Three Canadian airlines change cockpit policy after Germanwings crash
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Three Canadian airlines change cockpit policy after Germanwings crash
Good Afternoon All:
This just came up on the Globe and Mail and as always there will be discussion on this one!
Three Canadian airlines change cockpit policy after Germanwings crash - The Globe and Mail
GREG KEENAN
TORONTO — The Globe and Mail
Published Thursday, Mar. 26 2015, 1:48 PM EDT
Last updated Thursday, Mar. 26 2015, 3:39 PM EDT
Three Canadian airlines changed their policies Thursday to require that there are two people in the cockpits of their planes at all times during flights.
The moves come in the wake of the Germanwings crash in France earlier this week.
Air Canada, WestJet Airlines Ltd. and Air Transat announced their new policies after cockpit voice recordings in the Germanwings crash showed the pilot was locked out of the cockpit as it began a descent that led to the crash.
Federal Transport Minister Lisa Raitt added that government rules will be changed to make that a requirement on commercial flights.
Air Canada pilots are subject to medical exams every year, which increases to twice a year once they reach age 60, the airline said in a statement.
This just came up on the Globe and Mail and as always there will be discussion on this one!
Three Canadian airlines change cockpit policy after Germanwings crash - The Globe and Mail
GREG KEENAN
TORONTO — The Globe and Mail
Published Thursday, Mar. 26 2015, 1:48 PM EDT
Last updated Thursday, Mar. 26 2015, 3:39 PM EDT
Three Canadian airlines changed their policies Thursday to require that there are two people in the cockpits of their planes at all times during flights.
The moves come in the wake of the Germanwings crash in France earlier this week.
Air Canada, WestJet Airlines Ltd. and Air Transat announced their new policies after cockpit voice recordings in the Germanwings crash showed the pilot was locked out of the cockpit as it began a descent that led to the crash.
Federal Transport Minister Lisa Raitt added that government rules will be changed to make that a requirement on commercial flights.
Air Canada pilots are subject to medical exams every year, which increases to twice a year once they reach age 60, the airline said in a statement.
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Knee jerk reaction by a transport minister who is out of touch with reality. Having an F/A in the cockpit while one pilot leaves the F/D will do nothing to increase safety. As a side note it will now leave hundreds of cabins unattended every day when the pilot of a 50 seat aircraft uses the lav. (1-50 rule)
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Yep, I don't think a 90 lb F/A is going to have much success against a lunatic hell bent on creating havoc.....
Rings back to the '3 man for safety' issues when the F/E was first put out to pasture.....
3 pilots is about the only way to help the issue....'someone' would have to bear the cost for this of course and the public generally prefers their cheap tickets!!
imho
j
Rings back to the '3 man for safety' issues when the F/E was first put out to pasture.....
3 pilots is about the only way to help the issue....'someone' would have to bear the cost for this of course and the public generally prefers their cheap tickets!!
imho
j
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3 man Deck?
While I have to think that, at least in principle, your wish for a third pilot in the deck would work, it has a few big flaws. Just what else would that pilot do? Who is going to pay the already seriously pressured wages for an extra body on every flight? Are the next gen aircraft going to have a panel for the 3rd body to operate? It's whistling past the graveyard, or Tombstone policy, and unrealistic. I see calls for similar on other sites as well. If, in fact, the FO was suffering from a mental illness, it's time to open the dialogue about recognizing that our industry is no different than any other, and start working to recognize and treat this sad fact before we have something similar. Too many hours on duty, not enough rest, not enough money, not enough not enough not enough…the symptoms are clear. Don't even get me started about P2F and the strain that puts on young pilots. It's seriously time to talk about depression and mental illness in our industry. (I know something about it, as I have witnessed what it can do to someone close.)
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New Requirements
As a side note it will now leave hundreds of cabins unattended every day when the pilot of a 50 seat aircraft uses the lav. (1-50 rule)
Having a cabin crew or extra crewman sitting on the seat while an operating pilot is out of the flight deck only precludes the possibility of someone 'unwanted',wanting to gain access or will lessen the risk of an operating crew-member being locked out of the flight compartment as such was the case in the GermanWings accident.
For those who hate this new policy, just how do you expect passengers would be reacting now, in this new reality, when they saw one of us coming out of the flight deck and leaving our partner locked in there on their own? They are going to be thinking the worst, it's just human nature, and our airlines (and the Minister's office) would be inundated with complaints.
Yes this new rule is inconvenient, no one is denying that, but as Left Coaster has so eloquently put it, we need to change the conversation. Pilots are human too and that means among us can be people who are quietly fighting a difficult battle. I know of at least one airline pilot in this country who took their own life in the past year. It was tragic for his family but fortunately for all of us he didn't choose to do the deed at work, where he could have done exactly the same thing as was done this week in France.
Yes this new rule is inconvenient, no one is denying that, but as Left Coaster has so eloquently put it, we need to change the conversation. Pilots are human too and that means among us can be people who are quietly fighting a difficult battle. I know of at least one airline pilot in this country who took their own life in the past year. It was tragic for his family but fortunately for all of us he didn't choose to do the deed at work, where he could have done exactly the same thing as was done this week in France.
Move the flight deck door rearwards such that a pilot can get to the restroom and not have to leave the flight deck. Who cares about two seats that can't generate revenue that are replaced by a new lav for the pax. The airlines have never taken security seriously since 911. If they had El Al would be the example.
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Was re-reading the LHR crash of Papa India (Trident) recently.
Not sure of their exact policy, but BEA had a practice of low-time or zero-hours on-type pilots acting as 2nd Officers with a supervising 1st Officer in the jump-seat, presumably until a certain number of hours on-type were achieved.
Simulators have come a long way since, but if it made sense then......
Not sure of their exact policy, but BEA had a practice of low-time or zero-hours on-type pilots acting as 2nd Officers with a supervising 1st Officer in the jump-seat, presumably until a certain number of hours on-type were achieved.
Simulators have come a long way since, but if it made sense then......
Deadly late
Thread Starter
Good Afternoon Left Coaster
Your reply on Mental Health is absolutely spot on, as for too many years Mental Illness has had this stigma attached to it. For example if someone has a tooth ache they see a Dentist, a bad head cold they see a G.P. so why should Mental Illness be any different?
I find it ironic that most disability plans will take care of a person for many years but for Mental Illness it is in most cases just two years. In the former a company will make sure you get to see the specialist needed to get back to work quickly yet in the later it is almost lip service!
Over the years I have known a couple of people who suffered under this stigma one was able to get back to work with in the two years and is now a very productive citizen the other sadly has disappeared.
Part of the culture in aviation comes from the military philosophy that Mental Illness is lack of character issue which really does more harm then good as the person will tend to suffer in silence rather than seek help.
We all need to change our collective philosophy on this subject and challenge others who still think of this as a character flaw before we have more issues related to this subject.
Your reply on Mental Health is absolutely spot on, as for too many years Mental Illness has had this stigma attached to it. For example if someone has a tooth ache they see a Dentist, a bad head cold they see a G.P. so why should Mental Illness be any different?
I find it ironic that most disability plans will take care of a person for many years but for Mental Illness it is in most cases just two years. In the former a company will make sure you get to see the specialist needed to get back to work quickly yet in the later it is almost lip service!
Over the years I have known a couple of people who suffered under this stigma one was able to get back to work with in the two years and is now a very productive citizen the other sadly has disappeared.
Part of the culture in aviation comes from the military philosophy that Mental Illness is lack of character issue which really does more harm then good as the person will tend to suffer in silence rather than seek help.
We all need to change our collective philosophy on this subject and challenge others who still think of this as a character flaw before we have more issues related to this subject.
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bcflyer
As a side note it will now leave hundreds of cabins unattended every day when the pilot of a 50 seat aircraft uses the lav. (1-50 rule)
As a side note it will now leave hundreds of cabins unattended every day when the pilot of a 50 seat aircraft uses the lav. (1-50 rule)
AC 0215 Flight Deck Door Regulations - 7 February 2003
The FAA has also required such a procedure of their air carriers for many years:
3-47 PROCEDURES FOR OPENING, CLOSING, AND LOCKING FLIGHT DECK DOORS.
B. Certificate Holders’ Procedures. Certificate holders’ procedures must include at least the following:
1) Normal procedures for opening flightcrew compartment doors to include:
f) Procedures for two person flightcrews, when one flightcrew member leaves the flight deck
(i.e., a F/A must lock the door and remain on the flight deck until the flightcrew member returns to his or her station).
B. Certificate Holders’ Procedures. Certificate holders’ procedures must include at least the following:
1) Normal procedures for opening flightcrew compartment doors to include:
f) Procedures for two person flightcrews, when one flightcrew member leaves the flight deck
(i.e., a F/A must lock the door and remain on the flight deck until the flightcrew member returns to his or her station).
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Nobody has raised any concerned about the fact that it's a low cost carrier filling the right seat with whoever has bought they licence and is willing to work for near nothing little benefits and all....
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Unfortunately the training center in Canada always asked me money to train me for private, commercial an IFR licenses/ratings.
I do not know the conditions at GW, I would guess that they are not much worse than at many commuter airlines in North America.
