The right to work in Canada...
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The right to work in Canada...
Hey All,
I am a charter pilot from the US, looking into converting my ATP license to the Canadian equivalent and then apply with a regional/major carrier. I'm looking for information on how to fulfill the "Must have the right to work here" requirement.
I had a Canadian passenger yesterday that told me that all I have to do is apply for a 'skilled workers' work visa, and it should be no problem (it had something to do with the treaty between the US and Canada). He also told me that Pilots are on the list of 'skilled jobs' approved by the Canadian government. Is this true? I would assume that if this is not true, I would have to marry a Canadian girl to obtain dual citizenship, or "the right to work" in Canada.
I am having a hard time locating information on this matter, and I am asking for help, and for someone to steer me in the right direction. I appreciate any and all factual information.
Laxrox
I am a charter pilot from the US, looking into converting my ATP license to the Canadian equivalent and then apply with a regional/major carrier. I'm looking for information on how to fulfill the "Must have the right to work here" requirement.
I had a Canadian passenger yesterday that told me that all I have to do is apply for a 'skilled workers' work visa, and it should be no problem (it had something to do with the treaty between the US and Canada). He also told me that Pilots are on the list of 'skilled jobs' approved by the Canadian government. Is this true? I would assume that if this is not true, I would have to marry a Canadian girl to obtain dual citizenship, or "the right to work" in Canada.
I am having a hard time locating information on this matter, and I am asking for help, and for someone to steer me in the right direction. I appreciate any and all factual information.
Laxrox
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Re the rt to work in Canada
The US and Canada have a reciprocol agreement when it comes to ATPLs, which makes it easier to obtain the other country's license without having to surrender your current license (from what I understand).
Transport Canada has information regarding their requirements. You will need a Canadian medical beforehand but I believe there are AMEs in the US who can also issue Canadian medicals.
As far as the Skilled Worker Visa, if it is true that pilots are included, I would like to know as well because I went through Migration Canada (a website that I do not know how legit it is) and took their online test which then said I did not qualify...even though I am a corporate pilot flying as a captain and have six type ratings...yadda yadda yadda.
So, if you find anything else out, please post!
Transport Canada has information regarding their requirements. You will need a Canadian medical beforehand but I believe there are AMEs in the US who can also issue Canadian medicals.
As far as the Skilled Worker Visa, if it is true that pilots are included, I would like to know as well because I went through Migration Canada (a website that I do not know how legit it is) and took their online test which then said I did not qualify...even though I am a corporate pilot flying as a captain and have six type ratings...yadda yadda yadda.
So, if you find anything else out, please post!
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I went on the same website, and I don't qualify either. I'm an ATP with only 1 type rating, but still, we both have the same basic qualifications. I'm hoping for some good, informative responses too...
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Right to Work in Canada...or not....
READ:
Is my application eligible for processing?
In order for your application to be eligible for processing, you must either:
* have an offer of arranged employment, OR
* be a foreign national living legally in Canada for one year as a temporary foreign worker or an international student, OR
* be a skilled worker who has at least one year of experience in one or more of the following occupations:
0111: Financial Managers
0213: Computer and Information Systems Managers
0311: Managers in Health Care
0631: Restaurant and Food Service Managers
0632: Accommodation Service Managers
0711: Construction Managers
1111: Financial Auditors and Accountants
2113: Geologists, Geochemists and Geophysicists
2143: Mining Engineers
2144: Geological Engineers
2145: Petroleum Engineers
3111: Specialist Physicians
3112: General Practitioners and Family Physicians
3141: Audiologists and Speech Language Pathologists
3143: Occupational Therapists
3142: Physiotherapists
3151: Head Nurses and Supervisors
3152: Registered Nurses
3215: Medical Radiation Technologists
3233: Licensed Practical Nurses
4121: University Professors
4131: College and Other Vocational Instructors
6241: Chefs
6242: Cooks
7213: Contractors and Supervisors, Pipefitting Trades
7215: Contractors and Supervisors, Carpentry Trades
7217: Contractors and Supervisors, Heavy Construction Equipment Crews
7241: Electricians (Except Industrial and Power System)
7242: Industrial Electricians
7251: Plumbers
7252: Steamfitters, Pipe fitters and Sprinkler System Installers
7265: Welders and Related Machine Operators
7312: Heavy-Duty Equipment Mechanics
7371: Crane Operators
7372: Drillers and Blasters – Surface Mining, Quarrying and Construction
8221: Supervisors, Mining and Quarrying
8222: Supervisors, Oil and Gas Drilling and Service
9212: Supervisors, Petroleum, Gas and Chemical Processing and Utilities
Unless you meet all the criteria above, you'll be banging your head against the proverbial wall.
Canada is teeming with Canadian born and trained pilots. Some of our ladies and gentlemen are highly experience, many are graduating from many of our fine aviation colleges and flight schools. All of these people are vying for positions within our Canadian environment.
You can convert your FAA ATPL to Canadian documents, if you wish, however; at the end of the day, you will be standing in line at the very back, as Canadian talent is moved in front of you, just as it would happen to a Canadian pilot, applying south of the border.
Is my application eligible for processing?
In order for your application to be eligible for processing, you must either:
* have an offer of arranged employment, OR
* be a foreign national living legally in Canada for one year as a temporary foreign worker or an international student, OR
* be a skilled worker who has at least one year of experience in one or more of the following occupations:
0111: Financial Managers
0213: Computer and Information Systems Managers
0311: Managers in Health Care
0631: Restaurant and Food Service Managers
0632: Accommodation Service Managers
0711: Construction Managers
1111: Financial Auditors and Accountants
2113: Geologists, Geochemists and Geophysicists
2143: Mining Engineers
2144: Geological Engineers
2145: Petroleum Engineers
3111: Specialist Physicians
3112: General Practitioners and Family Physicians
3141: Audiologists and Speech Language Pathologists
3143: Occupational Therapists
3142: Physiotherapists
3151: Head Nurses and Supervisors
3152: Registered Nurses
3215: Medical Radiation Technologists
3233: Licensed Practical Nurses
4121: University Professors
4131: College and Other Vocational Instructors
6241: Chefs
6242: Cooks
7213: Contractors and Supervisors, Pipefitting Trades
7215: Contractors and Supervisors, Carpentry Trades
7217: Contractors and Supervisors, Heavy Construction Equipment Crews
7241: Electricians (Except Industrial and Power System)
7242: Industrial Electricians
7251: Plumbers
7252: Steamfitters, Pipe fitters and Sprinkler System Installers
7265: Welders and Related Machine Operators
7312: Heavy-Duty Equipment Mechanics
7371: Crane Operators
7372: Drillers and Blasters – Surface Mining, Quarrying and Construction
8221: Supervisors, Mining and Quarrying
8222: Supervisors, Oil and Gas Drilling and Service
9212: Supervisors, Petroleum, Gas and Chemical Processing and Utilities
Unless you meet all the criteria above, you'll be banging your head against the proverbial wall.
Canada is teeming with Canadian born and trained pilots. Some of our ladies and gentlemen are highly experience, many are graduating from many of our fine aviation colleges and flight schools. All of these people are vying for positions within our Canadian environment.
You can convert your FAA ATPL to Canadian documents, if you wish, however; at the end of the day, you will be standing in line at the very back, as Canadian talent is moved in front of you, just as it would happen to a Canadian pilot, applying south of the border.
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many are graduating from many of our fine aviation colleges and flight schools. All of these people are vying for positions within our Canadian environment.
Are you suggesting that a graduate from one of Canada's aviation colleges or flight schools are capable of competing with a high time airline pilot for a position as a pilot on a Jet?
Are you suggesting that a graduate from one of Canada's aviation colleges or flight schools are capable of competing with a high time airline pilot for a position as a pilot on a Jet?
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For me, it's simple.
Anyone can 'convert' their licence. Whether it's Canadian to FAA or FAA to Canadian. In fact, the JAA and Transport Canada have recently signed an agreement to accomodate the conversion of licences. We're just waiting for some boffins in Ottawa to sign it into law.
It's about immigration not pilot qualification.
Can an individual immigrate or not? If he/she can, then "the right to live and work in Canada" is a done deal. Regardless of ones professional qualifications.
You're lucky you can immigrate to Canada. We can't immigrate to the U.S. (check the list of eligible countries with your INS) Unless, of course, you are one of the eligible professionals and according to the INS, pilots aren't professionals. At least they aren't mentioned on their list of eligible professionals. Maybe if we hadn't burned down the White House back when, the Americans wouldn't have held a grudge for so long?
If Canadian pilots can't work in the U.S. then I for one, don't want U.S. pilots working in Canada. The same goes for our JAA buddies. Until all are treated equally on the world stage and the licences are 'accepted' by all 'signatories', what's ours is ours and the jobs in Canada are for Canadians.
Good luck though.
Anyone can 'convert' their licence. Whether it's Canadian to FAA or FAA to Canadian. In fact, the JAA and Transport Canada have recently signed an agreement to accomodate the conversion of licences. We're just waiting for some boffins in Ottawa to sign it into law.
It's about immigration not pilot qualification.
Can an individual immigrate or not? If he/she can, then "the right to live and work in Canada" is a done deal. Regardless of ones professional qualifications.
You're lucky you can immigrate to Canada. We can't immigrate to the U.S. (check the list of eligible countries with your INS) Unless, of course, you are one of the eligible professionals and according to the INS, pilots aren't professionals. At least they aren't mentioned on their list of eligible professionals. Maybe if we hadn't burned down the White House back when, the Americans wouldn't have held a grudge for so long?
If Canadian pilots can't work in the U.S. then I for one, don't want U.S. pilots working in Canada. The same goes for our JAA buddies. Until all are treated equally on the world stage and the licences are 'accepted' by all 'signatories', what's ours is ours and the jobs in Canada are for Canadians.
Good luck though.
Last edited by Willie Everlearn; 4th Apr 2009 at 13:34.
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Don't worry with any type of regulation in Canada....it's a Joke, a real Joke!!!
Just look at Sunwing who are using ''cheap'' labor pilot from Germany to operate their flight.....without any impunity from the gouvernement!
During this time, tons of young fellow Canadian pilot are on welfare waiting for a brighter sunshine!
That's the Canadian ''regulation''!
Just look at Sunwing who are using ''cheap'' labor pilot from Germany to operate their flight.....without any impunity from the gouvernement!
During this time, tons of young fellow Canadian pilot are on welfare waiting for a brighter sunshine!
That's the Canadian ''regulation''!
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* be a skilled worker who has at least one year of experience in one or more of the following occupations:
4131: College and Other Vocational Instructors
4131: College and Other Vocational Instructors
Probably a bit of a pain if you haven't already worked as one for a year, but if you really want to live here in the land of the eskimos
, it might be worth it.
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When finding a flying job in Canada is difficult on a good day, why would any Canadian pilot even think of trying to help or advise a foreign pilot on how to get a job in aviation in this country??? It's a waste of time. No legal right to live here, you have no legal right to work here. 
I have a full FAA ATPL. No legal right to live in, or work in the states. So, why ask PPRuNers how I get a job flying for an American carrier. DUH!??
No labour certification or green card, FORGET IT!!
Once he/she has the normal, legitimate immigration process completed (skip the fast track) and enters the country as a legal landed immigrant, he/she doesn't have the slightest problem getting a job in aviation in this country.
THEN, we can welcome and assist in the process. Not before.
What are some of you thinking???
I have a full FAA ATPL. No legal right to live in, or work in the states. So, why ask PPRuNers how I get a job flying for an American carrier. DUH!??
No labour certification or green card, FORGET IT!!
Once he/she has the normal, legitimate immigration process completed (skip the fast track) and enters the country as a legal landed immigrant, he/she doesn't have the slightest problem getting a job in aviation in this country.
THEN, we can welcome and assist in the process. Not before.
What are some of you thinking???
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When finding a flying job in Canada is difficult on a good day, why would any Canadian pilot even think of trying to help or advise a foreign pilot on how to get a job in aviation in this country??? It's a waste of time. No legal right to live here, you have no legal right to work here. 
I have a full FAA ATPL. No legal right to live in, or work in the states. So, why ask PPRuNers how I get a job flying for an American carrier. DUH!??
No labour certification or green card, FORGET IT!!
Once he/she has the normal, legitimate immigration process completed (skip the fast track) and enters the country as a legal landed immigrant, he/she doesn't have the slightest problem getting a job in aviation in this country.
THEN, we can welcome and assist in the process. Not before.
What are some of you thinking???
I have a full FAA ATPL. No legal right to live in, or work in the states. So, why ask PPRuNers how I get a job flying for an American carrier. DUH!??
No labour certification or green card, FORGET IT!!
Once he/she has the normal, legitimate immigration process completed (skip the fast track) and enters the country as a legal landed immigrant, he/she doesn't have the slightest problem getting a job in aviation in this country.
THEN, we can welcome and assist in the process. Not before.
What are some of you thinking???
Anyway.Some of us don't care where you come from, and welcome others with good intention into our country. If someone asks for help, and I am capable of offering input that I think is useful, then I will. Laxrox, be assured that people like the poster above are a minority (whom is likely unemployed and looking for the nearest target other than himself to direct his finger toward), and most are more than glad to help. Good luck!
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I guess there's no need for Immigration Laws, Labour Laws, or Transport Canada licencing requirements then. Silly me. What was I thinking?
Why have a Country with a constitution and certain other guarantees for its' citizenry when people like you don't even respect the basics, and what about that border?
Solo Pilot, getcher sh*t together, will ya? Wake up and smell the coffee.
I'm gainfully employed, thank you. When buddy enters the country 'according to the laws' I'm sure we can give him/her all the help he/she needs.
Gimme a break? Our labour laws protect our citizens. Not foreigners (aliens). Pretty simple concept, eh?
larox,
To answer your question, converting your licence to Canadian won't give you the right to live and work in Canada just as converting your Canadian to FAA won't give you the right to live and work in the U.S.A.. With the pilot job opportunites in the U.S. and abroad your opportunities are far greater than up here in the Great White North. Not sure why you'd consider things up here when our job market sucks. Whatever your choice, good luck.
Why have a Country with a constitution and certain other guarantees for its' citizenry when people like you don't even respect the basics, and what about that border?
Solo Pilot, getcher sh*t together, will ya? Wake up and smell the coffee.
I'm gainfully employed, thank you. When buddy enters the country 'according to the laws' I'm sure we can give him/her all the help he/she needs.
Gimme a break? Our labour laws protect our citizens. Not foreigners (aliens). Pretty simple concept, eh?
larox,
To answer your question, converting your licence to Canadian won't give you the right to live and work in Canada just as converting your Canadian to FAA won't give you the right to live and work in the U.S.A.. With the pilot job opportunites in the U.S. and abroad your opportunities are far greater than up here in the Great White North. Not sure why you'd consider things up here when our job market sucks. Whatever your choice, good luck.
Last edited by Willie Everlearn; 5th Apr 2009 at 02:55.
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Nicely Said...
'Willie', nicely said in all your posts. My sentiments completely. We've got lots of good people here in the 'North' to fill the positions and until we get the ability to freely move to other countries and take the jobs, Canadians fill the positions here.
I'll hire a low time Canadian pilot over a more experienced foreign pilot. At least a local guy can show me where Yellowknife or Cambridge Bay is.
I'll hire a low time Canadian pilot over a more experienced foreign pilot. At least a local guy can show me where Yellowknife or Cambridge Bay is.
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I'm gonna' have to agree with Willie and 777.
As much as I appreciate an experienced colleague - where ever they may come from... Canadian jobs are for Canadian pilots... just as US jobs are for Americans...
As for the Sunwing rumours... if they are true and they aren't Europeans holding dual citizenship working those spots then it's a travesty. Sunwing should be ashamed and the personnel in Immigration Canada who approved Sunwing's "shortage of type-rated nationals" argument should be slapped.
As much as I appreciate an experienced colleague - where ever they may come from... Canadian jobs are for Canadian pilots... just as US jobs are for Americans...
As for the Sunwing rumours... if they are true and they aren't Europeans holding dual citizenship working those spots then it's a travesty. Sunwing should be ashamed and the personnel in Immigration Canada who approved Sunwing's "shortage of type-rated nationals" argument should be slapped.
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It's always worth looking at the past to find reason in the future. 
Some of us licenced Canadian citizens "with" a B737 type rating may simply have no desire to work with/for certain individuals who seem to constantly show up at places like Sunwing, Royal, Zoom, Canjet, etc., who are nothing more than 'born again' carriers anyway, with different names and paint jobs. Who amongst us believes that Canadian Labour officials have even the slightest clue about aviation in this country and who's available to take a 737 job? Isn't it easier to listen to the carrier's HR department than actually get up off your lazy arse and check it out?
I'm sure Sunwing needs qualified and experienced pilots. But, whomever they look for to hire, he/she should at least be Canadian!
Bottom line. Who cares? The future of aviation in Canada is overseas.
Last one out turn off the lights.
best of luck to you all!
happily and gainfully employed,
Willie
Some of us licenced Canadian citizens "with" a B737 type rating may simply have no desire to work with/for certain individuals who seem to constantly show up at places like Sunwing, Royal, Zoom, Canjet, etc., who are nothing more than 'born again' carriers anyway, with different names and paint jobs. Who amongst us believes that Canadian Labour officials have even the slightest clue about aviation in this country and who's available to take a 737 job? Isn't it easier to listen to the carrier's HR department than actually get up off your lazy arse and check it out?
I'm sure Sunwing needs qualified and experienced pilots. But, whomever they look for to hire, he/she should at least be Canadian!
Bottom line. Who cares? The future of aviation in Canada is overseas.
Last one out turn off the lights.
best of luck to you all!
happily and gainfully employed,
Willie
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WILLIE
You are right, I spent the last 20 years overseas. I have flown several types of modern equipment that most Canadians only dream of and have lived in some of the most wonderful places on the planet. Indeed the future of aviation is overseas for Canadians.
You are right, I spent the last 20 years overseas. I have flown several types of modern equipment that most Canadians only dream of and have lived in some of the most wonderful places on the planet. Indeed the future of aviation is overseas for Canadians.
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How convenient I'm a cute, single Canadian girl!
Seriously, though, I would do your homework before you put too much effort into heading north.
I'm sure it's the same in the US, but having a few pals who fly for the commercials, it's a tough, tough go here these days. More than a couple have left the industry altogether.
The morale at Big Red is in the tank, they are on the verge of bankruptcy protection, contract negotiations and I'm quite certain that they aren't hiring at all right now. WestJet, while a more profitable organization, is having their own issues.
I'm making the assumption that you are looking for something with one of the big guys, but if you haven't visited www.avcanada.ca , you might want to consider popping in there to get a feel for the situation up here. (Not a ton of discussion here on the Canadian aviation landscape, and even the avcan forums aren't terribly active).
Seriously, though, I would do your homework before you put too much effort into heading north.
I'm sure it's the same in the US, but having a few pals who fly for the commercials, it's a tough, tough go here these days. More than a couple have left the industry altogether.
The morale at Big Red is in the tank, they are on the verge of bankruptcy protection, contract negotiations and I'm quite certain that they aren't hiring at all right now. WestJet, while a more profitable organization, is having their own issues.
I'm making the assumption that you are looking for something with one of the big guys, but if you haven't visited www.avcanada.ca , you might want to consider popping in there to get a feel for the situation up here. (Not a ton of discussion here on the Canadian aviation landscape, and even the avcan forums aren't terribly active).
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Homework...
Well, if he was doing any homework, he'd find that there are quite a few jobs, daoun saouth (southern twang). Have a look at the job boards down there and if WE had a green card and right to work down there, we could flood the market with good experienced pilots.
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I have to agree with 777 and YHZ. I am Canadian going to school in US. No one would look at my resumes unless I have a green card. IS THIS FAIR? IT IS. If you have to keep your market with more US pilots why can't Canada keep the right for Canadian pilots?
Like Willie said last one out turn off the light.
CM6966
Like Willie said last one out turn off the light.
CM6966
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So let me get this straight...the consensus is that Canada is for Canadian pilots and US is for American pilots etc... yet in the same breath you say the future is overseas?? What to fly in another country? Surely going by your own logic, the country you go to has it's own nationals wanting to fly and you are taking their jobs?? Give me a break please.
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Futures in Aviation...
Well actually, you're partially correct, Secret'. Yes, Canadian aviation is for Canadian pilots, or at least it should be. We have more than enough qualified pilots inside this country to look after our own operations; and then some!
Having worked in the contract industry for many years, I can tell you that if it weren't for skilled foreign pilots in this world, many countries would not have an aviation industry. One only has to have a look at Emirates, Etihad, Qatar and numerous Indian airlines to understand this one. Many countries have not had the benefit of people within the workforce with enough skills, to move into the airline enviornment the way that foreign pilots have. The benefit of having a reasonably good aviation industry in Canada is the fact that this country produces some of the finest pilots in the world and operators worldwide have had the benefit of their expertise.
Having worked in the contract industry for many years, I can tell you that if it weren't for skilled foreign pilots in this world, many countries would not have an aviation industry. One only has to have a look at Emirates, Etihad, Qatar and numerous Indian airlines to understand this one. Many countries have not had the benefit of people within the workforce with enough skills, to move into the airline enviornment the way that foreign pilots have. The benefit of having a reasonably good aviation industry in Canada is the fact that this country produces some of the finest pilots in the world and operators worldwide have had the benefit of their expertise.