Hi there folks. In danger of causing upset, can I just say that all the LHR crew who are talking about striking about new conditions, what happened to you guys supporting us little 'uns at LGW? We've had worse pay conditions, work conditions etc than you for years, we now work 3 crew on most 737's, we're doing mixed flying (looking like we'll lose our breakfast allowance) etc etc (I won't go on as you probably know most of it anyway). We just get on with it though... I'm not saying change is necessarily good, but how about finding out more details before talking about strike action? If another strike happens, we might all be out of a job, and that's what I and lots of others worry about. I'm not saying that all the new conditions rumoured are right or just, but please make sure the unions talk it through properly first. We're all colleagues at the end of the day and I hope we can all support each other on issues within the company.

Hope I haven't offended anyone, that wasn't my intentions (I'm just worried about job stability etc). Sending happy thoughts and happy vibes.

Hey Glamgirl.

I'm no expert on the LGW situation, but one thing I know for sure is that we had no union ballot at LHR about it. I know there was one for both Eurofleet LGW and LGW Worldwide though, the result of which came back supporting the proposal for the formation of Single Fleet LGW.

What I don't understand, is why the overwhelming majority of LGW crew voted for the new proposal without the fine print being written.

Don't get me wrong, I think it is outrageous how you guys are being treated down there. But surely there should have been a campaign to 'Vote No' in the ballot on LGW SF, or at least to ensure the fine print had been written before that 'Yes' box was ticked.

Single fleet LHR? I do not think so! This question was asked at the latest forum a couple of weeks ago and the answer was a clear no. So do not worry!

5 sector days? 5 manchester sectors maybe. Some airlines do 6 sector days.
Not that I would like that to happen or that I would agree to it. In fact I would tell the :mad: useless unions what I think about them once for all if that were the case.

Quite easily answered.

1. LGW WW wanted an easy way into LHR WW
2. LGW EF have been gagging for long haul and jumped at the first chance, signed the first piece of paper that came along, even though the conditions are ABSOLUTELY appalling compare to that of LHR.

Thats not quite right superboy.

LGW WW and LGW EOG voted in DIFFERENT ballots.

LGW EOG to accept Single Fleet LGW.

And LGW WW to accept the transfer options offered.

LGW WW had no 'yes' or 'no' vote in accepting single fleet.

LGW WW wanted an easy route to LHR WW, did they?? I think that most of those WW that are still based at LGW are there because they want to be. I had the opportunity to transfer to 'big school' in Aug 2005, but I was and am happy at LGW. I will be based at LHR in Feb, only because there will be no more routes at LGW for us WW crew to operate.

Keeperboy's last post is completely correct in that who was balloted about what.

Fare enough.

I stand to be corrected but last I heard only 3 out of the entire lgw ww base opted to transfer to sf gatwick. You yourself is happy at lgw but have also opted to go to lhr.

Yes lgw ww had different options but they still nomiated to "go up the road" and EOG still grabbed the first chance to get some LH no matter how bad the conditions.

Don't get me wrong I'm not anti LGW I'm actually pro LGW. However the t's & c's are horendous. Ie. LGW is profitable, LGW saved money etc. etc. but Hotels are being changed to airport hotels. GVA Hotel is at the end of the runway and you might as well be lying on the tarmac trying to get some sleep. However LGW Flight crew, LHR CC and LHR Flight crew get coached into town to a nice little hotel. Why am I and all at lgw not good enough to be in the same hotel as everyone else?

Don't even get me started on the money side of things, one of the dom's tried to tell me that I'm earning the same as someone at LHR.

Please don't turn this into a mud slinging match. Everybody is fully aware of what they signed up for and where they stand with the company. I'm pinning my hopes on the fact that we'll apparently start earning more as of FEB. Here's hoping.

I think I've been a bit misunderstood... I think single fleet in theory is a good thing for us at LGW, it's the breakfast situation that bugs me about that one.

The point I was trying to make, is that no matter what the company hits us with at LGW, we don't get the back-up we need from the union (you'd have thought bassa/cc89 at either base is the same, but no...), nor have we had any support from our colleagues at LHR. Basically what I'm saying, is that if LHR crew are looking for strike support from "little brother" about your recent issues (rumours or otherwise), then a lot of us are thinking why should we? We've been trying to join NSP for years now (as after all we all work for same company doing the same job), but the union reps at LHR have been putting spanners in the works constantly. Also, we've had no support for all the changes we've gone through in the last few years (3 crew, fewer nightstops, etc etc). I'm not saying that all crew at LHR are like this though, I have plenty of friends up there, most crew at LHR are absolutely lovely and I could've gone up there 5 years ago, but turned it down as I like LGW (believe it or not). It's just the different conditions and pay that irks me, really. Sorry if I've upset anyone.

I opted for LHR eventually as a) I live in Birmingham, not exactly handy for short haul and b) I am happy with the agreements I have with my contract. If the single fleet hadn't have happened, a lot of us going to LHR would happily stay where we are.

Don't get me wrong, I know you guys are getting a raw deal at the moment and I totally support you in any fight to get your agreements improved.

[quote=SuperBoy;3001662]Fare enough.
Don't get me wrong I'm not anti LGW I'm actually pro LGW. However the t's & c's are horendous. Ie. LGW is profitable, LGW saved money etc. etc. but Hotels are being changed to airport hotels. GVA Hotel is at the end of the runway and you might as well be lying on the tarmac trying to get some sleep. However LGW Flight crew, LHR CC and LHR Flight crew get coached into town to a nice little hotel. Why am I and all at lgw not good enough to be in the same hotel as everyone else?

quote]
i spoke to cc89 rep today and asked about us changing to airport hotels he said this was rubbish. they are looking at a new hotel in tampa as there have been a lot of complaints about it. the gva hotel is temp move while the hilton is being done up the move was so quick they could not get us all rooms in the same hotel so they split us up they are looking for another one somewhere else for a few moths

Well Where Do I Start
 

Guys

This has all been covered before on the BA LGW thread.

Superboy,

as someone who joined the Company just a little while ago from BMED you must have known all about the t&c's before you started? So why is it such a surprise that we are treated so differently. Would you have held out for other t&c's and risked losing everything. Do you really think the Company were going to offer us the same as WW LHR? They needed to save £13m so that was never going to happen.

I know the unions at LGW do their very best for us all. Yes they appear to give in a bit more easily but trust me they don't. As someone who has seen plenty of discussions from both sides of the coin, the Company have us over a barrel and they know it.

Put yourself in the shoes of a LGWWW crew member what would you have done when faced with this dilemma - do I take a 40/50% pay cut and stay where I really love to be or do I keep my money and work somewhere where I choosen not to in the past? WWLGW didn't want an easy way into WWLHR they already had it. It was just a case of waiting for those who had joined recently, however for most they already had the opportunity to go but choose not to.

Please see my note about the GVA hotel on the other thread. Did you do a report about how noisy the hotel was?

"2. LGW EF have been gagging for long haul and jumped at the first chance, signed the first piece of paper that came along, even though the conditions are ABSOLUTELY appalling compare to that of LHR."

That statement just gets right on my breasts:mad: Try having been in the company for 9 years putting up with all the cr@p. Then someone who's been in the Company since May comes along and makes a stupid comment like that. I just hope I don't find I'm flying with you soon.

Rant over!!

Glamgirl,

Unfortunatey it has always been the same with the WW LHR unions. They see us as a base that doesn't really matter. It's only when the changes that we have had to put up with start happening to them that they start getting on the high horses. How dare the Company do this to us! Oh it already happens at LGW, really?:mad:

Yes the single fleet at LGW is great for us and I do feel genuinely sorry for the new recruits that have been sat around on loads of days off and STBY's earning no money. All I can say is, it has to change once all the routes come over in February. Don't forget that we only have had until recently four of the nine routes.

Let's wait and see what happens with b&b, after all it is in our MOA.

YD

I'm sorry you feel that way. How many drafts were set up for sf before it was accepted?

However whether you have been with the company for 9 years or 9 months doesn't change the fact that the t & c's aren't even a third of LHRs. I never expected the same t & c's as LHR but I did expect to be able to live. Add to that the fact that I was blatantly lied to by the recruiters up at the rivers with regards to how much money can be expected (no I'm not alone in this as I have asked alot of people who have joined in the past year and the same recurring amounts come up)

I like working for BA, the people are fantastic and I enjoy it tremendously but If you saw my pay slips you would understand why I am not as happy as I and so many others could be. I'm not asking for very much but hey I've only been at BA for a few seconds so I guess I'm not entitled to anything. :ouch:

Superboy,

Perhaps I was a bit strong and I apologise. However to say that LHRWW earn three times as much is pushing a bit far.

Before the massive recruitment to cover the new SF maincrew were earning about 1200-1400 on average a month. You have to understand that at the moment the wages are not normal (as I said further down my post).

Don't know who you have been speaking to but maincrew at LHR do not earn 3600 per month.

Speaking to some of the temp WW people on my flight the other day, they came up with the figure of around 1800-2200 on an exceptional month. Working things out in my head I would expect maincrew to earn between 1300-1600 once and I repeat once all the routes come over. You must be able to live on that.

"like working for BA, the people are fantastic and I enjoy it tremendously but If you saw my pay slips you would understand why I am not as happy as I and so many others could be. I'm not asking for very much but hey I've only been at BA for a few seconds so I guess I'm not entitled to anything."

So what are you asking for? If it is continual long haul then you have to understand two things;
1. All the new people have to be kept current on the B777 so trips will be limited.
2. Being a base that has preferential bidding, newer people will never acheive a 100% hit rate on their bids.

I know that is not what you want to hear but it is the unfortunate truth.

BTW, did you report the GVA hotel?

YD

Super, I totally see your point. Many of the ex-LGW EOG crew that I fly with at LHR WW say they still miss the people from LGW EOG and that although the t&c's were bad, they had a great time.

I guess the problem with LGW is that it is often seen as an 'entry point' or 'stepping stone' to either quick-ish promotion or LHR. Crew down there don't seem to hang about as long as the BA average (120 years LOL), I know there are some exceptions but most people hang about til they can get transferred out or promoted.

There always seems to be a ready supply of young, enthusiastic crew down there whom don't kick up too much of a fuss and are just happy to be flying for BA.

As nice as the ex-EOG people I fly with are, once they are out of LGW EOG they seem to be quite happy to forget the conditions at LGW and what they have left behind. Whether anyone thinks this is right or wrong I guess is down to personal opinion.

There is also the 'numbers' issue. Now as the old saying goes 'safety in numbers!'. I have no idea what the exact split is of the 14,500 odd BA cabin crew. I know that WW LHR has about 8000 ish, EF LHR 3800 ish and the rest made up of ex WW LGW, LGW SF, EF MAN, EF GLA/EDI and ICC. So, around 12000 of the total are based at LHR. It sort of stands to reason that BA management would have more success chomping away at the benefits/t&c's of the 'easy game' (small bases) before starting on the jewel in their money saving crown, LHR. Whether they will risk pi**ing off the crew at LHR and potentially seeing their cash cow shut down for a few days is yet to be seen.

We DO know that the conditions are crap at LGW super. But, without sounding brutal, the crew at LHR tend to think there are a lot more bigger (on more personal to them) issues at hand than defending the t&c's LGW.

Unfair, YES. But at the end of the day, the general concensus is that those at LGW a) signed up for the deal, and, b) only need to 'serve their time' before transferring out anyway.

It is VITALLY important that you, your colleagues and Pursers stand up and be counted. Most of us in this profession are recruited as we are 'caring' and even with unrealistic crew compliments we still rush like mad to serve that last row.

DON'T DO IT

If 3 crew on a 737 or 10 crew on a LGW 777 aren't enough then don't break your back to serve everyone. If you miss out the last three rows because you are on a full 737 with 3 crew TOUGH. Apologise to all the un-served passengers, explain that there are only 3 of you to serve 140-odd of them, give them a comments card each and encourage them all to send it back in with their thoughts. Likewise with passengers on the 777 that aren't happy. BA will have to do something to stop the tide of complaints. If no-one is complaining and the job is getting done, managers will think it works just fine! Likewise for crap hotels. Get all the crew to fill out a report about the unsatisfactory noise/standard. And if any of your Cabin Managers think they are CSD's and can stroll around a 777 all flight leaving 9 working crew, again, stand up and be counted. Tell them otherwise!

I think the LGW SF situation is really an issue that can be sorted out by you guys down there standing together and having the conviction to stand up and be counted.

If I remember correctly, BA/your union need 7-10 reports in one week in order to look into any problems with hotels. So, the more of you do it, the more chance of something being sorted out.

I did a IAH last week and saw 2 WW Temps pay slips and it really was nearly 3 times what I earn currently at lgw. I know the circumstances are not normal at LGW thus I'm waiting for feb as are we all.

I don't want to go into too much detail wrt current wages but like I said I'm not asking for much.

I'm actually bidding for sh trips and am getting myself on the airbus.

Like I said I'm aware of all of this. I probably have not expressed myself clearly. I am pro LGW it's just hard to see the silver lining at the moment.

It was put on the flight report. I would've liked to email someone wrt to the hotel and get a response but no one I spoke to seem to be very accommodating with a contact person.

The same goes for the new hotel in IAH.

Go Superboy!

I'm with you all the way!:D

Well well. What an exciting turn this thread has taken!

I would like to get behind everything YD has said firstly about this issue (not the personal stuff about others).

I would like to add however that superboy is very good at his job and is not the type to voice his discontent and bring others down or let it affect his proffesionalism on board or attitude to customers (well done SB).

My own personal feelings on these issues are this.... (if anyone's interested)

I voted YES for SFLGW because it was indeed a way forward for EFLGW which was in fairness a fleet that could not go down in morale any further. and of course I wanted an opportunity to do something different and the chance to go up the ladder and earn more money.

I put my faith in the unions that they would do their best and then live with the consequences.

Well... I for one was not totally happy with the package put together for SFLGW. Mostly the CM package (which more work than CSD and less money), and of course now we have all the wrangling with breakfast and the tipping etc etc.

I am of course a realist and knew that a crew member would be taken off and we'd lose a PSR maybe. But hey BA would probably get their way or the union would come to a compromise.

I still think we need a extra PSR of the 4 class, and I guess we'll see if that happens.

What really gets me now is this......(deep breath)

While all this SF negotiation was going on I never once saw a message from either union (particularly for LHR) saying how outrageous the SF proposal was and how everyone was going to go on strike then if it was passed and CSD was done away with and we lost a PSR etc etc etc.

Now....I'm no brain of Britain, or fortune teller. BUT ANY IDIOT COULD SEE THAT IF SFLGW WAS ALLOWED TO GO AHEAD AND OPPERATE 777 UNDER THE T&C'S WE DO NOW, THAT IT WOULD ONLY BE A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE THEY TRY TO DO IT AT LHR!

I'm a little supprised they've attempted it this soon, but hey...it shows they mean business.

I'm also very sceptical of the fact that the fact that ONLY WHEN THE CSD RANK IS THREATENED AT LHR IS IT NOW AN ISSUE.

Again...any idiot could see that if you let it get dissolved at LGW then it will eventually happen at LHR. The rot will have already set in!!!:ugh:

Retreating within fortress LHR is not going to save you as the management and accountants are living in there with you!!!!:eek:

SO.. now when the reps at LHR (all CSD's pretty much I think) realise that theri jobs are now up for grabs by the company the toys are out of the pram and STRIKE STRIKE is the call (and we're all supposed to join in).

I realise their are lots of other issues tagged onto this ballot as well, many just and with foundation.

However don't bleat on about losing the CSD rank or making it a working position or "just look at your SCM colleagues at LGW".

THEY LET IT HAPPEN. EFLGW could have been absorbed into the NSP years ago and none of this rubbish would be happening now...but no. The LHR unions didn't want it, so it didn't happen.

Now look what's happened. All that eliteism and xenophobia that was directed at EOG/EFLGW is now coming back to bite them in the arse. And it could have all been prevented.

Do I sound bitter? Good! I am when it comes to this subject. All this talk of we all have to rally to the war cry of STRIKE STRIKE and be one team/unit/community.

WE'RE NOT ONE COMMUNITY! There's LHR/ and what's left of WWLGW, and then there's everyone else.

By selling EOG/EFLGW/SFLGW down the river all these years and not allowing us into your precious NSP and allowing our T&C's to be dilluted down again and again, you've ended up selling your own down the river by giving the company a template (SFLGW) to bash you over the head with now at every negotiation by saying "Well they do it this way at LGW. We want to do it here at LHR. And why not? If they can do it, why can't you?"

If we'd all been one community we wouldn't be where we are now.

Make's my blood boil!:mad:

It's a difficult call this one. Any workforce will fight to keep the most favourable conditions, but unfortunately for BA WW crews, the tide is totally against them. The airline industry is nowadays based on the low cost model (no just in the sense of no frills on board!) and BA WW crews are the only UK aircrews working under very dated and inflexible terms and conditions. The market forces demand that airlines have minimal costs in order to survive such a competitive field, and what was right for crews in 1993 is no longer true. Other airlines have proved that you do NOT need 4 pursers on a 747 and a "CSD", for example! The CSD role.....no comment.

Why have WW crews allowed the rest of the BA operation (regions, LGW, overseas ground staff) to take huge cuts, while they sat back and counted their pennies? Now they are under threat, they expect everyone to come running to the rescue - guess what, people won't.

Harsh words? Possibly, but change is around the corner in one sense or another. Food for thought: in view of other regions/airports taking massive cuts, what do LHR crews propose they can do to make the operation more cost effective? Are crews actually prepared to do anything?

I do agree, we are paid very well in terms of the industry we are in. However, it isn't ALL about money for all of us. I would trade in a proportion of my take home pay for less flying and greater flexibility IN A FLASH.

I have a friend whom flies for KLM longhaul. He earns about 30% less than I do. However, he bids for every one of his trips and works so little that he has a second job. In fact, he sees going to work like going on holiday. Similar for another friend who flies for AF. They are able to be flexible with their days off, for example, by taking only a day or two off a short trip and have a bunch of greater days off together later in the month.

The reality of life at LHR WW: we can request two days off in the country a month. We can request two trips per year. All of these are REQUESTS and so are often not granted. Promotion (as current with a CSD and FOUR Pursers on a jumbo) takes around 10 years. Same for First Class training. Part-time: Whats that????

Now A LOT of this is down to our own doing. Because of the complexity of our ancient scheduling 'agreements' we have where as a certain number of days are fixed per trip etc etc etc.

Change for us at LHR WW would not necessarily be a bad thing in many respects. I cannot justify the need for a CSD and 4 Pursers on a jumbo. I totally understand the reasons WHY the union doesn't want the position removed (freeze on promotion, redundancy etc) but we still know that it is a tough one to justify.

Ditto the hourly rate. A 3 day Cairo for us based on the current 'meal allowence' system is worth about £60. A 3 day BOM or DEL isn't worth much more. Many crew are saying that it is time that the hourly rate be looked at again, as it is only a repacement for meal allowances and not box payments, overtime etc.

As for the scheduling agreements. Well, personally I would rather get rid of many of the agreements we do have and see them replaced with more flexible agreements, ones that can work both to MY advantage AND to BA's.

The sticking point though, seems to be the 'bully boy tactics. I don't just apply this to BA management (who definitely are bullys) but also to many of the BASSA reps (whom display total ignorance and arrogance at times). I AM a member of BASSA because it is absolutely necessary in BA.

I just wish that it could be a bit of give and take:

BA Manager: "we want to change X, Y and Z and we are prepared to give you this in return...."

But it never happens like that. It is just like "we want to take x, y and z and then we've got that we will come back for a, b and c......".

Now I know BASSA probably aren't the best at 'negotiating' either. I just wish they could find some common ground and a deal that would benefit the ENTIRE crew community as well as BA.

Unlike many people here I voted against the first and only SFLGW proposal. I found so many loops that the company would use in its favour that I was actually boiling with anger when I put my thoughts across (supported by the proof black on white) to the then CC89 LGW reps, who could only say "well we want it and if you do not agree you should vote against it. What the company wanted in the first place was much worse, you now get one extra day off per month!" I couldn't believe my ears.

I voted against because I knew that this SFLGW move was absolutely necessary for BA as it is nowadays, they needed it, not me, and if only we had all stuck together we probably would have obtained a better deal. It's like trying to buy a rug in the middle east, just a bit more complicated, but it's the same bloody game.

Having said that, the T&Cs I was under just before last october were already much worse than when I joined, so no, I didn't sign up for them at all, they imposed them on me and us all at EFLGW, so as they've done it with us they can do it with anybody else.
LGW has set a precedent which almost none of the thousands of LHR crew/unions cared about at that time thinking they were in a fortress, now this non-caring attitude is coming back to bite you in the rear. Not that I do not feel for you, don't misunderstand me, but I know it's just the inevitable truth.

It's just a matter of time, so far all what I was foreseeing has become a sad reality for us, so I am absolutely certain that it doesn't matter what you guys do or not do, it will happen. Willie could as well be speaking in german and I wouldn't notice the difference.

I hope this will teach us all something.

FBW

Keeperboy I like your attitude. Some changes might be for the better, it's up to you all to fight for them though. Be tough, give up something but do try to get something equally important for you in return.

I love my lifestyle at LGW, (although I haven't tried BA's LH ops yet) I like the fact I can bid whether to do trips or stay in the country, whether to have certain days off and I like the fact I can call anytime and get a leave day for the following day. Not once have I been told it was not available. I can change my leave around after the rosters have been published to make it suit me better and so on.

Yes we earn less and have got ongoing issues, but for all the money in the world I wouldn't like to have a deal like the WW one where you struggle to get your 2 requests per year. There's life outside work for many of us, I adore my job but my personal like is much more important, takes precedence over anything else and I am happy that I can achieve a good life/work balance doing what I love most.
We are considered the "poor" BA crew, but we're not that poor, really, if you consider all the things as a whole :)

FBW

PS:for YD :E I should celebrate now, this is my 737th post on pprune ;)

I get the feeling that the SFLGW will ultimately be an all round winner, for crews and BA. As keeperboy says, the current terms and conditions at LHR WW do actually restrict crews themselves...creating sickness...meaning the company try and get on top of sickness...meaning crew get upset at being challenged for being sick....leading to BA wanting to change the policy...leading to crews getting annoyed at any change in terms.....a right little vicious circle!

I don't think the bullyboy tactics work, but maybe a series of trials for proposed changes might give LHR crews food for thought.

Yellowdog if that is true then that would be maneagable. Just out of interest apparently the promotion from Main Crew to Purser will be relatively quick at LGWSF for the right people, what is the jump in basic to the bottom of the Purser scale?

about £4,500 p.a. basic salary more than new main crew.

Thanks for that FBW, not loads but a definite improvement, there may be light at the end of the tunnel afterall!

test
 

test test test test test:ugh:

All,

Firstly I would like to openly apologise to Superboy once again. It wasn't meant as apersonal attack on him, and if it came across that way then I'm sorry.:\ :\ :\ I must have been tired, emotional, and a bit the worse for wear:(

Trouble is this is such an emotive issue sometimes things get the better of me. Which funnily enough, for those who know me, isn't like me at all.

Anyway enough of the backtracking and apologising.

RNBOI,
FBW is right and the Purser promotion is about £14200, I think.

Keeperboy,
I really respect your attitude as well. I seem to think that WW conditons will have to change to suit the Company. However it does still get my back up when they ask for our support for the strike when, to tell you the truth, they have never given two pennies for us.

WLITS,
Once again you are the voice of reason. Thank you for supporting my thoughts. I, along with FBW by the sounds of things, was one of the few that voted against the whole SF fleet thing. Not because I didn't want the LH but because I was hoping that as the Company needed SF fleet more than we did then the t&c's may have been better. But saying that I am enjoying the trips and my money has improved considerably.

Superboy,
Once again it wasn't personal. The person you need to contact is, firstly your union. Write a complaint letter to them. Then copy in the person who is in charge of the GVA hotel. This info can be found on the intranet under the crew hotel guide. Each hotel has a person who looks after it.
I'm sorry you were lied to by recruitment what sort of figures did they quote you? I have just looked at my allowances for November and I can say that the LH is making a considerable difference.
I do look forward to flying with you, especially as WLITS says you are great at your job. Hopefully we can let bygones be bygones.

As I said in my original post I do feel really sorry for the new recruits because the money is so poor. It will get better though I'm sure, so if you enjoy what you do stick it out.

YD
Who will think before he types anything else:}

I'm getting fed up with all you LGW crew saying everything is inevitable. ITS NOT!!!! Unfortunately LGW has always been screwed by the company and was formed from the ops of many airlines that ALREADY had inferior T&C's to LHR.... There seems to be this sense at LGW that "we've always been shafted and we don't deserve any better and I'm not in the union anyway". When SFG was proposed all everyone at LGW EF could see was the chance of longhaul and were blinded by it. LGW WW DID NOT VOTE on terms and conditions of SF, we only voted on the transfer to LHR. LGW EF accepted the SF deal , BASSA did the best they could but didn't have a strong hand ( because of the attitude of LGW crews), they DO at LHR.All crew should all log on to the BA BASSA website and see whats happening and educate yourselves. LHR is a much different base in terms of militancy and backbone than LGW. I say this as an ex LGW WW. So join your colleagues at LHR. VOTE YES and stop accepting everything as a done deal.:ugh:

Can BA long haul cabin crew "sell" days off?
 

Can BA long haul cabin crew "sell" days off? i.e. if BA run short of Cabin Crew what do they do? Do they just cancel flights or do they offer money to crews on their days off

If so what is the rate of pay?

Twistediamond,
Well done for strengthening the LGW/LHR divide. I am in favour of striking but your post was inflamatory and I fear that it will turn more LGW crew against LHR and agaist a "yes" in the ballot.
Just an observation.

I agree entirely. Gives me (and probably many, many others) no motivation whatsoever to compromise my position in the company to give you guys a hand. :=

As for inevitable stuff, we'll see.... :hmm:
I have just read the CC News which states that the new EF service (which includes reduction in crewing levels) at LHR is well received by both customers and crew. WE know it's the opposite, really, they did it with EF LGW and now they're doing it with EF LHR in the exact same way. Did the big Bassa do anything to prevent that? Maybe. Were they successful? Ehm.....don't think so! Not until now anyway. Changes are happening, whether you want it or not.
Bad way of thinking on my part - I was famous in school for being the first to organize demonstrations and strike for the students' unions - but BA is another story. We have Willie up there. If you manage to piss him off big-time he has soooo many weapons in his pocket, you wouldn't believe.

I have seen an airline which was very dear to me close for one day just to re-open the following day with completely different t&c's......at that point it was a "take it or leave it and be grateful I am not making you re-apply for your jobs" situation........Many BA crew wouldn't even be given the job a second time if they had to be interviewed again....

FBW:mad:

Guys from what I read I don't think my post made any difference. None of you were in the mood to support LHR anyway but I certainly didn't want to drive a wedge especially at a time when we should all be standing together. I had just come from compass was a bit tired and emotional and guess I was a bit pissed off because like it or not there is a sense on this thread that LHR are getting what they deserve.

ps maybe lack of backbone was a bit strong but you have to admit there is alot more apathy amongst LGW crew.

Diamonddolly contrary to popular belief EVERYTHING isn't always about LHR.

I'm much more interested in whats happening at LGW right now, same as LHR have been doing for years. Once LGW is sorted out then I'm open to possibilities wrt LHR.

There are many more factors but I would concider a strike if it affected all of us not just LHR. Losing the CSD position at LHR (we have CM at LGW) would not be one of them. Harsh I know but true.

As FBW said WW has many more tricks up his sleave. So far he has gotten away with everything that he has done and has anyone stopped him? Has anyone tried? Has anyone even attempted to stand up and say NO! I rest my case.

YD,
I didn't take it personally, as I have said many times before we all have different points of view and that is what makes this forum interesting. I too hope to fly with you. :)

Well your supposition was in fact wrong!
I personally was going to go ahead despite 1) I am not in NAPS 2) I am grounded and my striking wouldn't affect BA anyway.

I'd second that, I know lots of LGW crew that would strike. Me included. But posts as yours makes me think otherwise, when you post on here as LHR crew you represent a lot of people. Some people will think that your oppinion is the general oppinion of LHR crew as its mainly LGW crew that tend to post here, shooting yourself in the foot a tad my dear.

Guys think of me what you will but since I don't think you all have access to BASSA atleast read this please..

OPEN LETTER FROM THE BASSA BRANCH SECRETARY 08 December 2006
A message from the Branch Secretary – Ideologies clashing.

Having being involved with BASSA either as a rep or Branch Secretary for 15 years now I have seen at close hand how BA Industrial Relations behave. I have been involved in a few strikes and have lived to tell the tale but even I was amazed yesterday at the attitude of David LeBrecht who is the head of BA Industrial Relations.

At a meeting called to try and resolve our problems his barely concealed aggression, his outrageous statements, his dismissive manner and basically everything about him had the exact opposite effect in producing the better relationship that BA claim they want. If ever there was a case of throwing fuel onto an open fire it was Mr LeBrecht’s performance yesterday. 24 hours later the reps that were present are still shaking their heads in amazement and, to be frank, anger. To re-introduce the topic of hourly flying pay beggars belief. He would have done less harm had he thrown a live grenade into the air.

I went into that meeting hoping that we would see a shift in BA IR policy and maybe, with it, an improvement in our relationship. Well we did see a shift, a big one but it was in the wrong direction, and then some.

Being a curious man I always try and “comprehend” where the other side are coming from or, at least to try and view things from their perspective, but what I saw yesterday chilled me to the bone. BA are now completely driven by cutting costs to such an extent that they are becoming blinkered. Mr LeBrecht frequently mentioned BA’s desire to be competitive which is why he feels justified in attacking your terms and conditions and why he stated that your terms and conditions would get worse. Now I understand the desire to be competitive (and here is where BASSA and BA ideologies clash) but not to the extent where the employees suffer because of it. There are lots of ways of being competitive in the market place and keeping the workforce happy but sadly BA management are not interested in the latter. BA must be competitive at all costs is the BA mantra and look out if you do not choose to go along with them. It is this mad compulsive philosophy that must change if BASSA and BA are to ever work together again. Under David LeBrecht it is evident BA are determined to drive a coach and horses through everything we hold dear. This brings me to one of the fundamental reasons as to why we are asking you to take industrial action. It is not only because of all the “failures to agree” which we have outlined in the forthcoming newsletter but equally importantly it is to make BA see sense and to moderate this obsession that to be more competitive at all costs is the only way. I am not a businessman but I would have thought one of the best ways to be more competitive was to keep your workforce happy. BA need to understand this.

Finally as I said at the beginning I have experienced quite a few disputes with BA over the years but I can never remember such overwhelming support before. My computer has, since the orange flyer was sent, received nearly 1000 e mails from members offering support and checking to see if their details are correct. Literally hundreds of new members have joined BASSA in the last week. This is really heart warming and I can vouch that the reps have been much bolstered and heartened by your support. These are not pleasant times. From the amazing remarks made yesterday it is clear BA do not have a clue about how you feel. Come the close of the ballot I have a feeling there might be a rude awakening!

Thank you – Duncan Holley.

DD,

As you are so involved with all this.

If LHR goes on strike and LGW doesn't will that change the outcome? As there are 14000 crew at LHR and only 1350 at LGW.

Say LGW decide to strike along with LHR how will this change anything for LGW?

Shocking as your description of Mr. Lebrechts attitude is, you forget that at LGW we are already working these "eroded conditions" and have already set the benchmark. I doubt that they can make much more cutbacks at LGW as we are already operating min crew.

I am sorry for the predicament that LHR find themselves in but I am yet to see a persuasive argument as to why LGW should also go on strike. Believe me I am desperately looking for a good enough reason.

I do however sincerely hope that LHR prevail over the corporate giant maybe that will give us the morale boost that most of us so desperately need.

Hypothetically speaking: LHR & LGW strikes. TU magnanomously prevail over BA then what? TU forget about LGW again.

It's happened before and it will happen again.

Apologies for the negativity but BA does what it wants and in my very limited dealing with the union so far I have found the reps to be disinterested and completely clueless (perhaps I caught them on the wrong days, everytime)

I struggle to find a good enough reason for strike action on a couple of LHR issues...

Losing a purser on the jumbo (you have another 2 or 3, right?)

Making the CSD role a working position (At least you get a CSD and we're the only airline with a non-working position on board. CSD's get paid a vast amount of money, at least they could do some work for it - yes, I know some do...)

3 crew (we do this at LGW and most of the time, it's a pain in the backside, stressful and hectic. We also have lots of new entrants down here that we haven't got time to keep an eye out for due to this operation. No support from our "colleagues" at LHR though... and no ballot either)

I know changes in this industry are pants sometimes, but seriously, some of these issues needs to be addressed by the company in order for us all to survive and have a job. I'm not pro-BA, I think management stink most of the time, however, a militant union who walk out during talks and refuse to budge or listen is not doing anybody any favours.

Out of interest, I'm just wondering what these outrageous statements from what's-his-name were and what the actual proposals are please?

Superboy.

For me what it really boils down to is my union asked me to strike. They would only do this if everything else had failed. I am on the new pay scale, have a !!!! pension and 14 years working for bmi before BA..so I know crap conditions... I value my My conditions so much and want to keep them and keep flying as a career a posiblity. the individual issues though I agree with most aren't the crux of the matter. BASSA needs our support. If we don't strike and the company percieves BASSA membership aren't really bothered BASSA will never be taken seriously again and there will be no protection for anyone at BA. and BA will be able to do anything. Surely thats bad news for all of us?

Guess I'm pretty more caught up in this than I thought. Bassa is no way a perfect union and I know gatwick have real issues which they don't feel are even priorities for the union. I can't really say thats not true. But can you imagine how much worse it could be without bassa?

sorry to antagonise everyone but I guess I love my job and want to fly for another 20 yrs but not if i'm always going to be just earning enough and tired . I've done that already.