Trouble at Eastern/Qantaslink!
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Yes Trolley_Guy and GalleyHag you are both exactly right.
There is now nowhere for Eastern Crew to go.
It's tragic, but it appears that QF have played their ace and EAA crew have lost the game.
SG
There is now nowhere for Eastern Crew to go.
It's tragic, but it appears that QF have played their ace and EAA crew have lost the game.
SG
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Well it would seem that things get more interesting by the day at Eastern. All cabin crew just received the following email:
23 May 2003
To all Eastern Flight Attendants,
Effective immediately, I have resigned as your FAAA representative. Contrary to what some flight attendants may think, I have only the best intentions for the F/A group. I am no longer contactable for EBA issues. Any enquires should be directed to (names withheld). Thankyou to all flight attendants who have supported me over the last two years.
(name withheld)
Another interesting point I have discovered over the last couple of days. When Southern was closed, Eastern "inherited" the 4 Southern CP places, taking Eastern's total to 8 CP slots every six months. An additional 2 were negotiated during EBA discussions taking the total to 10. Our union rep has been telling the crew that if the EBA is not signed then CP will drop back from 10 to 4 places. At no time have we been told this by management, who's response has been:
"The Company remains committed to the increased numbers for Carrer Progression and as importantly has also confirmed Qantas is also committed to the agreement even in the present significant turndown. However, Eastern management wants the EBA resolved before finalising this matter."
Also the Career Progression document is the one document covering all the regionals ie; Eastern, Sunstate and Southern(now Eastern). Career Progression cannot be removed from Eastern without affecting Sunstate! It is my opinion that the company is trying to call our bluff with the only thing they have left and that is CP. It is not the first time this dirty trick has been played out during an EBA and it certainly wont be the last!
And even for those crew who are close to the top and are being swayed by the "extra" 8 slots taking the total to 18 in the next progression, think again. You could still be at Eastern for quite some time yet given to current situation at Qantas. Base your voting decision on the EBA not on CP. Don't let your legacy at Eastern be poor wages and even poorer conditions for future Eastern Flight Attendants.
23 May 2003
To all Eastern Flight Attendants,
Effective immediately, I have resigned as your FAAA representative. Contrary to what some flight attendants may think, I have only the best intentions for the F/A group. I am no longer contactable for EBA issues. Any enquires should be directed to (names withheld). Thankyou to all flight attendants who have supported me over the last two years.
(name withheld)
Another interesting point I have discovered over the last couple of days. When Southern was closed, Eastern "inherited" the 4 Southern CP places, taking Eastern's total to 8 CP slots every six months. An additional 2 were negotiated during EBA discussions taking the total to 10. Our union rep has been telling the crew that if the EBA is not signed then CP will drop back from 10 to 4 places. At no time have we been told this by management, who's response has been:
"The Company remains committed to the increased numbers for Carrer Progression and as importantly has also confirmed Qantas is also committed to the agreement even in the present significant turndown. However, Eastern management wants the EBA resolved before finalising this matter."
Also the Career Progression document is the one document covering all the regionals ie; Eastern, Sunstate and Southern(now Eastern). Career Progression cannot be removed from Eastern without affecting Sunstate! It is my opinion that the company is trying to call our bluff with the only thing they have left and that is CP. It is not the first time this dirty trick has been played out during an EBA and it certainly wont be the last!
And even for those crew who are close to the top and are being swayed by the "extra" 8 slots taking the total to 18 in the next progression, think again. You could still be at Eastern for quite some time yet given to current situation at Qantas. Base your voting decision on the EBA not on CP. Don't let your legacy at Eastern be poor wages and even poorer conditions for future Eastern Flight Attendants.
Last edited by Trolley_Guy; 28th May 2003 at 13:40.
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Trolley_Guy
I read with great interest your postings.
Why dont you be pro-active and put your hand up to be an EAA FAAA rep? It is obvious you are not happy and feel better salary and conditions can be achieved BUT just how do you think this will be achieved through Industrial action? If so you are kidding yourself.
Do not begrudge people thinking about CP they have put in their time and sometimes in life you just have to think about yourself Im sorry if that seems harsh but that is the nature of EAA and always has been. I moved over to QF some time ago now and the thinking was the same with 30 f/a's let alone over 100.
I also think your posting and personal attack on a public forum of your FAAA rep is totally uncalled for, obviously your rep has done the best they can and as stated above if you can do better try your hardest.
I read with great interest your postings.
Why dont you be pro-active and put your hand up to be an EAA FAAA rep? It is obvious you are not happy and feel better salary and conditions can be achieved BUT just how do you think this will be achieved through Industrial action? If so you are kidding yourself.
Do not begrudge people thinking about CP they have put in their time and sometimes in life you just have to think about yourself Im sorry if that seems harsh but that is the nature of EAA and always has been. I moved over to QF some time ago now and the thinking was the same with 30 f/a's let alone over 100.
I also think your posting and personal attack on a public forum of your FAAA rep is totally uncalled for, obviously your rep has done the best they can and as stated above if you can do better try your hardest.
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Sure, the CP carrot has been dangled in front of our faces, but that is not the only carrot that has been dangled. What about the 3% back pay? If the EBA is voted down we will not get that either. It seems that will also be a way of getting the EBA voted in, as many FA's that I have spoken to are all for the back pay.
The two important matters for all FA's are money and CP. It is clear that we are never going to get the money that we are after. We would need a 20% pay rise for before I was ever happy with the salary. And that is just never going to happen, it doesnt matter how many times we vote the EBA down. So I believe that CP is the next best thing. If we vote yes, we will get those extra 8 FA's across to S/H. This is speeding our CP up by almost 1 year.
Certainly, we are all possibly at EAA for many years to come. But keeping in mind, that ever since we have had the CP agreement, there has only ever been 1 year that we have not had any FA's progress over. The down turn in the industry can not last forever, and will one day will pick up again. I have even heard rumours that QF may be calling people from the short lists as soon as the end of this year or early next. So think about it, if this does happen, your seniority will go up by 18. And after that another 10. So if these rumours are true, we could possibly be 28 positions closer to progressing over with in the next year or two.
If you are an EAA FA reading this, I'd just like you to think about what a no vote will achieve? What can we do? We can not strike, the FAAA are not behind us regarding striking. It's great in theory to say lets all stick together, but this clearly will not happen once all the FA's realise that the FAAA are not backing us on the strike. I think we would be lucky to have a hand full of FA's strike if it came down to it. So what are the other options? The EBA will go back to the drawing board once again. What will we get out of that? They may possibly give us something that is quiet irrelevant to many FA's, such as more roster requests ect. Those are the small things that really do not matter to most FA's. So again, what will a no vote achieve? More dollars? Clearly not!
As much as I hate to say it, but I think we are all cornered. We have no where to go. So why not vote yes, get the back pay, and also get those extra 8 FA's across in the next CP.
I know its a touchy subject at the moment, but reality is, I can never see us getting the money that we all deserve. So lets just think about the next best thing, and that is CP.
The two important matters for all FA's are money and CP. It is clear that we are never going to get the money that we are after. We would need a 20% pay rise for before I was ever happy with the salary. And that is just never going to happen, it doesnt matter how many times we vote the EBA down. So I believe that CP is the next best thing. If we vote yes, we will get those extra 8 FA's across to S/H. This is speeding our CP up by almost 1 year.
Certainly, we are all possibly at EAA for many years to come. But keeping in mind, that ever since we have had the CP agreement, there has only ever been 1 year that we have not had any FA's progress over. The down turn in the industry can not last forever, and will one day will pick up again. I have even heard rumours that QF may be calling people from the short lists as soon as the end of this year or early next. So think about it, if this does happen, your seniority will go up by 18. And after that another 10. So if these rumours are true, we could possibly be 28 positions closer to progressing over with in the next year or two.
If you are an EAA FA reading this, I'd just like you to think about what a no vote will achieve? What can we do? We can not strike, the FAAA are not behind us regarding striking. It's great in theory to say lets all stick together, but this clearly will not happen once all the FA's realise that the FAAA are not backing us on the strike. I think we would be lucky to have a hand full of FA's strike if it came down to it. So what are the other options? The EBA will go back to the drawing board once again. What will we get out of that? They may possibly give us something that is quiet irrelevant to many FA's, such as more roster requests ect. Those are the small things that really do not matter to most FA's. So again, what will a no vote achieve? More dollars? Clearly not!
As much as I hate to say it, but I think we are all cornered. We have no where to go. So why not vote yes, get the back pay, and also get those extra 8 FA's across in the next CP.
I know its a touchy subject at the moment, but reality is, I can never see us getting the money that we all deserve. So lets just think about the next best thing, and that is CP.
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(I have to agree with you Galley Hag.)
Trolley_Guy if you feel so strongly about the EBA and industrial issues with EAA then why dont you do something constructive with all of your energy and become a FAAA Rep, yourself!!
Maybe you dont seem to understand. I will spell it out to you. The Union Rep you are attacking in your post is somebody who has put in an enormous amount of effort - ALL unpaid and ALL in their OWN TIME!!!
I dont understand what has happened to make this person want to resign at this point - but I would imagine the stress levels would have been enormous. AND to top it all off - people are beating up on you when you are simply trying your best in a tough enviornment, well WHY would you continue to do it to yourself? (Ask yourself, Trolley_ Guy: would you have been able to achieve more/do better/hold together longer? What have you done to make this EBA better?) I know for a fact that your Rep was a very dedicated person with everyones interests at heart. It is a real shame that you have lost him.
Trolley_Guy if you feel so strongly about the EBA and industrial issues with EAA then why dont you do something constructive with all of your energy and become a FAAA Rep, yourself!!
Maybe you dont seem to understand. I will spell it out to you. The Union Rep you are attacking in your post is somebody who has put in an enormous amount of effort - ALL unpaid and ALL in their OWN TIME!!!
I dont understand what has happened to make this person want to resign at this point - but I would imagine the stress levels would have been enormous. AND to top it all off - people are beating up on you when you are simply trying your best in a tough enviornment, well WHY would you continue to do it to yourself? (Ask yourself, Trolley_ Guy: would you have been able to achieve more/do better/hold together longer? What have you done to make this EBA better?) I know for a fact that your Rep was a very dedicated person with everyones interests at heart. It is a real shame that you have lost him.
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I couldn't agree more with you Qwannas.
As someone who has seen your former EAA rep hard at work (he was never anything else but!), I'm not surprised he resigned - and why?
BECAUSE NEGOTIATING AN EBA - particularly in THIS climate - IS AN ALL CONSUMING, THANKLESS AND TERRIBLE POSITION!
Your Rep, Trolley Guy - despite your insinutations, has given HIS CAREER AT EAA in representing EAA FA's in all manner of areas - not least of which EBA. The role of a delegate means you get nothing but people bitching and whingeing to you on an almost daily basis, consuming every little bit of spare time you have - including days off, time off on overnights and even sometimes during turnarounds. To be able to do this and still keep focussed on the problems at hand (and still keep smiling) is testament to anyone capable and strong enough to do the job.
To be honest, I'm not surprised he resigned, as the atmosphere at EAA I'm led to believe is nothing short of poisonous - and no matter what he tried, I'm sure it still wouldn't have been good enough for the small minority. I should know - I've been down this road before, and it's very destroying personally.
I for one wish him all the best under the circumstances - and conversely hope EAA finds itself another Rep with just as much dedication, professionalism and enthusiasm as the one you've just lost.
Food for thought - he may not have resigned as the delegate if he didn't become an EBA 'punching bag' for crew. Delegates are fellow crew and humans also. It takes a great deal of determination and patience to try and negotiate some of the smallest gains in an airline like EAA - particularly as EAA is a subsidiary of the big Roo.
Unless you think you could do a better job, don't knock the efforts of those who do all this work in their spare time UNLESS YOU CAN DO IT AS WELL!
Sorry for the CAPS guys, but seeing this Rep get kicked in the guts really upsets me, as I know for a fact having seen him at work he has given nothing but 110% to improving the worklife of Eastern Crew.
That kind of dedication doesn't suit everyone Trolley Guy, and I'd be really interested to see whether or not you have what it takes to take over and give up as much free time as your former Rep did. Not trying to throw a gauntlet or anything Trolley Guy, but until you've done the job (and no offence meant) YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT!
Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
As someone who has seen your former EAA rep hard at work (he was never anything else but!), I'm not surprised he resigned - and why?
BECAUSE NEGOTIATING AN EBA - particularly in THIS climate - IS AN ALL CONSUMING, THANKLESS AND TERRIBLE POSITION!
Your Rep, Trolley Guy - despite your insinutations, has given HIS CAREER AT EAA in representing EAA FA's in all manner of areas - not least of which EBA. The role of a delegate means you get nothing but people bitching and whingeing to you on an almost daily basis, consuming every little bit of spare time you have - including days off, time off on overnights and even sometimes during turnarounds. To be able to do this and still keep focussed on the problems at hand (and still keep smiling) is testament to anyone capable and strong enough to do the job.
To be honest, I'm not surprised he resigned, as the atmosphere at EAA I'm led to believe is nothing short of poisonous - and no matter what he tried, I'm sure it still wouldn't have been good enough for the small minority. I should know - I've been down this road before, and it's very destroying personally.
I for one wish him all the best under the circumstances - and conversely hope EAA finds itself another Rep with just as much dedication, professionalism and enthusiasm as the one you've just lost.
Food for thought - he may not have resigned as the delegate if he didn't become an EBA 'punching bag' for crew. Delegates are fellow crew and humans also. It takes a great deal of determination and patience to try and negotiate some of the smallest gains in an airline like EAA - particularly as EAA is a subsidiary of the big Roo.
Unless you think you could do a better job, don't knock the efforts of those who do all this work in their spare time UNLESS YOU CAN DO IT AS WELL!
Sorry for the CAPS guys, but seeing this Rep get kicked in the guts really upsets me, as I know for a fact having seen him at work he has given nothing but 110% to improving the worklife of Eastern Crew.
That kind of dedication doesn't suit everyone Trolley Guy, and I'd be really interested to see whether or not you have what it takes to take over and give up as much free time as your former Rep did. Not trying to throw a gauntlet or anything Trolley Guy, but until you've done the job (and no offence meant) YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT!
Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
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TrolleyGuy -
I hate to say it but what you said was way out of line, Pal. I'd like to see you do a better job.
cloudnine -
I know it is easy for non-EAA people to say this but you should all stick in there. By staying strong you will show them just how important you are. They already know that they are ripping you off. You just need to show them that enough is enough. You are obviously all there becuase you are great FAs. (ie. you ain't just there for the money or lifestyle!!) it is about time you are RECOGNISED and REWARDED.
You are the POO. Tell EAA to take a big whiff!
I hate to say it but what you said was way out of line, Pal. I'd like to see you do a better job.
cloudnine -
I know it is easy for non-EAA people to say this but you should all stick in there. By staying strong you will show them just how important you are. They already know that they are ripping you off. You just need to show them that enough is enough. You are obviously all there becuase you are great FAs. (ie. you ain't just there for the money or lifestyle!!) it is about time you are RECOGNISED and REWARDED.
You are the POO. Tell EAA to take a big whiff!
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Just what is the backpay worth to everyone......
Not much more maybe than a couple of hundred dollars?
There is a concern by the company that industrial action is about to be taken during the EBA negotiations.
The HR guys have begun contacting ex-cabin crew offerring....
"casual contract work for a limited period as cabin crew, as possible work opportunities might be available in the near future with Eastern".
The same call was made to a fellow Eastern crew member yesterday, obviously by mistake.
After the offer of work was made, the disappointed Eastern F/A mentioned that they were already a full-time employee.
Apparently, the back-pedalling was too delicious to hear!
......by the way, where are they getting contact details from?
Not much more maybe than a couple of hundred dollars?
There is a concern by the company that industrial action is about to be taken during the EBA negotiations.
The HR guys have begun contacting ex-cabin crew offerring....
"casual contract work for a limited period as cabin crew, as possible work opportunities might be available in the near future with Eastern".
The same call was made to a fellow Eastern crew member yesterday, obviously by mistake.
After the offer of work was made, the disappointed Eastern F/A mentioned that they were already a full-time employee.
Apparently, the back-pedalling was too delicious to hear!
......by the way, where are they getting contact details from?
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Dear Jupiter 2
Just to let you know, and I doubled checked with the Association, the back pay will also include all 'wage related allowances' not just the 3% from Sept 06 2002. If the EBA gets up you will also be due another 3% in Sept of this year.
The operative date if retained means you will only have two years to run on that agreement. You could start negotiating again in 20 or so months time on EBA V. Hopefully the industry will be in better shape.
Hope this helps
Just to let you know, and I doubled checked with the Association, the back pay will also include all 'wage related allowances' not just the 3% from Sept 06 2002. If the EBA gets up you will also be due another 3% in Sept of this year.
The operative date if retained means you will only have two years to run on that agreement. You could start negotiating again in 20 or so months time on EBA V. Hopefully the industry will be in better shape.
Hope this helps
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Come now people.. ease off on Trolley_Guy. He is just expressing his opinion as he is entitled to do. You may not agree with him, but at least respect his right to say what he wants to say.
These are the facts :
Company offered an EBA document, endorsed by FAAA and company. EAA FAs voted NO.
Company and FAAA not happy Jan!
Company offers the EXACT SAME EBA document to vote on, but this time threatens to remove extra progression slots (which is supposedly a seperate document) and also remove the operative date for backpay purposes. It also offers the extra sweetener of 8 more progression slots to cover the Perth base recruitment.
So, where does that leave EAA crew?
In one of two places.
If you are senior (I use that term loosely, "senior" in EAA is 4 years) then you have the word PROGRESSION in flashing lights above your head. To vote YES may cut your time remaining in Eastern from 2 years to 6 months. This is of course assuming that QF will recruit permanent crew again any time soon.
If you are junior, then you realise that you will probably be in Eastern for the life of the agreement (3 years, 2 years remaining). Progression may be a long way off ... eg. if you are the most junior, even with 10 progression slots every six months and constant recruitment it will take 6 years to get to QF... so progression may not be a huge issue for you. Money and conditions become more important.
My question is.. what are we voting on? As far as I'm concerned, it was always sprouted that the progression document was a seperate document. So, I'm not going to vote based on that document, one I've never seen, and for all I know never really exists.
Eastern crew are cutting each others' throats. Seniors will sell out the juniors to get themselves over to QF, and juniors will sell out the seniors to get better wages and conditions for themselves.
This is not a crew united.
SG
Oh just want to add that I think our (former) FAAA guy is a top bloke, and I don't envy his position at all.
These are the facts :
Company offered an EBA document, endorsed by FAAA and company. EAA FAs voted NO.
Company and FAAA not happy Jan!
Company offers the EXACT SAME EBA document to vote on, but this time threatens to remove extra progression slots (which is supposedly a seperate document) and also remove the operative date for backpay purposes. It also offers the extra sweetener of 8 more progression slots to cover the Perth base recruitment.
So, where does that leave EAA crew?
In one of two places.
If you are senior (I use that term loosely, "senior" in EAA is 4 years) then you have the word PROGRESSION in flashing lights above your head. To vote YES may cut your time remaining in Eastern from 2 years to 6 months. This is of course assuming that QF will recruit permanent crew again any time soon.
If you are junior, then you realise that you will probably be in Eastern for the life of the agreement (3 years, 2 years remaining). Progression may be a long way off ... eg. if you are the most junior, even with 10 progression slots every six months and constant recruitment it will take 6 years to get to QF... so progression may not be a huge issue for you. Money and conditions become more important.
My question is.. what are we voting on? As far as I'm concerned, it was always sprouted that the progression document was a seperate document. So, I'm not going to vote based on that document, one I've never seen, and for all I know never really exists.
Eastern crew are cutting each others' throats. Seniors will sell out the juniors to get themselves over to QF, and juniors will sell out the seniors to get better wages and conditions for themselves.
This is not a crew united.
SG
Oh just want to add that I think our (former) FAAA guy is a top bloke, and I don't envy his position at all.
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In regards to my previous post, we have now been informed that the FAAA will stand behind us if we decide to take action. This is a relief, and has made myself and a few other FA's re-think what we will vote.
Its a known fact that we will not get any more than a 3x3x3 % payrise. So if we put that a side with the seperate CP document, and base our vote just on achieving "better conditions", I still would like to know where that will get us all? It's easy to say we want "better conditions", but what conditions would make it a better place to work if CP and pay are out of the question? As I wrote before, they are the two main issues.
So what else do we want? Are we after longer rest periods on over nights, less duty hours per roster? I'd really like to hear everyones thoughts on what "conditions" it is that we are after, again remembering that we are not discussing CP or pay.
An interesting time for us all.......
Its a known fact that we will not get any more than a 3x3x3 % payrise. So if we put that a side with the seperate CP document, and base our vote just on achieving "better conditions", I still would like to know where that will get us all? It's easy to say we want "better conditions", but what conditions would make it a better place to work if CP and pay are out of the question? As I wrote before, they are the two main issues.
So what else do we want? Are we after longer rest periods on over nights, less duty hours per roster? I'd really like to hear everyones thoughts on what "conditions" it is that we are after, again remembering that we are not discussing CP or pay.
An interesting time for us all.......
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Syd Girl
I'm not against anyone - least of which Trolley Guy - expressing an opinion regarding recent events. What I am against is assassinating a person's character based upon VOLUNTEER work they provide to their fellow crew - that of course being totally unwarranted and unfair.
Now, I have been guilty character assassination on this forum myself. We all make mistakes in the heat of the moment - EBA negotiations themselves can be quite passionate times for crew as they struggle to obtain fairer conditions.
However, on that single occasion I did apologise for my actions, and I sincerely hope that if Trolley Guy has read these posts he either admits he was wrong, or apologises for making unfair comments about what you also call Syd Girl 'a top bloke'.
EBA negotiations for any airline - not least of which include Eastern - are always going to be tough. There were crew at long haul who didn't participate in the strike at all the last time, so it doesn't matter what you and many others think, these days the 'united' stance among crew can be quite fractured, given the many hidden agendas of individuals in our industry today.
Everyone's job as a member of operating crew is to stand up for what you believe in, and where possible, garner support from others who are in the same position as you! If there are those who don't want to stand united, remember these are individuals who whinge, whine and complain the most and yet always want someone else to do the hard work and standing up for them.
I would probably suggest you all determine amongst each other what conditions specifically affect you all, and from there, determine which ones need improving and by how much. It's no good if you all talk about something as individuals in this situation - you need to band together and present a clear, majority case outlining what it is specifically you wish to improve and to what level. Only then will you get the attention and recognition you deserve.
I'm not against anyone - least of which Trolley Guy - expressing an opinion regarding recent events. What I am against is assassinating a person's character based upon VOLUNTEER work they provide to their fellow crew - that of course being totally unwarranted and unfair.
Now, I have been guilty character assassination on this forum myself. We all make mistakes in the heat of the moment - EBA negotiations themselves can be quite passionate times for crew as they struggle to obtain fairer conditions.
However, on that single occasion I did apologise for my actions, and I sincerely hope that if Trolley Guy has read these posts he either admits he was wrong, or apologises for making unfair comments about what you also call Syd Girl 'a top bloke'.
EBA negotiations for any airline - not least of which include Eastern - are always going to be tough. There were crew at long haul who didn't participate in the strike at all the last time, so it doesn't matter what you and many others think, these days the 'united' stance among crew can be quite fractured, given the many hidden agendas of individuals in our industry today.
Everyone's job as a member of operating crew is to stand up for what you believe in, and where possible, garner support from others who are in the same position as you! If there are those who don't want to stand united, remember these are individuals who whinge, whine and complain the most and yet always want someone else to do the hard work and standing up for them.
I would probably suggest you all determine amongst each other what conditions specifically affect you all, and from there, determine which ones need improving and by how much. It's no good if you all talk about something as individuals in this situation - you need to band together and present a clear, majority case outlining what it is specifically you wish to improve and to what level. Only then will you get the attention and recognition you deserve.
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The day is fast approaching (10th June) for the EBA vote and most of the crew seem to be pretty evenly split or have not made up their minds yet.
As expected the Career Progression blackmail is what everyone is talking about. If it does get up it's not because the crew are happy with the EBA, it's due to the fact that CP is threatened.
Interesting times ahead!
As expected the Career Progression blackmail is what everyone is talking about. If it does get up it's not because the crew are happy with the EBA, it's due to the fact that CP is threatened.
Interesting times ahead!
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Majority vote 'No'
I found it amusing to see that the majority of messages posted on this forum to be leaning towards the 'NO' vote in the EBA and then to find that the EBA had been voted up something like.......67 to 34. (I am aware that all EAA don't use this site)
Like many before me have stated.....dangle that carrot CP and watch them bend over!
I also feel that many simply voted 'Yes' because they couldn't be bothered fighting for what they believed in. Even if it meant shortening the life of the EBA so an evaluation of the industry could be done a little sooner!
Too little too late!
Too bad so sad!
The bed has been made and now we have to sleep in it for another 2.5 years (almost).
Cheers, Pushback 747
Like many before me have stated.....dangle that carrot CP and watch them bend over!
I also feel that many simply voted 'Yes' because they couldn't be bothered fighting for what they believed in. Even if it meant shortening the life of the EBA so an evaluation of the industry could be done a little sooner!
Too little too late!
Too bad so sad!
The bed has been made and now we have to sleep in it for another 2.5 years (almost).
Cheers, Pushback 747
Join Date: Jun 2003
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Yes vote!
How dissapointing for Eastern FA's. The EBA was clearly voted in due to the fact that it was going to increase progression.
Now, it looks as though Qantas will only be employing fixed term and casuals, hense no progression from Qantaslink.
Where to now?
Now, it looks as though Qantas will only be employing fixed term and casuals, hense no progression from Qantaslink.
Where to now?
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Unfortunately, I agree with the previous post. However I can understand that the eastern guys and girls felt trapped with no other option, I was once with the formentioned company and have been there done that.
In saying that though, when negotiations started last year the original aim ( re: progression ), so I was told, was to try and guarantee progression/increase numbers, so that it was not linked to permanent recruitment only and more Cabin Crew would transfer. Its great that you guys got the numbers increased, but unfortunately as the previous poster said, Mr Dixon said in his media release that the permanent workforce has to go down and the future will involve fixed term/casuals.
What does this mean now for the regionals? Qantas have given you more slots, yes? But at the same time are laughing at you, because your transfers to mainline are still linked to permanent recruitment only. That needed to be the one thing that changed, and it unfortuantely it didnt. Good luck guys.
In saying that though, when negotiations started last year the original aim ( re: progression ), so I was told, was to try and guarantee progression/increase numbers, so that it was not linked to permanent recruitment only and more Cabin Crew would transfer. Its great that you guys got the numbers increased, but unfortunately as the previous poster said, Mr Dixon said in his media release that the permanent workforce has to go down and the future will involve fixed term/casuals.
What does this mean now for the regionals? Qantas have given you more slots, yes? But at the same time are laughing at you, because your transfers to mainline are still linked to permanent recruitment only. That needed to be the one thing that changed, and it unfortuantely it didnt. Good luck guys.
Join Date: Jun 2003
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CP- what a JOKE!
Bodem, so true my friend, so true.
It's just pathetic how QF came out of the woodwork with the statement that they will be only takeing on casuals and fixed term FA's AFTER Eastern's EBA was voted in. Something seems really susspect there.
If that statement had come out BEFORE I voted, I definatley would have kept voting NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All I have to say is that QF and EAA have rubbed our noses in it!
We work damm hard and do such a great job. So much so that qantaslink were voted in the top 3 for "best Regional service" on Skytracks.
EAA are just lucky that most of us enjoy our lives as cabin crew. Otherwise almost all of us would have left after 6 months.
Career progression has as much reality as Father Christmas and the tooth fairy!
It's just pathetic how QF came out of the woodwork with the statement that they will be only takeing on casuals and fixed term FA's AFTER Eastern's EBA was voted in. Something seems really susspect there.
If that statement had come out BEFORE I voted, I definatley would have kept voting NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All I have to say is that QF and EAA have rubbed our noses in it!
We work damm hard and do such a great job. So much so that qantaslink were voted in the top 3 for "best Regional service" on Skytracks.
EAA are just lucky that most of us enjoy our lives as cabin crew. Otherwise almost all of us would have left after 6 months.
Career progression has as much reality as Father Christmas and the tooth fairy!
Last edited by Hypoxic Harry; 24th Jun 2003 at 18:33.
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Some info to think about
Guys I know it really sucks when you sign something in good faith and there is a hidden agenda.
My info is that there will be progression for our regional friends at the agreed amount but when you get offered a permanent position it will be under contract. For example if I get a job with Emirates it's for 3 years under contract.
It may be renewed but then if you are not required then you are let go.
This is the future of aviation in the mainline world unfortunatly with many people very unhappy.
But it comes back to another airline paying it's staff for basically the same job $20,000 plus less.
The unions have let this ocur and Mr. Dixon gave warning of this 12 months ago and now he has to act because of the lack of even playing field.
Things are bad but not that bad, but a tip for everyone in regionals, progression to mainline dominates everything you ever hear from regional friends and rediculious rumours abound the EAA crew lounge. I hear it as mainline CSM so people much higher in the company use it to leaver other conditions.
Don't put the cart before the horse, bied your time and be mature and professional and it won't be used against you in the future.
Look forward to seeing you mainline soon.
My info is that there will be progression for our regional friends at the agreed amount but when you get offered a permanent position it will be under contract. For example if I get a job with Emirates it's for 3 years under contract.
It may be renewed but then if you are not required then you are let go.
This is the future of aviation in the mainline world unfortunatly with many people very unhappy.
But it comes back to another airline paying it's staff for basically the same job $20,000 plus less.
The unions have let this ocur and Mr. Dixon gave warning of this 12 months ago and now he has to act because of the lack of even playing field.
Things are bad but not that bad, but a tip for everyone in regionals, progression to mainline dominates everything you ever hear from regional friends and rediculious rumours abound the EAA crew lounge. I hear it as mainline CSM so people much higher in the company use it to leaver other conditions.
Don't put the cart before the horse, bied your time and be mature and professional and it won't be used against you in the future.
Look forward to seeing you mainline soon.
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Now thats scary news. If mainline will put regional FA's on a 3 year contract, thats really unstable for us. What if we had another major downturn in the industry. Its bye bye flying, and hello my names Donna and I work as a check out chick for coles.
Personally thats just not good enough for me. Id probably choose to stay at EAA and be guarenteed a job for years to come, rather than have 3 happy years at mainline but risk loosing mt job at the end of those years.
Hard choice to make, very hard. Thankfully I have at least another two years to think about.
Personally thats just not good enough for me. Id probably choose to stay at EAA and be guarenteed a job for years to come, rather than have 3 happy years at mainline but risk loosing mt job at the end of those years.
Hard choice to make, very hard. Thankfully I have at least another two years to think about.