SlideBustle,
Have you read BF's latest web chat on the BA crew forum. I think that some of the answers there might help to stop you worrying. I think it comes down to who you believe and I am choosing to believe BF because the union has put far too much spin on everything just to encourage crew to strike in the past. Some of the union rep suspentions were apparently because of a fight at Waterside between BASSA and Amicus reps last year. BA witnessed it and promply suspended them and it was that, that caused the two unions to make up and be best friends in the fight against BA. Alot of this strike in my opinion has been about the damaged egos of union reps. Anyway that is my opinion and why I choose to trust the company a bit more than the union. |
There is a good article in the FT today about the heckling Willie Walsh received at the AGM from cabin crew (and others):
FT.com / Companies / Airlines - BA board faces volley of attacks at AGM [you may have to register to read it] Max |
GS-Alpha and HiFlyer,
I totally agree with you, with regards to BASSA did deal with Mixed Fleet in TOTALLY the wrong way - which they knew about almost 2 years ago!!!! (First of all the rumours we were to be outsourced then Columbus document etc etc!) but they didn't do anything about it until recently. But constantly saying NO to offers including offers to get rid of Mixed Fleet by making concessions on our fleets - so that's why I don't trust a strike - as BASSA have made a lot of mistakes recently and they are probably part of the problem as to why this offer is not as good!! If they have got worse... will they get better? I doubt it.... I mean who knows? Maybe BA management will compromise abit more - maybe even offer what was on the table last year (one can wish can't they!!!) but after the not so very good support for the strike - I don't think so. It is reasonable in this climate. I LOVE my job, and to me, the most important thing at the moment, in this climate is job security... so that's why a strike is scary... both to go on strike and what it will do to the company financially!!! I would be more than willing to sign the dotted line IF they produced a matrix of routes - or maybe not routes (incase they cancelled certain routes - they can't guarantee routes) or earnings (like High earning could be defined as say allowances of £X of more for example) and do it proportion wise. BF did actually suggest this before, infact he has done a few times! Bettysgirl, Have read the webchat (missed it so couldn't post questions!), BF does seem genuine, and yes he had allayed the fears of the redeployment etc etc.... so I suppose my fears are not as bad about it now... I don't think the proposal is bad - just a few more CONTRACUALLY BINDING AGREEMENTS are needed for me... but then again, I suppose we could accept and then negotiate that after... And if BASSA procrastrinate this the PCCC could if they got the representation. |
What you mean ALL employees in UK will be made redundant!
I can't help but HATE this merger with Iberia! It is very worrying IMO! |
Slide Bustle.
Just in case you or anyone reading your post is wondering where the post you are refering to has gone!!!! The poster removed it and put it on the passenger and SLF thread because I think he thought he was not allowed to post it here. |
That of course is as exactly as it all happened miss, sorry to have been sick all over the thread but it's been a little bumpy and thank you for the succour and assistance trolley which was much appreciated.
Bye |
It was cavortingcheetah who removed their own post, and ported it across to the SLF forum. The bit that SlideBustle was commenting on was, I believe, this:
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see BA cease to exist in its present form fairly soon and to be taken off shore entirely. WW's just got to sort out the pension fund and then, once the airline is in Madrid, he'll be able to staff it entirely using people from South and Central America, with the exception of Brasil of course, using the favoured nation status that Spain offers to its former overseas colonies which will allow him to circumvent EEC labour protection laws. |
Sorry, let me just clear this up because some get quite hot here and there.
I posted the article in today's FT so that those of you you do not want to register could read it. max motor made mention of the article. But I posted in the wrong thread. The paragraph thus: 'I wouldn't be at all surprised to see BA cease to exist in its present form fairly soon and to be taken off shore entirely. WW's just got to sort out the pension fund and then, once the airline is in Madrid, he'll be able to staff it entirely using people from South and Central America, with the exception of Brasil of course, using the favoured nation status that Spain offers to its former overseas colonies which will allow him to circumvent EEC labour protection laws.' Were my own words at the end of the article. Since I am not actively flying for an airline at the moment I am not entitled to use this thread. Once I realised I had posted on the wrong thread I removed the post to the SLF thread where less worthy denizens of the airways are allowed to fester. My apologies for any inconvenience caused to readers and Board of Censors. |
Cavortingcheetah, the mods make the rules, I expect your posts will disappear soon. FWIW I think the 'taking BA offshore' in the FT is a nonsense, the jobs will not all be based in Madrid, there is a market to be served in the UK and you can't do that from Spain.
Back to the thread topic, it is going quiet on here now as people 'take in' the offer from BA, many BASSA supporters are ditching the union, many crew are upset that they hadn't resigned earlier, they could then have accepted the offer directly. |
Cavortingcheetah
The way your post was posted made it look like it were the FT's words about us all loosing our jobs not your words which explains alot!!! Of course he can't use South American crew for slots out of LHR you need to be able to live and work in the uk to work here. You can't crew aircraft at LHR going all over the world with South American crew. I think you are just scaremongering maybe. |
Betty Girl.
Right of reply I suppose. I put a dotted line at the end of the article in question and then wrote my own words. There's no way my words could have been interpreted as being part of an FT article. |
Well Carvortingcheetar it looks like SideBustle thought so and so did Strikemaster82, if you read their posts, and also on first reading I did too, until you posted that you had added the last paragraph I think alot of people probably thought that.
|
So now let there be no more misapprehension. Important words need to be read carefully.
(That's the FT article I was referring to, of course.) |
Just something that has been bugging me recently:
I received a ballot form from UNITE about the latest offer this week, despite cancelling my subscription in January. But, I was 'kicked out' of the BASSA internet forum SIX WEEKS after cancelling my membership. So someone, somewhere must know who is actually in the union and who is not. Has this happpened to anyone else? |
I posted the article in today's FT so that those of you you do not want to register could read it. max motor made mention of the article Max |
cavortingcheetah said, 'I wouldn't be at all surprised to see BA cease to exist in its present form fairly soon and to be taken off shore entirely. WW's just got to sort out the pension fund and then, once the airline is in Madrid, he'll be able to staff it entirely using people from South and Central America, with the exception of Brasil of course, using the favoured nation status that Spain offers to its former overseas colonies which will allow him to circumvent EEC labour protection laws.' And here's some real BASSA rubbish that's doing the rounds. Please read before you sign...... If you vote yes to accept the company's offer , you are voting for .......... - Imposition of future changes to your agreements without negotiation - The arbitrary and unfair dismissal of our Branch Secretary - Disciplinary proceedings to be continued against other members of the Branch Committee - Removal of staff travel as a "PUNISHMENT" for taking lawful industrial action - The suspension and sacking of 70 of our cabin crew colleagues for trivial offences - The destruction of our negotiating framework , our agreements and the demise of the NSP - Removal of our right to proceed with all the outstanding legal claims arising from the dispute - Removal of the redeployment agreement - Accepting inferior disciplinary, grievance and attendance management procedures - Removal of our ability to take part in any future , lawful industrial action without punitive financial sanctions - Continued and sustained bullying and harassment by the company - BA censoring all future communication by the union to its members - No say to which routes are transferred to Mixed fleet - Giving up all your union rights and the effective destruction of your trade union Our CEO is on record in the press that he wants the "freedom" to make future cost savings without the threat of further industrial action is. without any negotiation with the union . Make no mistake , things will never be "normal" again ! THIS MAN IS NO ONE'S FRIEND ! , other groups of staff who have undermined our action will realise this when it is too late and strikebreakers must take responsibility for prolonging the dispute. In short , acceptance of the "offer" will be selling our negotiating ability and mortgaging our future ! I work for British Airways in a management capacity and I urge you all to stick together and fight. Please pass this on to your colleagues Good luck to you all Aaron |
slide Bustle
I don't think the proposal is bad - just a few more CONTRACTUALLY BINDING AGREEMENTS are needed for me...
A lot of the routes that you want protecting with "contractually binding agreements" are lucrative because of the exchange rate of sterling against the local currency, following your thinking the only way to guarantee these levels of earnings would be to be paid in GBP. What would you suggest if the exchange rates change again, as they surely will, in the future? I'm sorry but nothing in life is certain, except death and taxes of course. I think the only hope we have now is to accept the deal before it gets any worse. I'm sure that if we do this and make it work full staff travel will come back eventually. The only thing left after that will be to fight for the long overdue revolution at BASSA HQ. |
Picking just one item on the list of tosh from bassa:
"- The suspension and sacking of 70 of our cabin crew colleagues for trivial offences" Does bassa think the empty oxygen bottles and other attempts of sabotage (can't go into details due confidentiality) are trivial matters? Not forgetting all the other issues, such as the alleged kidnap threats and treats of physical violence. There's no doubt in my mind that there will be more suspensions and sackings due to some people's stupid behaviour. :rolleyes: |
Originally Posted by max motor
(Post 5808697)
I posted a link rather than a 'cut n paste' because that would be against the terms & conditions of the FT site.
Max |
Don't you just love BASSA. I can honestly say I can sympathise with any manager who has to negotiate with BASSA as their particular spin on events defies logic.
The arbitrary and unfair dismissal of our Branch Secretary Disciplinary proceedings to be continued against other members of the Branch Committee Imposition of future changes to your agreements without negotiation Accepting inferior disciplinary, grievance and attendance management procedures Continued and sustained bullying and harassment by the company No say to which routes are transferred to Mixed fleet Removal of our ability to take part in any future , lawful industrial action without punitive financial sanctions Our CEO is on record in the press that he wants the "freedom" to make future cost savings without the threat of further industrial action is. without any negotiation with the union . Make no mistake , things will never be "normal" again ! THIS MAN IS NO ONE'S FRIEND ! , other groups of staff who have undermined our action will realise this when it is too late and strikebreakers must take responsibility for prolonging the dispute. In short , acceptance of the "offer" will be selling our negotiating ability and mortgaging our future |
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