proof of medical fitness....
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proof of medical fitness....
In my effort to complete the final steps to become the holder of a Canadian Commercial Pilot's License for fixed wing aircraft, I presented myself this morning for a Category 1 medical examination. The examination went very well, and resulted in my present Private Pilot's License booklet (which contains a category 3 medical sticker) being appropriately stamped and signed by the medical examiner, to show evidence that I had passed his examination for category 1. With this (and all of my other requisite papers), I was confident that I met the requirements for sitting the written examination for CPL, which I had pre-arranged at the TC office at the same location, for the same day. Those requirements state:
.....shall produce proof of medical fitness in one of the following forms: (a) a Medical Certificate in the appropriate medical category;
(b) a Medical Assessment Letter (Form 26-0417) in the appropriate medical category;
(c) in the case of a Student Pilot Permit - Aeroplane, Pilot Permit - Ultra-light Aeroplane or Pilot Licence - Glider, a Civil Aviation Medical Declaration (Form 26-0297);
(d) a temporary Medical Certificate in the appropriate medical category; or
(e) a Medical Examination Report assessed to the appropriate medical category by the Regional Aviation Medical Officer.
Upon presenting myself, and my supporting documentation at the TC office, to sit the exam, my license booklet (medical page) was examined, and found not to meet the requirement for containing a "valid category 1 medical". I contested that it did, as the ink was still wet on the stamp from the examination only 30 minutes earlier. This position was firmly held by the TC staff member, and resulted in quite a stressful discussion (ok, argument, to quote him). The TC staff member asserted inflexibly that my license booklet must contain a sticker, indicating the Category 1 medical. The stamp was not good enough. I had him speak to the medical examiner, who confirmed that I had passed the category 1 examination. However, no sticker, no write the exam. I pointed out that with the "old" paper medical, the medical examiner's stamp was the valid medical, until the new one arrived. "Not any more" he told me.
After a due cooling off (me), I returned with, and drew to the attention of the TC staff member that the wording of the requirement in TC's own words, "(proof of meeting the medical fitness.... (d) a temporary Medical Certificate in the appropriate medical category. and that I had the proof (ink stamp), just not the sticker. This was not acceptable to him. I asked him to show me in writing where TC advisory material stated it was not. He would not indulge this request. I asked for written evidence from him that I would not be allowed to write the exam, and the reason, and his reply was "we don't do that". To his credit, he was more polite than I was. In an apparent effort to demonstrate some effort to do a little extra, he did attempt to link my present request, to a category 1 medical I did hold back in the 1970's, but apparently TC's records of my medicals do not go back that far! Point to him for an attempt at resourcefulness though. That gesture mitigated my anger slightly.
I suggested to him that in all fairness, the instructors and medical examiners be made clearly aware of this strict interpretation of pre-requisites, so they can inform the candidates. He said "this happens about once a month" and agreed this would be appropriate. He suggested that I should have had my category 1 medical examination done, when I started my training. "Why would I do that?" I asked him, "it would be expired by now!". He agreed. I explained that I had purposefully left it to the last, so it would remain valid longer, I have a cat 3 for private flying in the mean time. He did acknowledge the logic in that.
I left that office feeling subject to the silliest possible bureaucratic interpretation of the written standards, which in my opinion, is not defendable. I do not believe that this uncooperative attitude was in any way in the public, or TC's interest, and it is situations like this which simply fuel the negative public view of Transport Canada.
So, if you're upgrading a license, get everything lined up as you need, to save yourself the frustration I just experienced!
.....shall produce proof of medical fitness in one of the following forms: (a) a Medical Certificate in the appropriate medical category;
(b) a Medical Assessment Letter (Form 26-0417) in the appropriate medical category;
(c) in the case of a Student Pilot Permit - Aeroplane, Pilot Permit - Ultra-light Aeroplane or Pilot Licence - Glider, a Civil Aviation Medical Declaration (Form 26-0297);
(d) a temporary Medical Certificate in the appropriate medical category; or
(e) a Medical Examination Report assessed to the appropriate medical category by the Regional Aviation Medical Officer.
Upon presenting myself, and my supporting documentation at the TC office, to sit the exam, my license booklet (medical page) was examined, and found not to meet the requirement for containing a "valid category 1 medical". I contested that it did, as the ink was still wet on the stamp from the examination only 30 minutes earlier. This position was firmly held by the TC staff member, and resulted in quite a stressful discussion (ok, argument, to quote him). The TC staff member asserted inflexibly that my license booklet must contain a sticker, indicating the Category 1 medical. The stamp was not good enough. I had him speak to the medical examiner, who confirmed that I had passed the category 1 examination. However, no sticker, no write the exam. I pointed out that with the "old" paper medical, the medical examiner's stamp was the valid medical, until the new one arrived. "Not any more" he told me.
After a due cooling off (me), I returned with, and drew to the attention of the TC staff member that the wording of the requirement in TC's own words, "(proof of meeting the medical fitness.... (d) a temporary Medical Certificate in the appropriate medical category. and that I had the proof (ink stamp), just not the sticker. This was not acceptable to him. I asked him to show me in writing where TC advisory material stated it was not. He would not indulge this request. I asked for written evidence from him that I would not be allowed to write the exam, and the reason, and his reply was "we don't do that". To his credit, he was more polite than I was. In an apparent effort to demonstrate some effort to do a little extra, he did attempt to link my present request, to a category 1 medical I did hold back in the 1970's, but apparently TC's records of my medicals do not go back that far! Point to him for an attempt at resourcefulness though. That gesture mitigated my anger slightly.
I suggested to him that in all fairness, the instructors and medical examiners be made clearly aware of this strict interpretation of pre-requisites, so they can inform the candidates. He said "this happens about once a month" and agreed this would be appropriate. He suggested that I should have had my category 1 medical examination done, when I started my training. "Why would I do that?" I asked him, "it would be expired by now!". He agreed. I explained that I had purposefully left it to the last, so it would remain valid longer, I have a cat 3 for private flying in the mean time. He did acknowledge the logic in that.
I left that office feeling subject to the silliest possible bureaucratic interpretation of the written standards, which in my opinion, is not defendable. I do not believe that this uncooperative attitude was in any way in the public, or TC's interest, and it is situations like this which simply fuel the negative public view of Transport Canada.
So, if you're upgrading a license, get everything lined up as you need, to save yourself the frustration I just experienced!
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My license was at one time held hostage by a linear minded bureaucrat without an ounce of common sense or initiative. Fortunately I quickly found another one with a brain who rectified the situation and made up for his colleague's deficiencies. Hopefully that's the last time you will have to deal with such inflexibility.
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A Transport Canada official is free to interpret the law or the rules in any manner they want to suit their agenda of the moment.
Right or wrong has nothing to do with their actions including denying you your rights under law.
That is why I why I personally from experience with their actions feel in greater danger when being approached by a T.C. official than if I am being approached by a common street criminal.
A common street criminal can be held accountable under law, whereas a T.C. official is not.
Right or wrong has nothing to do with their actions including denying you your rights under law.
That is why I why I personally from experience with their actions feel in greater danger when being approached by a T.C. official than if I am being approached by a common street criminal.
A common street criminal can be held accountable under law, whereas a T.C. official is not.
I left that office feeling subject to the silliest possible bureaucratic interpretation of the written standards, which in my opinion, is not defendable. I do not believe that this uncooperative attitude was in any way in the public, or TC's interest, and it is situations like this which simply fuel the negative public view of Transport Canada.
I believe you have uncovered Transport Canada's mission statement. Sorry to say this but, it is what we have to deal with in this country. Transports mission in life seems to be to be as obstructionist as possible to as many people and companies as they can possibly be. It is a sad statement in this country that you cannot get anything in writing from any civil servant... even though that is exactly what you are supposed to get.
I have a suggestion for you... please, write to the regional office and give them all the details of your visit to the TC office and emphasize that you could not get a decision in writing. Might make life a little better for the next guy. Might!
I believe you have uncovered Transport Canada's mission statement. Sorry to say this but, it is what we have to deal with in this country. Transports mission in life seems to be to be as obstructionist as possible to as many people and companies as they can possibly be. It is a sad statement in this country that you cannot get anything in writing from any civil servant... even though that is exactly what you are supposed to get.
I have a suggestion for you... please, write to the regional office and give them all the details of your visit to the TC office and emphasize that you could not get a decision in writing. Might make life a little better for the next guy. Might!
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The pers that work in the Moncton licensing office have to be 3 of the most helpful that I have come across. Never any problems, only positive solutions. If you are close maybe try there.
Cheers,
Heloguy412
Cheers,
Heloguy412
Drain Bamaged
I had the same issue as engfireleft, got my ATPL revoked a few years ago by an unbelievable stupidly blunt close minded TC's agent in CYUL.
My story ended up very rapidly into Ottawa's main office. They sent me a new license right away and slapped the woman who had it red stamped "CANCELLED/ANNULLÉ" everywhere.
I kept the old one and got it framed
My story ended up very rapidly into Ottawa's main office. They sent me a new license right away and slapped the woman who had it red stamped "CANCELLED/ANNULLÉ" everywhere.
I kept the old one and got it framed
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Thread Starter
I have sent in a formal recommendation for a change in the policy which allows TC staff to "interpret" written standards to the disadvantage of the candidate, for no apparently good reason.
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Ok, I'll weigh in on this. It sounds to me like you went for a medical exam and took a copy of the form in as proof of your brand new Cat. 1 medical. You also had your Licence booklet stamped showing that you had a medical.
You had now renewed your Cat 3 medical "certificate" and at the same time completed your Cat 1 "evaluation". That process does not give you a Cat 1 Medical "Certificate". The CAME does an evaluation and it is submitted to TC Doctors for a final evaluation to grant you a "Certificate". You are not medically qualified for a new or upgrade on your certificate until TC has processed and accepted your CAME's report and sends you a new certificate. Had you already had a CAT 1 medical certificate and even if it expired, then the exam and stamp validate your certificate. You did not have a CAT 1 certificate to validate, you had a CAT 3. The CAT 1 at that point is only an evaluation and not a certificate. It is for that reason that when I instructed, I had students get their CAT 1 immediately if they were planning on a Commercial licence. They can get through the CAME, but not through TC. The CAME does not grant the new medical, but only documents your health on a new application. I once had a student get his CAT 3 medical completed by a CAME only to be turned down by TC due to migraines.
Your argument:
returned with, and drew to the attention of the TC staff member that the wording of the requirement in TC's own words, "(proof of meeting the medical fitness.... (d) a temporary Medical Certificate in the appropriate medical category.
My argument:
you did not have a Medical Certificate (well you did, but it was a CAT 3), you only had the Medical Evaluation for the Certificate complete.
You might think that the TC staff member was unfair, but I contend they just didn't explain it properly to you or you didn't hear it properly. And as your argument that the stamp was good on the old paper Medical? Well, how did you get the paper Medical? You got it by completing the exam with the CAME and waiting for the TC Doctors to approve it and then they sent you a paper medical in the Category you applied for. Even then a CAT 3 paper Medical Certificate could not be upgraded to a CAT 1 with a stamp. The paper Certificate stated quite clearly in bold print CAT 3.
As far as you having a CAT 1 Medical in the 70's, well that file is likely somewhere, but it certainly predates the computer system that TC has used for decades now.
Jurassic
You had now renewed your Cat 3 medical "certificate" and at the same time completed your Cat 1 "evaluation". That process does not give you a Cat 1 Medical "Certificate". The CAME does an evaluation and it is submitted to TC Doctors for a final evaluation to grant you a "Certificate". You are not medically qualified for a new or upgrade on your certificate until TC has processed and accepted your CAME's report and sends you a new certificate. Had you already had a CAT 1 medical certificate and even if it expired, then the exam and stamp validate your certificate. You did not have a CAT 1 certificate to validate, you had a CAT 3. The CAT 1 at that point is only an evaluation and not a certificate. It is for that reason that when I instructed, I had students get their CAT 1 immediately if they were planning on a Commercial licence. They can get through the CAME, but not through TC. The CAME does not grant the new medical, but only documents your health on a new application. I once had a student get his CAT 3 medical completed by a CAME only to be turned down by TC due to migraines.
Your argument:
returned with, and drew to the attention of the TC staff member that the wording of the requirement in TC's own words, "(proof of meeting the medical fitness.... (d) a temporary Medical Certificate in the appropriate medical category.
My argument:
you did not have a Medical Certificate (well you did, but it was a CAT 3), you only had the Medical Evaluation for the Certificate complete.
You might think that the TC staff member was unfair, but I contend they just didn't explain it properly to you or you didn't hear it properly. And as your argument that the stamp was good on the old paper Medical? Well, how did you get the paper Medical? You got it by completing the exam with the CAME and waiting for the TC Doctors to approve it and then they sent you a paper medical in the Category you applied for. Even then a CAT 3 paper Medical Certificate could not be upgraded to a CAT 1 with a stamp. The paper Certificate stated quite clearly in bold print CAT 3.
As far as you having a CAT 1 Medical in the 70's, well that file is likely somewhere, but it certainly predates the computer system that TC has used for decades now.
Jurassic
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Thread Starter
Yup, all of that is factual.
I contend, however, that in light of these facts, allowing the candidate to write the exam, when there is evdence that the cat 1 examination has been completed, would be reasonable, and simply empathetic, under the circumstances. The opportunity to write the exam, is not the issuance of the license, it's just the exam. Should TC decide that they must withhold the medical, they have not lost that opportunity, as the license has not yet been issued. Yes, I take my chances that the cat 1 could be refused, but by the time I get to the exam, I have already made the major part of the investment.
To my amusement, during the resulting discussions, I was actually told that I cannot even receive CPL training until I have a cat 1. Nonsense. I own the plane, have a valid PPL, and cat 3 medical. Thus I am allowed to fly that plane, and even receive instruction in it if I choose. This TC position seemed to be allowed to fade when pressed.
The fact that the TC procedure for this can be seen to follow a path, all be it, an annoying one, does not mean that the alternative approach would not work every bit as well, and be a lot more understanding and empathetic, with exactly the same outcome.
Sometimes I can see the reasons behind the way TC does things, though not this time. I hope I can affect a fair change.
To my liking, TC has since demonstrated a real willingness to help me minimize the affect of this setback, in a meaningful way.
I contend, however, that in light of these facts, allowing the candidate to write the exam, when there is evdence that the cat 1 examination has been completed, would be reasonable, and simply empathetic, under the circumstances. The opportunity to write the exam, is not the issuance of the license, it's just the exam. Should TC decide that they must withhold the medical, they have not lost that opportunity, as the license has not yet been issued. Yes, I take my chances that the cat 1 could be refused, but by the time I get to the exam, I have already made the major part of the investment.
To my amusement, during the resulting discussions, I was actually told that I cannot even receive CPL training until I have a cat 1. Nonsense. I own the plane, have a valid PPL, and cat 3 medical. Thus I am allowed to fly that plane, and even receive instruction in it if I choose. This TC position seemed to be allowed to fade when pressed.
The fact that the TC procedure for this can be seen to follow a path, all be it, an annoying one, does not mean that the alternative approach would not work every bit as well, and be a lot more understanding and empathetic, with exactly the same outcome.
Sometimes I can see the reasons behind the way TC does things, though not this time. I hope I can affect a fair change.
To my liking, TC has since demonstrated a real willingness to help me minimize the affect of this setback, in a meaningful way.
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In all fairness to the TC employee, they did apply the rules as written. Are the rules fair? I would think that common sense (not always applied at TC) would say that if you had a CAT 3 medical, had completed the CAT 1 medical exam and had a given amount of hours in your logbook, then why not let someone write the exam.
On the other hand, you did mention that you didn't want to do the CAT 1 medical until you really needed it so you could prolong the validity. If you did the CAT 1 Medical and received the certificate, it is valid for CAT3 purposes just as long as a CAT 3 medical. That way, you only have to renew it when you are ready for your commercial flight test.
As far as training - there is no rule requiring someone to have a medical certificate for any training.
Jurassic
On the other hand, you did mention that you didn't want to do the CAT 1 medical until you really needed it so you could prolong the validity. If you did the CAT 1 Medical and received the certificate, it is valid for CAT3 purposes just as long as a CAT 3 medical. That way, you only have to renew it when you are ready for your commercial flight test.
As far as training - there is no rule requiring someone to have a medical certificate for any training.
Jurassic
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Yes I guess they did apply the rules as written. But only a bureaucracy like TC could write such rules. At the heart of this farce is the requirement to have a Class I medical to write the exam.
To get the licence you must complete a number of steps:
Written exam
Medical
Flight experience
Flight test
Probably more - it's been nearly 50 years since I got my first licence.
What bureaucrat decided that one must precede another? (Other than the experience requirement of course). The process is not complete until all items are accomplished AND TC issues the licence. The requirement to truck into a TC office multiple times can be onerous for some - this system serves the regulator far more than it does the user.
To get the licence you must complete a number of steps:
Written exam
Medical
Flight experience
Flight test
Probably more - it's been nearly 50 years since I got my first licence.
What bureaucrat decided that one must precede another? (Other than the experience requirement of course). The process is not complete until all items are accomplished AND TC issues the licence. The requirement to truck into a TC office multiple times can be onerous for some - this system serves the regulator far more than it does the user.
