AC pilot locked out of cockpit after pee break
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AC pilot locked out of cockpit after pee break
Pilot locked out of cockpit after bathroom break
Mike Edgell, Global National
Published: Wednesday, August 30, 2006
WINNIPEG - An Air Canada pilot who left the flight deck to visit the washroom found himself locked out of the cockpit when he tried to return -- forcing the crew to remove the door from its hinges.
It happened aboard an Air Canada Jazz flight on Saturday, and the company confirmed to Global National yesterday it is conducting an internal investigation into the incident that took place on the Bombardier CRJ-100 carrying as many as 50 passengers from Ottawa to Winnipeg.
Full story: http://tinyurl.com/jlkey
Mike Edgell, Global National
Published: Wednesday, August 30, 2006
WINNIPEG - An Air Canada pilot who left the flight deck to visit the washroom found himself locked out of the cockpit when he tried to return -- forcing the crew to remove the door from its hinges.
It happened aboard an Air Canada Jazz flight on Saturday, and the company confirmed to Global National yesterday it is conducting an internal investigation into the incident that took place on the Bombardier CRJ-100 carrying as many as 50 passengers from Ottawa to Winnipeg.
Full story: http://tinyurl.com/jlkey
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The pilot "can be taken hostage by someone in the plane with hostile intent," said Peter St. John, a Winnipeg-based security analyst
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I can see that right now...now more peepee breaks. That's it! No soup for you! We'll get issued gel packs! Just out of curiosity....what makes one a security analyst. I can see the root is 'anal' but really what is it and how do you become one to get quoted in the paper? Could it be Bob in the gatehouse? He is security! Yeah that's it, let's quote him!
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A sampling of his expertise from various sources (aka Google):
Canadian travellers aren't getting the security they need, – a sentiment echoed by terrorism expert Peter St. John, from the University of Manitoba.
"If you have a uniform and you have the right credentials then you've got access to do anything you want in the airport," says St. John. "You can almost board a plane at will and hijack it or anything. Security is just poor."
...
Airport security expert Peter St. John of Winnipeg stated Sept. 12th on national CBC TV that Canadian airport security was downgraded by the removal of RCMP officers and the substitution of rent-a-cops and that the bottom-line focus of airport authorities has also contributed to this loss of security
...
(about 9/11)
Attorney General John Ashcroft said that on at least two of the planes hijacked Tuesday, the perpetrators were armed with knives and box cutters. It's unknown whether they slipped past screeners or were placed on the planes beforehand by allies employed at the airport.
Because of the close coordination of the hijackings, insiders on the ground likely played key roles, says terrorism expert Peter St. John at the University of Manitoba in Winnipeg.
...
Despite the extra fees for security, a Canadian terrorism expert says our airports are some of the least secure around the world.
Peter St. John, the author of books on terrorism and a security consultant to airlines and foreign governments, told Global News "we're at the bottom of the pile amongst western states I would say."
...
Professor St. John ... is known as the foremost expert on terrorism on the North American continent. Often when airport hostages are taken or hostages are taken, Professor St. John is the one that is called in by governments, both in the U.S. and here in Canada to defuse hostage takings in this sense.
Professor St. John has a lot of experience and a lot of knowledge. He has studied terrorism for more than 15 years.
"If you have a uniform and you have the right credentials then you've got access to do anything you want in the airport," says St. John. "You can almost board a plane at will and hijack it or anything. Security is just poor."
...
Airport security expert Peter St. John of Winnipeg stated Sept. 12th on national CBC TV that Canadian airport security was downgraded by the removal of RCMP officers and the substitution of rent-a-cops and that the bottom-line focus of airport authorities has also contributed to this loss of security
...
(about 9/11)
Attorney General John Ashcroft said that on at least two of the planes hijacked Tuesday, the perpetrators were armed with knives and box cutters. It's unknown whether they slipped past screeners or were placed on the planes beforehand by allies employed at the airport.
Because of the close coordination of the hijackings, insiders on the ground likely played key roles, says terrorism expert Peter St. John at the University of Manitoba in Winnipeg.
...
Despite the extra fees for security, a Canadian terrorism expert says our airports are some of the least secure around the world.
Peter St. John, the author of books on terrorism and a security consultant to airlines and foreign governments, told Global News "we're at the bottom of the pile amongst western states I would say."
...
Professor St. John ... is known as the foremost expert on terrorism on the North American continent. Often when airport hostages are taken or hostages are taken, Professor St. John is the one that is called in by governments, both in the U.S. and here in Canada to defuse hostage takings in this sense.
Professor St. John has a lot of experience and a lot of knowledge. He has studied terrorism for more than 15 years.
Last edited by PaperTiger; 30th Aug 2006 at 22:03.
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He must have a pretty easy job.When was the last time hostages were taken at a North American airport?
Or anywhere in North America for that matter? FLQ in Quebec during the Trudeau years?
Or anywhere in North America for that matter? FLQ in Quebec during the Trudeau years?
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Hey Ray
Can you picture ole Ironbutt stuck out there on the way to someplace fun after "Gitten er dun?" Maybe too much info and who gives a "crap"? Sounds like a slow news day to me.
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FFS, the more I read comments regarding security risk/bad guy pax now being able to hijack whatever by taking the door off the hinge, the more retarded it sounds. Just how long would it take for people ON BOTH SIDES of the door to actually take it off the hinges, let alone Billy Badguy on the outside trying by himself. "ATC, we're gonna need to land pretty sharpish thanks.........."
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Anyone who has read the article “It Won’t Happen to You, of Course...But What if it Does?” by Bob Merrick in Transport Canada’s Aviation Safety Letter 3/2006 will no doubt be wondering exactly what the First Officer and/or Flight Attendant used to remove the hinges. For those who have not read it, the article strongly makes the case that in the event of a forced landing or crash the occupants of a plane might be dependant for survival and safety solely on what is in their pockets or on their person. Flight crews and pax should be appropriately dressed and should carry on their person the necessary survival gear. As he states: “Sure, there is survival gear in the aircraft, but sometimes airplanes burn following unusual landings, the survival stuff goes with it, and you’re left with what you have on your back and in your pockets.”
Apart from wearing suitable clothing, a pilot should have on him such items as matches in a waterproof container, mosquito repellent, a signalling mirror, a Mini Maglite and of course a Swiss Army knife or similar multi-purpose tool. Was it a Swiss Army knife that the CRJ crew used? I presume a CRJ’s cockpit does not normally contain a tool kit with suitable screwdrivers as part of its standard equipment. A crash axe would probably be too big to undo the sort of screws used for hinges. This would seem to indicate a Swiss Army knife or similar tool was used. If so, well done to the crew for being properly equipped. It supports the case that pilots should always carry Swiss Army knives and Mini Maglites on their belts. You never know when you might have to remove the cockpit door.
What about airport security personnel objecting to pilots carrying Swiss Army knives? Transport Canada has supplied the answer. Pilots have a duty and responsibility to themselves and their passengers to carry essential survival equipment on their person! Where I fly in Africa it is normal for both professional pilots and the smarter private types, such as farmers and missionaries, to carry a Swiss Army knife and Mini Maglite on their belts. As far as we are concerned these are no-go items, an essential part of our job equipment. Apart from possible survival use to build a fire to keep hungry wild animals (hyenas and lions here and bears in Canada) at bay or for warmth or to create smoke or for cooking or boiling water, I always check round the plane at each stop and find that the screwdriver blades of my Wenger Ranger knife come in handy from time to time to tighten loose fasteners or screws on various panels or the engine cowlings. Twice at remote locations I have been unable to start one engine and the boss and his engineering staff have had to come to the rescue in another aircraft. On both occasions at his request, because he knew I carried a Swiss Army knife, I was able to save considerable time by using my knife’s screwdriver blades to undo the myriad of fasteners and screws to remove the offending engine’s cowlings and covers before they arrived.
In several years in Africa, flying through numerous international airports in different countries as well as the bush strips, I have not heard of any pilot carrying a Swiss Army knife or similar tool having a problem with over-zealous security personnel. Security personnel here apply some common sense and intelligence to the carrying out of their duties. Most countries have laws regarding unlawful interference with air traffic or obstruction of aircrews in the performance of their duties. Trying to deprive aircrews of essential small repair and survival equipment would fall under this. If bothered by such obstruction, refuse to go without the necessary items, call the police and insist that the offending security person be charged. Make sure your dispatch knows the situation. Take note of the ID of both the security person and the cop and ensure that the matter is followed up. Security personnel are supposed to be there to help flight crews and air operators conduct a safe flight, not hinder them!
Apart from wearing suitable clothing, a pilot should have on him such items as matches in a waterproof container, mosquito repellent, a signalling mirror, a Mini Maglite and of course a Swiss Army knife or similar multi-purpose tool. Was it a Swiss Army knife that the CRJ crew used? I presume a CRJ’s cockpit does not normally contain a tool kit with suitable screwdrivers as part of its standard equipment. A crash axe would probably be too big to undo the sort of screws used for hinges. This would seem to indicate a Swiss Army knife or similar tool was used. If so, well done to the crew for being properly equipped. It supports the case that pilots should always carry Swiss Army knives and Mini Maglites on their belts. You never know when you might have to remove the cockpit door.
What about airport security personnel objecting to pilots carrying Swiss Army knives? Transport Canada has supplied the answer. Pilots have a duty and responsibility to themselves and their passengers to carry essential survival equipment on their person! Where I fly in Africa it is normal for both professional pilots and the smarter private types, such as farmers and missionaries, to carry a Swiss Army knife and Mini Maglite on their belts. As far as we are concerned these are no-go items, an essential part of our job equipment. Apart from possible survival use to build a fire to keep hungry wild animals (hyenas and lions here and bears in Canada) at bay or for warmth or to create smoke or for cooking or boiling water, I always check round the plane at each stop and find that the screwdriver blades of my Wenger Ranger knife come in handy from time to time to tighten loose fasteners or screws on various panels or the engine cowlings. Twice at remote locations I have been unable to start one engine and the boss and his engineering staff have had to come to the rescue in another aircraft. On both occasions at his request, because he knew I carried a Swiss Army knife, I was able to save considerable time by using my knife’s screwdriver blades to undo the myriad of fasteners and screws to remove the offending engine’s cowlings and covers before they arrived.
In several years in Africa, flying through numerous international airports in different countries as well as the bush strips, I have not heard of any pilot carrying a Swiss Army knife or similar tool having a problem with over-zealous security personnel. Security personnel here apply some common sense and intelligence to the carrying out of their duties. Most countries have laws regarding unlawful interference with air traffic or obstruction of aircrews in the performance of their duties. Trying to deprive aircrews of essential small repair and survival equipment would fall under this. If bothered by such obstruction, refuse to go without the necessary items, call the police and insist that the offending security person be charged. Make sure your dispatch knows the situation. Take note of the ID of both the security person and the cop and ensure that the matter is followed up. Security personnel are supposed to be there to help flight crews and air operators conduct a safe flight, not hinder them!
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Anyone who has read the article “It Won’t Happen to You, of Course...But What if it Does?” by Bob Merrick in Transport Canada’s Aviation Safety Letter 3/2006 will no doubt be wondering exactly what the First Officer and/or Flight Attendant used to remove the hinges. For those who have not read it, the article strongly makes the case that in the event of a forced landing or crash the occupants of a plane might be dependant for survival and safety solely on what is in their pockets or on their person. Flight crews and pax should be appropriately dressed and should carry on their person the necessary survival gear. As he states: “Sure, there is survival gear in the aircraft, but sometimes airplanes burn following unusual landings, the survival stuff goes with it, and you’re left with what you have on your back and in your pockets.”
Apart from wearing suitable clothing, a pilot should have on him such items as matches in a waterproof container, mosquito repellent, a signalling mirror, a Mini Maglite and of course a Swiss Army knife or similar multi-purpose tool. Was it a Swiss Army knife that the CRJ crew used? I presume a CRJ’s cockpit does not normally contain a tool kit with suitable screwdrivers as part of its standard equipment. A crash axe would probably be too big to undo the sort of screws used for hinges. This would seem to indicate a Swiss Army knife or similar tool was used. If so, well done to the crew for being properly equipped. It supports the case that pilots should always carry Swiss Army knives and Mini Maglites on their belts. You never know when you might have to remove the cockpit door.
What about airport security personnel objecting to pilots carrying Swiss Army knives? Transport Canada has supplied the answer. Pilots have a duty and responsibility to themselves and their passengers to carry essential survival equipment on their person! Where I fly in Africa it is normal for both professional pilots and the smarter private types, such as farmers and missionaries, to carry a Swiss Army knife and Mini Maglite on their belts. As far as we are concerned these are no-go items, an essential part of our job equipment. Apart from possible survival use to build a fire to keep hungry wild animals (hyenas and lions here and bears in Canada) at bay or for warmth or to create smoke or for cooking or boiling water, I always check round the plane at each stop and find that the screwdriver blades of my Wenger Ranger knife come in handy from time to time to tighten loose fasteners or screws on various panels or the engine cowlings. Twice at remote locations I have been unable to start one engine and the boss and his engineering staff have had to come to the rescue in another aircraft. On both occasions at his request, because he knew I carried a Swiss Army knife, I was able to save considerable time by using my knife’s screwdriver blades to undo the myriad of fasteners and screws to remove the offending engine’s cowlings and covers before they arrived.
In several years in Africa, flying through numerous international airports in different countries as well as the bush strips, I have not heard of any pilot carrying a Swiss Army knife or similar tool having a problem with over-zealous security personnel. Security personnel here apply some common sense and intelligence to the carrying out of their duties. Most countries have laws regarding unlawful interference with air traffic or obstruction of aircrews in the performance of their duties. Trying to deprive aircrews of essential small repair and survival equipment would fall under this. If bothered by such obstruction, refuse to go without the necessary items, call the police and insist that the offending security person be charged. Make sure your dispatch knows the situation. Take note of the ID of both the security person and the cop and ensure that the matter is followed up. Security personnel are supposed to be there to help flight crews and air operators conduct a safe flight, not hinder them!
Apart from wearing suitable clothing, a pilot should have on him such items as matches in a waterproof container, mosquito repellent, a signalling mirror, a Mini Maglite and of course a Swiss Army knife or similar multi-purpose tool. Was it a Swiss Army knife that the CRJ crew used? I presume a CRJ’s cockpit does not normally contain a tool kit with suitable screwdrivers as part of its standard equipment. A crash axe would probably be too big to undo the sort of screws used for hinges. This would seem to indicate a Swiss Army knife or similar tool was used. If so, well done to the crew for being properly equipped. It supports the case that pilots should always carry Swiss Army knives and Mini Maglites on their belts. You never know when you might have to remove the cockpit door.
What about airport security personnel objecting to pilots carrying Swiss Army knives? Transport Canada has supplied the answer. Pilots have a duty and responsibility to themselves and their passengers to carry essential survival equipment on their person! Where I fly in Africa it is normal for both professional pilots and the smarter private types, such as farmers and missionaries, to carry a Swiss Army knife and Mini Maglite on their belts. As far as we are concerned these are no-go items, an essential part of our job equipment. Apart from possible survival use to build a fire to keep hungry wild animals (hyenas and lions here and bears in Canada) at bay or for warmth or to create smoke or for cooking or boiling water, I always check round the plane at each stop and find that the screwdriver blades of my Wenger Ranger knife come in handy from time to time to tighten loose fasteners or screws on various panels or the engine cowlings. Twice at remote locations I have been unable to start one engine and the boss and his engineering staff have had to come to the rescue in another aircraft. On both occasions at his request, because he knew I carried a Swiss Army knife, I was able to save considerable time by using my knife’s screwdriver blades to undo the myriad of fasteners and screws to remove the offending engine’s cowlings and covers before they arrived.
In several years in Africa, flying through numerous international airports in different countries as well as the bush strips, I have not heard of any pilot carrying a Swiss Army knife or similar tool having a problem with over-zealous security personnel. Security personnel here apply some common sense and intelligence to the carrying out of their duties. Most countries have laws regarding unlawful interference with air traffic or obstruction of aircrews in the performance of their duties. Trying to deprive aircrews of essential small repair and survival equipment would fall under this. If bothered by such obstruction, refuse to go without the necessary items, call the police and insist that the offending security person be charged. Make sure your dispatch knows the situation. Take note of the ID of both the security person and the cop and ensure that the matter is followed up. Security personnel are supposed to be there to help flight crews and air operators conduct a safe flight, not hinder them!
Methinks the days of us pilots being able to carry a leatherman are long gone unfortunately. I can't even carry toothpaste anymore, nevermind something with a blade. I can just see the heart attack a security guy at LHR or JFK would have when he saw your swiss army knife. And don't try and use logic (ie pilots don't actually need a sharp knife to take control of teh a/c, we're actually already in control of it) because that dosen't apply in security land.
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First off folks, no tools are needed to remove the cockpit door. The hinge pins are designed to be removable by hand, so no real problem there--aside from the embarassment of having to actually be watched by the SLF through the whole affair!
The report that I got stated that there was some confusion with the cockpit remote access system, and that there was found to be no problem with the door itself, but rather the operators.
Can anybody further substantiate this?
The report that I got stated that there was some confusion with the cockpit remote access system, and that there was found to be no problem with the door itself, but rather the operators.
Can anybody further substantiate this?
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This event reminds me of the similar story I was told many years ago...
I was at the Boeing plant in Seattle, picking up some AOG parts for my former employer - Worldways Canada. At the time of my visit, the Boeing shipping department staff were also shipping a new 737 cockpit door, as a replacement part. There was great amusement, as this was the first time a cockpit door had been requested as a replacement part (it had to be specially made). Turns out that Captain stepped out for a bio break, and first officer stepped out for a coffee before the Captain returned. Door locked behind them, cockpit unoccupied. They apparently beat their way in with a fire axe, in view of the passengers. Hence the need for the replacement part. At least back in those days, the door was not that hard to get through!
I was at the Boeing plant in Seattle, picking up some AOG parts for my former employer - Worldways Canada. At the time of my visit, the Boeing shipping department staff were also shipping a new 737 cockpit door, as a replacement part. There was great amusement, as this was the first time a cockpit door had been requested as a replacement part (it had to be specially made). Turns out that Captain stepped out for a bio break, and first officer stepped out for a coffee before the Captain returned. Door locked behind them, cockpit unoccupied. They apparently beat their way in with a fire axe, in view of the passengers. Hence the need for the replacement part. At least back in those days, the door was not that hard to get through!
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" romour has it the skipper is a real prick, with an extremely high fo book off rate "
Hell just have him do another CRM course, that will take care of that problem.
Hell just have him do another CRM course, that will take care of that problem.
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If the skip is such a prick, suggest buying him some Depends which will negate need to go and visit fwd lav and also demonstrate they all think he's senile...perfect solution.
PS Chuck - you're right...should send him on PRM - Personality Realignment Management - how many skips need that (myself of course, excluded)??!
PS Chuck - you're right...should send him on PRM - Personality Realignment Management - how many skips need that (myself of course, excluded)??!
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Yeh, GreatCircle.
After all these years in aviation I have noted that no matter how many courses in " human factors " you give to a personatility challenged individual they come out exactly as they entered...pricks.
Just writing " human factors " is so exciting I want to go back into flying for a living...
After all these years in aviation I have noted that no matter how many courses in " human factors " you give to a personatility challenged individual they come out exactly as they entered...pricks.
Just writing " human factors " is so exciting I want to go back into flying for a living...