Enerjet conditions
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Enerjet conditions
Saw Enerjet doing alot of PR. Does anyone know what the pay is for Captains and FO's? How many planes are they looking to have? Is there a profit sharing scheme? Is the only base Calgary or are they planning to have other ones? Thanks for any info.
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Thanks ODGuy checked it out, but there still remains the question of what the pay is? Seems they are not taking Captains but FO/Co Captain till they add more aircrafts. The Captains they have now are all past Westjet coming in with the same salary. If you will excuse my ignorance what is Westjet paying senior guys? What is Enerjet paying FO's?
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It would be interesting to know why a WJ Captain would leave the security of WJ for a startup (with one aircraft) in light of economic downturn which only increases the potential for a startup failure?
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It would be interesting to know why a WJ Captain would leave the security of WJ for a startup (with one aircraft) in light of economic downturn which only increases the potential for a startup failure?
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Any word from anyone about wages there? Ballpark? Skippers on 75k? 85k? 100k?
I think they're gonna make a go of it and are carrying that mentality forward that made WJ great before they became a high cost carrier.
I think they're gonna make a go of it and are carrying that mentality forward that made WJ great before they became a high cost carrier.
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Hey, a great company compared to AC and american carriers. BUT they abandoned their low cost structure with entry into the world's most expensive airport (YYZ) and other major airports, going toe to toe with AC. As a pax, check out their ticket costs, on par or more than AC in a lot of cases now, not many deals flying around anymore.
They are a major now and will be under attack by smaller co's that go back to the basic model with reduced costs, a la Enerjet. If you dispute that, your disputing what made WJ so successful in the first place.
I guess I should've said high"er" cost carrier, than it used to be. Apologies.
They are a major now and will be under attack by smaller co's that go back to the basic model with reduced costs, a la Enerjet. If you dispute that, your disputing what made WJ so successful in the first place.
I guess I should've said high"er" cost carrier, than it used to be. Apologies.
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I think you are mixing up the concept.
Being a "low cost carrier" refers to the COST structure, not the FARE structure.
Any airline can be a "low fare" airline. The moment a marketing department at a legacy airline decides to match fares of a LCC, it becomes a "low fare" airline. The results speak for themselves.
If you recall, every sched airline in Canada that has tried to match WJ's FARES since 1996 has failed/collapsed/merged/voluntarily shutdown and then failed, (CanJet1 , CanJet2, Vistajet, Royal, C3000, JetsGo, Canadian, Roots, Harmony, Greyhound etc), or has had to go into CCAA. There have been NO exceptions.
As it stands today, even with leather seats, live TV and operations into YYZ, Westjet's costs to fly a seat a mile, standardized to a 900 mile average flight length remain about 40% below anyone they compete with.
The other proof is in the pudding. No one makes the kind of margins Westjet makes in Canada. No one is even close. That is why they keep on expanding and expanding, which continues to drive down their fixed cost base, causing the cost gap to get wider and wider and wider.
Being a "low cost carrier" refers to the COST structure, not the FARE structure.
Any airline can be a "low fare" airline. The moment a marketing department at a legacy airline decides to match fares of a LCC, it becomes a "low fare" airline. The results speak for themselves.
If you recall, every sched airline in Canada that has tried to match WJ's FARES since 1996 has failed/collapsed/merged/voluntarily shutdown and then failed, (CanJet1 , CanJet2, Vistajet, Royal, C3000, JetsGo, Canadian, Roots, Harmony, Greyhound etc), or has had to go into CCAA. There have been NO exceptions.
As it stands today, even with leather seats, live TV and operations into YYZ, Westjet's costs to fly a seat a mile, standardized to a 900 mile average flight length remain about 40% below anyone they compete with.
The other proof is in the pudding. No one makes the kind of margins Westjet makes in Canada. No one is even close. That is why they keep on expanding and expanding, which continues to drive down their fixed cost base, causing the cost gap to get wider and wider and wider.
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You MUST be joking, or I think you have NO concept. Please tell me you are not saying that Westjet had ANYTHING at all to do with the demise of Canadian or C3000...
You sir, are a little misled.
You sir, are a little misled.
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Hi folks, thought I would have a look at enerjet's website (www.enerjet.ca) - looks good. But something bothers me about a company that states they are a B737-700NG operators - yet their main center piece looks like a B767 with winglets !!
I have seen the B757 conversion - not the B767.
I have seen the B757 conversion - not the B767.
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nalid,
just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. A quick search on google and voila. Aviation Partners Boeing supplies B767-300ER with winglets since July this year.
http://www.aviationpartnersboeing.co....28_AAJuly.pdf
just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. A quick search on google and voila. Aviation Partners Boeing supplies B767-300ER with winglets since July this year.
http://www.aviationpartnersboeing.co....28_AAJuly.pdf
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Thanks for that - I have heard of the B757 conversion as I said, cool that it can go on the B767.
But I guess my main point is 'Does Enerjet operate the B767' or are they messing with photos?
Quite unprofessional if they can't manage to get the correct aircraft on their own website!
But I guess my main point is 'Does Enerjet operate the B767' or are they messing with photos?
Quite unprofessional if they can't manage to get the correct aircraft on their own website!
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I don't think it's that serious an oversight, as I am sure many on here had to take a very careful look before realizing it wasn't a 737NG. I know I did. That's really immaterial, especially since one "Bus" looks pretty much like another these days.
More importantly, I'd like to know if anyone reading this has had a call from them and if they've only restricted themselves to contacting NG-typed candidates.
Thanks
More importantly, I'd like to know if anyone reading this has had a call from them and if they've only restricted themselves to contacting NG-typed candidates.
Thanks
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WJ completely undermined yields / revenues in Western Canada, the only area Canadi>n had been consistently profitable prior to 1996, and whose profits underwrote the money losing operations in central and eastern Canada + transborder, Latin America and pretty much everywhere else.
If you recall, $350 fares got slashed to $59 on Alberta-BC and Alberta Saskatchewan, $250 fares got cut to $29 on intra-Alberta and $450 fares from Alberta to Manitoba dropped to $79.
Revenues completely collapsed as Canadi>n had no choice but to match fares on all of its western capacity to stay competitive with WJ's small, but rapidly expanding capacity. Any let would have caused WJ to have expanded even faster than they already had.
No one likes to admit they got spanked in front of the hometown crowd,, but that's precisely what happened.
As for C3000, Lecky and Kinnear became obsessed with WJ's growth and profitability and the huge wealth that was created when WJ went public. As you recall, C3000 had been stagnant for years with 8-11 aircraft. They wanted a piece of the action to compete with WJ for the #2 airline after Canadian went banco and who's carcass was bought up by AC.
Lecky and Kinnear engineered the buyout of CJ and Royal and tried to cobble together something that could compete with WJ. The over expansion failed miserably, with 9/11 and Tango not helping the cause, though WJ had to deal with 9/11 and Tango at the same time, and remained profitable and growing at 30% rates.
It is not a coincidence that WJ has done what it's done over the past 13 years and left a trail of shutdowns, failed mergers and CCAA filings for virtually every other sched carrier of any consequence in it's wake.
Anyone considering a career as a commercial pilot or thinking about relocating back to Canada should pay attention to the big picture if they want a long lasting career with an airline in Canada, because history typically repeats itself.
The prospect of the three best run, most profitable, fastest growing, most cash rich airlines in North America, Volaris, Southwest and WestJet, hooking up will make the prospects of sched success in Canada for anyone else appearing on the scene to be very daunting, unless they can dramatically lower their costs to a level at least 25% lower than WJ's.
I can't see that happening. Can you?
If you recall, $350 fares got slashed to $59 on Alberta-BC and Alberta Saskatchewan, $250 fares got cut to $29 on intra-Alberta and $450 fares from Alberta to Manitoba dropped to $79.
Revenues completely collapsed as Canadi>n had no choice but to match fares on all of its western capacity to stay competitive with WJ's small, but rapidly expanding capacity. Any let would have caused WJ to have expanded even faster than they already had.
No one likes to admit they got spanked in front of the hometown crowd,, but that's precisely what happened.
As for C3000, Lecky and Kinnear became obsessed with WJ's growth and profitability and the huge wealth that was created when WJ went public. As you recall, C3000 had been stagnant for years with 8-11 aircraft. They wanted a piece of the action to compete with WJ for the #2 airline after Canadian went banco and who's carcass was bought up by AC.
Lecky and Kinnear engineered the buyout of CJ and Royal and tried to cobble together something that could compete with WJ. The over expansion failed miserably, with 9/11 and Tango not helping the cause, though WJ had to deal with 9/11 and Tango at the same time, and remained profitable and growing at 30% rates.
It is not a coincidence that WJ has done what it's done over the past 13 years and left a trail of shutdowns, failed mergers and CCAA filings for virtually every other sched carrier of any consequence in it's wake.
Anyone considering a career as a commercial pilot or thinking about relocating back to Canada should pay attention to the big picture if they want a long lasting career with an airline in Canada, because history typically repeats itself.
The prospect of the three best run, most profitable, fastest growing, most cash rich airlines in North America, Volaris, Southwest and WestJet, hooking up will make the prospects of sched success in Canada for anyone else appearing on the scene to be very daunting, unless they can dramatically lower their costs to a level at least 25% lower than WJ's.
I can't see that happening. Can you?
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Speedboat, you're hilarious...West jet can do alot, but you can't just re-write history!
What are you smoking??!?
" Revenues completely collapsed as Canadi>n had no choice but to match fares on all of its western capacity to stay competitive with WJ's small, but rapidly expanding capacity. Any let would have caused WJ to have expanded even faster than they already had"
Wrong. Westjet had THREE aircraft in 1996, and Canadian's problems go back 20 years of competing with Air Canada...when Canadian was purchased by Air Canada, they had never officially ceased operation, and had a competing bid to be bought by Onex..Canadian and Air Canada were running half empty aircraft against each other for years before Westjet came to be. I don't care how fast Westjet expanded, they didn't have enough capacity to put Canadian out of business...they were barely a factor against an INTERNATIONAL airline....
Canadian's most profitable route was Asia, this was always the case....Why do you think Air Canada wanted those routes / rights so bad? The Asia economic downturn of 1998 had a DEVASTATING effect on Canadian's bottom line...(about the time Westjet added places like Abbotsford and Thunder Bay!)
Also, in its last few years of operation, at a bad time, Canadian Airlines extended its international route network even more in Asia, with expansion of service to Malaysia and the Philippines. At that time Canadian Airlines had the distinction of flying to more places in Asia, more often, than any other Canadian carrier.
Yeah, but it was Westjet. With their 3 planes that put the nail in the coffin!!!
You should recognize the management problems and history of mergers and competition with Air Canada, rather than spew garbage...Canadian aviation can be interesting, and we can all learn from it, as long as we don't make @$@#$ up!
As for C3000, I don't want to go there, but I think you have to respect other factors as well...like LeBlanc's crappy deal he gave on Royal was a huge factor...C3's plan was to eliminate / own Royal at any cost, and it cost them huge! Westjet wasn't as much of a factor as you state! Alot of Westjet's expansion success was rising from the ashes of 9/11, as it was 9/11 that pushed C3 over the edge...Its like your time line is all screwed up..
You can't just give Westjet all the credit for the failure of other airlines, its overly simplistic and pompous...You should, in my opinion, observe and appreciate the success of Westjet without losing sight of the big picture...
As Westjet expands, it has done an impressive job of maintaining its cost structure. However, they could never offer the same fares now as they did in their infancy, and Air Canada has also done an impressive job of keeping the pressure on...Re-inventing their cost structure even WITH all their legacy headaches...Last few times I booked AC, they were cheaper!!!!
So I wish Westjet luck as well...Maybe they'll take over the world next, and put some of the really big players out of business!
Smoke another one! Back to Enerjet! I wish them luck...
Later
What are you smoking??!?
" Revenues completely collapsed as Canadi>n had no choice but to match fares on all of its western capacity to stay competitive with WJ's small, but rapidly expanding capacity. Any let would have caused WJ to have expanded even faster than they already had"
Wrong. Westjet had THREE aircraft in 1996, and Canadian's problems go back 20 years of competing with Air Canada...when Canadian was purchased by Air Canada, they had never officially ceased operation, and had a competing bid to be bought by Onex..Canadian and Air Canada were running half empty aircraft against each other for years before Westjet came to be. I don't care how fast Westjet expanded, they didn't have enough capacity to put Canadian out of business...they were barely a factor against an INTERNATIONAL airline....
Canadian's most profitable route was Asia, this was always the case....Why do you think Air Canada wanted those routes / rights so bad? The Asia economic downturn of 1998 had a DEVASTATING effect on Canadian's bottom line...(about the time Westjet added places like Abbotsford and Thunder Bay!)
Also, in its last few years of operation, at a bad time, Canadian Airlines extended its international route network even more in Asia, with expansion of service to Malaysia and the Philippines. At that time Canadian Airlines had the distinction of flying to more places in Asia, more often, than any other Canadian carrier.
Yeah, but it was Westjet. With their 3 planes that put the nail in the coffin!!!
You should recognize the management problems and history of mergers and competition with Air Canada, rather than spew garbage...Canadian aviation can be interesting, and we can all learn from it, as long as we don't make @$@#$ up!
As for C3000, I don't want to go there, but I think you have to respect other factors as well...like LeBlanc's crappy deal he gave on Royal was a huge factor...C3's plan was to eliminate / own Royal at any cost, and it cost them huge! Westjet wasn't as much of a factor as you state! Alot of Westjet's expansion success was rising from the ashes of 9/11, as it was 9/11 that pushed C3 over the edge...Its like your time line is all screwed up..
You can't just give Westjet all the credit for the failure of other airlines, its overly simplistic and pompous...You should, in my opinion, observe and appreciate the success of Westjet without losing sight of the big picture...
As Westjet expands, it has done an impressive job of maintaining its cost structure. However, they could never offer the same fares now as they did in their infancy, and Air Canada has also done an impressive job of keeping the pressure on...Re-inventing their cost structure even WITH all their legacy headaches...Last few times I booked AC, they were cheaper!!!!
So I wish Westjet luck as well...Maybe they'll take over the world next, and put some of the really big players out of business!
Smoke another one! Back to Enerjet! I wish them luck...
Later
Last edited by 4-Daned; 4th Jan 2009 at 21:30.