PPRuNe Forums


Canada The great white north. A BIG country with few people and LOTS of aviation.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 15th Nov 2015, 16:20   #21 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,288
The city of Toronto and the Province of Ontario are totally out of touch with the mess they are allowing to take place, When CYKZ is shut down {as it will be, thanks to lack of positive action by both the city and province} both of whoom have allowed "inherited wealth" to trump the needs of the comunity at large, {and by the way, the express wishes of the founder of the airport} Toronto will have only CYTZ and CYYZ to recieve medical emergency flights, the chaos when heavy aircraft are forced to hold as MU 2's and King Airs are forced to CYYZ in poor weather is going to be interesting to watch, the costs to our society, both monetry and non tangible will be huge, not to mention the potential loss of life and other costs if Medivacs are forced to land at CYOO and then use ground transport to move cases to downtown medical facilities, but who in Toronto council cares or even has a bloody clue about the North or the rest of Canada? None I think. Toronto is already the worst served major city in North America when it comes to GA airports, I know of one corporation moving South with 800 well paid jobs due to this situation {its a headquarters for a large multi national company} I suspect this is the start of an exodos of companies who need their aircraft to conduct their buisines, {mine included by the way} The damage done by such policies, and the late unlamented Minister of Transport, along with Transport Canadas inaction on advising the two Goverments on sound airport policies will hurt a lot more companies than just Bombardier!
clunckdriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th Nov 2015, 16:25   #22 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: On the dark side of the moon
Posts: 860
Who said Toronto Island is closing down?
J.O. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th Nov 2015, 16:48   #23 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,288
Nobody did.
clunckdriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th Nov 2015, 04:26   #24 (permalink)
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Southern Alberta
Age: 62
Posts: 5,727
Yes indeed clunkdriver, but for nostalgia's sake, let us call upon Sherman to set the "Way-Back Machine"..

"From a peak of over 200,000 annual flights in the 1960s, the island airport went into decline even as several regional airlines operated at the airport from the 1970s onwards. The annual operating deficit forced its operator, the Toronto Harbour Commission (THC) to sell land to pay the ongoing deficit and by the 1990s, the airport was again facing questions about its continued existence."

Last edited by evansb; 17th Nov 2015 at 23:36.
evansb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Dec 2015, 07:25   #25 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,285
Push for jets at Toronto island airport officially dead
Quote:
Porter Airlines’ push to bring jet service to an expanded Toronto island airport is officially dead.

PortsToronto, the federal port authority, said in a statement it has halted work on an environmental assessment and two studies requested by city council in 2014.

“PortsToronto will complete the technical work currently underway, but will not proceed with further public engagement-related activities pertaining to the Porter Proposal to introduce jets,” said chief executive Geoffrey Wilson in a statement.
More from: Push for jets at Toronto island airport officially dead | Toronto Star

(Likely means any "funding" from Ottawa will compensate for this loss).
peekay4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Dec 2015, 10:26   #26 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Escaped the sandpit 53 32′ 9.19″ N, 9 50′ 13.29″ E
Posts: 553
So that means 30 aircraft less to produce for Bombardier. Any local orders for the C-series remaining ?
ExDubai is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Dec 2015, 13:02   #27 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Global
Posts: 152
Recently spoke with a colleague who works at Bomb., they actually still believe once the aircraft is operational their sales will go up especially in Asia. I guess the billion dollar free pass is doing them well. What a sad business model, even AC didn't even bother!
striker26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Dec 2015, 13:03   #28 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Global
Posts: 152
Porter still has plans to buy the C-Series they will find a way to fly to farther destinations. Im sure they're hoping Pickering airport is still a go and they will probably get a few slots at Pearson.
striker26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Dec 2015, 16:24   #29 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,285
1. The Liberals and the NDP are on the record opposing the Pickering airport project. Even assuming the Conservatives somehow wins back a majority in the next election cycle, Pickering won't be ready until 2035. So Pickering a moot point as far as Porter and Bombardier are concerned.

2. The chances of Porter operating the CSeries out of Pearson is slim to none. Pearson is very expensive and Porter will have to compete directly with Air Canada and Westjet. Plus even with the Union Express train they have no way to efficiently provide connections between YTZ and Pearson.

3. Porter could try to base the CSeries in other cities, such as Hamilton, or maybe even Montreal. But the business case for either option would be very shaky.

4. There is a reason Porter's CSeries LOI was converted into a conditional order. They can now just walk away from the deal, and they probably will.
peekay4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th Dec 2015, 13:01   #30 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Global
Posts: 152
Peekay you have some good points but from what ive seen, Porter will have to pursue other options unless they want to stay a regional competitor. But yes, if what you say does come true, Im sure with time they will definitely cancel all orders as the downtown airport idea is toast.

Its kinda sad because whenever i go dt or talk to friends who live in the condos near the dt airport, they say they cant even hear the planes, nor can i. i think the rejection was due to the sights of planes for tourism and maybe the sound level of takeoff and reverse thrusts.

Like you said Pearson is extremely expensive and pretty much at capacity, but i think the federal government shouldn't have rejected the proposal. "Toronto" Pearson airport is more like "Mississauga" Pearson airport......

Just saying, if Bombardier were really desperate, maybe they'll sell some space at Downsview!!!
striker26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th Dec 2015, 15:54   #31 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Canadian Shield
Posts: 444
Quote:
"Toronto" Pearson airport is more like "Mississauga" Pearson airport......


Not quite in Ryanair's Charleroi = "Brussels South" 70-km away category, but getting there...
er340790 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th Dec 2015, 12:39   #32 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: On the dark side of the moon
Posts: 860
Downsview would be a disaster for a scheduled operation, particularly in IFR weather conditions. Anyone trying to depart or arrive would be beholden to finding a hole in the YYZ traffic, which is difficult to do at peak times.
J.O. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th Dec 2015, 13:16   #33 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Global
Posts: 152
Issue in Toronto has always been over capacity of the infrastructure. Way too many ppl that the city cant support. When they designed this city, they built a damn highway across the harbour front and now they're paying for it. Pearson has reach capacity and now that they dont want noise pollution downtown, they'll have to compensate some how. I don't think Downsview will ever happen for any airline to operate scheduled flights, but we honestly need a plan B. For people living out east and even in the golden horseshoe it can take up to 2 hours in rush hour traffic just to get to an airport that is not even considered "Toronto". Add check in times and there you have it, an hour flight to New York that should take 3-4 hrs total becomes a flight to Hong Kong. I dont support Bombardier's vision and timing of their products but its sad to see such slow progression, for a city that has the most money and people.
striker26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th Dec 2015, 16:44   #34 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: YYZ via the UK
Age: 42
Posts: 323
Quote:
Downsview would be a disaster for a scheduled operation, particularly in IFR weather conditions. Anyone trying to depart or arrive would be beholden to finding a hole in the YYZ traffic, which is difficult to do at peak times.
Thankyou.....I always shudder from an ATC perspective when I read people suggesting Downsview as somehow being an alternate to City centre or Buttonville. Easy in VFR.....IFR...good luck in peak time. On the 06s it is a little easier as you just cancel departures....on the 24s...making a gap in arrivals....not so easy!

Quote:
Pearson has reached capacity
In my opinion YYZ is no where CLOSE to capacity. How can an airport that has the land space Pearson does, the runway capacity, the terminal space(including the infield if reopened) be considered at capacity? 435000 movements a year...38 million odd passengers (I think)...while impressive is nothing compared to busier airports in the world.
I am back in the UK right now and flew through Heathrow...they cram 470000 odd movements a year plus almost double the passengers onto two runways with less space, and until recently a rather archaic terminal system. They are busting at the seams right now for sure....YYZ is nowhere close to that.

Plan B is to utilise Pearson more efficiently.
Married a Canadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th Dec 2015, 02:40   #35 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 54
Quote:
Plan B is to utilise Pearson more efficiently.
But still, the city center airport is much more convenient for downtown residents, luxury class, emergencies, businesses and financial hub. Actually, with this vision in mind CSseries was born:
https://youtu.be/3HtxFg1hSC8
_Phoenix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th Dec 2015, 09:30   #36 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: YYZ via the UK
Age: 42
Posts: 323
Quote:
But still, the city center airport is much more convenient for downtown residents, luxury class, emergencies, businesses and financial hub. Actually, with this vision in mind CSseries was born
I fully agree. I believe you can have a thriving city centre airport AND use YYZ more efficiently.
I despair of Toronto's approach to Transit infrastructure (at all levels) and I despair of the politics involved with things like the C series and expansion at City centre.
Married a Canadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th Dec 2015, 13:42   #37 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Global
Posts: 152
They proposed Pickering Intl because, from what i remember in the news articles, that Pearson is going to be at capacity in the future (CAPACITY LOL...funny right? 5 main runways really backlogged right now!). The point being, the government and the GTAA limit economic potential. Take a look at Heathrow and JFK, how many people can say they've connected there before? Pearson - well you'd have to be only connecting within Canada to. The airlines here are only allowed to basically transport Canadians lol. Just look at examples of many airlines that are limited. I remember Emirates, Qatar, British Airways and Cathay wanted to add flights but were denied. The reason? - Protect Canadian interests when honestly great options for the consumer would allow us to not connect in JFK, DCA or ORD when going abroad .

The damn fees are so high, you cant even get a flight to Ottawa without paying 250+ bucks for a 45 minute flight. If the government was smart they'd invest to increase infrastructure at the airport, screw AC's int'l shield and allow for free market. If you're flying Q400's out of the island, at least expand the airport to increase slots for regionals., make space at the airport where you can land an a380! Instead of investing in the proper strategy they'd rather do it the old fashioned way and charge ridiculous airport fees, when its too late they'll limit slots, there's your 250 return ticket to Ottawa ......

Oh did i mention they spent billions on the Union-Pearson express? Costs 22.50 for a 20 minute ride, add your baggage fees and your airport improvement tax and..... What the point? Just another way for ppl downtown to get to Pearson 30km away, should be the other way around!

Last edited by striker26; 17th Dec 2015 at 14:04.
striker26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th Dec 2015, 16:24   #38 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 54
Thumbs up CS100 CERTIFIED!

Bombardier receives CSeries certification from Transport Canada - Business - CBC News
Congratulations to all involved in this Canadian achievement!
_Phoenix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th Dec 2015, 17:37   #39 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Global
Posts: 152
Certification Date - December 18th, 2015. After a few engine failures, bottom of the barrel orders, and years late
striker26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th Dec 2015, 22:04   #40 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: CYUL
Posts: 675
Finally good news for the folks at Bombardier... Congrats to all involved!
Jet Jockey A4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 11:00.


1996-2012 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1