Question for Canadian Air Traffic Controllers and Recruiters
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Question for Canadian Air Traffic Controllers and Recruiters
I wonder if you guys could please answer some questions for me regarding Air Traffic Careers in Canada that's a bit more in depth than what you can find on the Nav Canada website.I'm finding it tough to get hold of a person to speak to when calling Nav Canada.
1: I am a Flight Instructor in Manitoba, and hold a Transport Canada Commercial Pilots License, so have a strong aviation background and have experienced the other side of the coin. I am originally from the UK although have landed residency status in Canada now. From the UK, I have what they call an Air to Ground Radio operators certificate based on my pilots license. This enables me to carry out duties that appear to be similar to an FSS in Canada where we can provide an information service, and traffic information at un controlled airports, which I do have considerable experience in doing.
How much does all this help towards training to become an FSS, or an Airport Controller in Canada? Would it shorten it considerably? or does this knowledge and experience not carry much weight?
2: If one holds a class 1 medical already, does one still need a class 2 medical? Or is the class 1 considered a higher level and fills the medical requirements?
3: I understand one has to be willing to re-locate, then apply for a transfer back to their local facility or other desired facility later on. Realistically, lets say for example I wanted to work either as an Airport Controller in Winnipeg, or an FSS in one of the airports in that surrounding area in South Manitoba. Are there many openings that crop up here, or could I be waiting a long time to transfer back to this area? I see there is a job opening here right now, but is there one that crops up often within this area?
4: Is there a training facility in this area in South Manitoba? Or would the training have to take place elsewhere?
5: I understand that Airport Controllers work around the clock. Typically what are the shift patterns? Are they split into 3 with earlies, lates and nights? I imagine FSS services are more daytime shifts, as uncontrolled airports become unmanned or close after hours?
6: I understand that initial training is unpaid, yet full time so one is unable to earn money during that period. I was a bit confused on the website exactly how long the unpaid duration is. I saw 4-6 months in two boxes, then 7-14 months on the third. In my case assuming my background was going to help me along, how long would you say approximately the unpaid duration of training would be? Just so that I can plan ahead.
Many thanks in advance for your time guys.
1: I am a Flight Instructor in Manitoba, and hold a Transport Canada Commercial Pilots License, so have a strong aviation background and have experienced the other side of the coin. I am originally from the UK although have landed residency status in Canada now. From the UK, I have what they call an Air to Ground Radio operators certificate based on my pilots license. This enables me to carry out duties that appear to be similar to an FSS in Canada where we can provide an information service, and traffic information at un controlled airports, which I do have considerable experience in doing.
How much does all this help towards training to become an FSS, or an Airport Controller in Canada? Would it shorten it considerably? or does this knowledge and experience not carry much weight?
2: If one holds a class 1 medical already, does one still need a class 2 medical? Or is the class 1 considered a higher level and fills the medical requirements?
3: I understand one has to be willing to re-locate, then apply for a transfer back to their local facility or other desired facility later on. Realistically, lets say for example I wanted to work either as an Airport Controller in Winnipeg, or an FSS in one of the airports in that surrounding area in South Manitoba. Are there many openings that crop up here, or could I be waiting a long time to transfer back to this area? I see there is a job opening here right now, but is there one that crops up often within this area?
4: Is there a training facility in this area in South Manitoba? Or would the training have to take place elsewhere?
5: I understand that Airport Controllers work around the clock. Typically what are the shift patterns? Are they split into 3 with earlies, lates and nights? I imagine FSS services are more daytime shifts, as uncontrolled airports become unmanned or close after hours?
6: I understand that initial training is unpaid, yet full time so one is unable to earn money during that period. I was a bit confused on the website exactly how long the unpaid duration is. I saw 4-6 months in two boxes, then 7-14 months on the third. In my case assuming my background was going to help me along, how long would you say approximately the unpaid duration of training would be? Just so that I can plan ahead.
Many thanks in advance for your time guys.
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VGO III
I can answer some of your queries....however I don't know the answers from an FSS side. I also don't know the Manitoba situation. Hopefully someone else will be able to answer those queries.
However in numerical order on your questions
1 Your experience won't shorten the training. It will just make it a LOT easier to pass the initial selection. Once training starts you have the advantage of an aviation background and being familiar with the correct RT....which will make the book learning and simulation easier.
Experience carries weight in that it will make it easier for you during training IF you are able to convert it to the ATC side of things.
2 A class 1 medical will suffice (someone correct me if I am wrong).
3 You do need to be ready to locate wherever NAV Canada needs you. It wouldn't surprise me if there was a flexibility in postings though if units are short staffed round the country. If you did get placed somewhere away from home...you can't seniority bid to leave to another location for at least 3 years.
4 Training is done at the Area ACCs now. Again someone correct me if I am wrong.
5 From an ACC perspective. Shifts are Days, Evenings, Night shifts. NAV Canada has a fair amount of flexibility in their shift patterns....you usually end up with an OK schedule. Everyone has to do night shifts (at least in YYZ anyway)...although people that really don't like them will swap out of them if able.
6 Unpaid training lasts until you come out of the simulators and reach the floor for live training. It could be anything from what you suggested (6 months to a year). Again your background won't speed up the process....it will just help you reach the "paid" stage...hopefully a bit easier.
Although training is full time...it is often still shift work oriented.....so there is nothing to stop people from earning outside these hours.
Most people don't recommend it as they say you need to spend all this time studying etc to give yourself the best chance.
I say...do whatever you have to do to be able to subsist...AND give yourself the best chance of checking out. If a part time job pays the rent...AND you are able to get through unpaid training....then best of luck.
You can also glean a lot of ATC information on Avcanada (it does have some uses). The training process has been streamlined round Canada now...and there are a lot of people online that can give you specific information...especially for the region you are in.
PM if you want any more specifics.
I can answer some of your queries....however I don't know the answers from an FSS side. I also don't know the Manitoba situation. Hopefully someone else will be able to answer those queries.
However in numerical order on your questions
1 Your experience won't shorten the training. It will just make it a LOT easier to pass the initial selection. Once training starts you have the advantage of an aviation background and being familiar with the correct RT....which will make the book learning and simulation easier.
Experience carries weight in that it will make it easier for you during training IF you are able to convert it to the ATC side of things.
2 A class 1 medical will suffice (someone correct me if I am wrong).
3 You do need to be ready to locate wherever NAV Canada needs you. It wouldn't surprise me if there was a flexibility in postings though if units are short staffed round the country. If you did get placed somewhere away from home...you can't seniority bid to leave to another location for at least 3 years.
4 Training is done at the Area ACCs now. Again someone correct me if I am wrong.
5 From an ACC perspective. Shifts are Days, Evenings, Night shifts. NAV Canada has a fair amount of flexibility in their shift patterns....you usually end up with an OK schedule. Everyone has to do night shifts (at least in YYZ anyway)...although people that really don't like them will swap out of them if able.
6 Unpaid training lasts until you come out of the simulators and reach the floor for live training. It could be anything from what you suggested (6 months to a year). Again your background won't speed up the process....it will just help you reach the "paid" stage...hopefully a bit easier.
Although training is full time...it is often still shift work oriented.....so there is nothing to stop people from earning outside these hours.
Most people don't recommend it as they say you need to spend all this time studying etc to give yourself the best chance.
I say...do whatever you have to do to be able to subsist...AND give yourself the best chance of checking out. If a part time job pays the rent...AND you are able to get through unpaid training....then best of luck.
You can also glean a lot of ATC information on Avcanada (it does have some uses). The training process has been streamlined round Canada now...and there are a lot of people online that can give you specific information...especially for the region you are in.
PM if you want any more specifics.
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Apply to NavCanada, wait, and wait some more. Write the aptitude exam. Wait some more. If you pass the exam, wait for interview 1. If you pass interview 1, wait for interview 2. If you pass interview 2, you go for a medical. Your PPL, CPL, or even your ATR ATP medical does not matter. One bit. Your previous experience matters, but only slightly. Most ATC and FSS do not know how to fly an aeroplane, and dont want to. Southern Manitoba? Good luck. Seniority matters. Churchill, or Thompson much more likely. How does Kenora sound? La Ronge? The Pas? Small communities. Very small communities. Perhaps some of the aforementioned locations are now remoted to a central station.
Be prepared to wait, and wait some more. Yes, avcanada.ca is an excellent source of information.
Be prepared to wait, and wait some more. Yes, avcanada.ca is an excellent source of information.
Last edited by evansb; 25th Apr 2014 at 04:51.
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RE your experience.
An aviation background in my opinion is always better than no aviation background. One of the hardest things for trainee's to get their heads round is the bookwork (Charts, maps, approaches etc) AND getting used to using RT.
As a pilot that is one thing you already know how to do...so that part of training isn't as alien as it is to someone who is a first time RT user and has never seen a chart in their career to date.
So it does matter to you..as you won't find it quite so daunting.
There are quite afew atco's out there with PPLs. Most atco's understand the basics of flying...otherwise they wouldn't check out in the first place. It is a whole other topic/debate of understanding the other sides job. I rue the day that transport Canada stopped allowing fam flights...as much as I rue that we don't see many line pilots coming in to visit the ACC/tower side of things.
RE seniority. It matters when you check out obviously regarding leave, cycles etc. It dosen't matter during the training process as you either can do it..or you can't. You can't bid to another unit after checking out for a miniumum of 3 years and then you are up against other bidders..where the seniority will count.
I have to agree as Evansb said...the wait process seems to be a wee bit long!
An aviation background in my opinion is always better than no aviation background. One of the hardest things for trainee's to get their heads round is the bookwork (Charts, maps, approaches etc) AND getting used to using RT.
As a pilot that is one thing you already know how to do...so that part of training isn't as alien as it is to someone who is a first time RT user and has never seen a chart in their career to date.
So it does matter to you..as you won't find it quite so daunting.
Most ATC and FSS do not know how to fly an aeroplane, and dont want to
RE seniority. It matters when you check out obviously regarding leave, cycles etc. It dosen't matter during the training process as you either can do it..or you can't. You can't bid to another unit after checking out for a miniumum of 3 years and then you are up against other bidders..where the seniority will count.
I have to agree as Evansb said...the wait process seems to be a wee bit long!
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Yes, the loss of flight deck fam flights was a big mistake, these flights really did help to "see the other side" and created a good relationship between ATCO and flight crews . As for flight crews visiting IFR facilities and towers, my F/O and myself decided to visit a tower a few months back, what a bloody pain dealing with the security idiots, the visit was great but just getting to the building was like visiting North Korea, this in spite of a controller who worked at the facility being our escort, must be the same plods who wanted to arrest an ATCO for not wearing her airport pass whilst in the IFR room, hope they don't work it out that most pilots don't wear them on the flight deck, might have to shoot us down as a security risk!
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Thanks guys, it all sounds do-able so far except having to move for a minimum of 3 years and having no guarantees after that of coming back.
I wonder if I should just apply for the post that's in Winnipeg now, which isn't advertised for a ready qualified controller. It talks about all the training.
I just don't want to find myself in a position where I get trained up and all of a sudden they then say, my post is now elsewhere and I find myself stuck out somewhere completely different. I guess this is entirely possible?
I wonder if I should just apply for the post that's in Winnipeg now, which isn't advertised for a ready qualified controller. It talks about all the training.
I just don't want to find myself in a position where I get trained up and all of a sudden they then say, my post is now elsewhere and I find myself stuck out somewhere completely different. I guess this is entirely possible?
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Yes, the loss of flight deck fam flights was a big mistake
I just don't want to find myself in a position where I get trained up and all of a sudden they then say, my post is now elsewhere and I find myself stuck out somewhere completely different. I guess this is entirely possible?
