in oil exploration on Anticosti Island | CTV Montreal News
Quebec has a big problem with accepting they are a "HAVE NOT PROVINCE" and are in need of, and addicted to, huge transfer payments from other provinces, and have been for decades..
I love Quebec, by the way. It is pretty.. Laurentian Mountains and pencil crayons, maple syrup, the Habs, Montreal smoked meat and all that..
@ evansb...
The hypocritical government of the Socialist Republic of New France has no problem with oil exploration on the hitherto pristine Anticosti Island:
Also calling that island "pristine" is a bit of a stretch IMO... I have been there many times and it is basically a rock with some forest with lots of deers, too many perhaps. You can also go fishing but that is very restricted.
I'd say we should exploit it in a safe and proper manner and get the oil out if it is worth it.
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Because Ottawa is delaying or put to rest the $1 billion support, Bombardier is forced to look in outsourcing jobs in India, in order to reduce engineering and certification costs.
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Delta or bust:
Delta Said to Near Jet Order as Planemakers Scrap for Deal - Bloomberg
The way this has been shaping up, many aspects of Delta's potential deal could be ideal for CS300. This is a rare opportunity, in the sense that another deal like this from a major North American carrier might not be available again to Bombardier for years -- unlike for Boeing / Airbus / Embraer which can offer larger and smaller planes.
In a way that $1 Billion from Ottawa might really subsidize Delta instead of Bombardier. Worlds of pain if they lose this one.
Delta Said to Near Jet Order as Planemakers Scrap for Deal - Bloomberg
The way this has been shaping up, many aspects of Delta's potential deal could be ideal for CS300. This is a rare opportunity, in the sense that another deal like this from a major North American carrier might not be available again to Bombardier for years -- unlike for Boeing / Airbus / Embraer which can offer larger and smaller planes.
In a way that $1 Billion from Ottawa might really subsidize Delta instead of Bombardier. Worlds of pain if they lose this one.
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Delta announcement as early as tomorrow. "Sources close to Bombardier" seem confident.
In other news, Bombardier's annual shareholder meeting now set for April 29th. Additional Federal funding and stock reverse-split are sure to be among the big topics.
In other news, Bombardier's annual shareholder meeting now set for April 29th. Additional Federal funding and stock reverse-split are sure to be among the big topics.
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Good luck to Bombardier. Hopefully, Delta will negotiate the price of a sizeable fleet of CS300s. This aeroplane would be a great fit for them. In light of the Flydubai prang in Russia, it looks like the NG could be in for a downturn in sales if the Russian investigators preliminary findings prove accurate. Time for Boeing to move on to a 'clean sheet' replacement and catch up to the technology found in the rest of the industry.
Willie
Willie
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So.
Bombardier just turned down Federal government aid.
How serious could a Delta purchase be?
I'd say "the family" will likely remain on the Board for now, rather than BBD having to accept government appointees in their place.
Can't wait for that shareholder meeting and any announcements following it.
This is getting interesting.
Willie
Bombardier just turned down Federal government aid.
How serious could a Delta purchase be?
I'd say "the family" will likely remain on the Board for now, rather than BBD having to accept government appointees in their place.
Can't wait for that shareholder meeting and any announcements following it.
This is getting interesting.
Willie
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Delta is now saying they wont make a decision until May.
This deal will come down between Bombardier and Embraer.
On paper, given's Delta's unique requirements, this heavily favors Bombardier. But: 1) for whatever reason, Bombardier hasn't been able to close this deal; 2) once again the CSeries is competing in price against cheaper regional jets.
It doesn't even matter if Delta is stringing Embraer along only to get a better price from Bombardier. The CSeries entire financial model was based on not being priced in the same category as regional jets.
Bombardier should do whatever it takes win this contract. But since they are competing against the low-side of the market, that realistically means selling at an upfront loss.
I've said it before, failure here will hurt Bombardier's chances in this market for years.
I do however think that Delta is also negotiating with Embraer in good faith, not just stringing them along. And Embraer is also very hungry to win this deal. They are looking to steal one from Bombardier and Delta is willing to hear them out.
Yet at the end of the day, this is really a "must win" for Bombardier but not for Embraer. Embraer can afford to walk away from the deal, then turn around and court Delta Connection partners business. Bombardier has no such options for the CSeries. That may be the difference at the end.
This deal will come down between Bombardier and Embraer.
On paper, given's Delta's unique requirements, this heavily favors Bombardier. But: 1) for whatever reason, Bombardier hasn't been able to close this deal; 2) once again the CSeries is competing in price against cheaper regional jets.
It doesn't even matter if Delta is stringing Embraer along only to get a better price from Bombardier. The CSeries entire financial model was based on not being priced in the same category as regional jets.
Bombardier should do whatever it takes win this contract. But since they are competing against the low-side of the market, that realistically means selling at an upfront loss.
I've said it before, failure here will hurt Bombardier's chances in this market for years.
I do however think that Delta is also negotiating with Embraer in good faith, not just stringing them along. And Embraer is also very hungry to win this deal. They are looking to steal one from Bombardier and Delta is willing to hear them out.
Yet at the end of the day, this is really a "must win" for Bombardier but not for Embraer. Embraer can afford to walk away from the deal, then turn around and court Delta Connection partners business. Bombardier has no such options for the CSeries. That may be the difference at the end.
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Delta have said all along there will be no announcement until their next shareholder/board meeting which I thought was the end of April. Close enough to May. Bombardier, apparently, are saying nothing other than they are close to a deal.
My guess is, the suggested 125 aircraft order will be shared between both BBD and Embraer.
I suspect BBD are well aware they need to discount the aircraft more than previous management to secure any order from not only DL, but any other customer they might have lined up. BBD aren't new to the sales game so credit where credit is due. But, there must be a limit to any discount BBD is prepared to give and I have no doubt it will be Delta's call whether or not that discount is acceptable. I also suspect a discount similar to the one Air Canada received must be close enough to what Delta has been offered and would likely accept.
Delta are interested in the CS300 which is not a regional jet. It's also a great B717 replacement. It's also a better aircraft for Delta pilots to transition to the B787 from. I seriously doubt those naive Canadian salesmen are thinking regional jet prices when dealing with DL's fleet planners.
If a deal gets made I'm pretty sure its going to be at a price both parties can live with.
Willie
My guess is, the suggested 125 aircraft order will be shared between both BBD and Embraer.
I suspect BBD are well aware they need to discount the aircraft more than previous management to secure any order from not only DL, but any other customer they might have lined up. BBD aren't new to the sales game so credit where credit is due. But, there must be a limit to any discount BBD is prepared to give and I have no doubt it will be Delta's call whether or not that discount is acceptable. I also suspect a discount similar to the one Air Canada received must be close enough to what Delta has been offered and would likely accept.
Delta are interested in the CS300 which is not a regional jet. It's also a great B717 replacement. It's also a better aircraft for Delta pilots to transition to the B787 from. I seriously doubt those naive Canadian salesmen are thinking regional jet prices when dealing with DL's fleet planners.
If a deal gets made I'm pretty sure its going to be at a price both parties can live with.
Willie
Last edited by Willie Everlearn; 19th Apr 2016 at 01:43.
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Delta have said all along there will be no announcement until their next shareholder/board meeting which I thought was the end of April. Close enough to May.
Delta's next scheduled board meeting wont be until June (around their AGM). So they will either hold a special board meeting in May, or wait until the June.
Bombardier, apparently, are saying nothing other than they are close to a deal.
With Air Canada remember there were "side deals" such as Quebec "coincidentally" dropping their maintenance facility lawsuit. With Delta, BBD will have to offer a straight deal at a steeper discount, unless Quebec is willing to subsidize Delta's purchase with special financing or through some other vehicle.
I seriously doubt those naive Canadian salesmen are thinking regional jet prices when dealing with DL's fleet planners.
But I'm actually surprised Boeing & Airbus appear to be out of the deal. And I can't see E195s fulfilling most of Delta's requirements. So BBD is actually in a good position to win a deal, if they can meet the price point.
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Bombardier's shareholders meet April 29th.
Delta's shareholders meet June 10th.
Farnborough starts July 11th.
...mirror, mirror, on the wall...
The plot thickens.
Willie
Delta's shareholders meet June 10th.
Farnborough starts July 11th.
...mirror, mirror, on the wall...
The plot thickens.
Willie
Last edited by Willie Everlearn; 20th Apr 2016 at 20:08.
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A valid scenario?
Republic has commitments to Delta it can't fulfill & has gone in to bankruptcy (even while making $$$).
Delta has a large fleet of single aisle mainliners that are rapidly coming to the end of their useful life - if not already well past it.
Republic has a large CSeries order it may not be able to use.
Delta can not get the early line positions it needs from either Boeing or Airbus.
Republic offers Delta its early line positions (and at probably lower prices).
Delta takes over Republic's CSeries line positions and conveniently forgives the commitments.
Result: a three way win: Republic gets out from under Delta, Delta gets the jets it needs when it needs them, BA doesn't lose a major order and bags a US Major as a customer to boot.
Republic has commitments to Delta it can't fulfill & has gone in to bankruptcy (even while making $$$).
Delta has a large fleet of single aisle mainliners that are rapidly coming to the end of their useful life - if not already well past it.
Republic has a large CSeries order it may not be able to use.
Delta can not get the early line positions it needs from either Boeing or Airbus.
Republic offers Delta its early line positions (and at probably lower prices).
Delta takes over Republic's CSeries line positions and conveniently forgives the commitments.
Result: a three way win: Republic gets out from under Delta, Delta gets the jets it needs when it needs them, BA doesn't lose a major order and bags a US Major as a customer to boot.
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ICT SLB
You present a very plausible scenario, if none of Republic's C series slots haven't already been spoken for should Republic decide to sell them. I would tend to think Bombardier, at this point, is hedging a few bets. This could be one of them.
Willie
You present a very plausible scenario, if none of Republic's C series slots haven't already been spoken for should Republic decide to sell them. I would tend to think Bombardier, at this point, is hedging a few bets. This could be one of them.
Willie
ICT:
I think you're spot on. The CS100 is the perfect replacement for the B717 while the CS300 + two or three rows is the perfect replacement for the MD80.
Nobody understands the value of the five-across configuration better than Delta - this is the wedge segment that BBD has been aiming at all these years - a new opportunity between the E-Jets and the six-across B737Max and A320NEO!
I think you're spot on. The CS100 is the perfect replacement for the B717 while the CS300 + two or three rows is the perfect replacement for the MD80.
Nobody understands the value of the five-across configuration better than Delta - this is the wedge segment that BBD has been aiming at all these years - a new opportunity between the E-Jets and the six-across B737Max and A320NEO!
Last edited by twochai; 22nd Apr 2016 at 20:51.
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A valid scenario?
But they are, so I don't think their CSeries obligations matter too much for them now. Regardless of any Delta deal, Republic can likely convince the court to null any remaining terms with Bombardier with little additional consequence, especially given CS300's missed deadlines. And all of their other contracts are being streamlined through the court process anyway.
From Delta's perspective, they just want the best deal possible.
From Bombardier's perspective, they have competing priorities. On one hand, from a PR angle they don't want to announce losing Republic's order (40 firm + 40 options) until they absolutely have to. After all, that is a loss in the same magnitude as the Air Canada deal.
On the other hand, Republic presumably held some early delivery slots, and as mentioned Bombardier would be very keen to be able to offer them to an airline like Delta.