DEFCOM,

no truer words spoken. My sister deals in exactly that business of taking companys over for a huge investment group. From what she says this is very normal - would you offer your first offer as your best when you buy a car?

Macq is after us. Bugger.

Hi all
It now seems the deal will be a foregone conclusion, probably around the $ 5.50 per share. My question is: If there is a higher degree of volatility, and as the experts have been saying, the very real possibility of Qantas potentially going bust if there are any more disasters in the airline industry, then how safe is our Superannuation?
I fear there will be massive restructuring and the effort of 35,000 employees over all these years will be dismissed.
Sad days indeed.
:{ :{ :{

News just through - Qantas sold for $5.60/share.

Sad day.

They have bought a lemon-and paid too much for it . Good luck to you all.
You are facing uncertain and difficult tmes so don't turn on each other and stay united .

from the australian..
 

Qantas sold for $11bn
Steve Creedy, Aviation writer and Michael West
December 14, 2006


CORPORATE raiders last night struck a deal worth $11 billion to take over Qantas, after sweetening an offer that was rejected by the airline's board earlier in the day.

Airline Partners Australia increased its offer by 10c a share to swing the Qantas board in favour of the deal.

A source close to the deal said insiders - after weeks of tense negotations - were confident an agreement would be signed today.

Qantas's non-executive directors earlier said a $5.50 per share cash bid by the consortium was not acceptable, citing the complex terms of the offer. It is understood they were also not happy with the bid price or a $100 million break fee if the deal failed to go through.

Most of the conditions have been changed to placate Qantas directors.

Executive directors Geoff Dixon and Peter Gregg, who did not vote on the offer because it reportedly involves a 1 per cent stake for senior managers, later backed the rejection in a note to staff. "The Qantas decision has the support of all directors - including the non-executive directors, Peter Gregg and myself - and the senior executive team at Qantas," Mr Dixon said.

A source close to the talks said the airline had told the bidders to "get real", prompting the revised offer late last night.

The source said the board

believed the original offer was not in the best interests of shareholders or the company. But Qantas was not "doing a Coles-Myer" and sending its suitors away, and negotiations were not hostile.

A source involved with the bidders indicated there were no unusual conditions in the bid.

News of the rejection of the original offer caused Qantas shares to plummet below $5 when they began trading after a brief suspension, but they recovered to close down 14c at $5.09.

The carrier's main rival, Virgin Blue, added to the pain by announcing it would push ahead with plans to launch an international airline on the flying kangaroo's lucrative Pacific route.

The original takeover proposal would have seen Qantas 60 per cent Australian-owned, giving David Coe's Allco Finance Group 11 per cent of the airline, Allco Equity Group about 34 per cent and Macquarie Bank less than 15 per cent. Offshore investors, including Texas Pacific Group and Onex, would hold less than 40 per cent of the airline, with no single investor holding more than 15 per cent.

It is understood the move to increase the bid to $5.60 per share was linked to bringing in other parties to reduce the exposure of the Allco group. Allco Equity, headed by Peter Yates, is related to Allco Finance and the group was looking at a combined stake of up to 46 per cent.

Allco leases aircraft to Qantas and has two former airline chiefs, Rod Eddington and David Turnbull, on its board.

While it is understood Sir Rod has no interest in joining the Qantas board or being involved in its operations, Mr Turnbull is tipped to join Mr Coe and possibly former Telstra chairman Bob Mansfield on the board.

Analysts viewed the board rejection of the original offer as part of negotiating tactics.

"I think rather than being a landmark moment in the negotiation, they have done it to

respond to the speculation," JP Morgan analyst Matt Crowe said last night in anticipation of a revised offer.

"I don't think we interpret it as being the end of anything, but it shows they're still a fair way apart."

The deal would see the foreign component of the deal nine percentage points below the foreign investment limit and about 5 per cent less than the stakes held by foreign investors on November 8. The structure is designed to avoid reviews by the Foreign Investment Review Board and Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, though the federal Government has said it will still look at national interest issues.

Experts have warned a highly leveraged Qantas is more vulnerable to downturns from external shocks such as terrorist attacks and the major credit agencies say a takeover will reduce the airline's credit rating.

Moody's Investors Service said yesterday this could involve a "multi-notch" downgrade.

However, analysts said that popular suggestions the consortium could cut and run in a downturn were overblown.

There are also fears the new owners would be quicker to axe unprofitable regional routes kept open by Qantas for political reasons. And unions are worried sections of the company would be sold off and more work such as maintenance and call centres would be sent offshore.

Analysts say there are about $3 billion worth of assets open to review

Qantas chief donates millions but "There are always going to be labour changes "
 

Colin Kruger
December 14, 2006 - 12:41PM


Qantas chief Geoff Dixon says he will accept the consortium's offer to continue as the airline's CEO, but it will not necessarily be for the mountain of money they plan to throw at him.
Mr Dixon will be one of the airline senior executives who stand to receive 1 per cent of the airline if the deal goes through.
Depending on whether the airline meets its performance hurdles this could deliver Mr Dixon up to $60 million as part of the Long-Term Incentive Scheme (LTIP), but all proceeds will go to charity he says.
"My family and I have decided that I will gift my entire share of the LTIP to a charitable trust, which we will establish for the benefit of the community, particularly in the areas of medical research and indigenous health and education," Mr Dixon said.
He was not so charitable today when asked about the outlook for the airline's workforce. When asked if he could guarantee that the new owners would not undertake job cuts in the future, Mr Dixon replied: "No, we are not going to say here now that there won't be labour changes
"There are always going to be labour changes in the aviation industry."
Asked if Qantas would agree to a union labour guarantee agreement, Mr Dixon replied: "No." :confused: :confused: :=

while i agree that this whole thing is quite scary.. i dont believe that there is any way that ANY company like an airline can with all honesty say that 'there will be no job cuts in the future'.
whether or not he is referring to impending job cuts that are a result from this takeover, or just in general.. he couldnt promise something like that.. no one would believe him anyway because it would be impossible to uphold.

what are the unions doing about this does anyone know?
personally i am more scared about losing staff travel and other benefits etc - if we are on EBAs then we are safe for the meantime surely?
I think if anything major happened it would be to casual/hire staff first and reduced conditions/benefits and pay for new recruits

first
 

it will take time to implement the changes from an asx listing to a private firm. this may take several month. there will another massive review about future cost cutting..
the fin review today qouted a qantas director:
"on a personal note i dont want this deal to happen. but my emotinal views about what qantas represents to the nation are not at issue. the social and emotional factors are secondary to the economic".
those bas$%^&s would sell their mothers & children for money:yuk:

has anyone seen or heard a comment on the qantas deal from the so called dream team?

Actu Media Release On Qantas Buyout
 

QANTAS UNIONS FEAR PRIVATE EQUITY TAKEOVER WILL PUT THOUSANDS OF JOBS AND
PAY AT RISK

Unions fear the takeover of Qantas by a private equity consortium will cost
thousands of jobs and put downward pressure on workers' wages and conditions
while bonuses for senior executives will go through the roof.

Qantas employs around 37,000 staff with more than 90% union members.

ACTU Secretary Greg Combet and Qantas unions issued the following statement
on the takeover bid announced today:

"This takeover could spell a significant reduction in workers' pay and
conditions and the loss of thousands of Australian jobs.

In recent years Qantas staff have borne the burden of the company's drive
for a stronger competitive position and the workers have a right to be very
disappointed that their jobs and wages and conditions are now at further
risk.

Qantas workers have experienced an average pay cut in real terms of more
than 3% in recent years, and yet company profits have soared and salaries
for senior management have risen by more than 40%.

Senior Qantas executives are also set to share in a $110 million incentive
scheme should the private equity bid succeed.

Private equity funds are interested in short term benefits and unions are
very worried that this is likely to be achieved via the outsourcing of jobs
overseas, the sell-off of business units and the slashing of services,
including regional airline routes.


A large component of the finance being used to purchase Qantas is borrowed
money and the company's debt levels could double if the takeover is
successful.

Again, workers have a right to feel cheated after years of Qantas demanding
wage restraint from its workforce in order to reduce debt and to allow the
purchase of new planes.

Unions are also troubled by the fact that the Howard Government's new IR
laws have made the take over of Qantas a more attractive proposition because
they allow major cuts to workers' wages and conditions in a number of ways.
Qantas has already started the process of cutting workers' pay through the
introduction of Australian Workplace Agreements.

In the likely event the company is restructured, it is also possible under
the IR laws for workers to lose all their terms and conditions including
entitlements to public holidays, leave loadings, penalties, allowances and
redundancy pay - receiving only $13.47 per hour and four other minimum
conditions.

Despite our strong opposition to the sale, unions have a long-standing
relationship with Qantas management that we will work hard to maintain in
order to protect the interests of employees," said Mr Combet.

Enron-Qantas
 

Have you seen the documentary movie Enron - The Smartest Guys In The Room? A true story of corporate greed gone wrong. It's compelling viewing and currently running on Foxtel and in the current economic climate I suggest you watch it.............and then brace yourselves!!

......."I'm so excited " !!!
 

'Just saw Darth being interviewed in the 730 Report.

I have never seen him look so happy and smug.

As a group we are stuffed........'wish I took the package:(

My bet is that from March it will be "not a noice place"
Roll on Qantas A-380 Ltd. :{


The timing of MM latest rant on the FAAA website has not gone unnoticed.

As a member , I would of preferred a more measured response to THE biggest issue affecting all members. Not some paranoid diatribe about those pesky non-members ( get over it boyz-you're never going to get 100% membership......MOVE ON........THIS ISSUE IS MUCH BIGGER THAN THIS DRIBBLE!!!!!

Wonder how the party is going with Darth and the Dame tonight.

They must be stoked:yuk:

Please can we have just one more VR package !!!:sad:

RIP Qantas 16/11/1920 -- 14/12/2006
 

I know what you mean stubby and the jigsaw puzzle of this past year has now fallen into place. The enforced long service leave, clause 11s, bullying tactics, VR package etc now shows what management has been up to.

Schlong, I've seen the Enron movie and yes it was scary stuff with greedy execs cut loose at a Roman orgy of money and power but at least some of them are now in jail sharing a cell with a big dude named Bubba.

I need a laugh now so will have to dig out the Laughter In The Air book by Col Burgess to remind myself of the good ol' days!!

Does anyone else get the feeling that this was a little too easy and contrived?

As front pit has said the last piece has just fallen into place with pieces of the jigsaw like directed LSL.The FAAA was right in a way about the cost structure of L/H but I think the real reason has just been exposed and that was to remove or lower the debt to it's employees and hence to the new owners.They had to make it as attractive as possible so that if the new owners run by the same Darth want to get rid of crew they don't have to pay as much to do so.

As far as MM's rant goes with the FAAA's website having a password ,does he really think that will stop the company getting a hold of any electronic newsletter?

We are just very lucky that MM has been having secret talks with the Macqaurie bank now for the last 3 months.Obviously these talks have been fruitfull because he told us about them on pprune.I am waiting with anticipation to hear the details as obviously Darth was not aware of them either.

Twiggs,here is your perfect opportunity to give up the parts of our EBA that you have said are over generous such as our allowances.I'm sure the new owners will want you on a work place agreement as soon as possible.GO FOR IT

......take a cold shower"
 

Now lets not get too far ahead of ourselves.

Our newly crowned philanthropist Mr Geoff Dixon has said:

"I cannot gaurantee job security, I cannot gaurantee my own job security:" ( 730 Report 14th Dec )

Now, I feel confident of the future.

Merry Christmas to you too:{ :{

The new Industrial Relations laws make the take over of Qantas an attractive proposition. It is now possible following a transmission of business for Qantas workers after 12 months to lose all their terms and conditions, including their redundancy entitlements and be covered only by the minimum rate of pay $13.47 per hour and 4 other basic minimum conditions.

The new IR laws also make it possible for the business to force employees to accept an employer Greenfield agreement. In most cases these so-called agreements remove all entitlements to public holidays, leave loadings, penalties, allowances, redundancy pay and often have a flat, usually low, hourly rate of pay.

Qantas has started the process through the introduction of Australian Workplace Agreements. The continued outsourcing of jobs overseas will gather pace should the private equity raiders succeed.

Even under the new IR laws, Qantas workers still have rights, that is why it is important that all the Qantas unions have agreed to work together to protect the Qantas workers Rights at Work.

Qantas management has more than $110 million reasons why they shouldn’t care. The private equity consortium has offered 180 senior Qantas management $110 million should the bid be accepted by Qantas management and the bid ultimately succeed. This is on average $611,000.00 payment per manager.

A large component of the finance being used to purchase

Qantas is borrowed money. There is lots of borrowed money.

Qantas’ debt levels are expected to double if the takeover is successful. Qantas workers have a right to feel cheated after years of Qantas demanding wage restraint from its workforce to reduce debt and to allow the purchase of new planes.

It is likely that Qantas’ credit rating will be downgraded if the buy-out succeeds. In the past Qantas has demanded job cuts and wage restraint, in part to protect Qantas’ credit rating. When millions of dollars are dangled in front of Qantas management, high debt is suddenly not a concern???

If you look at the bigger picture you only have to ask yourself a few questions.

Who is the winner if the takeover is allowed?

Who will stand to lose with any takeover?

I think the answer to the first question is self apparent and the answer to the second question is the staff and the Australian public.

Now is the time to phone your local Federal politician and say that if they are a coalition member you will vote against them at the next election if they go along with the takeover.Hit them where it hurts and that is their re-election prospects,it is the only thing politicians care about.

If your Federal rep is an opposition member then tell him/her that you are a life long Liberal voter but will vote for Labour if they kick up enough of a stink about the election.

If Costello thinks there is enough mileage in this issue he might block it especially if he thinks it might win him some support in ousting Howard.

Qantas is an Australian icon ,whats next? Will Iemma sell the Harbour bridge to raise money for some other policy.Just look at how much a coffee costs in the terminal and you understand why everyone is fearful of an airline run by the same people who own the terminal.

In Darths interview last night he has been asked to stay on …so much for his statement that he could not guarantee his own job security.The part I really liked was the hug and kiss between MJ and Darth,she was so happy she was almost crying ,they have finally got what they wanted.In fact MJ said that the share holders should be happy because they are getting a good price on their shares.

Twiggs ,

The reason I edited the part about a 46 hour slip is that I did not want the moderator to delete the post as I imagine you must ask him to do that a lot.

However since you are obviously from another planet can you explain how you can only have one sunset or nightime in 46 hours unless you are slipping at either the north or south poles or very close to them?

By the way don't pm me I'm not interested

Costello is the man who you need to lobby as he is the one who will have the ultimate say on the conditions of the sale. He is no friend of Q.F's either .

I remember reading how he missed the big meeting in Canberra regarding Ansett's demise ( due to fog )and how he was "incandescent with rage" after Howard took the advice of one Max Moore-Wilton , who happened to be great buddy of Dixon's , that effectively sunk Ansett.

Just because Q.F is an Aussie icon don't think it is immune from cost cutting by new overseas owners. Just ask anyone who worked for Arnott's , Speedo, Kraft , etc etc.

Remember wolfman, we are talking local nights as defined by our EBA, ie at least 8 hrs between 2200-0800, NOT sunsets or whatever other definitions you can think of that are not relevant.

example, arrive somewhere, say, Monday night signoff 0030, depart 48hrs later, ie sign on 0030 Wednesday night.
Monday night is not a local night, less than 8 hrs from 0030-0800.
Tuesday night is a local night.
Wednesday night is not a local night, less than 8 hrs 2200-0030.

Result: only ONE local night in a 48 hr slip.

I only sent the PM to save the rest of the community the pain of having this ridiculous argument brought up again.
I'm glad you agree that the job is about the destinations though.

With Branches Everywhere
 

E=mc2 :E :E :E :E

what if...
 

So... what if Qantas colapses... how long do you think it would be before Australia got another full service airline. Would Virgin go more into full service or there happy staying lcc? What are the chances of the Gvt rejecting the take over as well? It sounds like its all fun and games! (i am saying this sarcastically...)

"It sounds like its all fun and games!"

I suppose it would if you had little in the way of mental capacity and lived at home where mummy and daddy pay for everything.

For those hardworking Qantas employees who have families to feed and mortgages it most definitely is NOT fun and games..............

THINK.

If Qantas collapses? :hmm: I would hardly think the new owners would allow their new purchase to COLLAPSE!! May I suggest you pause for a moment and think about your question.

We are not concerned about a possible demise of Qantas - far from it! Our concern is what the new owners will want to do to our employment terms and conditions. We are already in the firing line with the Government's new work place legislation. This takeover just makes our fight even more important. We are fighting for not just our conditions, but the conditions for future crew which may just be YOU!:=

superannuation
 

can anyone tell me if our super is protected from being pillaged by the new owners.

Terribly sorry if i upset you speedbird... didnt mean to. Should have thought, and re worded before posting... And yes, very correct, as if they would let there new purchase go down the drain. However it is still possible for it to collapse. Its possible for any business colapse, whether its got new owners or not. What does this take over mean for the employees? (condition wise...) News is on now, im sure i'll find something out on there... not as in depth as on here though :).
Thank you for being patient with me...

Superanuation
 

SUper is governed by the trust deed. It is fully funded and held in trust. Qantas or the new owners cannot access the funds.

What is vitatally important thought is that our trustees continue to stand up for employees and the four employees trustees are well places to protect us .they include Ian Woods the President of AIPA and MIchael Mijatov the Secretary of the FAAA. Having these guys in our corner is a big plus and makes me more confident.

what can happen however is that the new owners could close down the current scheme though and put us all into new schemes. Our current entitlements would be protected i would think even in that circumstance.


We live in challenging times indeed

PER210,

no problem. Sorry I was probably a bit sensitive.

Your post reminded me of the insensitive nature that the lizard who runs our company exhibits whenever Qantas staff are mentioned.

I understand that no offence was intended on YOUR behalf.

Thanks.

Disengaged Indifference
 

I am tired of the bully boys.
I am tired of worrying about the turds that run the company.
I am tired of being concerned about the Company`s viability.
I am over worrying about my wages,my job,my conditions.
I have no control over any of this crap.
I still enjoy what I do....... just not who I work for.
I will stay `til the end and extract every last cent from this job and travel for my family.
There was life before QF ......there will be(a different) life after.
If nothing else I am resourceful and a survivor.
The thugs can do what they like...they do not...can not...intimidate me.
PharQue them all!!!!

I'm no economics student but If the takeover gets the go ahead from the gov or costello I have a couple of questions.

Why does the new owners want to delist from the stock exchange?

Does everyone HAVE to sell their shares?

Someone onanother thread reckons that the group want to buy all the shares and that is why they don't want to have QF on the exchange but it sounds as if there are other reasons.What if it is to stop someone else making a hostile takeover of the new owners? What if it is so they don't have to explain anything to the ASX? Can they seperate the different parts of QF and then ree list so that the combined share price or inherent value of the group is bigger than the price they paid for the company in the first place?

I realise that the faaa knows everything and that they have thought of everything that we have all thought of or come up with but if the faaa rep here has gotten over his ego problem I have a suggestion.

What if we don't have to sell our shares? Can we get together with the pilots and other qf employee groups and with union funds buy as many qf shares before the takeover is complete and combine them with the ones we already have.

I reckon that as a group such as cabin crew or whatever under the new IR laws we have little to fight with BUT as a shareholding GROUP we might have a bit more punch in our negotiations.

The pilots have thought of this as a pilot goup but what about a Qantas employee group.I reckon between us there must be a fair number of shares and if we spend as much money as we as individuals can afford plus what the unions could buy we might be able to buy a slice of the pie.

But this is only if shareholders don't have to seel their shares.

ps twiggs NFI

in a buyout, my understanding is that when 90% of the shares are aquired then the remaining shares are compulsorily sold. You dont have a choice "not" to sell them.

The law is complex on acquistions and mergers but the small shareholding of the staff and non institutional shareholders by comparison to the massive shareholdings of the institutional investors make the deal a forgone conclusion one would think.

In terms of the staff banding together to stop the buyout would not be remotely possible as we would need to raise nearly 2 billion dollars of share script to do that.

As the Actu and the fAAA have indicated, the best hope is that the government and regulators step in. This is clearly a good deal for shareholders but not a good one potentially for Qantas or its staff in the longer term.

once qantas is owned as a private company it is far less open to scrutiny like a publicly listed company. The best source of information on the take over are Robert Gottleibsens writings in the papers and also the finincial review.

For its part i am sure the ACTU and Qantas Unions will have a view on this stuff and provide updated informations to their members as they did on thursday and friday. On the FAAA website and via email you can find some preliminary comment from the Qantas unions and the ACTU

roamingwolf's questions and comments
 

Firstly, roamingwolf, even though your comments in relation to "the faaa knows everything and has thought of everything" is sarcastic, nevertheless it's true.
Some of you on here have to realise that the qualified staff and the experienced officials of the FAAA are likely to have discussed all scenarios and asked the relevant questions in relation to the matters you raise on here. It would be a real worry if those employed in the FAAA knew less that the members of the FAAA.
Now to your questions:-
1) Once the Macquarie bank consortium reaches 90% acquisitions of Qantas shares , the LAW requires that the remaining shares MUST be sold by those who hold them to the Consortium.
2) What is to stop someone else making a bid of the new owners?- well once they totally own all the qantas shares...qantas will no longer be a listed company on the stock exchange and therefore no one can "take over" the new Qantas because there are no shares to take over. It will be a private Company not listed on the ASX( Aust stock exchange).
3) The only entity or entities that could be then taken over, are the various companies that make up the consortium that own QANTAS, for example Maquarie Bank OR the Texas Company that might happen to be listed public Companies.
4) The new owners could seperate different parts of Qantas and sell them off. Absolutely, this is the case and this is being speculated eg, Qantas catering Qantas holidays etc.
5) Institutional investors ie big companies and fund managers hold 80% of the Qantas stock...so you can see that the takeover is a mere formality... total staff held shares are only about 0.3% of the total in other words 1/300 of total shares.
6) Union super funds are regulated by law like all other super funds...they cannot act in a POLITICAL MANNER TO BUY OR SELL SHARES. If they did, their management would be in prison.
I hope the above substantially answers your questions roamingwolf, and don't feel disappointed that others in the FAAA know more than you or others on this forum.... for pete's sake that is why they are employed and elected!!
Merry xmas roamingwolf :)

privatisation
 

the only way macquarie etc can be stopped is if someone else
makes a higher bid e.g. $6.00 a share
qf would still be privatised

costello
 

can stop the deal how unlikely it may seem. but the big concern is not just the accc but also the US banks which control the 10 bilion plus in debt. a more scary scenario:ugh: Ansett 2 in the making:=

Answer to question #1.
My understanding of your first question is that a PRIVATE company ( what we will be from March ) will be run a lot tighter, and not have the AGM's ( saving millions of bucks alone) to worry about as the majority stakeholders /shareholders will be predominately be made up of the Board. It will effectively reduce the layers of management. So that if they want action-they'll get it immediately rather than going thru the layers/silo's that exits at the moment. My prediction is that it will be steady as she goes from now 'till March then if will be FULL STEAM, as the Equity Group will want to see at least a $1billion return for this finacial year......at least. If not , the Sustainable Futures campaign will look like a Wiggles concert in comparison to the next edict.

Q #2.

Anyone with shares will get a cheque in the mail come March for the number of the shares they have x $5.60. My advice is-DO NOT do your own tax return at the end of this financial year as there will need to be some nifty accounting to minimise the tax on the shares , particularly if you have a few!!!

Not over yet.
The floating of Qantas on to the public stock exchange achieved two things for the Labor govt at the time.
1 It raised plenty of money for the govt to service its debt(govt selling the family silver).

2 It was shouted from the rooftops by the govt that the sale would allow the public( your average aussie and mum and dad investor) to own a piece of an aussie icon.

It was always firmly held that there was nothing to fear as it was a publicly listed company it would be structured to ensure that no more than 49% could be foreig owned. The rest was to remain Australian.The inference by our leaders that it would always remain the case as it is essential to the national interest and transport strucure of Australia, nationally and internationally.

When it sinks in to Joe Public that their Qantas is not theirs anymore but now owned by a company that is answerable to no one Australian provides it breaks no laws then i think there will be a significant shift in public opinion.
At the moment joe public is concentrating on Christmas and the New year not someone buying an airline.

Once people start contacting politicians and voicing their concern that Qantas is to remain public NOT private property Costello and Howard may listen.They do have an election soon.

Rudd has highlighted the tremendous pressure 10 Billion debt creates for a business that is constantly fighting to remain competitive and profitable.

No Government wants to be known as the one who let Qantas _ Australias greatest icon next to the Harbour Bridge, Uluru and the Opera House, become foreign property. Worse if thorugh some world calamity that it is somehow lost altogether.
Dont be stupid some of you say to yourselves, well who thought when it was publicly floated that it would allow it to become owned by a private business entity. Who ever thought Ansett would collapse?
Time for all of us to stop typing on here for a while and contact all friends, associates and families and get them to call their local federal politician.
Lets get started and stop a privatisation occuring of what should remain the property of the ones whou have bought, paid for and supported it, the Australian public! It should never be allowed!

Time to show the spirit that has made this airline famous. Let us not sit back and watch its demise like happenned to Ansett.We can all do something about it.
Merry Christmas:ok:

...........Jingle bell , jingle bell, jingle bell-ROCK
 

'hate to ruin your Chrissie cheer Hawkeye.

But, you need to get real.

We are playing with the BIG BOYS now.

Joe Public couldn't give a rats rissole, this is just a speedbump on the way to Christmas and Australia winning the Ashes.

By the time the election comes in 2007, everyone would of forgotten.

iCON.......bygone.

This is a "brave new world", we are dealing with people where the mantra is:
WIN AT ALL COSTS, PROFIT BEFORE PEOPLE, BONUS' RULES:hmm:

Stubby,
the big boys do win alot of the time, not ALL of the time.

You wont stand a chance with an attitude like that.

You may say you are being real. I call it defeatist.
It wasnt a defeatist attitude which won our forefathers two world wars. It wasnt a defeatist attitude which was used to found and create Qantas.

You mentioned the ashes, cast your mind back a week ago where the aussies snatched victory from what appeared certain defeat.

Everyone should think back to earlier this year when the Snowy River Scheme was going to be sold. I ask you Stubby, what happenned?

Joe public when realising what was going to happen raised a huge outcry that caused a reversal by both the state and the PM.

No it wont be easy.

Lets follow the ACTUs directive which has been republished on here and contact our pollies. Lets show a bit of aussie spirit and have a go.

I hope your not typical of anyone else on here Stubby. Lets rant and rave and bitch in anger and resentment all year long about how we are poorly managed and continually criticise (at times vehemently) management, the FAAA and anyone who has an alternative opinion; But when asked to fight and have a go when facing adversity and a very dark hour, the first post I read is its all too hard, its the Big boys were up against.

I dont want to read a criticism of the FAAA or our representatives until everyone on here leads by example and pics up a phone or a pen and writes.For all the advice thats given on here its time we started doing something other than offer criticism on what wasnt done after the fact.We all have an opportunity now. A small window of two months.They need our help. and we need to help ourselves.

Complaining on here achieves nothing. Mass complaints to politicians and the like starts to ring bells.Remember the snowy river scheme.

.............a well considered response Hawkeye -Touchez !

Merry Christmas:ok:

We essentially have two problems here.

The first is with the takeover and it's possible ramifications.

The second is with the leadership of the union that represents us.

I agree with Hawkeye that it is time to call in and see your local Federal politician not just call them on the phone.We have an ace up our sleeve and that is the Federal election next year .Politicians usually have only one thing on their minds and that is being re elected and when the election is this close they will be very receptive to ideas on how to get more votes.We can have an impact but we have to do something.

The second problem we have is with our union leadership.Just read the response from Guardian to roamingwolf.If MM and SR actually think they know everything and have thought of everything then they will go the way of the dinosaur and worse still take us with them.The part that I cannot fathom is that not only are they that stupid to actually think that but they are even more brainless and worse, arrogant and egotistical to print it.With their newsletters you would think they represent the company and not us.

The best response they can come up with is to tell us that they have been in talks with the Mac bank for the last 3 months( if you believe that you also believe in the tooth fairy) and a thinly veiled threat for all crew to join the union as well as telling us the blatantly obvious that Howard must go.Yes , that was the measured response from the guys who told us when they were first elected t with much table thumping that would not stand for any rubbish from the company.Now all they can do is tell us and everyone else that we are too expensive and that they are all knowing as if they are some sort of Deity.With them representing us we have a lot of work to do.

Lowerlobe, you are clearly a complete moron. I have never heard any of our FAAA officials say that they know everything. I have read every newsletter and attended every meeting since i became a flight attendant and it has never been said by the current leadership or any of their predeccesors.

I have seen a few anonymous posts in here that some thing or "know" are FAAA officials.

YOu complete dolt Lowelobe, when was the last time you ever offered anything other than critisism. You have never stood for office, you have never got up at a meeting and offered any viable alternates.

Even here, all you do is whinge and critisize. You are one of about 8 people who post in here regularly like myself. We express opinions and discuss things. You almost single handedly link every bad thing that happens to crew to the FAAA.

From my perspective unions have had their wings clipped severely. Given that Long Haul crew still have the best conditions of any crew in the Qantas group and arguably the world, i fail to see how the current FAAA leadership have failed us.

They inherited the worst EBA in the history of the FAAA from the previous leadership and methodically during negotiations and using the media and pressure of threatened industrial action reversed every appalling aspect of that EBA.

At the same time when they came to office they had 500K in the bank, an office manager who worked from home, a receptionsist who no one could understand and a membership officer who hated the members. An office that was run down and costing 120Kpa to rent in the city where members had no access.

Lets look at what was achieved in 2 years since they came to office.

1. Complete reversal of all the failures of EBA 6.
2. An ongoing dialogue with Qantas that has resulted in a few flexibilities that have actually helped to make the Long Haul Division a little more viable.
3. These flexibilities have given the Long Haul FAAA leadership a little credibility with the COmpany in that it "may" lead to another EBA8 rather than the appalling alternatives.
4. The reductions of cost in the FAAA and officials to the tune of taking it from over 36 officials down to 13 keys flight attendant elected officials
5. The Purchase of premises for members that are close to the base for easy accesss and meetings. ( and an asset rather than dead rent)
6. The employment of an accountant to run the FAAA offices and membership system.
7.Two qualified industrial lawyers on the full time staff.


The net result of this is a lean, competent and efficient FAAA that produces timely and concise communication to its members that outshines any union in the country. A union that works hard for its members and provides a boutique level of service and accessibility. A Union that now has 1 Million is cash and a 1.5 million premises paid off. All this in two years.

My question albeity rhetorical is to the former officials.

1. Why did you sell us out in EBA 6 and
2. What did you do with all the money?