Ottergirl,

I did not say that there is lack of harmony on my flights - and if you had flown with me I am certain you would agree!!:ok:

It is about balance! I have stated many times that the vast majority of cabin crew do a good job, but all I am saying is that there are still some real bad eggs. Whether or not they went on strike is immaterial in the way that I treat crew. I always try and treat people the way I would like to be treated myself. That policy has worked very well over many, many years!!

This debate is NOT about pilots versus cabin crew - no matter that some people seem intent on making it so.

I believe that this dispute started purely because bassa reps did not want to lose their power, and their over-stated ability to affect the operation. Alas, it now also appears to be about a lack of trust from a group of people towards their management. Trust is a two-way street and it is sad to see some factions doing their utmost to poison any chance of trust in the future.

The coming weeks are not going to be any more pleasant for all of us. I just hope that the matter will be resolved soon and then we can all start the difficult process of building bridges!

BAALLtheway,

Of course I don't think those jobs are unskilled anymore than I think cabin crews job is unskilled. My point was that people keep on saying that the cabin crew job is unskilled and we should think ourselves lucky to have a job.

Constantly we are being told, on this thread only I will add, that in this day and age we should only expect to work for a couple of years before moving on because our job is only worth low wages and it is not a career anymore.

I was just using examples of other jobs that have the same entry level educational qualifications and wondered if it would be acceptable to say they were unskilled and you should only aspire to have your jobs for a couple of years to save BA all those pension costs etc. and that none of them can be a career either. I don't feel that myself, I feel the complete opposite, I was saying it to show, some of the posters on this thread, how unpleasant their posts sound and how unacceptable that kind of attitude is. I was being sarcastic so to speak.

I think all working people contribute to our airline and our country and we all have a vital job to do. I think if you reread it you might realise what I was saying and it is the complete opposite to the way you have taken it.

Hope that clarifies that for you.

Added to say that I personally feel if quoting something someone says it's best practice to quote the whole sentence and not just a few select words that can be misinterpreted when taken out of the context of the sentence. Not having a go at you BAALLthway but I notice that Blue rib and other do it regularly and it changes what people meant.
Many thanks BG.

Betty Girl,

I think you generally post a lot of well thought out and balanced views here, but I am having trouble with your continued defence of all cabin crew.

None of the recent posters, as far as I can see, is attempting to 'tar all crew with the same brush'. On the contrary many are making it quite explicit that the majority of cabin crew they fly with are no problem at all. They are merely stating what is, in all honesty, almost inevitable in a company the size of BA - some people don't like their job, the people they work with (notably from other departments) and the company they work for.

In a work force of some 10,000 is that really so much of a surprise? There are indeed cabin crew who dislike pilots, regardless of the fact that many others are married to them. Just because most normal people are able to get along fine with each other it doesn't mean all cabin crew get on fine with all pilots (and vice versa).

A lot of this ill feeling comes from fairly minor 'snubs', in my opinion. If the cabin crew board the plane and the flight crew are already on board (pretty common on shorthaul) would you expect them to pause briefly at the (always open) flight deck door and shout a quick hello/wave? I would, I believe its simple courtesy. Would you be surprised to learn that probably 50% of cabin crew do not, for whatever reason, do this, heading straight to the back of the aircraft and requiring the Capt/FO to come down and see them?

Similarly I've had several occasions recently where a decent crew have got off the aircraft on a nightstop and walked off through the terminal without waiting for the pilots. These were not flights with a bad atmosphere, in fact on at least one of these occaisions we met up later for dinner.

These are small things, I agree, but the impression you get from working with a crew who behave like this is pretty negative. It doesn't take much (the odd yellow pen for example) to make people start jumping to conclusions here - 'Ahh, they're strikers, they didn't say hello when they boarded so it's obvious they hate pilots.....'

All,

Just so we are all clear on the issue.

Flight Crew are absolutly entitled to take rest in First class (in fact any seat on the aircarft), or swap a rest seat in Club for one in first once the doors are closed.

Please read your manuals. If CC notices say something different they are incorrect.

ATB

8029848s

I don't think anyone has disputed the fact that flight crew can take their rest anywhere they like.

I am cabin crew and, as far as I am concerned, the Captain is in charge of everyone and everything on board. He can do (and tell people to do) whatever he likes as long as it is within the law - and that includes upgrading people!!! He may have to account for himself back at base if he made a really strange decision, but whilst on board he is totally in charge.

The Blu Ribband was asked for his motivation in declining the request for cabin crew to take their rest in Club. It is only in very exceptional circumstances that I have seen cabin crew take their rest in Club with passengers in the cabin (for reasons such as mentioned by Suninmyeyes) - maybe twice in 15 years - and very few crew would expect it.

However, one rule which baffles many of us is that, despite the fact that it is specifically stated that pilots are allowed their crew rest in First, Club or anywhere else regardless of passengers in the cabin, cabin crew are not allowed to rest in Club even if there are no passengers in club at all - and therefore we are not disturbing anyone and no passenger should know we were there. It is not something I think any of us loses sleep over, but a strange rule - for which I believe CSDs have been reported and disciplined for breaching in the past.

Anyway, in summary, no one disputes the flight crew can take their rest anywhere; but it is strange that the cabin crew cannot take their rest in Club even if it is completely empty of passengers. But it really isn't an issue worth worrying about.

spin doctor,

I see exactly what you are saying but I think all the descriptions you give work both ways.

I was just getting a bit fed up and I know many other cabin crew feel the same, of people posting on hear about crew as if flying with BA cabin crew in general is a horrid experience. I know there must be a few bad apples but in general pilots and cabin crew get on very well in BA.

Anyone from another airline or a member of the general public would not see that view from reading these cabin crew threads. They would see a completely distorted view posted by a few particular posters constantly taking the worst examples of cabin crew and portraying it as if that is normal on BA.

I just wanted people to know that many of us don't experience BA like this. I despite all that is going on, which I do find very upsetting, am having a great relationship with ALL pilots whether they be in charge of the aircraft or commuters or just sitting on the car park bus. I witness daily Worldwide crew and their pilots chatting away in the security area and at the bus stop after a flight quite happily.

Of course I know that on Worldwide, there has been and it stems back over thirty plus years , a dislike of each other from some on BOTH sides of the door. Maybe the VCC situation has reignited all this but in general and especially the younger CSDs this has been improving on Worldwide and I just would hate people to think that all this nastiness is the norm because it is not.

That's all. Trouble is on hear you make a post trying to explain things as you see it and you get basically pulled to shreds, not by you, and it kind of looks like you are going on and on and on but your just defending your original post really.

Mesmer,
What a great first post.

Totally see what you are saying. Very well put.

....there will be plenty to discuss later today after all remember :-)

BBC News - BA awaiting strike ballot result

I was told the rule about cabin crew not taking rest in First/Club came about after the Naroibi incident, when it transpired rather more people were taking rest than should have been. Anyone familiar with the investigation here? (The real one, not the 'medals for all and the Orient Express' one!)

There has always been a rule that Cabin crew should not sleep in passenger cabins, at least for the almost quarter of a century that I have been flying! What has varied has been the punishment handed out for transgressions. I can remember a SCCM being stripped of rank as long ago as 1990ish for sleeping in First. Personally the only exception to this I have made is when I have a crew member who is unwell and then only after consultation with the skipper or when ferrying an empty aircraft when all rules are suspended!

A very pragmatic approach Ottergirl. Those empty ferry flights can be rather good fun! I remember being served breakfast by my crew in their pyjamas once!

Meanwhile back at the OK corral. On some of the other forums, they believe its going to be an 80%+ YES on a %80-90 turnout, mainly due to LGW now 'supporting' Unite. :ugh::ugh::ugh: NO chance IMHO

The previous posts are typical BA, 6000 + cabin crew about to go out on strike ,a dispute that has been running for over 2 years and people are discussing where they can sleep on the aircraft.

Really? :)

Stormin norman,
Just out of interest, what airline do you work for.

Looking through your posting history you seem to have a view about all airlines.

Up until now I think people probably thought you worked for BA but looking at all your post I'm not sure who you work for now. Just interested.

ottergirl,
im no doubting that you are correct re this crew rest rule .Can you actually qoute it or point me in the right direction as to where it is written? I simply can not find it written down myself ,even using the emanuals.......fact or custom and practice ,i can't be sure

So you don't think saying 'Typical BA' is not a blanket attack on all of us then. It was after all a pilot that introduced this ridiculous debate about where you can rest in the aircraft. By introducing one of his usual generalisations about cabin crew into this thread. Don't you think.

Obviously tightshot took it the same way as I did. Irrelevant and just done to be unpleasant.

Theres a risk of being oversensitive here.

How can "typical BA" be personal? It absolutely is typical of BA (as a company) to be focussing on the irrelevant whilst missing the big picture. I see no mention of cabin crew.

Your post was however directly personal.