Atc problems flight training
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: Canada
Atc problems flight training
I am lerning to fly at the moment in Manitoba and I have been experienceing some problems with ATC that I am wanting to lern more about.My flight training is very expensive but will help me get a good position when I return to my home.I have on some occasions been denyied clearance by terminal Atc when I had prepared and breifed for a certain flight yet I know other pilots have been allowed to.I pay good money for hours in the airplane and I file my flight plan as is required.I know Atcs may be busy is there a good time I should be trying for.A group of us went up to the centre to visit terminal Atc and they told us they were hapy to have us there.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 223
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From: Toronto, Ont, Canada
Originally Posted by bigskycanada
I am lerning to fly at the moment in Manitoba and I have been experienceing some problems with ATC that I am wanting to lern more about.My flight training is very expensive but will help me get a good position when I return to my home.I have on some occasions been denyied clearance by terminal Atc when I had prepared and breifed for a certain flight yet I know other pilots have been allowed to.I pay good money for hours in the airplane and I file my flight plan as is required.I know Atcs may be busy is there a good time I should be trying for.A group of us went up to the centre to visit terminal Atc and they told us they were hapy to have us there.
Best would be to talk to the ATC manager there and your instructor.
Which airport / ATC is it?
I'm in Toronto, and a lot of IFR training get's coordinated between CYYZ (Toronto)/ CYKF(Waterloo) / CYHM (Hamilton). CYYZ has specific notes in the CFS about how far in advance they need to be notified for training. In addition if the clearance was for practice approaches, it might have been that the tower was just too busy to accomodate you at that time.
This is something you and your instructor should really discuss, and map out a "game plan" for a lesson with maybe approaches / holds / enroute all possibly planned and with the flexibility of being able to switch to a hold or a different approach depending on ATC availability.
That might be a bit tough I guess if you're planning on an ILS but it's not available and you haven't briefed any other approaches. You're going to have to learn to fly all the different type of approaches eventually anyway, so I would suggest you book some classroom time with your instructor, and over one or more lessons, go over all the available approaches for that airport, so that you're prepared (to at least practice anyway) any of them.
When you start flying IFR for "real", obviously you might get in a weather situation where the runways / approaches are being changed and you're going to need to know how to fly any of them.
Mike
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 19
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From: Canada
I haven't instructed in a long while but it seems to me that when a person is learning a new skill you can't always do adhoc lessons. Each lesson has to be taught chronologically in order for all the pieces of the puzzle to fit. This post brings to light something that many of us already know. Winnipeg Area and Winnipeg tower are the most un-accomodating atc group in Canada. They are not a pleasure to work with at all. Quite often a reasonable request is rejected promptly and in a curt "I'm annoyed" tone of voice. Other centres especially our US friends will provide a reason why the request won't work. That in my mind is good CRM on the controllers part. I wonder if our YWG counterparts are clutching to their bureaucratic past instead of their new reality of being a service provider.
Ohcirrej
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: This is the internet FFS.........
I certainly will rise to the bait my good Pilatus flying friend. 
Mr/Ms WestJetCR if you fly into Winnipeg then I'll almost 100% guarantee you've spoken to me at one time or another. I can only speak for Winnipeg Terminal control (I have re-read your post and note you only mention Area and Tower. Deliberate?), but would you please be so kind as to define your "reasonable requests" that are being denied (non-active runway departure/arrival?). I'll also pose this question to you........do you also operate into Saskatoon and Thunder Bay? This is not an attempt at a !!!!!-o-gram, just an honst attempt to ascertain what is going on that is pissing you guys off.
As to the original post, I'm taking a wild stab in the dark here and assuming (I hate that word) that Mr/Ms BigSky could very well be operating out of Harv's in Steinbach/St Andrews. Am I correct?
Mr/Ms WestJetCR if you fly into Winnipeg then I'll almost 100% guarantee you've spoken to me at one time or another. I can only speak for Winnipeg Terminal control (I have re-read your post and note you only mention Area and Tower. Deliberate?), but would you please be so kind as to define your "reasonable requests" that are being denied (non-active runway departure/arrival?). I'll also pose this question to you........do you also operate into Saskatoon and Thunder Bay? This is not an attempt at a !!!!!-o-gram, just an honst attempt to ascertain what is going on that is pissing you guys off.
As to the original post, I'm taking a wild stab in the dark here and assuming (I hate that word) that Mr/Ms BigSky could very well be operating out of Harv's in Steinbach/St Andrews. Am I correct?
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2
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From: Canada
The airport ATC I am refering to is located in south east Manitoba and sometimes the controller sounded outright annoyed that I was there. I was flying cross country one day and the controller kept querying me was I maintaining my assigned altitude.Now I was still learning it was only varying by a hundred feet or so but the terminal controller sounded quite rude about it.There were also times Iwe were outright refused to entry to do some night time touch and gos which is frustrating given the money I had to pay for the aircraft.
