Which Canadian Carrier Would You Wanna Fly For?
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WRC.
thats certainly an interesting statement you make, that you have divided "Canadian" expats from "normal" expats? are you suggesting that as Canadian expats we are in some way abnormal?
I think your survey group (10) may be a little small to make a qualified conclusion mate.
I can probably list, amongst people I have met, flown with, worked with, had a beer with, and know of, well over 100 Canadian expats, and from this group I have no idea how many may have "failed" an AC or WJ interview, but I can certainly list a great deal of whom were "failed" by their companies.
The very reason they are now expat is because of the demise of Nationair, Canadian, C3, etc.
In other words they were victims of the industry, the Canadian industry.
And guess what, the "normal" expats you mention, are generally victims of the exact same scenario, from whatever country they initially called home.
So, please for those of us you consider abnormal, could you please elaborate on just what makes us so?
thats certainly an interesting statement you make, that you have divided "Canadian" expats from "normal" expats? are you suggesting that as Canadian expats we are in some way abnormal?
I think your survey group (10) may be a little small to make a qualified conclusion mate.
I can probably list, amongst people I have met, flown with, worked with, had a beer with, and know of, well over 100 Canadian expats, and from this group I have no idea how many may have "failed" an AC or WJ interview, but I can certainly list a great deal of whom were "failed" by their companies.
The very reason they are now expat is because of the demise of Nationair, Canadian, C3, etc.
In other words they were victims of the industry, the Canadian industry.
And guess what, the "normal" expats you mention, are generally victims of the exact same scenario, from whatever country they initially called home.
So, please for those of us you consider abnormal, could you please elaborate on just what makes us so?
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Then there's the the fact I work alongside several former Air Canada pilots, who voluntarily left to work overseas. Blows a large hole in the "rejected Air Canada and WestJet pilots are the expats" myth lol. And I can tell you, I know a few more than ten. heheh if this is "hiding out" it's a pretty deluxe hideout!
Listen, I'm glad to hear people passionately defend Canada and their way of life. If you read my previous post carefully, I did say I LOVE my country! But the aviation industry is pitiful there, and the tax regime? Fuggediboutit. Polarus is correct...I would rather take the $$ from overseas work and retire early in Canada...but how anyone does it is up to them.
Azure, no feelings hurt. When I said money offshore, I meant the money I earn overseas. I don't intend to pay taxes for income I earned while not even living there! But of course when I return I will be paying through the nose again, like everyone else.
And bunkhog, I'm pretty much the other end of the spectrum from the silver spoon set. Simply, I have been afforded an amazing opportunity, professionally and personally, and I ain't gonna apologize for it, which I realize is un-Canadian. A week touristing in Rome led you to believe in Canada's overwhelming superiority? Come on.
Anyway, this is getting a bit silly. I still have many close friends flying in Canada. We each envy each other's advantages, and enjoy our unique benefits. I DO NOT subscribe to the "grass is always greener". I only wanted to point out there's more than Canadian grass out there...
Listen, I'm glad to hear people passionately defend Canada and their way of life. If you read my previous post carefully, I did say I LOVE my country! But the aviation industry is pitiful there, and the tax regime? Fuggediboutit. Polarus is correct...I would rather take the $$ from overseas work and retire early in Canada...but how anyone does it is up to them.
Azure, no feelings hurt. When I said money offshore, I meant the money I earn overseas. I don't intend to pay taxes for income I earned while not even living there! But of course when I return I will be paying through the nose again, like everyone else.
And bunkhog, I'm pretty much the other end of the spectrum from the silver spoon set. Simply, I have been afforded an amazing opportunity, professionally and personally, and I ain't gonna apologize for it, which I realize is un-Canadian. A week touristing in Rome led you to believe in Canada's overwhelming superiority? Come on.
Anyway, this is getting a bit silly. I still have many close friends flying in Canada. We each envy each other's advantages, and enjoy our unique benefits. I DO NOT subscribe to the "grass is always greener". I only wanted to point out there's more than Canadian grass out there...
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This is quite amusing.
Remember Paul Martin?
Before any Canadian gets to patriotic about paying taxes don't forget good old Paul and where he put his assets.
Canada is just another quazi socialist country bordering on third world as far as government goes.
Best decision I ever made was to fly off shore for my last decade in the flying game.
Remember Paul Martin?
Before any Canadian gets to patriotic about paying taxes don't forget good old Paul and where he put his assets.
Canada is just another quazi socialist country bordering on third world as far as government goes.
Best decision I ever made was to fly off shore for my last decade in the flying game.
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i left Canada before WJ existed, and at the time AC were laying off pilots (4th year). i havent been 'interviewed' by either company......
after leaving, although i hadnt flown a jet yet, 4 years later i found myself in the left seat of a 757, Ive been with the same company for ten years and now in the left seat of a 767. the 787's start arriving in Feb 2009.
so what does that make me? i would suggest there are plenty of grown up 'Canadian' pilots throughout the world living the dream. why? because Canada's aviation industry just wasnt up to it, is it now? i dont know i left in 1993.
however when i chat with my buddies back 'home' and they talk about.........militant unions, arbitrations about seniority lists, pilots paying for their own type ratings, airlines going bankrupt, pilots working in costco, over long duty days, threat of strike action, wanting to leave AC because they hate it etc etc, i would suggest that for me it was the right decision to leave. im happy, the family's happy.
i like Canada, i have a house there, we visit. when we do visit its with our eyes wide open. i would suggest that having lived in another part of the world it opens your eyes.
dont knock the guys who've been brave enough to take a risk. you might find it wasnt about the money or because they werent good enough to work for what you perceive as a 'good' company
good luck to all!
PS did i mention the beers better over here!
sorry to get off topic....... i wouldnt work for any of them
after leaving, although i hadnt flown a jet yet, 4 years later i found myself in the left seat of a 757, Ive been with the same company for ten years and now in the left seat of a 767. the 787's start arriving in Feb 2009.
so what does that make me? i would suggest there are plenty of grown up 'Canadian' pilots throughout the world living the dream. why? because Canada's aviation industry just wasnt up to it, is it now? i dont know i left in 1993.
however when i chat with my buddies back 'home' and they talk about.........militant unions, arbitrations about seniority lists, pilots paying for their own type ratings, airlines going bankrupt, pilots working in costco, over long duty days, threat of strike action, wanting to leave AC because they hate it etc etc, i would suggest that for me it was the right decision to leave. im happy, the family's happy.
i like Canada, i have a house there, we visit. when we do visit its with our eyes wide open. i would suggest that having lived in another part of the world it opens your eyes.
dont knock the guys who've been brave enough to take a risk. you might find it wasnt about the money or because they werent good enough to work for what you perceive as a 'good' company
good luck to all!
PS did i mention the beers better over here!
sorry to get off topic....... i wouldnt work for any of them
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[QUOTEAzure, no feelings hurt. When I said money offshore, I meant the money I earn overseas. I don't intend to pay taxes for income I earned while not even living there! But of course when I return I will be paying through the nose again, like everyone else.
][/QUOTE]
Now that statement I completly understand, and I do have to apologize for my snarkyness but as I said it's tax time and I have a low boiling point these days. New budget out today and I can't help but think that unless we hire a high priced accountant to do some majic, next year will be even worse.
][/QUOTE]
Now that statement I completly understand, and I do have to apologize for my snarkyness but as I said it's tax time and I have a low boiling point these days. New budget out today and I can't help but think that unless we hire a high priced accountant to do some majic, next year will be even worse.
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Boys...it just comes down to what you want in life. YOU have to decide what lifestyle you want to have. Canada is a great place to fly and we have good companies to work for here, not perfect, but good. We have lots of variety here and you can be as local or as international as you want. The trade off for the quality of life in Canada is that pay dosen't compare to a few other companies out there in the world.
I am a small town guy who wants to experience the world and make as much money as I can doing it. I instructed, flew the bush / arctic, corporate and now charter airline here in Canada. They all have good and bad points to them. Again it depends on what you want. I am at the point where my wife and I want to leave Canada and live somewhere to experience new adventures and cultures. I am happy with the experiences, but now I need to make some money.
Generally the equation works like this:
Canadian Aviation dosen't pay well compared to what is out there in the world but for a Canadian who loves being home it is well worth it.
International Airlines pay top dollar but your not in Kansas anymore Toto. Don't expect things to be like they were in your hometown when you go international. Unhappy wife = unhappy life! something for the married guys out there.
Don't get me wrong, there are great paying jobs here in Canada if your willing to put in the time. On the other hand, you can make top dollar at some international companies, and some don't even tax your salary.
So, really there is something out there for everyone. Just because someone is willing to work in a place they want to live in making less money than for the same flying job in another place dosen't make it bad. Neither does working for more money in another country make it a better place to be.
YOU CHOOSE...Bush, Airline, Corporate, Canada, Middle East, Hong Kong, its your life...Make of it what you will, and try not to judge others for what they decide to do.
I am a small town guy who wants to experience the world and make as much money as I can doing it. I instructed, flew the bush / arctic, corporate and now charter airline here in Canada. They all have good and bad points to them. Again it depends on what you want. I am at the point where my wife and I want to leave Canada and live somewhere to experience new adventures and cultures. I am happy with the experiences, but now I need to make some money.
Generally the equation works like this:
Canadian Aviation dosen't pay well compared to what is out there in the world but for a Canadian who loves being home it is well worth it.
International Airlines pay top dollar but your not in Kansas anymore Toto. Don't expect things to be like they were in your hometown when you go international. Unhappy wife = unhappy life! something for the married guys out there.
Don't get me wrong, there are great paying jobs here in Canada if your willing to put in the time. On the other hand, you can make top dollar at some international companies, and some don't even tax your salary.
So, really there is something out there for everyone. Just because someone is willing to work in a place they want to live in making less money than for the same flying job in another place dosen't make it bad. Neither does working for more money in another country make it a better place to be.
YOU CHOOSE...Bush, Airline, Corporate, Canada, Middle East, Hong Kong, its your life...Make of it what you will, and try not to judge others for what they decide to do.
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I'm with you on that one Flyer34... To each his own...
BTW, lots of happy people at AT and yes, the start pay is well above 40K for the first two years... I don't think we have much to envy at AC nowadays!
I take my 2600sq.ft. cottage on a wooden acre that I paid 132k over any middle eastern villa, but hey, that's my choice!
BTW, lots of happy people at AT and yes, the start pay is well above 40K for the first two years... I don't think we have much to envy at AC nowadays!
I take my 2600sq.ft. cottage on a wooden acre that I paid 132k over any middle eastern villa, but hey, that's my choice!
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So the original question was "which carrier would you wanna fly for"? What it degenerated into was a lot of whining about Canadian pilot pay and the deplorable state of the country. Basically, if you want the big bucks go elsewhere but, as for the country, there are a bloody lot of worse places to live in this world. Try answering the question and keep the Canada bashing out of it. Start a new topic if that's your big issue. As for me, after my own fair share of world travel and exposure ... I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.
Last edited by Red Mud; 24th Mar 2007 at 15:35.
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In my humble opinion Morningstar Airexpress, great company, great pay, lots of time off. But its what you make of it, do you want the cake, the cabin or a combination. I agree happy wife,happy life. That is very true, at least for me
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help to speak French only when you have to put up with the hard times ( as for a bit of understanding from the office), other then that they don't give a damn, English is well over the 50 % of pilots, and as of a few characters, most Francos don't care about the language you speak as long as your fun to work with....
That's from my drinking buddy from Transat...
good luck
That's from my drinking buddy from Transat...
good luck
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Only Two Sure Things in Life.....
As I previously said,been there,done that,got the T-shirt with Canadian companies...but no thanks. Expatting has its advantages and disadvantages with respect to the triangle but the big thing is Canadian taxes...or any taxes for that matter. Big waste of money for no services or very poor services rendered!! I agree that its not all about the money but when a city bus driver makes more money + benefits than a pilot at ZOOM for example, well then you gotta give your head a shake about the state of aviation in Canada ( no offence to bus drivers)....
Seen all your posts and I am expatting...have been for several years, and yes Canada is a GREAT place to live and raise a family but... as a pilot.....not the best of places...with all due respect to the great guys that I know who are still flying here and putting up with all the BS...my hat off to y'all.....
What it boils down to is that there are only two sure things in life....death and taxes..the first is for obvious reasons and the second, well we all have to pay taxes whether alot or very little....and as for the rest, well just go with the flow...and always remember to look at the BIG picture......
That's only my 2 Loonies worth...
Cheers,
RWTY
Seen all your posts and I am expatting...have been for several years, and yes Canada is a GREAT place to live and raise a family but... as a pilot.....not the best of places...with all due respect to the great guys that I know who are still flying here and putting up with all the BS...my hat off to y'all.....
What it boils down to is that there are only two sure things in life....death and taxes..the first is for obvious reasons and the second, well we all have to pay taxes whether alot or very little....and as for the rest, well just go with the flow...and always remember to look at the BIG picture......
That's only my 2 Loonies worth...
Cheers,
RWTY
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Guys ... my 2 loonies worth. Those of you happy in Canada and happy at your respective airlines, congratulations!!
Those of you NOT ... have a look overseas. You will miss Canada, but when the sun shines everyday you get on your boat and spend a full tank of gas playing around for about 10$. The beer is NOT better than home but Canadian beer is imported to the middle east and its about the same price.
and when its time to go to work ... canadian pilots are respected. No BS and just wanting to get the job done and have some fun ... thats the way. Just remember that when you see those LOW salaries back home!!!
So tonight when I get back I will sit on my couch and watch a NHL game on the tube with my Molson in my hand.
Cheers
Those of you NOT ... have a look overseas. You will miss Canada, but when the sun shines everyday you get on your boat and spend a full tank of gas playing around for about 10$. The beer is NOT better than home but Canadian beer is imported to the middle east and its about the same price.
and when its time to go to work ... canadian pilots are respected. No BS and just wanting to get the job done and have some fun ... thats the way. Just remember that when you see those LOW salaries back home!!!
So tonight when I get back I will sit on my couch and watch a NHL game on the tube with my Molson in my hand.
Cheers
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The topic was which company in CANADA is the best place to work for. I don't see anything in that title about overseas. Congrats to all those happy pilots flying outside of Canada, but once again you have all shown us how desparate you are to justify your decisions. It's stronger than you isn't it? We all understand how good you have it. Good for you!!
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Desperation...not from where a LOT of us expats sit... dont know where you are getting your info from, but its just fine here! I would think that having several big players in Canada fail in the last few years is desperation, but thats only due to the the one major airline in Canada policy our famous feds have had for many many years.
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LC.
Ya, desperation. This thread had nothing to do with overseas. One or two threads I can understand. But it turned into a "we're happy, you're not". Know what? We don't care. Good for you that you're doing well. But don't hijack a thread. That's desperation!! That's "look at me, PLEASE". I can also tell your knowledge of the industry in this country is pretty narrow and stereotypical. Anyway, we won't agree on this one, but I just want to thank all you expats for giving me a great oppurtunity by not being around and giving me a better shot at living my dream job in Canada and around the world. Thanks!!
Ya, desperation. This thread had nothing to do with overseas. One or two threads I can understand. But it turned into a "we're happy, you're not". Know what? We don't care. Good for you that you're doing well. But don't hijack a thread. That's desperation!! That's "look at me, PLEASE". I can also tell your knowledge of the industry in this country is pretty narrow and stereotypical. Anyway, we won't agree on this one, but I just want to thank all you expats for giving me a great oppurtunity by not being around and giving me a better shot at living my dream job in Canada and around the world. Thanks!!
Last edited by brucelee; 27th Mar 2007 at 01:42.