Information on AC
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Information on AC
If someone can give the following info on AC it would be apperciated :
1. Are the EMB which AC is getting replacing the RJ, what is the real expansion of the 60 EMB planned in next 18 months ?
2. How many Pilots r there at AC, out of the total what would be the break of Capt / Fo / RP on each fleet.
3. How many yrs of service would the junior most Capt on 340/330/767/320/EMB/CRJ.
4. What is the rate of retirement for the next five yrs
5. What is the pension deal at AC for Pilots , how many yrs do u need to have for full pension.
6. What r the travel perks and what class of travel
7. Is there jump seat policy on AC for Pilots like in the US where one can travel without a tkt .
8. What r the medical benefits for self and family
9. How many new hire courses have already begun since they started in July and what are the plans for the next few months
Thanks in advance
1. Are the EMB which AC is getting replacing the RJ, what is the real expansion of the 60 EMB planned in next 18 months ?
2. How many Pilots r there at AC, out of the total what would be the break of Capt / Fo / RP on each fleet.
3. How many yrs of service would the junior most Capt on 340/330/767/320/EMB/CRJ.
4. What is the rate of retirement for the next five yrs
5. What is the pension deal at AC for Pilots , how many yrs do u need to have for full pension.
6. What r the travel perks and what class of travel
7. Is there jump seat policy on AC for Pilots like in the US where one can travel without a tkt .
8. What r the medical benefits for self and family
9. How many new hire courses have already begun since they started in July and what are the plans for the next few months
Thanks in advance
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always flying,
1) 60 Emjets coming , all 25 CRJ"s going. Will provide a net increase of 35 acft if no A320' s are removed ( and at the time none are supposed to go)
2) around 3100 pilots
3)most junior CRJ capt 5 years......most junior EMBJ capt 6 years
most junior A320 Capt 9 years, most junior 767 about 20 years
4) average of 100 retirements per year , maybe even a little more.
5) you must use a pass to use the jumpseat , but they are free of charge these days, you just pay the taxes.
6) unlimited amount of passes on AC and Star Alliance carriers for you and immediate family per year, no limits.
As many ID's as you want.
7) 55 new-hires since July. Next course in late October.
8) defined benefits pension, comes out to about 80% of the average of your best 3 years , full pension after 25 years.(This is a very simplified explanation and I am sure others will jump in on this issue)
MEAW
1) 60 Emjets coming , all 25 CRJ"s going. Will provide a net increase of 35 acft if no A320' s are removed ( and at the time none are supposed to go)
2) around 3100 pilots
3)most junior CRJ capt 5 years......most junior EMBJ capt 6 years
most junior A320 Capt 9 years, most junior 767 about 20 years
4) average of 100 retirements per year , maybe even a little more.
5) you must use a pass to use the jumpseat , but they are free of charge these days, you just pay the taxes.
6) unlimited amount of passes on AC and Star Alliance carriers for you and immediate family per year, no limits.
As many ID's as you want.
7) 55 new-hires since July. Next course in late October.
8) defined benefits pension, comes out to about 80% of the average of your best 3 years , full pension after 25 years.(This is a very simplified explanation and I am sure others will jump in on this issue)
MEAW
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Anyone know what type of pilots are being hired? I've heard a rumor (Stress on that) that less experienced pilots are being hired first because they know they will work cheaper and take longer to upgrade (read be cheaper for longer) than an older more experienced pilot. Any truth to that??
Cheers
SPC-9
Cheers
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MEAW:
Some interesting "inside gen" ... thanks. For the retirees, I heard that there was going to be a "massive" retirement of the baby boomers over the next 2 years or so from ACA ... hence the proposed hiring of about 600 new guys over the next 2 years to fill the gap.
How about the 777 deal? Is that completely dead now or may we see that coming up again in the future?
Just wondering if there was a plan to get rid of the gas guzzling 767s and older technology in favour of the new fuel efficient stuff.
/interesting thread for a change ... no name calling and insults flying around.
Some interesting "inside gen" ... thanks. For the retirees, I heard that there was going to be a "massive" retirement of the baby boomers over the next 2 years or so from ACA ... hence the proposed hiring of about 600 new guys over the next 2 years to fill the gap.
How about the 777 deal? Is that completely dead now or may we see that coming up again in the future?
Just wondering if there was a plan to get rid of the gas guzzling 767s and older technology in favour of the new fuel efficient stuff.
/interesting thread for a change ... no name calling and insults flying around.
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Saudi pic,
That rumor is false.Younger guys don't take longer to upgrade because upgrades are done STRICTLY by seniority , no exceptions.
As for young pilots working for cheaper that's not true because there is a collective agreement and the pay is the same regardless of your age and background.
So far the pilots hired this summer almost all have serious jet time or heavy TP time.Some are from Westjet, CargoJet,Skyservice,Bombardier,Jazz, corporate jet outfits, Kelowna Flightcraft and a few from CMA.
Most seem to have many thousands of hours BUT if AC does actually go through with the hiring of 600 pilots like they plan , forsure lower time people will get in , that is for sure and that is what happened in the last hiring spree of the late 90's.
That is the real reason why lower time people will eventually get in.
Herc driver,
Yes there will be a lot of retirements, like I said 100-120 per year for the next decade.The 600 new hires are partly for that but also some growth that is planned with all the new EMBJ's (35 more than the CRJ's they will replace) and because of overseas expansion.
There is no news on the 777 deal as of yet but yes eventually AC has to replace the older ACFT and believe me they will do it profitably even if we don't agree to fly them much below market value......(so much for not slinging mud...)
So I would tell you to stay tuned ......
That rumor is false.Younger guys don't take longer to upgrade because upgrades are done STRICTLY by seniority , no exceptions.
As for young pilots working for cheaper that's not true because there is a collective agreement and the pay is the same regardless of your age and background.
So far the pilots hired this summer almost all have serious jet time or heavy TP time.Some are from Westjet, CargoJet,Skyservice,Bombardier,Jazz, corporate jet outfits, Kelowna Flightcraft and a few from CMA.
Most seem to have many thousands of hours BUT if AC does actually go through with the hiring of 600 pilots like they plan , forsure lower time people will get in , that is for sure and that is what happened in the last hiring spree of the late 90's.
That is the real reason why lower time people will eventually get in.
Herc driver,
Yes there will be a lot of retirements, like I said 100-120 per year for the next decade.The 600 new hires are partly for that but also some growth that is planned with all the new EMBJ's (35 more than the CRJ's they will replace) and because of overseas expansion.
There is no news on the 777 deal as of yet but yes eventually AC has to replace the older ACFT and believe me they will do it profitably even if we don't agree to fly them much below market value......(so much for not slinging mud...)
So I would tell you to stay tuned ......
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The 600 pilots in the next two years was a rumour propagated by your management during negotiations for the 777 and 787. Have you heard this since then? I didn't think so. With the price of oil hovering around $70.00 I don't think anyone will be hiring a great number of pilots for the foreseeable future so anyone contemplating going should expect to be very junior for a long time. No weekends off, no christmas off, no family birthdays off, and an uncertain schedule every month where you only have 4 days off that are guranteed. I would also guess that more A319/A320's will be leaving than you think which will put more people into the "b-scale".
As for WestJet, things are already slowing down here and for once we are ahead of the hiring curve with no new courses for the foreseeable future.
As for WestJet, things are already slowing down here and for once we are ahead of the hiring curve with no new courses for the foreseeable future.
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Great thread here, many thanks,
What would you say the majority of the flight crews gripes are on the lower end of the scale for working conditions, or could be with the new Emb's coming online? I don't want to be negative, everyone sees greener grass.
Cheers
What would you say the majority of the flight crews gripes are on the lower end of the scale for working conditions, or could be with the new Emb's coming online? I don't want to be negative, everyone sees greener grass.
Cheers
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Jumpy,
Guys that were just recalled are already at the top of the EMJ fo list and the new hires in the coming year will become senior on the EMBJ quite fast.I have a friend who was on the second to last course and he is half way up the list.You might be B scale as you like to call it but b scale at AC beats A scale at Westjet.
Think I' m making it up? Go see the any airline pilot paytable website and you will see that base pay at WJ for an FO is around 50K. After 2 years here you will be at 70K if you are still on the EMBJ, 100k if on the 320.
Yes the high price of oil may affect things somewhat, I'll agree with that but there are 2 hard facts:1) 100-120 retirements per year means that even without growth you will need around 300 pilots in the next 3 years.
2) Embraers are arriving 3 each month and you need guys to fly them.There are 60 coming and 25 RJ' going for a growth of 35 ACFT at 5 crew per that' s about 170 crews or 340 pilots.
So 340 + 300= 640. I think that 600 is reasonable Jumpy.Of course Uncle Milton spoke with you and told you of his devilish plot to make us think we're getting 600 guys....Like that would change anything.
I know you WJ guys hope that we do badly and that will justify your decision for staying at WJ (or feel better about not getting in) any company anywhere in the world you run the risk of the hiring coming to a sudden stop and getting stuck junior guy on the totem pole and that applies to you too.
The thing is though that this is a risk a lot of guys cannot afford not to take.Yes the first 2 years aren't great, they coulsd be better.But if you had a chance after let's say 5 years to be a EMBJ capt making 130 K or 340 FO making 140K and eventually retiring a 340 capt at 240K or a 737 capt flying to Grand Prairie at120 K, wich do you think most would choose?
I took a HUGE pay cut to come to AC.
2 years after I was making close to double what I was making at my old company.Been here 7 years , seen the world,make a lot more than a WJ capt flying better equipment around the globe.
I've worked 2 Xmas's so far and eventhough I work some weekends I still get 16 days off.
So don't confuse people with talk of your B scale because it's short term pain for long term gain.
Guys that were just recalled are already at the top of the EMJ fo list and the new hires in the coming year will become senior on the EMBJ quite fast.I have a friend who was on the second to last course and he is half way up the list.You might be B scale as you like to call it but b scale at AC beats A scale at Westjet.
Think I' m making it up? Go see the any airline pilot paytable website and you will see that base pay at WJ for an FO is around 50K. After 2 years here you will be at 70K if you are still on the EMBJ, 100k if on the 320.
Yes the high price of oil may affect things somewhat, I'll agree with that but there are 2 hard facts:1) 100-120 retirements per year means that even without growth you will need around 300 pilots in the next 3 years.
2) Embraers are arriving 3 each month and you need guys to fly them.There are 60 coming and 25 RJ' going for a growth of 35 ACFT at 5 crew per that' s about 170 crews or 340 pilots.
So 340 + 300= 640. I think that 600 is reasonable Jumpy.Of course Uncle Milton spoke with you and told you of his devilish plot to make us think we're getting 600 guys....Like that would change anything.
I know you WJ guys hope that we do badly and that will justify your decision for staying at WJ (or feel better about not getting in) any company anywhere in the world you run the risk of the hiring coming to a sudden stop and getting stuck junior guy on the totem pole and that applies to you too.
The thing is though that this is a risk a lot of guys cannot afford not to take.Yes the first 2 years aren't great, they coulsd be better.But if you had a chance after let's say 5 years to be a EMBJ capt making 130 K or 340 FO making 140K and eventually retiring a 340 capt at 240K or a 737 capt flying to Grand Prairie at120 K, wich do you think most would choose?
I took a HUGE pay cut to come to AC.
2 years after I was making close to double what I was making at my old company.Been here 7 years , seen the world,make a lot more than a WJ capt flying better equipment around the globe.
I've worked 2 Xmas's so far and eventhough I work some weekends I still get 16 days off.
So don't confuse people with talk of your B scale because it's short term pain for long term gain.
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Yikes - I was hoping that this wouldn't become a WJ vs ACA mud slinging match.
Meaw - what is going to happen to all those guys currently flying the RJ? Will they simply move over to the EMBs as they come on line?
Jumpy - does WJ have expansion plans as well? probably not the same size or scale as ACA but will there be a proportional fleet or operations expansion for WJ?
I know a lot of CF/military guys are right now a little scared (or perhaps just leary) of stepping out to the private sector given the pay cuts, current oil prices, and the possibility of future economic downturns .... much like 2001 - 2003 proved to be for all concerned. Going from a safe 6 figure paycheque to a massive paycut to either WJ or ACA just sacres the "willies" out of a lot of us, but a small handful have made the cross over in the last month.
How many furloughs are going to be recalled back to ACA? While I do not understand the seniority system I am assuming that they will keep their "number" and jump ahead of these new hires that are currently being picked up.
Thanks for the insight guys ..... this is very interetsing reading - from all sides. It's good to hear what the competition is doing and what is happening on the other side of the fence .. as guys like me peer over the top [I'm too close to pension to make that jump over the fence right now].
Meaw - what is going to happen to all those guys currently flying the RJ? Will they simply move over to the EMBs as they come on line?
Jumpy - does WJ have expansion plans as well? probably not the same size or scale as ACA but will there be a proportional fleet or operations expansion for WJ?
I know a lot of CF/military guys are right now a little scared (or perhaps just leary) of stepping out to the private sector given the pay cuts, current oil prices, and the possibility of future economic downturns .... much like 2001 - 2003 proved to be for all concerned. Going from a safe 6 figure paycheque to a massive paycut to either WJ or ACA just sacres the "willies" out of a lot of us, but a small handful have made the cross over in the last month.
How many furloughs are going to be recalled back to ACA? While I do not understand the seniority system I am assuming that they will keep their "number" and jump ahead of these new hires that are currently being picked up.
Thanks for the insight guys ..... this is very interetsing reading - from all sides. It's good to hear what the competition is doing and what is happening on the other side of the fence .. as guys like me peer over the top [I'm too close to pension to make that jump over the fence right now].
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Herc,
All furlough's are back but yes you would keep your seniority number.
The CRJ guys are going to where their seniority permits them.
A big number are going Capt on the EMBJ.A lot of the FO's are going right seat on the 320.Almost none of the CRJ F'O's are going FO on the EMBJ though as most can now hold something higher......almost all EMBJ FO slots are filled by new hires.
Sorry didn't mean to make it a WJ vs. AC debate ( as there is none)
Cheers.......MEAW
All furlough's are back but yes you would keep your seniority number.
The CRJ guys are going to where their seniority permits them.
A big number are going Capt on the EMBJ.A lot of the FO's are going right seat on the 320.Almost none of the CRJ F'O's are going FO on the EMBJ though as most can now hold something higher......almost all EMBJ FO slots are filled by new hires.
Sorry didn't mean to make it a WJ vs. AC debate ( as there is none)
Cheers.......MEAW
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Meauw
Thank you once again ! As before u have been very kind in devoting time to give information to people like myself.
From your posts it appears that with the EMB coming + retirements if AC hires about 600 in the next 3 yrs then approx the first 150 might not see the position group in their 3rd yr since they would prob be able to hold a 320 FO. My calculation is based on the fact that 60 EMB would have the bottom 300 FO's + about 150 for the RP. Correct me if I am wrong ??
With regards to my q's on pension you stated 80% of the best 3 ys with max at 25 yrs service. I would assume that there would be a Cap on the pension or would the guys be getting over 150k in pension ??
Is the entitlement for personal travely Y class or Exec for Pilots ??
Of the 3100 Pilots at AC how many r Capts/FO/RP's
Thanks once again
Thank you once again ! As before u have been very kind in devoting time to give information to people like myself.
From your posts it appears that with the EMB coming + retirements if AC hires about 600 in the next 3 yrs then approx the first 150 might not see the position group in their 3rd yr since they would prob be able to hold a 320 FO. My calculation is based on the fact that 60 EMB would have the bottom 300 FO's + about 150 for the RP. Correct me if I am wrong ??
With regards to my q's on pension you stated 80% of the best 3 ys with max at 25 yrs service. I would assume that there would be a Cap on the pension or would the guys be getting over 150k in pension ??
Is the entitlement for personal travely Y class or Exec for Pilots ??
Of the 3100 Pilots at AC how many r Capts/FO/RP's
Thanks once again
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Always flying,
Sure, my pleasure
I hadn't thought of that but if nothing changes (for the worse or the better) give or take a few dozen numbers you would be right about the first 150 new hires.
Pension: i'm not an expert on the subject so I may be slightly off on my numbers but ballpark: no you are not penalized for staying longer than 25 years, you will get about 80% of the average of your best 3 years so if you were a 340 captain at lets say an average of 220,000 you would get about 176 000 pension.
If you leave before 25 years you get the average of your best 3 years MINUS a penalty wich depending on how early you go can be quite steep.
Personal travel is in Y but you may be upgraded to Business if economy is full or at the agent's discretion.You can pay a small fee for a pass thst gives you an upgrade to Business if space available.
O.K got the numbers
CAPT:1314
FO\'S: 1275
RP\'s:246
Sure, my pleasure
I hadn't thought of that but if nothing changes (for the worse or the better) give or take a few dozen numbers you would be right about the first 150 new hires.
Pension: i'm not an expert on the subject so I may be slightly off on my numbers but ballpark: no you are not penalized for staying longer than 25 years, you will get about 80% of the average of your best 3 years so if you were a 340 captain at lets say an average of 220,000 you would get about 176 000 pension.
If you leave before 25 years you get the average of your best 3 years MINUS a penalty wich depending on how early you go can be quite steep.
Personal travel is in Y but you may be upgraded to Business if economy is full or at the agent's discretion.You can pay a small fee for a pass thst gives you an upgrade to Business if space available.
O.K got the numbers
CAPT:1314
FO\'S: 1275
RP\'s:246
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A bit optimistic.......
Top rate is about 200k now. An uncle of mine has been there 32 years and is due to retire in two years......pension= 110k
176k pension ??? Not a chance
The EMB does have most of the furloughs and will have the new hires as well. Not until you are a 320 fo will you make the 80k. That will take junior fo's and new hires 3-4 years.
It's still a good gig, but the junior guys got hammered with the pay group ie: B-scale and the two year flat pay is ridiculus with probation being one year.
ACPA eats it's young
Top rate is about 200k now. An uncle of mine has been there 32 years and is due to retire in two years......pension= 110k
176k pension ??? Not a chance
The EMB does have most of the furloughs and will have the new hires as well. Not until you are a 320 fo will you make the 80k. That will take junior fo's and new hires 3-4 years.
It's still a good gig, but the junior guys got hammered with the pay group ie: B-scale and the two year flat pay is ridiculus with probation being one year.
ACPA eats it's young
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Jumpy 737 quote:
"The 600 pilots in the next two years was a rumour propagated by your management during negotiations for the 777 and 787. Have you heard this since then? I didn't think so..... No weekends off, no christmas off, no family birthdays off, and an uncertain schedule every month where you only have 4 days off that are guranteed. I would also guess that more A319/A320's will be leaving than you think which will put more people into the "b-scale"
The fact is AC is going through a priod of expansion. Add to that the retirements and the need for 600 new hires is actually an understatement. No management propoganda my friend, just the way it is. Only four days off a month guaranteed? BS. you can multiply that by at least three. The 319/20 leaving is also BS and if they did, most people would not be B scale or whatever you wish to call it. You obviously have no clue as to the way things are in the real AC. Someone has fed you some crap and you are more than happy to spread it. There is no truth to anything you claim. Too bad. This is supposed to be informative and real. As for the 777/87, you will see some in the near future with that dreaded new paint job. Oh well, I'll take them anyway.
"The 600 pilots in the next two years was a rumour propagated by your management during negotiations for the 777 and 787. Have you heard this since then? I didn't think so..... No weekends off, no christmas off, no family birthdays off, and an uncertain schedule every month where you only have 4 days off that are guranteed. I would also guess that more A319/A320's will be leaving than you think which will put more people into the "b-scale"
The fact is AC is going through a priod of expansion. Add to that the retirements and the need for 600 new hires is actually an understatement. No management propoganda my friend, just the way it is. Only four days off a month guaranteed? BS. you can multiply that by at least three. The 319/20 leaving is also BS and if they did, most people would not be B scale or whatever you wish to call it. You obviously have no clue as to the way things are in the real AC. Someone has fed you some crap and you are more than happy to spread it. There is no truth to anything you claim. Too bad. This is supposed to be informative and real. As for the 777/87, you will see some in the near future with that dreaded new paint job. Oh well, I'll take them anyway.
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Just ran the numbers on the pension estimator on the ACPA site if you retire in 2025 with 25 years in and your final salary is at $220,000 the yearly pension works out to $104,797/year.
so around 49 % would be closer but this is supposed to be changing to a higher % over the next few years as some improvments are implemented .
29
Also although all furlough pilots have been called back many have taken Leave of Absences and won't be back for 1-3 years and yes when they do they will take their postion back on the list from which they came.
so around 49 % would be closer but this is supposed to be changing to a higher % over the next few years as some improvments are implemented .
29
Also although all furlough pilots have been called back many have taken Leave of Absences and won't be back for 1-3 years and yes when they do they will take their postion back on the list from which they came.