Qantas Cabin Crew UK to close?
 

It is rumoured that due to the link-up with Emirates that is to be announced next week, the LHR base will be closed down.

Is there any truth in this rumour?

Rumoured is probably the right word!

Qantas will still operate in and out of LHR, With I presume the same frequency as they currently do!

I would imagine the crews might just see a different part of the world.

If anything the business will wait until the dust settles to see which cost efficiencies work best... perhaps its worth keeping in mind the initial base establishments costs are quite high, additionally that the base was opened when there were 4 QF flts a day to Asia... 3 of which were crewed by QFCCUK and QAL was the majority operating 747 flts. Now we have QCCA to the mix in addition to QFCCUK each with their different cost efficiencies with associated advantages.

Its best to keep in mind the cost efficiencies primarily lie with the labour cost per hour of the work group, not with hotels & allowances - a common misconception.

So Lizzy, your short answer is "yes" then?

The abacus are working very hard these days...

DXB Shuttle ?
 

Flight time from LHR to DXB is somewhere between 6:30hrs and 7:15 dependant on the time of year and the subsequent prevailing winds.Factor in a 90 min turnaround time and the duty is around 16hrs.
If it does not become a shuttle then slip time will be determined by flight frequency.If its daily frequency with a fight time EX LHR of say 7:00hrs the slip would be around 20hrs
If the bean counters consider one or the other do able the base will close itself down through an accelerated attrition rate.With the cessation of through traffic from Asia to the UK flights will reduce as will destinations for LHR based CC.
The numbers required for the base will also decline.The base as an operational entity then becomes marginal.
Good Luck.

Any talk of "Dubai returns" and turn around times etc. is a complete waste of time. Both aircraft arrive into Dubai and then continue to either Melbourne or Sydney

A 20 or so hour slip as you suggested is probably likely. That would mean trips would be shorter and worth less hours. Thus more trips on an 8 week roster.

Back in the days when the LHR base crew flew to HKG, Qantas were able to roster a 20 hour slip because of the way the schedule worked in and out of Australia/UK. After a while this reverted to a 44 hour slip due to crew fatigue issues. However the Dubai flight are obviously a lot shorter so I doubt the company would apply the same benefit to rostering these trips

Scenario
 

The arrival gates for the north and south services are adjacent to each other.
The LHR CC bring the southbound aircraft in.The northbound aircraft arrived an hour before and has been cleaned and dressed.The southbound CC disembark their passengers,walk next door to the northbound aircraft(do the mandatory safety and equipment checks) and begin boarding passengers for a continuation of the northbound service to LHR.It is feasible and if found to be cost effective it will be introduced.Airline mangement are not benevolent people.All they care about is the bottom line

If the cabin crew are working under UK FTLs they won't be doing that!

Absolutely. Besides which, even if it was possible it would be extremely tight and there would be no lee way for delays. The operation would be unreliable.

Bean Counters
 

Cost Benefit analysis.
QF management are dodgy at best.Look at how they run Jetstar and how they bend the work rules of their pilots and CC.
I'm not saying for a minute that its moral,fair or reasonable but if they can get away with it they will

It is not possible, repeat not possible, under UK FTL's to operate to the the Gulf and back in one duty period.

Please be aware that there are some contributors to PPRuNe who will intentionally post inflammatory rubbish in pursuit of their own personal agenda: There is an established history of such activities on QF related threads and a cursory look at previous posts from captainrats will very quickly show you where things are coming from in this particular instance.

This doesn't mean that there won't be changes in the future for UK based QF crew - I have absolutely no idea what the future hold for any of us, including myself. What is absolutely certain however is that under present UK FTL's, nobody will be operating round trip Gulf flights, a duty period that would be closer to 17 hours on a two sector duty.

Lets not forget the internal '5yr plan' is still under draft stages & most likely stay this way for a while yet under the 'dust settles' post winter schedule 2013 and the full implementation of the asian point2point strategy. In the mean time, secondments galore for everyone to keep the numbers fluid & flexible.

After all it all depends on base numbers & cost efficiencies, just like we saw in 2008/9 with QAL operating a majority of LHR flights and LHR operating a significantly smaller portion, LWOP, PT and 75% rosters were offered to LHR first before QAL.

Apologies
 

I take no pleasure in others misfortune nor do I seek to make sport of it.
My concern is with rthe appalling Qantas management who throught their lack of aviation acumen and their total disregard for their employees has destroyed an airline whose proud history and name I love and cherish.
If I have caused angst or concern with my posts I unreservedly apologize.
The issue here about shuttles from LHR to DXB appears to have been resolved with the intervention of the moderator

Actually TightSlot, Cabin Crew UK employees, even though based in the UK, operate on VH (Aussie) registered aircraft, therefore come under CASA (Aussie) rules regarding everything, including Flight Limitations. Thats why they can get away with rostering CCUK crew up to 240hrs in a two month roster.
As CASA doesnt have much in concrete about Flight Duty Limits for cabin crew, it would depend on what is in the local contract there is in regards to multi-sector flight limits. Aussie based crew couldnt do a 17hr mutli sector day (the limit here is 14 hrs planned duty for a multi sector day...but thats only in our contract/EBA...nothing to do with CASA).
So basically, if it's within their contract limits they can do it. Although I am sure their union would have something to say about it.
I'm not too sure what their current contract says about multisector duties.

A quick look at the schedules will answer the question.
Flights from LHR arrive into DXB at 07:20 and 08:20.
Flights from DXB depart to LHR at 01:10 and 02:05.
Looks like a 16 hour slip.

Yes it will be day rest for the LHR crew.

Arrive in the morning with pick up late the same evening!

Who says that LHR crew will just operate to DXB ? They could easily cross crew and send crew through to SYD or MEL as 7-8 day trips.

There are planned ground schools for secondments for MAM to QCCA A380, QD/QAL to A380 and also AKL based Jetconnect crew will be converted to A380 from November( not sure if it will be a sole A380 endorsment or additional endorsment on top of their current 767/330/744 ).

With the massive increase in crew numbers for A380 fleet I suspect all crew regardless of base will follow QF1/2/9/10 to the final destination in future patterns.

Costs
 

Slipping north and south bound CC in DXB means only one hotel and two sets of allowances.If LHR based CC continue onto SYD and/or MEL it means more hotels and more allowances.With each CC returning to there home ports costs are minimized.
The penny pinchers in finance will be onto that.Also a rumour floating around that the DUgong may fly to JNB.Yes the rumour has been around for a while but it persists.

With the reduction in flights leaving only 2 LHR services and the new DXB route further reducing layover/alowances I would expect QFUK would be a little less desirable for many - especially commuters.

I mean if you are used to doing long haul with 2 nigth layovers and having a few days off after back - moving to 1 night layovers with less allowances and less days off back at base will not be apealling.. I'm not 100% sure on QFUK's minimum days off etc but if it were say 2 days you could probably get 12 trips i an 8 week roster.

Further Speculation
 

A rumour doing the rounds of the Sydney CC base is that the LHR base will close and be replaced by a DXB base.Doesnt seem viable or cost effective.But then again airline management make some very strange decisions.
Whichever way it goes good luck to all those who may be affected

Any news on changes/closure of the Qantas UK base and how the DXB trips will be scheduled?

Patterns for the next roster when DXB starts should be out in the next few days. LHR base to stay for the moment and possibility of new recruitment for Arabic speakers (as has been advertised in Australia) and also opportunities for Oz crew to do the 2 year stint.

in the long run I can see why they'd close the UK operation - they'll probably just be flying into LHR with a stop in DXB and most other European flights will be provided as code shares by Emirates out of DXB

Keeping a Uk operation for a few flights a day won't work

plus you 'll be able to get cheaper CC's eventually out of DXB

From where though? They won't be UAE natives, which gives QF the choice of opening up an expat base there with the associated accommodation/health insurance/travel costs, or running Ozzie crew on through DXB to Europe with associated slip costs in DXB and LHR.

Don't most of the UK base commute? Who is going to pay for flights commuting to do a flight with no overtime and with a small allowance for a 17 hour layover?? 3 day trips that = about 11-12 a roster and on base wage.

Looks like the Union/Crew had something to say about the short slip. It appears they now have 41 and 17 hour slips. Wonder how long the 17 hour will last. As has been said....most LHR crew commute. Hardly worth it on the 3 day trip. Surely slipping during daylight hours will be impossible. Not the smartest move but obviously the cheapest.

"From where though? They won't be UAE natives, which gives QF the choice of opening up an expat base there with the associated accommodation/health insurance/travel costs, or running Ozzie crew on through DXB to Europe with associated slip costs in DXB and LHR."

You assume the CC will be Aussie or European - I'll bet they will be fareasterners -Thais, Filipinos and staff from the sub-continent - that's how Dubai runs after all

EK in the UK
 

If you have a look on the EK website for their UK operation you would see there are 5 x LHR-DXB, 3 x LGW-DXB, 3 x MAN-DXB, 2 x BHX-DXB, 2 x GLA-DXB and 1 x NCL-DXB per day.
That's a lot of seats.
The current venture with BA routes passengers to Australia from the UK to Heathrow and then onwards. I wouldn't expect that to happen once the EK business venture starts.

There are quite a few LHR-DXB-MEL 8/9 day trips I see.
That should appease the commuters.

So now that the DXB trips have started, what are the crew trips/schedules? How is DXB being received compared to SIN?

I was in BA Cranebank doing my recurrent SEP the other week and the QF crew were there too... On the table next to me at lunch, banging on about how amazing DXB is going to be, how much better it will be than SIN, how they will be able to have a better time in DXB and have more potential "fun" in DXB, whatever that may mean. I do wonder if they have any reality of the Middle East in their minds...

Hey guys just to update you.The LHR base is doing fine and there is no mention of closures and merging with EK have put qf in a better spot then before.The LHR base is infact recruiting.We do miss Singapore but just coming back from Dubai Singapore will soon be forgotten.Tray surfer you really don't need to worry about us as we are capable to look after our self and for those who speculate or want the base to close sorry to dissapoint but thanks for investing the interest to write about it.Happy flying all

Just do be careful... More than one or two of my colleagues have fallen fowl of middle east laws and it has not been good...

Why would they close the LHR base, when QF will be operating DXB - Berlin in the near future. They're still going to need low cost QF in the Northern Hemisphere.

I do wonder if it would ever be possible that a MAM-type arrangement would eventuate, where EK provide crew to QF, based in DXB? Plenty of Aussies in DXB who might be interested in working for/going back to an Aussie airline but for whatever reason prefer to remain in Dubai (family, connections, lifestyle etc)

Purely speculation of course but I reckon more than a few would jump at it. (Also could work with Aussies doing a 2 yr secondment a la LHR base)

It would be interesting to know if QF would still have to operate by Aussie HR/hiring/recruitment laws if they did sucj a thing or if local rules would apply- I guess the second if the crew were based in DXB. If so, then yes a lot would probably be Asian- but- look at EK. *IF* the package is right, plenty of 'westerners' would apply too. It's not the same as what QF make but once you compare the whole package it's not as different as you may think. Particularly when you factor in rent, (official) tax, job security etc etc

Traysurfer,

A Gulf slip is not new for Qantas. Before the advent of the 747-400, jumbos could not do LHR-SIN direct so Qantas tech stopped (with a crew slip) in Bahrain. I am sure the QF crews will enjoy DXB as much as they enjoyed BAH.

aaahhhhh.....I can still remember the beer drinking competitions in the Gulf Hotel Barain with Qantas crews. The beer can pyramids were a sight to behold.

beerdrinker,

With the greatest respect, I don't think the vast majority of the LON based QF crew who were sat alongside were very old when the -400 started flying, so probably have a different take on the ME than the slightly more "worldly" crew who flew on the pre-400 era 747 frames.

TS

Tray surfer just to update you. We all love it here and no one is getting in trouble. The majority of us are ex flyers and been to far worse places then Dubai. Please mind your own current affairs. You airline almost got expelled out of Nairobi and it made news headlines. (Due to crew behaviour):-p so let's close this topic and leave the worrying to us as we don't need babysitting