Best university for AME?
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decision making
The age limit for getting into the Indian airforce as a pilot is 22. I am well above that age limit. For the technical line also for my Degree in Electrical and electronics would lead me to to a desk working with electronics equipments alone . The main thing i like in AME is the mechanical part of it .. The engines mainly . Military will never let go through a mechanical line considering my electrical and electronics degree qualification .And also it would take another year to write the exam,selection test and other criterion . And by chance if i don get though the whole year is wasted. I dont think military would be a good option for me right now.
Let me know one things if you were in my shoes and given 2 option either to go for a AME course or master in Aviation management! considering the aviation sector after 2 years( that would be the time taken to finish the course ) what option would you take. Remember a pilot is what you want to end up as .( option of flight training is denied because of the huge cost involved in it ) . would love to know your reply
. thanks for your time .
Let me know one things if you were in my shoes and given 2 option either to go for a AME course or master in Aviation management! considering the aviation sector after 2 years( that would be the time taken to finish the course ) what option would you take. Remember a pilot is what you want to end up as .( option of flight training is denied because of the huge cost involved in it ) . would love to know your reply
. thanks for your time .
Last edited by bala_murali; 29th Jul 2010 at 11:17. Reason: error in adding fonts
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You will have to make up your own mind and then live with your decision
As you have already traveled down the path to a university education, and you have achieved some success there, I would suggest you continue on that path.
The vice president of maintenance in the airline I work for, has a masters in aviation maintenance and management. In that position he can pretty well do anything he pleases. He could spend a day on the floor in coveralls with us blue collar workers and do an engine change or anything else that he wants.
He is pulling in a good 6 figure salary, he can afford to buy and operate his own aircraft. Perhaps that is how you can achieve your dream?
Good luck with your choice.
The vice president of maintenance in the airline I work for, has a masters in aviation maintenance and management. In that position he can pretty well do anything he pleases. He could spend a day on the floor in coveralls with us blue collar workers and do an engine change or anything else that he wants.
He is pulling in a good 6 figure salary, he can afford to buy and operate his own aircraft. Perhaps that is how you can achieve your dream?
Good luck with your choice.
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MANAGER OR an AME ?
hi there flatface .
Thanks for your reply flatface. From your point of view considering job opportunities ,do AME"S freshers have a better shot or people in management line have a better shot . Thanks for your opinions .It helps alot.
Thanks for your reply flatface. From your point of view considering job opportunities ,do AME"S freshers have a better shot or people in management line have a better shot . Thanks for your opinions .It helps alot.
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Management opportunities
Your question is unclear. If you want to know where the managers come from, I can only reply about the company I work for.
It seems virtually all low level managers come from the AME ranks, the upper levels, executive class, come from the outside.
I am speaking of the maintenance department only.
Of the 20 or so colleagues that joined this company from the military about 30 years ago, only two survived to today. Both myself and another AME remain, we continue in are original jobs and are in the union. All the others went into management, left the union, and none have survived to today. Some left of their own free will, others were terminated or downsized over the years.
Only you can choose which path to take, I can only relay my direct experience in this one company.
It seems virtually all low level managers come from the AME ranks, the upper levels, executive class, come from the outside.
I am speaking of the maintenance department only.
Of the 20 or so colleagues that joined this company from the military about 30 years ago, only two survived to today. Both myself and another AME remain, we continue in are original jobs and are in the union. All the others went into management, left the union, and none have survived to today. Some left of their own free will, others were terminated or downsized over the years.
Only you can choose which path to take, I can only relay my direct experience in this one company.
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does logic apply for aviation?
HI there Flatface
Sorry. Let me rephrase the question, In your opinion ,considering the aviation job market in 2 years ( the time is finish my course ) who would be having a better prospect at job opportunities :
we arrived at some logical conclusion during the discussion ,
The number of freshers in diploma AME on an average would be definitely more than freshers in Master of aviation management. So i would be in competition with less number of people who on an average belong to my own age group.
would like to know your view on this . These are conclusion arrived from pure logic . Do correct if i am wrong. Thanks a million for sharing your experience.
Sorry. Let me rephrase the question, In your opinion ,considering the aviation job market in 2 years ( the time is finish my course ) who would be having a better prospect at job opportunities :
- a person who has finished his masters in aviation management
- a person who has finished a diploma or a Bachelors degree in aircraft maintenance
we arrived at some logical conclusion during the discussion ,
- AGE DIFFERENCE :
- COMPETITION
The number of freshers in diploma AME on an average would be definitely more than freshers in Master of aviation management. So i would be in competition with less number of people who on an average belong to my own age group.
would like to know your view on this . These are conclusion arrived from pure logic . Do correct if i am wrong. Thanks a million for sharing your experience.
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Age Difference and Competition
When I was discussing age difference and competition, I was referring to a flying jobs, not maintenance jobs. Age is not much of a barrier for an AME to get hired, the guy I work with everyday was hired at age 50. A new hire AME will get entry level pay, an experienced AME with relevant endorsements will get much better pay, maybe twice as much.
In two years, I believe the job opportunities will be greater for you if you have a master's degree in aviation. Not only will the job opportunities be better, you will start at much higher salary, two or three times more pay. In two years, there will be 50 to 100 applicants for every AME job (my opinion), while there may only be 5 to 10 applicants (again my opinion) with a master's degree for a management job. Traditionally, AMEs are hired in groups, 10 or 20 at a time. Managers with master's degrees are hired only once in a while, one at a time. Keep in mind, no one can tell what will happen in the future.
I believe that airlines will prefer to hire AMEs that have type endorsements relevant to the job being offered, if the airline is flying B737, and you show up with A320 endorsement, the man with B737 qualifications will be hired, regardless of experience. The reason? It is the cost of sending you on course to get the endorsement. Years ago when I was on the B747 course, we had someone who paid for a seat on the course, he paid $41,000 CDN for the training, the rest of us were paid our salary to attend and we had all our expenses paid too.
The number one priority in business today seems to be cost control. They also have to meet regulatory requirements, ie: they have to have qualified and trained people on staff and able to cover all flights, day, night, weekends, and holidays.
This is all irrelevant if you hate your job and dread getting up each morning to go to work.
In two years, I believe the job opportunities will be greater for you if you have a master's degree in aviation. Not only will the job opportunities be better, you will start at much higher salary, two or three times more pay. In two years, there will be 50 to 100 applicants for every AME job (my opinion), while there may only be 5 to 10 applicants (again my opinion) with a master's degree for a management job. Traditionally, AMEs are hired in groups, 10 or 20 at a time. Managers with master's degrees are hired only once in a while, one at a time. Keep in mind, no one can tell what will happen in the future.
I believe that airlines will prefer to hire AMEs that have type endorsements relevant to the job being offered, if the airline is flying B737, and you show up with A320 endorsement, the man with B737 qualifications will be hired, regardless of experience. The reason? It is the cost of sending you on course to get the endorsement. Years ago when I was on the B747 course, we had someone who paid for a seat on the course, he paid $41,000 CDN for the training, the rest of us were paid our salary to attend and we had all our expenses paid too.
The number one priority in business today seems to be cost control. They also have to meet regulatory requirements, ie: they have to have qualified and trained people on staff and able to cover all flights, day, night, weekends, and holidays.
This is all irrelevant if you hate your job and dread getting up each morning to go to work.
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AME Training
Good Day,
AME Training:
There are approximately 14 colleges and institutions with Transport Canada approved AME basic training programs in Canada. These Approved Training Organizations (ATOs)can be found in Transport Canada Airworthiness Notice C002: Airworthiness Notice - C002, Edition 10 - 27 October 2005 - Airworthiness Notices - Policy Development - Aircraft Maintenance and Manufacturing - Aircraft - Air Transportation - Transport Canada
AN C002 has fairly comprehensive information about AME training and is a good reference document. The ATOs are listed in Appendix "B" .
Canadian AME training is well regulated and meets most countries' aviation regulatory standards. Having said that, to my knowledge, Canada does not have reciprocal agreements with other countries that guarantee compliance with foriegn training standards. Therefore, each country's aviation regulatory agency would decide, on an individual basis, whether approved Canadian training would meet their standards. I have met with representatives from the Indian aviation regulatory agency (DGCA), and they suggested that the Canadian standards would meet their requirements.
Best program:
You were interested in the "best" program. All the institutions delivering TC approved AME Basic training are Audited by a national TC audit team to the standards in Chapter 566 of the Canadian Aviation Regulations on an ongoing basis. The credentials from any of the ATOs have the same value and all the Approved programs in Canada are very good. Any suggestion of 1 being better that the other is based on individual or employer opinions, and that varies all over the country.
I would suggest that you chosse a program based on your preference for location, cost, or other personal preferences.
Appprenticeship: Stevenson Campus at Red River College offers an AME diploma course and the only Approved AME "M" apprenticeship program in Canada. Apprenticeship is not a great fit for International applicants because the applicant must be employed as an apprentice aircraft mechanic with a Canadian employer to get into the program.
Electrical/electronics degree: I believe that an electronics degree from a reputable university would be a major assett in both AME training and future employment in the industry. There is pressure from the industry, AME associations, and Colleges to incorporate more electrical content into AME training. The College of the North Atlantic in Gander, have an approved 2 year program that includes content for both the AME "M" and "E" (avionics) licenses.
This degree should also be a great assett if you decide to pursue Pilot Training.
The Aviation Industry/employment: Globally the demand for both AMEs and Pilots is strong. I have been to India a few times and worked with a college in Chandagarh on an joint AME training program. It is my understanding that the Indian air carriers need many more AMEs.
In Canada employment opportunities for graduates of the programs have been very good to date. This may change if the economy gets worse, but so far prospects are good.
Aviation is a challenging and rewarding industry with worldwide opportunities.
The pay is good and working conditions are usually quite good.
Everyone I know in the industry likes it and finds it interesting, and often exciting. Many students from India train in Canada as AMEs and any that I have dealt with, say that they love the training and the work.
Pilot training:
You mentioned that your ultimate desire would be to become a pilot.
There is a big demand for pilots globally and it is expected to increase rapidly. Most large air carriers want applicants to have a degree or diploma. You have that, and I believe that an Electronics degree would be well received. The actual flight training can be accomplishesd at any flight training unit, and there are many in Canada. It can be done at your own pace, or as funds are available. It is always good to have "back up" skills such as your electronics skills and/or AME certification, because flying certification is dependant on medical fitness as determined annually by an Aviation Medical Examiner.
I believe that this information is fairly accurate and hope it has been of some help.
Please feel free to contact me if I can be of further assistance.
Thank you,
Dennis Doersam
Director,
Red River College/Stevenson Aviation Campus
[email protected]
AME Training:
There are approximately 14 colleges and institutions with Transport Canada approved AME basic training programs in Canada. These Approved Training Organizations (ATOs)can be found in Transport Canada Airworthiness Notice C002: Airworthiness Notice - C002, Edition 10 - 27 October 2005 - Airworthiness Notices - Policy Development - Aircraft Maintenance and Manufacturing - Aircraft - Air Transportation - Transport Canada
AN C002 has fairly comprehensive information about AME training and is a good reference document. The ATOs are listed in Appendix "B" .
Canadian AME training is well regulated and meets most countries' aviation regulatory standards. Having said that, to my knowledge, Canada does not have reciprocal agreements with other countries that guarantee compliance with foriegn training standards. Therefore, each country's aviation regulatory agency would decide, on an individual basis, whether approved Canadian training would meet their standards. I have met with representatives from the Indian aviation regulatory agency (DGCA), and they suggested that the Canadian standards would meet their requirements.
Best program:
You were interested in the "best" program. All the institutions delivering TC approved AME Basic training are Audited by a national TC audit team to the standards in Chapter 566 of the Canadian Aviation Regulations on an ongoing basis. The credentials from any of the ATOs have the same value and all the Approved programs in Canada are very good. Any suggestion of 1 being better that the other is based on individual or employer opinions, and that varies all over the country.
I would suggest that you chosse a program based on your preference for location, cost, or other personal preferences.
Appprenticeship: Stevenson Campus at Red River College offers an AME diploma course and the only Approved AME "M" apprenticeship program in Canada. Apprenticeship is not a great fit for International applicants because the applicant must be employed as an apprentice aircraft mechanic with a Canadian employer to get into the program.
Electrical/electronics degree: I believe that an electronics degree from a reputable university would be a major assett in both AME training and future employment in the industry. There is pressure from the industry, AME associations, and Colleges to incorporate more electrical content into AME training. The College of the North Atlantic in Gander, have an approved 2 year program that includes content for both the AME "M" and "E" (avionics) licenses.
This degree should also be a great assett if you decide to pursue Pilot Training.
The Aviation Industry/employment: Globally the demand for both AMEs and Pilots is strong. I have been to India a few times and worked with a college in Chandagarh on an joint AME training program. It is my understanding that the Indian air carriers need many more AMEs.
In Canada employment opportunities for graduates of the programs have been very good to date. This may change if the economy gets worse, but so far prospects are good.
Aviation is a challenging and rewarding industry with worldwide opportunities.
The pay is good and working conditions are usually quite good.
Everyone I know in the industry likes it and finds it interesting, and often exciting. Many students from India train in Canada as AMEs and any that I have dealt with, say that they love the training and the work.
Pilot training:
You mentioned that your ultimate desire would be to become a pilot.
There is a big demand for pilots globally and it is expected to increase rapidly. Most large air carriers want applicants to have a degree or diploma. You have that, and I believe that an Electronics degree would be well received. The actual flight training can be accomplishesd at any flight training unit, and there are many in Canada. It can be done at your own pace, or as funds are available. It is always good to have "back up" skills such as your electronics skills and/or AME certification, because flying certification is dependant on medical fitness as determined annually by an Aviation Medical Examiner.
I believe that this information is fairly accurate and hope it has been of some help.
Please feel free to contact me if I can be of further assistance.
Thank you,
Dennis Doersam
Director,
Red River College/Stevenson Aviation Campus
[email protected]
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1 Acadia University
2 Carleton University
3 Concordia University
4 Dalhousie University
5 Lakehead University
6 Laurentian University
7 Queen's University
8 The Royal Military College of Canada
are some of the best colleges in canada for engineering.
........................
2 Carleton University
3 Concordia University
4 Dalhousie University
5 Lakehead University
6 Laurentian University
7 Queen's University
8 The Royal Military College of Canada
are some of the best colleges in canada for engineering.
........................
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Information
Hi
This is to inform you that i am planning to do AME course from Canada in Category 'M' but i am in dilemma that which college is best for this course so i have two choices either i can go for BCIT or Red River College so which one is best out of these two colleges so do reply me as soon as possible.
Thanks & Regards
Ashish Ahuja (India)
This is to inform you that i am planning to do AME course from Canada in Category 'M' but i am in dilemma that which college is best for this course so i have two choices either i can go for BCIT or Red River College so which one is best out of these two colleges so do reply me as soon as possible.
Thanks & Regards
Ashish Ahuja (India)
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query
Hi
This is ashish ahuja from India planning to come to Canada for AME course in category m so could you please tell me which college is good for this course either BCIT or Red River college .so i am not able to decide that in which college i should go . so please help me out ,moreover i have already completed this course from India and i have bamel (basic aircraft maintenance engineering licence) in jet engine and heavier air frame but still i am job less because scope is bad in India so is it a right decision to do this course once again from Canada although its just a diploma not a degree and is there any further opportunities after doing this course like degree/ management. so could you please suggest me that which course is good for me after going through my profile as far as career and job opportunities are concerned.
Thanks & Regards
Ashish Ahuja
This is ashish ahuja from India planning to come to Canada for AME course in category m so could you please tell me which college is good for this course either BCIT or Red River college .so i am not able to decide that in which college i should go . so please help me out ,moreover i have already completed this course from India and i have bamel (basic aircraft maintenance engineering licence) in jet engine and heavier air frame but still i am job less because scope is bad in India so is it a right decision to do this course once again from Canada although its just a diploma not a degree and is there any further opportunities after doing this course like degree/ management. so could you please suggest me that which course is good for me after going through my profile as far as career and job opportunities are concerned.
Thanks & Regards
Ashish Ahuja
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Living Expenses
The diploma is just a piece of paper. It does not get you a job anywhere.
Go to a school where it is cheaper to live or any other reason.
Maybe you would be interested in BCIT because there are lots of Indian immigrants around Vancouver so you could easily find a social scene with some people with similar backgrounds.
It is you that gets hired, not the degree. Be prepared to be out there with many many other people with the same diploma going after the same jobs.
Also be prepared to be competing with locals who were born in Canada and can work here without dealing with Visas and other issues foreigners have to deal with.
I would be prepared to move anywhere in the country. A lot of grads do one loop around the city there school was is and declare there are no jobs.
Go to a school where it is cheaper to live or any other reason.
Maybe you would be interested in BCIT because there are lots of Indian immigrants around Vancouver so you could easily find a social scene with some people with similar backgrounds.
It is you that gets hired, not the degree. Be prepared to be out there with many many other people with the same diploma going after the same jobs.
Also be prepared to be competing with locals who were born in Canada and can work here without dealing with Visas and other issues foreigners have to deal with.
I would be prepared to move anywhere in the country. A lot of grads do one loop around the city there school was is and declare there are no jobs.
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Is age 39 too late? Maybe not. Pilot or AME?
No it is not too late, unless you expect to make it to the left seat on a B777 maximizing your income.
Think of your aviation career as climbing several ladders. Your first job, you will start at the bottom of the first ladder, the lowest rung. Everyone who started at that airline before you, is higher up the ladder, everyone who started at that airline after you is below you on the same ladder.
As you climb that ladder, you get better and better jobs and pay. Eventually you will be high enough on the ladder (seniority list) to move to the left seat. Eventually you will be high enough on the seniority list to move to the bigger aircraft (make more money)
The only way for you to climb the ladder is when someone above you, retires or leaves for other reasons.
If you decide to move to another airline (more chances of flying heavier equipment) you start the process all over again. You must start at the bottom of that company's list and begin the climb to the best jobs and pay.
Also entry level jobs are notoriously poorly paid, and each time to move to another airline, you start at the bottom of the pay scale. At y our age you may have responsibilities that do not permit you to reduce your family's income by starting over at the airlines.
The problem with starting at 39, and with the mandatory age 60 retirement (at my former airline) there is not enough time to climb the seniority list to make the big dollars.
If this is not your ambition ( to make it into the left seat of the biggest aircraft in the fleet and earn the biggest salary) then by all means, you can start at any age.
The younger you are, the better your chances of making it to the top of the seniority list earning the best salary and bidding the best routes.
This is an oversimplification of the process but gives a new entrant some idea what you will face.
For AME, the situation is completely different. Seniority applies too. You are still young enough at 39 to be attractive to companies and can earn a living wage.
I retired recently and sent out several resumes with not a single response. With 38 years experience in the trade, and 8 different endorsements, my age seems to be an impediment to even getting an interview.
Good luck.
Think of your aviation career as climbing several ladders. Your first job, you will start at the bottom of the first ladder, the lowest rung. Everyone who started at that airline before you, is higher up the ladder, everyone who started at that airline after you is below you on the same ladder.
As you climb that ladder, you get better and better jobs and pay. Eventually you will be high enough on the ladder (seniority list) to move to the left seat. Eventually you will be high enough on the seniority list to move to the bigger aircraft (make more money)
The only way for you to climb the ladder is when someone above you, retires or leaves for other reasons.
If you decide to move to another airline (more chances of flying heavier equipment) you start the process all over again. You must start at the bottom of that company's list and begin the climb to the best jobs and pay.
Also entry level jobs are notoriously poorly paid, and each time to move to another airline, you start at the bottom of the pay scale. At y our age you may have responsibilities that do not permit you to reduce your family's income by starting over at the airlines.
The problem with starting at 39, and with the mandatory age 60 retirement (at my former airline) there is not enough time to climb the seniority list to make the big dollars.
If this is not your ambition ( to make it into the left seat of the biggest aircraft in the fleet and earn the biggest salary) then by all means, you can start at any age.
The younger you are, the better your chances of making it to the top of the seniority list earning the best salary and bidding the best routes.
This is an oversimplification of the process but gives a new entrant some idea what you will face.
For AME, the situation is completely different. Seniority applies too. You are still young enough at 39 to be attractive to companies and can earn a living wage.
I retired recently and sent out several resumes with not a single response. With 38 years experience in the trade, and 8 different endorsements, my age seems to be an impediment to even getting an interview.
Good luck.
Last edited by Flatface; 9th Sep 2012 at 15:33.
