This is actually a daydream of mine (although it will never come true!)...alcohol being forbidden on board any aircraft, at any airport and no duty free alcohol either (or it would go straight in the hold...what I mean is, not accessible).

I'm not saying that it would solve all the problems, or that all cases of disruptive passengers would disappear but I believe it would narrow it down quite considerably.

Anyway, it will never happen so keep offloading them if you have the chance. I find that you usually only find out in the air if you have someone nasty on board. Fingers crossed, I only ever had one arrested on arrival. That wasn't nice, and I hope I won't have to do it again. Guy cooked his own goose though, and I wouldn't hesitate to do it again if necessary.

Good thread!

Hey People,

As one of those people from the other side of the flight deck door who don't have to deal with these idiots often let me put in my one and a half pence worth.

As you say there is a balance to be struck...and you guys are better trained than I am in dealing with this kind of hostility.

Early in my career I tried to rationalise what my respone should be if the (at that time single) cabin crew member (Jetstream) decided to get me involved.

The problem I have with this is that if you let bad behaviour go...you are condoning it. Other pax see it ...and some will believe they can get away with it on their next flight.

My simplistic answer was that if they swear at you (directly or indirectly...under their breath or otherwise) they had stepped over the line.

The first line of defence (as someone said) is at the gate. I specifically ask the ground staff have there been any problem pax...if so I go and have a chat and if unhappy offload them then (when there is time to get their bags off)

If we were on stand I would get them just outside the aircraft and go on a zero tolerance rant. Demand an apology be made directly to the crew member concerned...if not..or if the crew member was not happy with it then offload.

Taxy out I would go to an intermediate hold bay put the brake on and take them to the back of the aircraft ...same deal. In both cases I found a very quick transformation in attitude.

Would also make a PA to the pax apologising for the delay and explaining the situation....cannot tolerate blah blah...in an attempt to further humiliate the offender...again if they kick off...they are kicked off.

Problem child once in the air make a PA saying if the pax in seat whatever repeated the offence he would be met by the police at destination (and make sure he was) and point out that he will have a couple of hours taken out of his day in the police station. I have always been happy with how helpful the airport police are in terms of dealing with these people.

I am not stupid ...and I know many cabin crew do not need my help....or decide that they are able to rise above it etc...but IMHO if we are to reverse this trend then positive action needs to be taken (by one of us).

In the case you mention there would be an outside chance that the reason this person wanted a nervous pee...and was Mr Angry could be that he had some ill intent towards the aircraft. Unlikely yes...impossible???

I am not saying that either of the following are a good however some may not be too upset to hear...

1. When I had a guy fighting his mate during a flight the Spanish Police met the aircraft and we found out from the incoming pax that both of them had taken a heavy beating outside the back of the police van. The Spanish have a reputation for this.

2. Again not saying its a good idea...but one of our non conventional skippers used to listen to the PAs during taxy in and out. If he heard "remain seated" or similar he would jump on the brakes. Make some announcement apologising for the sudden stop but a rabbit had just run out in front of the aircraft. If we had ingested it into the engines aircraft tech etc. I never heard about any of the flying pax hitting an innocent seated law abiding one.

In case you hadn't guessed I am on a night stop with nothing else to do apart from sit in front of the PC. Ho hum:(

As a genuine curiosity, where would cabin crew stand when another (very burly) SLF gets up and tells the punk being an a$$hole that he'll knock several of his teeth out if he doesn't start very quickly behaving like a heavily sedated lamb?

Would you admonish the burly do-gooder?

Working as an actor, I often experience traumas 'in train' arguments while travelling to Eastbourne (last train, Victoria) wish there would be more support/customer care. Never happens on an a/c.(Air Southwest, good chums, although the Q300's sucks) Well done you cc.

flapsforty, I noticed in a book (that is probably the scourge of anyone in the airline business) called Air Babylon that ground crew can occasionally be problematic like that, although I'm sure when the company providing ground handling services does not have any connection whatsoever to the airline who you work for, there is even less loyalty to ensuring the unruly pax is dealt with before they get into that aluminium tube at the other end of the jetway.

Stacey, I've also always wondered about that... Would love to know.

S.

Having worked in pax handling myself in my early aviation days, before I moved into engineering, I can confirm that Magic Buff's idea about the 9.5 foot 200 Lbs gorilla works.
I had a very bad situation once in the arrival gate I was responsible for, with lots of drunken German PMI passengers and a huge delay in them receiving their luggage due to an unexpected snowfall, which forced the handling company to move half of their loading crews to de-icing.
I'm not a short@rse myself, but it really helped to have a loader of said 6.5 feet, 200 lbs of pure muscle and hands like frying pans standing at my side, giving the crowd a happy grin with his missing front teeth, broken nose and cauliflower ears (this guy looked like a professional heavyweight boxer) :}.
People, who were previously very agressive, just had a look at him and became very polite.:ooh:

I've seen the same at our airline. We have a few male flight attendants, who are into bodybuilding and if they are on board, even with our Morrocco flights (where many male passengers refuse to take orders from female cabin crew), there is normally no problem.

In response to Tudor comments, I love chavvy pax too, you can have a laugh with them and they generally sit down and shut up and are still a bit in awe of flying.

Gold card holder threw his heavy Louis Vuitton rolleboard at me as I explained that I couldn't stow it in an overhead locker. He had red wine in there and a laptop and they all got smashed up, shame! He threw a hissy fit so got offloaded. I just found him really funny, it wouldn't have been funny at 30,000 feet. He then threatened to 'have my job' and I told him he was welcome to it. In a previous life I was a dancer so I managed to avoid being struck with said suitcase.

I get frustrated but do I have a go at the cashier in Boots/M&S/Waitrose or the server in Pizza Express? Do I feel the need to throw a bag at them and threaten to get them sacked? I have never been in a situation where I lost my temper like that.

I Agree
 

I agree Virginia, I once was just outside the departure Lounge at LPL and we had an EZY to Geneva, unfortunatly it was four hours delayed, now the normal run of the mill Easy types just took it on the chin so to speak. However there was one arrogant business type person, with a lot of bling, who was demanding furiously of the young 18 year old PSA that she get him an aircraft right this moment.
Well she was doing her best to try to calm him down, what a sod he was. He lifted one of the computer monitors off the podium and bashed her on the head with it in a fit of temper (she stopped doing that job not long afterwards).Now at that point I decided to intervene.

Not being particularly small my good self or for that matter very nice, I demanded of him that he should bash me on the head with it and we would see what would happen! He seemed to calm down remarkably fast and became very apologetic very fast, I still offloaded him though! I dont think GVA missed him very much. He doesnt write me any fan mail though! strange that! I wonder why.

good post RMC thanks

I agree with Virginia, I myself never lost my temper the way some people do, even when I was under tremendous pressure and stress. But I guess we all have our own limits. But honestly some people get frustrated too easily.

I remember one day I was in a coffee shop waiting for my coffee. They were selling cakes. One of the cakes didn't have a price tag on it. One woman came and started shouting at the poor teenager selling them because there was no price tag on it. The worst is she didn't even want to buy it, she already had been served. She must have had a bad day and decided to sack someone.

I think we could spend days writting about different situations like this one, we cannot change the world, so the best thing to do is to ignore them and be happy. Life is so short.

If it's not a case of serious abuse or potential offloading, it's usually attention seeking. Some people have no shame when it comes to screaming , shouting, complaining loudly and generally causing a scene. I uphold my company's rule in that there is no excuse for being rude to a customer (though I'm sorely tempted on many an occasion!). I firstly sort out their immediate gripes, listen empathatically, state the solution, or at least what CAN be done at 30' feet and then go completely out of my way to bend-over backwards and be as charming as possible ....to all their surrounding (and suffering) passengers, whilst paying them the least amount of attention possible. Of course I'm still courteous to the trouble maker, but absolutely spoil everybody else, thus gaining support and hopefully making them feel small and perhaps a little left out! Playground tactics I know, but always works with the overgrown spoilt brats, plus how can the upstart blame me when everyone else has had the best service imaginable.:)

RMC, totally agree. Soon as a pax drops the F-bomb at the crew that's the signal (to me) to start the offload process rolling depending on their reaction to the warning.

Stacey, I once did have that happen, I had to explain to the 'do gooder' pax thank you for stepping up but I will come get you IF I need assistance from you.... turn to the rowdy and say "but offloading you from this flight won't be necessary will it now, we're all going to have a nice flight, you are going to follow the crew's instructions and we will all get where we want to be, quietly. Aren't we?" :E

One F/A once told me that she had a very obnoxious, drunk passenger causing trouble and behaving very agressively during flight. Until two other passengers, Hell's Angels type bikers go up and asked politely if they could occupy the two empty seats to the left and right of said obnoxious passenger. Instant politeness by said scrote followed.

At the risk of appearing smug it's threads like these that make me glad I went the bizjet route rather than airlines. Certainly there are some bad owners but I've been lucky enough not to have to deal with many of them apart from when working for a well known fractional. In those days the worst offenders (few and far between) were 'new money' and junior/middle managers. Those with nothing to prove were and are a pleasure to deal with.

I used to spend a lot of time positioning on commercial airlines while in uniform and there was much fun to be had. During a 'conversation' with a business class passenger who was talking over the safety brief I was informed he would have me fired. "I doubt it. I don't work for BA" was the cue for a round of sniggering among passengers and cabin crew alike :E

Another flight, this time with Air France, drew complaints from passengers asking the CC why I was being allowed to travel with them. After all, I was merely staff, non? On take-off a succession of loud thuds shook the aircraft and every head in business class turned my way seeking reassurance. "Don't ask me, I'm just the hired help" I told them and went back behind my newspaper.

RMC, excellent post!!! I can only say that, unfortunately, many capt and sccm dont back you up 100%:= and that is very frustrating...
I do understand there is pressure from the company not to delay flights due to bags being removed for the pax we are offloading, and sometimes they imply we (c/c) are the ones overeacting or being dramatic but I believe we should never be sort of "bullied" into carrying those pax who start being abusive before departure.

Dutch, it's difficult to get a balance sometimes as you have pointed out.

However if you feel the company is pressuring you unduly... here is an idea to keep in mind.

I was in a similar situation once, wanting to offload a pax, this was a rare occasion when management were really pressuring us not to delay. All I needed to do was to speak with the Captain and tell him I was feeling unwell, and wasn't sure if I would be up to dealing with the passenger if he remained onboard. Company changed their tune pretty quick when they realised we were all about to offload OURSELVES if they made us go with this (very abusive) pax.. :E :}

Thats a pity
 

It is a shame that you have to resort to such methods though, dont you think, having to potentially blemish your own personell reccord, just to get some backup, you shoulnt be in any way held to account because of an unruly or abusive pax. It is their problem, not yours.

As SLF I know that any delays aren't the crews fault, they are just doing their job and want to get home on time, as we all do. Much respect, I couldn't do it.

Worst flights I have been on are low cost ones into Newcastle on a Friday night, when half the passsengers are on hen and stag nights and have already been in the bar at the airport.

I have never seen anyone refused entry onto a flight as it seems to me that the ground staff don't want the problems of preventing someone flying.

Maybe all pax should be breathalysed as they hane their tickets over for boarding.

Thanks for the feedback. Wasn't sure whether I should enter the den;)!!!Will post in here again if there is anything I can comment on :-)

Virginia
Loved the riposte to 'I'll have your job' - it quite made my morning, thanks! :D

I do not believe this is the case any more - at any rate, BA have knowingly flying with my baggage on board, but without me, even with me informing them 4 hours before takeoff that they had put it on the wrong plane! I suggest it is just lip-service to safety, as incidents like this rather make a mockery of any supposed safety concerns the airline might have.