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-   -   QANTAS - Australia II (https://www.pprune.org/cabin-crew/253684-qantas-australia-ii.html)

ozskipper 7th Jan 2007 21:45

From AAP:

Govt wants Qantas jobs kept in Australia

Qantas must keep jobs and maintenance facilities in Australia if a consortium bidding to buy the airline is to win federal government approval.

Deputy Prime Minister Mark Vaile told The Australian newspaper the Macquarie Bank led-consortium must provide guarantees on a range of issues for the $11-billion deal to get the nod.

This could also include the bidders committing to maintain its existing flights to regional areas.

"Obviously we can't be too interventionist but this business, particularly post-Ansett, is in a very unique position in the Australian economy and therefore we need to move forward with great care," Mr Vaile said.

Mr Vaile also said the government would not open the lucrative trans-Pacific route for several years to airlines other than Qantas and Virgin Blue.

+++++

Interesting, I guess. At least they're thinking about the future of the airline and its employees. Whether or not it amounts to anything is another thing.

Shlonghaul 7th Jan 2007 23:59

$1200 a week as a mam casual equals $62400 a year............quick Eden, Guardian & Pegasus call GD and tell him that LH crew are not so expensive after all!!!! :E

qcc2 8th Jan 2007 00:05

if i would be a plumber
 
like the guy who did some work in my place, he again is overseas with his 2 kids to disneyland( qantas, of course). that makes it 3 holidays in the last 12 month (2 overseas, one in qld). and financially i think he i pretty well off (i did have a look at his house). i do agree,if you look for a job you need a trade or some qualification (and most f/a's have them including uni degrees). the old saying prevels if you want a job there is one. worst case scenario get your truck licence and head to qld or wa for a 100k+ job in the mines.:E

Pegasus747 8th Jan 2007 02:10

By Long Haul or Short Haul full time staff standards what the MAM flight attendants get it not good. But by Jetstart International Standards its significantly better.

I think that the lack of annual, sick, and LS Leave is appalling, given that they do full time work.

But by community standards its becoming more commonplace.

Those in established jobs or with a skill that is marketable can do better but my friend was Long Term unemployed before he got the position , although had previously held well paid management positions.

Having been through the whoe centrelink experience my friend is very grateful for a well paying job. He does however realise that its a job and not a career which is very sad.

I will get an update from him on income when he gets his next pay which includes three regional flights. BOM, SHA,PEK

will be interested as i dont believe he is misleading me, but it could we be that the pay is variable from month to month depending on hours etc

Bolty McBolt 8th Jan 2007 03:21

roamingwolf

.A close mates wife gets over $50,000 a year in Sydney and is a pa .She is a good worker and I’m not putting her down but mate she is just an organiser not a brain surgeon and she is pulling in a lot more than$35000.
You are out of touch mate, I know quite a few P.A.s in SYD. most are paid 70-80K and the odd one earning over the ton but its all about the skill set you bring to the table..?

I wouldn't have thought many people whom are long term QF employees could leave, change vocation and earn the same money.

Just adding perspective :ok:

roamingwolf 8th Jan 2007 03:56

Bolty,

G'day , as qcc2 said a lot of cabin crew have other qualifications including uni degrees .

the biggest problem is getting your foot in the door mate or knowing someone and that is with just about anything in life.

If you want a job there will be one because we are not specilaised like the tech crew are.

I reckon it depends on if you are willing to move as well and not just work where you have always been.

Mate who knows what the new bosses will bring if they get the OK for the takeover we might have to work in Mt Isa in the mines if we want decent money.

I might have to get the 14 year old to teach me some new computer skills and you never know.But thanks for telling us about the pay scale .There are a few here that reckon you'd be lucky to break 35 K .Things are not as dark as they would make out

qcc2 8th Jan 2007 05:34

spot on
 
bolty, i know a pa which earns around 110k plus car and lots of perks (free tickets to movies, shows, chairmans lounge at he races, jc travel and so on.
its not an easy job but the person loves it dearly and is very good at it. does she sl**p with the boss (like someone we All know), no.;)

cokecropduster 8th Jan 2007 05:41

MAM people get around $1200-?? a fortnight, not a week. But the more a MAM works the more they earn. SYD MAM get more than other bases due to more trips. The more overnight trips the better the pay.

air doris 8th Jan 2007 06:26

Does MAM pay super? What per% of the wage?

cokecropduster 8th Jan 2007 06:51

Super is compulsory... 9%??

air doris 8th Jan 2007 07:17

thanks, I'm hopless with that.

lowerlobe 8th Jan 2007 09:53

Here is an interesting article in the AFR Mon 8th Jan 2007.......

Jeffrey Lucy, chairman of the Australian Securities and Investments Commission, is reported (January 3) as having said in respect of the private equity boom that managing conflicts of interest, such as the potential for executives to make a substantial windfall by supporting bids to take their companies private, would be a key issue for regulators in 2007.

The first major test case is the announcement that Geoff Dixon, chief executive officer of Qantas, has agreed with the bidder that if the private equity takeover of the airline is successful he will have a long-term service contract and will receive a bonus of up to $60 million if certain performance targets are met.

In announcing the recommendation of the takeover bid, the Qantas chairman said that Dixon had not participated in the "board decision-making process", but agreed with the recommendation.

Dixon announced at the same time that the bidder had offered him and he had agreed, that if the takeover was successful he would have a long-term service contract as CEO and that his new salary package would be about the same as he was now receiving but, in addition, he would receive a bonus of up to $60 million depending on Qantas's performance after privatisation. He further said that he had decided to give the bonus to a private fund to be established by him for the benefit of the community, particularly in the areas of medical research and indigenous health and education.

The question is whether the decision to give away the $60 million bonus removes Dixon's conflict of interest or, in the words of Lucy, "manages the conflict". I do not question Dixon's generosity nor his great desire to benefit medical research and indigenous health and education. I have no doubt that he has a real and substantial personal interest in those matters. But has the conflict been removed?

Several points should be noted. First, the bidder has not offered other Qantas employees long-term service contracts nor a bonus. Unlike Dixon, they will, if the takeover is successful, get no job security and no bonus.

Second, for most of us Dixon has been, and is, the face of Qantas. He is reported as being involved in the pre-bid discussions with the bidder and since the announcement has publicly supported it.

Third, Dixon has chosen to give the $60 million bonus to charitable objects and not to the Qantas employees who have no long-term security nor any bonus - despite the fact that Dixon's bonus will be based upon the contribution by other employees to the performance of Qantas. But then, the decision to whom Dixon gives the bonus is his choice - it's his money.

Fourth, Dixon's personal interest in giving to charitable causes remains a personal interest despite his benevolence.

In my view, the proposed donation does not remove the conflict of interest but reinforces it. Dixon's personal interests are in conflict with his position as CEO of Qantas.

Daniel Appleby,

Speed and Stracey Lawyers, Sydney, NSW.



Darth said in an interview that he could not guarantee jobs for Qantas employees or his own.Yet at the same time he would have been aware that if the takeover went ahead (and he was endorsing that very deal) it included a long term contract for him with substantial remuneration and a huge bonus not really seen before in Australia.

FrankFoxworth 8th Jan 2007 13:13

At the risk of being the only atheist in church, the following questions need to be asked .
What is Darth doing with $60 mill of the shareholders loot anyway and what is he doing giving it away ?

Who approves this obscene madness ?

Is it Maggie and the board ?
If I was a shareholder I would be livid and call for their resignations.
This figure represents approx 12% of last years Net Profit … and rightfully belongs to the shareholders.
Is it conscience money for taking food out of his employees and shareholders mouths ?
Since when has this charitable largesse been a part of a public company CEO’s job description ?

As an aside over the next few weeks look no further than the fluctuating share price for a true indicator of the Government's decision on allowing the deal to go ahead.
Personally i'm hoping for a steady decline .

lfdlfp 8th Jan 2007 14:57

Progression
 
Nothing against Jetstar cabin crew, but am I the only one who doesn't see the logic in Jetstar crew progressing to Qantas?
Jetstar is taking over Qantas routes and aircraft, they are growing (some would say at our expense), yet their cabin crew progress to Qantas. I'd rather see the jobs go to people who are desperately trying to get full time work as flight attendants.

NIGELINOZ 8th Jan 2007 20:13

This probably belongs on another forum but it's interesting to note that
Qantas is already dealing with Allco Finance.
A check of the CASA register finds OGG,OGK,OGL,OJG,OJH,and OJJ all listed as being owned by RIL Aviation,c/o Allco Finance Group,Sydney.
There is even one aircraft,OGV registered to a leasing company based in the Cayman Islands!
Could be interesting if the takeover goes ahead Qantas may be leasing aircraft from itself?

qcc2 8th Jan 2007 20:39

another angle
 
allco finance can get their hands on 20 billion dollars+ on new aircraft leases without going for a competetive tendering process. 0.2 percent more then other leasing deals would result in a massive increase (40million) in revenue for allco finance. lets not forget they would provide the new QF chairman and other board members.:ugh:

roamingwolf 8th Jan 2007 21:24

I reckon it's funny that those here that go along with the company spiel do not have a shot at the takeover critics.

Maybe thats because they are scared sh!@!&@# that they are going to lose their jobs too.

Guys and girls it is everybody who has a job at risk not just crew

Mr Seatback 2 8th Jan 2007 23:19

lfdlfp...
JQ Cabin Crew negotiated back in 2002 (when they were QantasLink, and JQ wasn't a blip on our horizon) for Career Progression rights to mainline.
Whilst much has changed since then, we have every right to transfer as does any other wholly owned subsidiary division where the Cabin Crew negotiate for these rights during EBA discussions.
Not having a go, but like all crew in the group, we work damn hard and I believe we've earned our ability to transfer across. Bearing in mind that CP only happens sporadically at best, so it's not as though a huge influx of JQ crew is the beginning of the end.
Understand your point re: JQ taking over, etc etc...but that's a separate issue, and nothing to do with the crew...rather, our illustrious leader and CEO.

"I'd rather see the jobs go to people who are desperately trying to get full time work as flight attendants."
JQ has employed approx 400 full time cabin crew since start up, not to mention Eastern & Sunstate have also recruited heavily over the last couple of years. Yes, it is a great shame and pity the opportunity doesn't exist for Aussies to get full time jobs at QF...but we all know who's responsible for that, don't we?
Not only that, CP only activates when MAM casuals (usually) are converted to full time flight attendants...ONCE, and only once, that has occurred, does CP activate the transfer list.

hornscorp 8th Jan 2007 23:34

Guys and Girls,

I really think you need to start letting up on MAM casuals some of these guys have been trying to get into flying for a very very long time and once they have got in they really love it.....

As far as pay conditions i think that the pay they get is pretty good for the hours they work... there are people working out in the real world earning $15hr as a casual not getting any sick pay, annual leave etc. The guys on contract C can bid for up to 25 days work a month and get a min of 20 days work a month. if they bid high around the month of having to take a month off without pay it more than makes up for it...It is called saving for a rainy day (as my grandma said all the time )

You only have to look at the latest survey rating to see the public have noticed that employing MAM casuals have helped lift the cabin crew satisfaction rating a lot higher than they have been for years....

One must wonder why the company is putting on more MAM casuals i really dont think you need to be a rocket scientist to work it out...

PS I have some really good friends that are SH perm QF employees that agree with me and love working with MAM casuals when they can..

Have a great day and happy flying to all
:)

indamiddle 9th Jan 2007 00:32

mam casual
 
i have a neighbour who is mam.
a couple of years ago when not much flying around she
worked 8 days in 3 months. she had to get another job
to pay the bills. she no longer flies
gd donating the $60m to charity? sop is that most set up
a charitable trust and donate sufficient annually to the trust,
then claim a tax deduction
so that they pay no tax...done properly he may not pay tax
for rest of his life.

lowerlobe 9th Jan 2007 00:52

Hornscorp,

I am certainly not having a go at MAM casuals but instead their conditions and pay.It seems funny to me that there are those who post here that defend those atrocious terms and conditions.

As far as your statement “You only have to look at the latest survey rating to see the public have noticed that employing MAM casuals have helped lift the cabin crew satisfaction rating a lot higher than they have been for years....” ……is concerned that is a load of rubbish…

To try and tell us that the MAM casuals that are employed work harder and are better received than full time crew is a joke. Here is a challenge post the survey results that show pax are happier with MAM casuals than other crew.What floor in Qantas do you work?

roamingwolf 9th Jan 2007 01:15

I tell you what Boys and Girls if Pegasus is right and the pay at mam is over 60 grand a year the application line must be a mile long.On the flip side if it is 1200 a fortnite instead of a week you'd have to be keen.

Wait till GD finds out how much they pay and he'll have a heart attack

Pegasus747 9th Jan 2007 01:22

well a 5 day mumbai is worth about 900 in pay and about 400 plus in non taxable DTA for the MAM casuals. I would suggest that the MAM casuals would also be in the firing line if the Howard govt gets another show in.

The Jetstar INt and domestic crew are paid much less than the mam casuals despite getting holiday pay etc...

The MAM casuals are just part of the COmpany's current strategy to weaken the stranglehold on full time employment. In order to give SH crew part time flying they have agreed to unlimited casuals.

I think unlimited casuals is an appalling industrial strategy but now perfectly legals under the new IR laws. As its illegal to place any CAP on casual or contract staff.

Great challenges for any group of workers to over come let alone just flight attendants.

qcc2 9th Jan 2007 01:25

get on the phone
 
SPECIAL CREW VOICE - EQUITY BID OFFER
A special Crew Voice session will be held Wednesday 10 January
at 11.15am (AUST EST).
This special session will focus on your questions around the
equity bid offer and will be hosted by Lesley Grant,
Group General Manager Customer Product and Services.
Join the conference call by dialling in on the following numbers:
Your Service Access Number is: 1800 681 583 (Domestic Access)
You can call from home or upline - you do not need to be in
the base.
ask her how they equity guys finance the 11 billion, pay the interest, finance new aircraft, pay huge bonuses, pay ongoing fees to everyone involved in the bid and not slash and burn.:*
Cant wait listening to the spin:yuk:

lowerlobe 9th Jan 2007 01:37

Pegasus ,
Do you have anything to say on the comment that pax surveys have shown a rise in satisfaction because of MAM crew compared to full time crew.

It's great to say you will x dollars per whatever trip but what if you are sick or on annual leave and what if you only do a couple of those trips a roster.

mamslave 9th Jan 2007 02:04

mam pay
 
when i was around the pay was great, clearing anywhere from 1800-2400 per fortnight, depending on trips. For the work done its easy money, however dead boring job.

Im sure the pay thing has been done before, but its about $32 per hour i think. So work it out yourselves...

I have a question though, and I am not pointing the finger at anyone, but it seems the regular posters of the qantas forum are constantly posting on here.

Do you guys ever work in the air? Or are you office spies?

NIGELINOZ 9th Jan 2007 03:14

What Pax Surveys ?
 
I did 47 trips as a passenger with Qantas in 2006 and I was never surveyed about C/Crew or anything to do with Qantas,perhaps I was unlucky,to tell you the truth I wouldn't know the difference between an MAM employee or a Qantas one,they all seem to wear the same uniform so it would be hard for anyone to say with any authority that customer satisfaction had improved if the pax couldn't tell the difference.

lowerlobe 9th Jan 2007 03:15

mamslave,

We live in interesting times and it pays to keep your eye on the ball.I don't know what you do for a living now but have you heard of internet cafes and lap tops?

The question remains why do you post when you are no longer a crew member.You can hardly criticise others for posting on this and the MAM thread when you are no longer one yourself.

There seems to be a large discrepancy with various MAM crew posting pay figures.You tell us 32.00 others have said 25.00 per hour .However if you are telling us that you used to get 62400 a year then L/H are certainly not the most expensive around in QF.

DEFCON4 9th Jan 2007 03:18

Permanent Crew cf. Casuals
 
As a passenger how would you be able to differentiate between permanent crew and casuals?
I have yet to see a badge that says "I am a Casual"
Please dont go on about differing attitude.
Although permanent crew do live under the threat of clause 11s and may not be prepared to have a joke just in case.
I definitely can`t tell the difference:confused:

mamslave 9th Jan 2007 03:32

LL
 
LL


Well its a base of around $27 i think plus the $4.98 dta, give or take...

lowerlobe please dont attack me.

I feel i can still post on this board as many of my friends still fly @ mam and still keep me in the loop.

As for laptops and netcafes, don't you have better things to do on an overnight, rather than to post on pprune???

flytheplanemay 9th Jan 2007 03:36

As a general rule, I would say that MAM casuals would have an 'eager to please anybody' attitude, so they get good feedback and would hope this would lead to being offered a permanent position.

sydney s/h 9th Jan 2007 04:51

The way you can tell a MAM casual is they are 21yrs old and younger, pretty good looking and do all the crap flying.

If your on the QF401, SYD-MEL 0515am sign-on for a 4.50hr duty -then the flight is full of them. (or a CBR return - 3hr20min duty)

Full timers dont want that!


on a different note... Maq Bank shares are $76.85 each. Holy crap!

DEFCON4 9th Jan 2007 06:14

Crew Differentiation
 
...and the customer says ..you are so eager to please golly gosh you must be a MAM casual.
C`mon people..most of the SLF dont even know a K seat from an A seat.
Give me a break.

cokecropduster 9th Jan 2007 06:36

MAM oh MAM... the hourly rate is high ($31ish, including DTA) because you don't get paid when you are sick or when there are too many people and not enough work, etc.

MAM have 3 contracts:
A: Original contract. A's were ANSETT flight attendants employed when AN collapsed. They tell QF when they want to work, but get work after Contract C&B's have all been used. Were offered permanent work if they moved to PER base in 05. Some are now CSM's in QF.

B: Have to give QF 12 days a month. 3 days are given or allocated to them by the company (always a weekend or public holiday).

C: Current contract. Must work 20 days a month which is allocated to them by the company. They can request to have 3 days off but during Christmas, New Year, etc. they don't get their requested days off. They must take one full month off every year. They are guaranteed 85hours per month pay.

You can see clearly that MAM is NOT on a good deal if you take into effect that they are NEVER going to get a full-time job with QF. Especially, contract C who are Full-time employees at casual rates. C Contract people are worked hard... over 120 hours a month easy in normal months (not slow months like this month).

The new contract C has brought in alot more people that are young. Some respect the job but some do not. Maybe because it used to be alot harder to get in... now.... too easy.

GD said around 00-01?? that he wants a 40% casual workforce... I guess you have to admit... he did warn us!

Pegasus747 9th Jan 2007 08:34

I dont believe a single word about surveys. Not a word. I have seen all the surveys on my flights and read them all. I have rarely if ever seen a survey that rated Cabin Crew less than very good.

I find it impossible to believe that anyone could differentiate between any class of employee in analyzing the survey results unless they were looking at whole flights and routes where crew were segrgated into classifications, and i dont blieve that is the case

TightSlot 9th Jan 2007 08:48

This thread has now reached a pretty big size, so for ease of use and housekeeping, a new thread has been opened here - QANTAS - Australia III - please continue conversations on the new thread.

Usual conditions apply - and please try not to get into a new MAM row on issues which cannot be proven either way.


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