Westjet pay.
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Westjet pay.
There are some good pay comparison information at this link if you feel the need to apply at Westjet.
The pay isnt great, unless youre still living at home with Mom and Dad or maybe a basement suite in Beddington will work. A small suite and a old car. Like a 1973 ford pinto. OK I veered off subject but you get the picture. I'd like to know how you afford to pay for wonderful Westjet shares when you are making jack in the first place.
http://acpilot.********.com/2005/11/...rlines_29.html
The pay isnt great, unless youre still living at home with Mom and Dad or maybe a basement suite in Beddington will work. A small suite and a old car. Like a 1973 ford pinto. OK I veered off subject but you get the picture. I'd like to know how you afford to pay for wonderful Westjet shares when you are making jack in the first place.
http://acpilot.********.com/2005/11/...rlines_29.html
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The starting pay at most places is quite low and with due respect the starting salary at WestJet is reportedly higher than the starting salary at Air Canada.
I think the issue of a low starting salary is more of an industry wide phenomenon than a particular Airline...
As for the Share Participation, the 20% I did from day one has now grown to a nice little nest egg inside my RRSP. By putting it in my RRSP I also gain the tax deduction. That is one way to "I'd like to know how you afford to pay for wonderful Westjet shares when you are making jack in the first place."
I think the issue of a low starting salary is more of an industry wide phenomenon than a particular Airline...
As for the Share Participation, the 20% I did from day one has now grown to a nice little nest egg inside my RRSP. By putting it in my RRSP I also gain the tax deduction. That is one way to "I'd like to know how you afford to pay for wonderful Westjet shares when you are making jack in the first place."
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Based on some info from friends at Air Canada and Jazz. It seems that Westjets pay is significantly better then both for at least 2 years. Canadian North is perhaps the highest. What major Canadian Airline that is currently hiring would you recommend???
The Pilots unions across Canada have been selling out the newbies for quite some time. This is an unfourtunate problem in Canada that only a Guild or Bar association can help, such as an actors guild or a bar association that lawyers belong to. I would love an alternative if you may suggest any that would be great.
The Pilots unions across Canada have been selling out the newbies for quite some time. This is an unfourtunate problem in Canada that only a Guild or Bar association can help, such as an actors guild or a bar association that lawyers belong to. I would love an alternative if you may suggest any that would be great.
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Starting salaries in Canada are all within $3-4k per year of each other at all the "major" companies. There is no such thing as significantly higher. Westjetters keep including their RSP's in their salary. That's fine but I don't see how this differs from AC. Almost every employee at AC has RSP's and company stock AND a pension. And even after devoting all that money to investments our net salary is still higher. Simply put, bigger planes means bigger bucks. Period. It's the long term you have to look at as well. As WJ grows, there will be less profit. Less wealth to spread around. This is already happening but will get worse. Productivity will have to go up. This country cannot sustain more than one major airline. Have we not seen this before? The euphoria that has been sustainable as a small company will vanish in the coming years. I suspect that by that time Clive will be long gone with his mllions in the bank and Wjetters will be left with trying to negotiate a reasonable contract. Good luck. You heard it here first.
Last edited by brucelee; 20th Dec 2005 at 18:34.
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My understanding is that after all the investment perks, ie stocks and rrsp's, all that's left amounts to less than $1000 a paycheck for the fo. They claim they are rich. Well if I liquidate all my investments thanks to AC, I would be rich too. But I sure as hell make more than $800 a paycheck as an fo. I guess that's the reason Clive sells them the "happy" juice. Great place to work don't you know.
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We've all bemoaned the first year salary in the aviation business. That's an industry-wide phenomenon as I pointed out in the first post...
If you'll get past the first year, a second year F/O at WestJet has a paycheque of $1923 and some odd cents every two weeks. $3864 a month before taxes. How you arrange your finances regarding taxes is up to the individual, I won't guess at take-home. We are all different, but that is the starting point.
Yes there are investment "perks" as you call them... In addition to the salary, there is the Employee Share Ownership Programme, which is completely voluntary. If you choose to participate, for every share you buy, the company will match. One makes 100% on the investment on day one.
There is profit sharing paid twice a year. May & November. We've paid out millions of dollars in profitshare in the past 6 years. 5 million dollars was paid to the employees last month. For perspective, that was an extra paycheque for myself...
There is the Share Option Plan which all Pilots are a part. The Options have created quite a bit of wealth and paid off more than a few mortgages. Yes, mine as well.
If you'll get past the first year, a second year F/O at WestJet has a paycheque of $1923 and some odd cents every two weeks. $3864 a month before taxes. How you arrange your finances regarding taxes is up to the individual, I won't guess at take-home. We are all different, but that is the starting point.
Yes there are investment "perks" as you call them... In addition to the salary, there is the Employee Share Ownership Programme, which is completely voluntary. If you choose to participate, for every share you buy, the company will match. One makes 100% on the investment on day one.
There is profit sharing paid twice a year. May & November. We've paid out millions of dollars in profitshare in the past 6 years. 5 million dollars was paid to the employees last month. For perspective, that was an extra paycheque for myself...
There is the Share Option Plan which all Pilots are a part. The Options have created quite a bit of wealth and paid off more than a few mortgages. Yes, mine as well.
Last edited by Slapshot; 23rd Dec 2005 at 15:20.
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This country cannot sustain more than one major airline. Have we not seen this before?
You saw it HERE first!
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That's it Bruce.. just keep your head in the sand a little longer. I'm sure Big Red will come up with that 2B they owe the pension just in time for you. Let us know when your loan sharks are leaving the board room table so that we can all short AC...again.
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Re: Westjet pay.
I wanted to return to Canada last year from the UK where I've been for a while now. I took one look at Westjet salary and I was cured (almost!). No, I still want to come back but while Westjet Captains are earning junior first officer salaries, I guess it will have to be vacations only.
Before you ask - Flyglobespan, line capt in second year with the company, pounds equiv of $141,000 CDN
Before you ask - Flyglobespan, line capt in second year with the company, pounds equiv of $141,000 CDN
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Re: Westjet pay.
Originally Posted by Tilt
That's it Bruce.. just keep your head in the sand a little longer. I'm sure Big Red will come up with that 2B they owe the pension just in time for you. Let us know when your loan sharks are leaving the board room table so that we can all short AC...again.
Just my two cents' worth. Anything can happen in this world. Yes, even after surviving CCAA, a national merger and Clive Bedoe's espionage, not to mention the Liberal's view of AC's monopoly in the industry and the "high" cost of labour, this company just might be history someday. You guys could be right. I'll be sure to congradulate you on your wisdom and intelligence when that day comes. Untill then, try to keep it real. Your comments don't make too much "cents", eh. It could have worked out for you guys. Oh well, be happy with what you have.
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Re: Westjet pay.
Originally Posted by brucelee
... CCAA, a national merger and Clive Bedoe's espionage, not to mention the Liberal's view of AC's monopoly in the industry and the "high" cost of labour, this company just might be history someday...
I know it may be quite unimaginable to you from your lofty perch Bruce, but others in this industry might actually enjoy their jobs even though most of us failed to make it into your legacy airline...
Re: Westjet pay.
Given the incredible level of vitriol on this forum I'd normally stay out but Brucelee asked the question. Tell me why AC is headed back to the CCA yard.
Reason #1 – It is all about the customers. When you are no longer the monopoly that you always have being you need to change your ways or you die.
A few weeks back I flew JFK/SLC - rt. purchased the ticket 2 weeks before and paid $330 al in. If I had done it a few weeks earlier it would have being $220. The day before I looked to add my son, price would have being 460. Flight was totally full. Depending on when you bought that is a seat mile cost of 5-13 cents. Average say 9.
We landed 20 minutes early and waited on the ramp for our gate. We walked off the plane at the planned arrival time. Three days later I get an email apologizing for the delay???? And telling me they had deposited a $25 credit in my FF account. Good for one year on any Jet blue flight.
Compare this to the “New Air Canada” as described in this forum
http://www.pprune.com/forums/showthr...hreadid=202246
My father had a very similar experience a few years back and it is just plain old arrogance to the customer. “We’ve got you, or rather we’ve got your money, and we are going to bend you over the table because you have no choice”
So given a choice – who are you going to fly? Jet Blue can fill its planes and make money at reasonable fairs and provide a real top-notch product and service that makes loyal customers. AC just gave at least one customer a really good reason to look elsewhere. (Read the thread carefully – the AC counter staff basically called the man a liar on two counts. Wow where do you get these people)
The problem of legacy airlines is not legacy costs. It is the legacy thinking deeply embedded in the DNA of the management and the employees. Very few legacy airlines have being able to survive real competition. They simple cannot see the customer as anything but captive and they will always behave that way unless something forces them to change. This ‘you have no choice’ attitude works it way down to all levels of employees.
AC has the same management that put you in the soup. What has changed? How much is Uncle Miltie making off with out of his “visionary “ restructuring? Read the threads on this forum. AC has not solved its labor problems; it has stashed them in the closet. It used CCA to cover up bad decisions and beat the crap out of the work force. The tables will turn and the employees are just waiting to get their kick at the cat. Revenge is best eaten cold so it may be a few years but it will come and it will be vicious.
All AC needs to return to the good ole days is get that pesky competition out of the way. The attacks on Westjet are no different from all the ALPA boys calling SWA pilot’s low paid scabs for years.
In the past the legacy carriers have used a combination of regulatory agencies, captive markets, predatory pricing, airport slots and technical skills to maintain the monopolies. All of these elements are disappearing.
Funny thing is the chairman of JetBlue is an ex travel agent and is paid a minimal 500k per year and he has a lot of real money tied up in shares. Not a single option, real shares, real money and no golden parachute. He has already started and sold one airline and this one is only making money every quarter. They have 100 planes plus on order and eventually they will wander North.
I see nothing that tells me AC has changed. And don’t count on the overseas traffic to save your bacon. Every flight out means one of those low cost off shore Boeing operators coming the other way. The have identical costs to you for planes, fuel, nav and landing fees. The only edge they have is the labour costs and customer service.
The world has changed and flying and plane and operating a successful airline are no longer the domain of the elite few. Check out Jet Airways. When they start flying to North America that is where my business goes.
Reason # 2 = Anyone so stupid as to invest in America West or USAIR really has it coming. Got 4000 million, invest it in your own operation.
AC has the technical skills to run a 1st class operation. It is the management I really doubt and I’ve yet to see anything to convince me it has changed.
Reason #1 – It is all about the customers. When you are no longer the monopoly that you always have being you need to change your ways or you die.
A few weeks back I flew JFK/SLC - rt. purchased the ticket 2 weeks before and paid $330 al in. If I had done it a few weeks earlier it would have being $220. The day before I looked to add my son, price would have being 460. Flight was totally full. Depending on when you bought that is a seat mile cost of 5-13 cents. Average say 9.
We landed 20 minutes early and waited on the ramp for our gate. We walked off the plane at the planned arrival time. Three days later I get an email apologizing for the delay???? And telling me they had deposited a $25 credit in my FF account. Good for one year on any Jet blue flight.
Compare this to the “New Air Canada” as described in this forum
http://www.pprune.com/forums/showthr...hreadid=202246
My father had a very similar experience a few years back and it is just plain old arrogance to the customer. “We’ve got you, or rather we’ve got your money, and we are going to bend you over the table because you have no choice”
So given a choice – who are you going to fly? Jet Blue can fill its planes and make money at reasonable fairs and provide a real top-notch product and service that makes loyal customers. AC just gave at least one customer a really good reason to look elsewhere. (Read the thread carefully – the AC counter staff basically called the man a liar on two counts. Wow where do you get these people)
The problem of legacy airlines is not legacy costs. It is the legacy thinking deeply embedded in the DNA of the management and the employees. Very few legacy airlines have being able to survive real competition. They simple cannot see the customer as anything but captive and they will always behave that way unless something forces them to change. This ‘you have no choice’ attitude works it way down to all levels of employees.
AC has the same management that put you in the soup. What has changed? How much is Uncle Miltie making off with out of his “visionary “ restructuring? Read the threads on this forum. AC has not solved its labor problems; it has stashed them in the closet. It used CCA to cover up bad decisions and beat the crap out of the work force. The tables will turn and the employees are just waiting to get their kick at the cat. Revenge is best eaten cold so it may be a few years but it will come and it will be vicious.
All AC needs to return to the good ole days is get that pesky competition out of the way. The attacks on Westjet are no different from all the ALPA boys calling SWA pilot’s low paid scabs for years.
In the past the legacy carriers have used a combination of regulatory agencies, captive markets, predatory pricing, airport slots and technical skills to maintain the monopolies. All of these elements are disappearing.
Funny thing is the chairman of JetBlue is an ex travel agent and is paid a minimal 500k per year and he has a lot of real money tied up in shares. Not a single option, real shares, real money and no golden parachute. He has already started and sold one airline and this one is only making money every quarter. They have 100 planes plus on order and eventually they will wander North.
I see nothing that tells me AC has changed. And don’t count on the overseas traffic to save your bacon. Every flight out means one of those low cost off shore Boeing operators coming the other way. The have identical costs to you for planes, fuel, nav and landing fees. The only edge they have is the labour costs and customer service.
The world has changed and flying and plane and operating a successful airline are no longer the domain of the elite few. Check out Jet Airways. When they start flying to North America that is where my business goes.
Reason # 2 = Anyone so stupid as to invest in America West or USAIR really has it coming. Got 4000 million, invest it in your own operation.
AC has the technical skills to run a 1st class operation. It is the management I really doubt and I’ve yet to see anything to convince me it has changed.
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Re: Westjet pay.
The fact is we live in a great country and we are taxed to death.
Unless you are in the top half of AC or among those that were hired in the first couple years at WestJet or happen to have a nice corporate job you are making a salary well below what you should and I am just guessing here but I would bet that about 90+% of us don't fall into the fortunate category.
Unless you are in the top half of AC or among those that were hired in the first couple years at WestJet or happen to have a nice corporate job you are making a salary well below what you should and I am just guessing here but I would bet that about 90+% of us don't fall into the fortunate category.