Trouble at Eastern/Qantaslink!
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Trouble at Eastern/Qantaslink!
Things are not looking too bright at Eastern/Q'link currently with the union and company still in debate over our pathetic excuse of an EBA. Still trying to negotiate some improved conditions and wages(even the Dash 8 cleaners get paid more than we do!!)
There are some strong rumours around that Eastern/QF may be in the process of training "scab" labour to crew the Dash 8's, the same as QF did with longhaul recently, if/when the inevitable industrial action take place.
Does anyone out there have any idea if this is true? If so where are they being trained and by whom? Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Do not use the term scab labour in this forum, please.... it is unnecessarly antagonistic given the history in your part of the World, despite whatever personal views one holds...
There are some strong rumours around that Eastern/QF may be in the process of training "scab" labour to crew the Dash 8's, the same as QF did with longhaul recently, if/when the inevitable industrial action take place.
Does anyone out there have any idea if this is true? If so where are they being trained and by whom? Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Do not use the term scab labour in this forum, please.... it is unnecessarly antagonistic given the history in your part of the World, despite whatever personal views one holds...
Last edited by Sick Squid; 28th May 2003 at 01:47.
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Now alarm bells are starting to ring...
Here is a post by Big Waz under the Qantas Recruiting? topic:
"Red Rat Recruitment
A colleague of mine has been training as a back up hostie with QF subsidery Eastern, and thats expected to last a week. He has been told that even though he is shortlisted, it can be either up to a year, or not at all, before he is considered for permenant employment through QF or its subsideries."
I would imagine (all speculation of course) that they are using NJS training facilities (as Sunstate are using them at the moment to pick up additional traffic due lack of aircraft). Further, there are a growing number of sacked NJS crew languishing around Oz right now - would not surprise me in the slightest as to what's going on...
None of the QF crew who worked during the strike will work as CSMs as they were promised (some were promised that they would be promoted to CSM once recruitment began again)...very sad state of affairs...
Hope this isn't the case at all...Not in anyone's best interests (particularly QF) to strike break at the Regionals. They're only putting the entire network at risk!
Here is a post by Big Waz under the Qantas Recruiting? topic:
"Red Rat Recruitment
A colleague of mine has been training as a back up hostie with QF subsidery Eastern, and thats expected to last a week. He has been told that even though he is shortlisted, it can be either up to a year, or not at all, before he is considered for permenant employment through QF or its subsideries."
I would imagine (all speculation of course) that they are using NJS training facilities (as Sunstate are using them at the moment to pick up additional traffic due lack of aircraft). Further, there are a growing number of sacked NJS crew languishing around Oz right now - would not surprise me in the slightest as to what's going on...
None of the QF crew who worked during the strike will work as CSMs as they were promised (some were promised that they would be promoted to CSM once recruitment began again)...very sad state of affairs...
Hope this isn't the case at all...Not in anyone's best interests (particularly QF) to strike break at the Regionals. They're only putting the entire network at risk!
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trolley_guy,
The eastern EBA was only voted NO by 8 votes, this is a real worry because apparently most of your crew did infact want the EBA to suceed the current one in place. I really hope something happens before friday for you guys.Perhaps if all the crew had voted yes or no this would have helped. It has been said that the people who hated it voted "no" but others who liked it didn't even vote because they were happy with the eba and felt no need to vote !
The important thing in EBA negotioations is for all us to stick together and all vote. If only the other people had voted I guess things would be different right now.
I'd be interested to know more about the "people" being trained as DH8 f/a's in case of industrial action - I'm sure the FAAA would love to hear about this one ! And so would I actually !
FYI - Your colleagues at Sunstate have their current EBA finishing on June 30.The bargaining period will start soon.Let's hope it runs a little smoother than the EAA EBA.
CB
The eastern EBA was only voted NO by 8 votes, this is a real worry because apparently most of your crew did infact want the EBA to suceed the current one in place. I really hope something happens before friday for you guys.Perhaps if all the crew had voted yes or no this would have helped. It has been said that the people who hated it voted "no" but others who liked it didn't even vote because they were happy with the eba and felt no need to vote !
The important thing in EBA negotioations is for all us to stick together and all vote. If only the other people had voted I guess things would be different right now.
I'd be interested to know more about the "people" being trained as DH8 f/a's in case of industrial action - I'm sure the FAAA would love to hear about this one ! And so would I actually !
FYI - Your colleagues at Sunstate have their current EBA finishing on June 30.The bargaining period will start soon.Let's hope it runs a little smoother than the EAA EBA.
CB
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Management are aware how motivated the crew are when it comes to the topic of "Progression".
They will offer an increase in progression numbers as a sweetener and the cabin crew will fall over themselves to vote "Yes" in the rush.
They will offer an increase in progression numbers as a sweetener and the cabin crew will fall over themselves to vote "Yes" in the rush.
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Interesting times for the Eastern Flight Attendants. It sure is crunch time for you all, with Industrial Action pending. I wish you all well with the days and weeks ahead. Just to reiterate with what Cabinboy made mention of: It is critical that you stick together and remain focused as a group. (Or you are TOAST!!!) It is THAT detrimental at this point. There will always be trouble makers - just stomp those few out.
Jupiter2 I have to disagree with you with regards to your ideas on what your management can offer with Career Progression for your EBA. Career Progression is an agreement between QF, The Regionals and the FAAA. The FAAA have just recently fought long and hard with QF to increase the CP numbers (they now stand at: Eastern 10 and Sunstate 6 - every six months whilst external recruitment is taking place). I might add that these increases are still not even set in stone - the union are waiting for QF to sign the CP Document. The union have announced that there will be no further discussions with QF regarding these numbers. It is a done deal. CP is a seperate document to your EBA. The EBA will support CP, but the two agreements are definately seperate issues.
I understand your frustration with regards to CP, I truly do - the Sunstate FA's feel just as passionately towards CP as you guys and have the same concerns. However, with the overstaffing situation that SH are trying to deal with at the moment CP is on hold indefinately and we need to all get used to the idea that we are Regional FA's for the long haul (pardon the pun!) What you do need to do is focus on improving the conditions and pay levels that your currently have to help make your stay a more pleasant one.
Once again, good luck to you all - and STICK TOGETHER - you dont have any other choice.
xx
Jupiter2 I have to disagree with you with regards to your ideas on what your management can offer with Career Progression for your EBA. Career Progression is an agreement between QF, The Regionals and the FAAA. The FAAA have just recently fought long and hard with QF to increase the CP numbers (they now stand at: Eastern 10 and Sunstate 6 - every six months whilst external recruitment is taking place). I might add that these increases are still not even set in stone - the union are waiting for QF to sign the CP Document. The union have announced that there will be no further discussions with QF regarding these numbers. It is a done deal. CP is a seperate document to your EBA. The EBA will support CP, but the two agreements are definately seperate issues.
I understand your frustration with regards to CP, I truly do - the Sunstate FA's feel just as passionately towards CP as you guys and have the same concerns. However, with the overstaffing situation that SH are trying to deal with at the moment CP is on hold indefinately and we need to all get used to the idea that we are Regional FA's for the long haul (pardon the pun!) What you do need to do is focus on improving the conditions and pay levels that your currently have to help make your stay a more pleasant one.
Once again, good luck to you all - and STICK TOGETHER - you dont have any other choice.
xx
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Jupiter2
I totally disagree with you. As already stated the CP document has not been signed off. I think what you will find in the next few days is completely the opposite. The company will threaten to take CP away and than the F/A's will be falling over themselves to vote yes.
The company will start to play hard and as CP is not part of the EBA as such they can take it away (or threaten to) at any time. You will find that if CP is at threat the YES vote will get across the line.
I totally disagree with you. As already stated the CP document has not been signed off. I think what you will find in the next few days is completely the opposite. The company will threaten to take CP away and than the F/A's will be falling over themselves to vote yes.
The company will start to play hard and as CP is not part of the EBA as such they can take it away (or threaten to) at any time. You will find that if CP is at threat the YES vote will get across the line.
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GalleyHag & negotiator,
I think the Eastern group of cabin crew have a bit more intelligence than you give them credit for!
To suggest that CP may be removed just because we exercised our democratic right to vote "no" in our EBA is nothing short of scare mongering, and could influence the voting decision of some of the younger and less experienced crew.
Lets face the facts here, and you're a bit niave if you believe otherwise. Career Progression is the ONLY thing that Eastern crew have going for them. And if you don't believe me just ask how many crew have remained at Eastern after their number has come up. Yes, CP is the only reason we are here(qantas and eastern both know this) But is it worth throwing away what you believe in and rolling over and "taking it" for the chance that one day you will be at Qantas.
Most crew realise that they are now looking down the barrell of 5,6 possibly even more years at Eastern with the way things are at shorthaul and the stalling of CP. Does that mean that we are going to stick around and accept wages below the poverty line while Eastern makes millions for the large corporate red rat. I don't think so!
If it were not for career progression do you think the vast majority of Eastern cabin crew would remain? If they were to remove the CP document they'd be swamped with resignations, who can afford to survive on $450 a week forever. A large majority of crew are highly intelligent, skilled individuals and have come from well paid careers in the past. Without CP I'm sure many crew would leave.
And so it has come to pass that CP suits both parties well, a document ratified a long time ago betwwen Eastern, the old Australian Airlines and FAAA, which has now been granted as well to our Impulse collegues. It is not something that can simply be removed with the brush of a pen stroke!
Stand together Eastern crew for what you believe in, no longer to be bullied by the dangling carrot that we know as Career Progression. As was demonstrated in the General Managers "roadshow" we will not accept low wages and poor conditions any longer. We are not asking for alot, just to be recognised for our contribution with slightly more renumeration and better conditions(such as a 30 min break after 5hrs duty instead of 8hrs as it stands now!)
It is a time to stick together and stand proud of the magnificent job that is done by regional cabin crew every day on the noisy vibrating Dash 8's, and not let the threat of CP removal influence your beliefs and decisions.
Good luck to all
Basically in a nutshell Eastern crew:
Don't let rumours by ill-informed individuals influence something as important as your EBA decision. At no stage has the company or the FAAA indicated that the CP document is in ANY doubt.
I know that CP is important but when making your vote count base it on fact and not rumour, talk to an FAAA rep, they are only a phone call away.
I think the Eastern group of cabin crew have a bit more intelligence than you give them credit for!
To suggest that CP may be removed just because we exercised our democratic right to vote "no" in our EBA is nothing short of scare mongering, and could influence the voting decision of some of the younger and less experienced crew.
Lets face the facts here, and you're a bit niave if you believe otherwise. Career Progression is the ONLY thing that Eastern crew have going for them. And if you don't believe me just ask how many crew have remained at Eastern after their number has come up. Yes, CP is the only reason we are here(qantas and eastern both know this) But is it worth throwing away what you believe in and rolling over and "taking it" for the chance that one day you will be at Qantas.
Most crew realise that they are now looking down the barrell of 5,6 possibly even more years at Eastern with the way things are at shorthaul and the stalling of CP. Does that mean that we are going to stick around and accept wages below the poverty line while Eastern makes millions for the large corporate red rat. I don't think so!
If it were not for career progression do you think the vast majority of Eastern cabin crew would remain? If they were to remove the CP document they'd be swamped with resignations, who can afford to survive on $450 a week forever. A large majority of crew are highly intelligent, skilled individuals and have come from well paid careers in the past. Without CP I'm sure many crew would leave.
And so it has come to pass that CP suits both parties well, a document ratified a long time ago betwwen Eastern, the old Australian Airlines and FAAA, which has now been granted as well to our Impulse collegues. It is not something that can simply be removed with the brush of a pen stroke!
Stand together Eastern crew for what you believe in, no longer to be bullied by the dangling carrot that we know as Career Progression. As was demonstrated in the General Managers "roadshow" we will not accept low wages and poor conditions any longer. We are not asking for alot, just to be recognised for our contribution with slightly more renumeration and better conditions(such as a 30 min break after 5hrs duty instead of 8hrs as it stands now!)
It is a time to stick together and stand proud of the magnificent job that is done by regional cabin crew every day on the noisy vibrating Dash 8's, and not let the threat of CP removal influence your beliefs and decisions.
Good luck to all
Basically in a nutshell Eastern crew:
Don't let rumours by ill-informed individuals influence something as important as your EBA decision. At no stage has the company or the FAAA indicated that the CP document is in ANY doubt.
I know that CP is important but when making your vote count base it on fact and not rumour, talk to an FAAA rep, they are only a phone call away.
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negotiator,
It's funny how when QF/EAA is in trouble with EBA negotiations that someone named "negotiator" joins pprune to offer advice to EAA crew...Gee, you don't happen to work for QF industrial relations do you ?
QUOTE - Did it take 'one' EBA process for our collegues at Sunstate to reach a satisfactory salary, or was it done progressively over time?
Respose - No it didn't take one EBA for sunstate to get their satisfactory level but what about Impulse ???? The conditions of original impulse airlines crew to now QantasLink-airconnex has changed in just one EBA SIGNIFICANTLY.Why can't this happen for both Eastern and Sunstate ?
STICK TOGETHER EASTERN FLIGHT ATTENDANTS - DO NOT GET BULLIED - QF have been giggling all the way to the bank for many years over the crap conditions that Eastern,Sunstate and formerly southern crew have accepted only because of the dream that the pay will be for a short period - well, TIMES THEY ARE A CHANGING-this is clearly evident through the recruitment hold and overstaffing in shorthaul meaning long long wait times for regional crew to progress, if we are going to stay working on dash 8's for 5 years then give us better conditions and pay..Dash 8 Flight attendants work bloody hard - twice as hard as QF mainline CSM's I might add and for 1/3 of the pay . It's about time recognition for the efforts of these crew is rewarded through better working conditions and pay increases.Virgin Blue just got a 14% pay rise for crew over a few years and yet they are half the size of QF with less profits.
EAA crew your other Qantaslink colleagues over Oz support you - you are not alone.
STICK TOGETHER!
It's funny how when QF/EAA is in trouble with EBA negotiations that someone named "negotiator" joins pprune to offer advice to EAA crew...Gee, you don't happen to work for QF industrial relations do you ?
QUOTE - Did it take 'one' EBA process for our collegues at Sunstate to reach a satisfactory salary, or was it done progressively over time?
Respose - No it didn't take one EBA for sunstate to get their satisfactory level but what about Impulse ???? The conditions of original impulse airlines crew to now QantasLink-airconnex has changed in just one EBA SIGNIFICANTLY.Why can't this happen for both Eastern and Sunstate ?
STICK TOGETHER EASTERN FLIGHT ATTENDANTS - DO NOT GET BULLIED - QF have been giggling all the way to the bank for many years over the crap conditions that Eastern,Sunstate and formerly southern crew have accepted only because of the dream that the pay will be for a short period - well, TIMES THEY ARE A CHANGING-this is clearly evident through the recruitment hold and overstaffing in shorthaul meaning long long wait times for regional crew to progress, if we are going to stay working on dash 8's for 5 years then give us better conditions and pay..Dash 8 Flight attendants work bloody hard - twice as hard as QF mainline CSM's I might add and for 1/3 of the pay . It's about time recognition for the efforts of these crew is rewarded through better working conditions and pay increases.Virgin Blue just got a 14% pay rise for crew over a few years and yet they are half the size of QF with less profits.
EAA crew your other Qantaslink colleagues over Oz support you - you are not alone.
STICK TOGETHER!
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QF Skywalker,
Let me first start by thanking you for your support, It's great to see that the 120+ FA's at Eastern are not forgotton about. Sure it may not be as madia grabbing as longhaul walking out, but we are just as important!
negotiator,
To answer a few of your questions:
i) If you were "in the know" as you say you are, you would be aware that we are not asking for more than 3% x 3yrs. Each FA would immediately move up one pay increment meaning effectively a 12% increase over 3 yrs. This is the same deal the pilot group received and whilst we will get more than the 9% offered(ie 12%), on paper the deal still remains at 9%. A win/win for both parties I'm sure you would agree!
ii) As to your next question "Is the proposed agreement better than we have?" By the way you have phrased this question in the first person it would have us believe that you are an Eastern FA. This I find most interesting! Yes it is better, only slightly, even I can see this, however it still does not address areas of concern such as adequate rest breaks, overtime and a roster of up to 152hrs in a 28 day period!
iii) I'm sure it did take longer than one EBA for Sunstate crew to reach a satisfactory salary (if you want to call their salary satisfactory). However we both do the same job and fly the same aircraft. Even after our 3 x 3 wage rise, Eastern crew are still not at an equal pay scale to our Sunstate collegues!
iv) "Is it a good time for industrial action?" What a ridiculous question. No time is a good time for industrial action, it is the last thing the majority of us want. However the company has been given plenty of opportunities and either keep cancelling meetings with the FAAA, or come to the table time after time with no change at all. How far do they want to push it?
v) "Would I support my collegues not prepared to take industrial action?" As I, QF Skywalker, and FAAA reps have stated, the only way to achieve results is to STICK TOGETHER. United we stand divided we fall. As for crew who are on "probation" as you put it, (I'm presuming the ones you mean who have not had their 3 month check) I can only reassure them that in an EBA negotiating period we are legally protected by industrial relations laws to take actions such as stop work meetings. The only thing that crew have to fear is scare mongering activities by people with hidden agendas!
And finally, yes, Rome was not built in a day. But if we don't lay some strong foundations now we'll have nothing to build the next EBA on in three years times, and once again we'll be even further behind the eight ball!
Keep smiling Eastern crew, you are a credit to your profession. You only have to look at the notice board to see all the thankyou letters from happy customers. That you go out day after day and do such a great job is just amazing considering what the company think we are worth. Hold your heads proud and don't let standards slip. The aircraft are ****, the catering is below par, it's US that make the difference.
Well done and stick together.
Let me first start by thanking you for your support, It's great to see that the 120+ FA's at Eastern are not forgotton about. Sure it may not be as madia grabbing as longhaul walking out, but we are just as important!
negotiator,
To answer a few of your questions:
i) If you were "in the know" as you say you are, you would be aware that we are not asking for more than 3% x 3yrs. Each FA would immediately move up one pay increment meaning effectively a 12% increase over 3 yrs. This is the same deal the pilot group received and whilst we will get more than the 9% offered(ie 12%), on paper the deal still remains at 9%. A win/win for both parties I'm sure you would agree!
ii) As to your next question "Is the proposed agreement better than we have?" By the way you have phrased this question in the first person it would have us believe that you are an Eastern FA. This I find most interesting! Yes it is better, only slightly, even I can see this, however it still does not address areas of concern such as adequate rest breaks, overtime and a roster of up to 152hrs in a 28 day period!
iii) I'm sure it did take longer than one EBA for Sunstate crew to reach a satisfactory salary (if you want to call their salary satisfactory). However we both do the same job and fly the same aircraft. Even after our 3 x 3 wage rise, Eastern crew are still not at an equal pay scale to our Sunstate collegues!
iv) "Is it a good time for industrial action?" What a ridiculous question. No time is a good time for industrial action, it is the last thing the majority of us want. However the company has been given plenty of opportunities and either keep cancelling meetings with the FAAA, or come to the table time after time with no change at all. How far do they want to push it?
v) "Would I support my collegues not prepared to take industrial action?" As I, QF Skywalker, and FAAA reps have stated, the only way to achieve results is to STICK TOGETHER. United we stand divided we fall. As for crew who are on "probation" as you put it, (I'm presuming the ones you mean who have not had their 3 month check) I can only reassure them that in an EBA negotiating period we are legally protected by industrial relations laws to take actions such as stop work meetings. The only thing that crew have to fear is scare mongering activities by people with hidden agendas!
And finally, yes, Rome was not built in a day. But if we don't lay some strong foundations now we'll have nothing to build the next EBA on in three years times, and once again we'll be even further behind the eight ball!
Keep smiling Eastern crew, you are a credit to your profession. You only have to look at the notice board to see all the thankyou letters from happy customers. That you go out day after day and do such a great job is just amazing considering what the company think we are worth. Hold your heads proud and don't let standards slip. The aircraft are ****, the catering is below par, it's US that make the difference.
Well done and stick together.
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Trolley_Guy
Im not going to get into a long winded debate on this issue but ask yourself why havent Qantas and Eastern signed off on the amended CP document with the increased numbers? Thats right it hasnt been signed off and the 10 per six month cycle (depending on recruitment) is VERY much at threat you are kidding yourself to think otherwise. Yes you received the letter from the company confirming the increase but the actual document has not been signed and can be taken away with the stroke of a pen.
Maybe CP as such is not at threat but the increased numbers certainly is and it is a sure bet that this will be dangled in your face in the next few days.
Let me say that even if QF/EAA wanted to give you more they wont due to the impact this will have on other divisions within the company.
Good luck I hope you get what you want but I wouldnt count on the support of a large majority of the top 50-60 if the CP numbers are at threat considering that if industrial action is taken it wont change the offer already on the table.
Im not going to get into a long winded debate on this issue but ask yourself why havent Qantas and Eastern signed off on the amended CP document with the increased numbers? Thats right it hasnt been signed off and the 10 per six month cycle (depending on recruitment) is VERY much at threat you are kidding yourself to think otherwise. Yes you received the letter from the company confirming the increase but the actual document has not been signed and can be taken away with the stroke of a pen.
Maybe CP as such is not at threat but the increased numbers certainly is and it is a sure bet that this will be dangled in your face in the next few days.
Let me say that even if QF/EAA wanted to give you more they wont due to the impact this will have on other divisions within the company.
Good luck I hope you get what you want but I wouldnt count on the support of a large majority of the top 50-60 if the CP numbers are at threat considering that if industrial action is taken it wont change the offer already on the table.
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The proposed agreement is most certainly better than the agreement currently in place for Eastern cabin crew. That is blatantly clear.
Is it good enough? Well, this remains to be seen.. but judging by crew comments it appears the answer to that is no.
SG
Is it good enough? Well, this remains to be seen.. but judging by crew comments it appears the answer to that is no.
SG
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GalleyHag,
I too do not want to get into a debate about CP, personally I'm more interested in our EBA situation, but unfortunately what you have to say has a certain amount of truth.
For far too long Eastern crew have been all consumed with CP at the expense of wages and conditions. In days gone by the top half (50-60 as you say) have sold out those at the bottom of the list, with the "I don't give a **** I'll be outa here soon" mentality. Well wake up and smell the roses people, you've still got a few years to go yet. I put my faith in the "seniors" that I have spoken to that this situation will not happen as they know what it's like to be at the bottom.
At the end of the day lets not argue amongst ourselves, it gets us nowhere and professionally makes us look like idiots. All we are seeking is a fair deal for all, and that means for those at the "top" as well as the "bottom" of the list. And for those who are at the "top", remember how it felt sitting at the "bottom" and don't sell out a fellow mate. Remember you are voting for the EBA which is your wages and conditions not the CP document.
Thankyou and goodnight.
I too do not want to get into a debate about CP, personally I'm more interested in our EBA situation, but unfortunately what you have to say has a certain amount of truth.
For far too long Eastern crew have been all consumed with CP at the expense of wages and conditions. In days gone by the top half (50-60 as you say) have sold out those at the bottom of the list, with the "I don't give a **** I'll be outa here soon" mentality. Well wake up and smell the roses people, you've still got a few years to go yet. I put my faith in the "seniors" that I have spoken to that this situation will not happen as they know what it's like to be at the bottom.
At the end of the day lets not argue amongst ourselves, it gets us nowhere and professionally makes us look like idiots. All we are seeking is a fair deal for all, and that means for those at the "top" as well as the "bottom" of the list. And for those who are at the "top", remember how it felt sitting at the "bottom" and don't sell out a fellow mate. Remember you are voting for the EBA which is your wages and conditions not the CP document.
Thankyou and goodnight.
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On the topic of Career Progression.....
Is the new Perth Domestic Base included when it comes to a transfer option?
Are we going to see this as another option to stimulate an EBA "Yes" vote maybe?
Is the new Perth Domestic Base included when it comes to a transfer option?
Are we going to see this as another option to stimulate an EBA "Yes" vote maybe?
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as far as i am aware sunstate and eastern are both owed their individual progression numbers by Qantas from the PER base recruitment. However, I believe QF did not want to progress these staff on to the PER base as SH was already overstaffed and with the way things are looking they didn't want to progress these staff into a new position only to have it taken away from them as their is limited flying happening.
The next progession ( whenever it happens...2006 perhaps ?
) will see a large number from both sunstate and eastern move on.But the question is when.
The next progession ( whenever it happens...2006 perhaps ?
) will see a large number from both sunstate and eastern move on.But the question is when.
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Career Progression BLAH BLAH
Will CP put more food on your tables?!? Will CP give you more rest breaks or longer min rest? Will CP give you a better lifestyle?! Don't let the CP 'carrot' dangling in front of you affect your decisions.
Stuff it! Don't let QF and EAA treat you as second class citizens anymore!
Make sure you vote 'YES' only when you are happy with what is being offered! Career Progression or not!
Every EAA guy and gal I have met is a credit to EAA, QF and their profession! Do not undersell yourselves!
(On another note the new conditions for Link and Long Haul FAs transferring to Short Haul are second rate to what others are afforded. It isn't as good a deal any more.)
Will CP put more food on your tables?!? Will CP give you more rest breaks or longer min rest? Will CP give you a better lifestyle?! Don't let the CP 'carrot' dangling in front of you affect your decisions.
Stuff it! Don't let QF and EAA treat you as second class citizens anymore!
Make sure you vote 'YES' only when you are happy with what is being offered! Career Progression or not!
Every EAA guy and gal I have met is a credit to EAA, QF and their profession! Do not undersell yourselves!
(On another note the new conditions for Link and Long Haul FAs transferring to Short Haul are second rate to what others are afforded. It isn't as good a deal any more.)
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And on that note...
You're right - CP isn't what it used to be...especially given the current climate.
Let's examine the most discussed scenario here: What if QF were to withdraw CP from Eastern and Sunnies?
With that, there would be mass resignations - no joking. Let's break it down...
a) EAA kids earn about $450 per week - with SYD living expenses this is barely liveable. Given their workload, they deserve much better - they do everything by themselves with little or no financial or rewards for doing a great job.
152 hours in 28 day period - I'm agog at this number, and have been since I saw it in the EAA EBA a while ago. Terrible, terrible number of hours to do in any monthly roster...it's one thing to ELECT to work this number voluntarily for overtime, but to be rostered to this number...ludicrous and dangerous in my view!
b) CP is the ONLY thing that keeps people at EAA and Sunnies. Period. Without CP, where is the incentive for you to work for the regionals (and don't say 'to fly'). Who in their right mind (however desperate) would fly for $25000 out of SYD, with their only 'benefit' being staff travel (when, at that wage, you can't afford the tickets or holiday in the first place!). The Impulse kids did it for a while - but the novelty wore off very quickly for most of them. You cannot survive in SYD on $450 a week (unless you live at the parents for free).
Those that did elect to stay would do so begrudgingly - and who wants a demotivated, bitter and over it set of FA's (mainline notwithstanding! - I'm terrible, only joking!)
EAA and Sunnies have prided themselves FOR YEARS on the young, fresh and motivated set of FA's they employ. This is reflected in their success as individual subsidiaries of QF - if they weren't up to scratch, why then is each subsidiary receiving millions to spend on new Dash 8 aircraft deliveries (in a time when very few airlines are getting new aircraft)??
Strive for a BRILLIANT EBA guys! You deserve it, and don't let the threat of CP deter you! You could be at Eastern/Sunnies for years - don't cut your nose to spite your face as the saying goes! The days of waiting 2 years then going across are gone for now...plan for the future so that you're protected!
Remember - CP is a separate Agreement to your EBA. Never the twain shall meet!
My thoughts and wishes to all you EAA guys - QF Skywalker et al - you all deserve better conditions to recognise your tremendous efforts and input in making QFLink a remarkable operation. Your friends at your sister airlines are watching with great interest and are behind you all the way!
PS. For those who don't know what ditzy is referring to, all transferees to Short Haul on CP are provided the same conditions and pay scales as every other Short Haul FA with the exception of Band Payments, which for new entrants is a new penalty based system instead of Band Payments.
You're right - CP isn't what it used to be...especially given the current climate.
Let's examine the most discussed scenario here: What if QF were to withdraw CP from Eastern and Sunnies?
With that, there would be mass resignations - no joking. Let's break it down...
a) EAA kids earn about $450 per week - with SYD living expenses this is barely liveable. Given their workload, they deserve much better - they do everything by themselves with little or no financial or rewards for doing a great job.
152 hours in 28 day period - I'm agog at this number, and have been since I saw it in the EAA EBA a while ago. Terrible, terrible number of hours to do in any monthly roster...it's one thing to ELECT to work this number voluntarily for overtime, but to be rostered to this number...ludicrous and dangerous in my view!
b) CP is the ONLY thing that keeps people at EAA and Sunnies. Period. Without CP, where is the incentive for you to work for the regionals (and don't say 'to fly'). Who in their right mind (however desperate) would fly for $25000 out of SYD, with their only 'benefit' being staff travel (when, at that wage, you can't afford the tickets or holiday in the first place!). The Impulse kids did it for a while - but the novelty wore off very quickly for most of them. You cannot survive in SYD on $450 a week (unless you live at the parents for free).
Those that did elect to stay would do so begrudgingly - and who wants a demotivated, bitter and over it set of FA's (mainline notwithstanding! - I'm terrible, only joking!)
EAA and Sunnies have prided themselves FOR YEARS on the young, fresh and motivated set of FA's they employ. This is reflected in their success as individual subsidiaries of QF - if they weren't up to scratch, why then is each subsidiary receiving millions to spend on new Dash 8 aircraft deliveries (in a time when very few airlines are getting new aircraft)??
Strive for a BRILLIANT EBA guys! You deserve it, and don't let the threat of CP deter you! You could be at Eastern/Sunnies for years - don't cut your nose to spite your face as the saying goes! The days of waiting 2 years then going across are gone for now...plan for the future so that you're protected!
Remember - CP is a separate Agreement to your EBA. Never the twain shall meet!
My thoughts and wishes to all you EAA guys - QF Skywalker et al - you all deserve better conditions to recognise your tremendous efforts and input in making QFLink a remarkable operation. Your friends at your sister airlines are watching with great interest and are behind you all the way!
PS. For those who don't know what ditzy is referring to, all transferees to Short Haul on CP are provided the same conditions and pay scales as every other Short Haul FA with the exception of Band Payments, which for new entrants is a new penalty based system instead of Band Payments.
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Hi everyone....
Ive got one word to say to you.... EBA! Go for it...all the way.
I worked my butt of for years on the Dash, in the days when only 4 FAs progressed at a time and only 32 crew , and the conditions were worse...yes its true. We had a very good rep (now also in mainline) who, together with a unified team of crew achieved a better EBA than the one we had, and guess what...IT WASNT EASY. Carrots were dangled but we fought hard, and won.
You now have the opportunity, as a team, to improve your conditions, further and much better than what they currently are. It can only get better, and there is light at the end of the tunnel.
Good luck guys and girls
Ive got one word to say to you.... EBA! Go for it...all the way.
I worked my butt of for years on the Dash, in the days when only 4 FAs progressed at a time and only 32 crew , and the conditions were worse...yes its true. We had a very good rep (now also in mainline) who, together with a unified team of crew achieved a better EBA than the one we had, and guess what...IT WASNT EASY. Carrots were dangled but we fought hard, and won.
You now have the opportunity, as a team, to improve your conditions, further and much better than what they currently are. It can only get better, and there is light at the end of the tunnel.
Good luck guys and girls
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Thanks for all the support we have been receiving, it's great to know that the small group of EAA crew have not been forgotten about by our mainline colleagues, and other friends out there.
It truly has been a difficult time for all involved in the EBA however as we all suspected we are now being blackmailed into signing the document, by you guessed it - threatening removal of career progression.
We thought (foolishly enough) that the CP document had been negotiaited in good faith, and as they kept telling us was seperate to the EBA, we have been waiting on the signing off of the agreed 10 every six months and now we know why they have been stalling! In a nutshell if the EBA is not voted up then CP drops back to 4 every six months.
QF and EAA have even added a sweetener as an additional 8(on top of the 10) will progress next time to account for the perth base recruitment. How kind of them considering thats what we are OWED anyway! Of course they won't go either if the EBA is voted down.
So where do we go to from here?
You only have to do the math to realise with 120+ crew and CP of 4 every six months its gonna take a bloody long time for anyone to move to Qantas. If we dig in for a fight (and vote it down) how much can we really improve our wages and conditions? Another measley 3%?
It's a difficult decision for some, however I think I know how the majority of the rank and file will vote, no surprises there.
It's crunch time and I fear QF and EAA have the bigger teeth!
It truly has been a difficult time for all involved in the EBA however as we all suspected we are now being blackmailed into signing the document, by you guessed it - threatening removal of career progression.
We thought (foolishly enough) that the CP document had been negotiaited in good faith, and as they kept telling us was seperate to the EBA, we have been waiting on the signing off of the agreed 10 every six months and now we know why they have been stalling! In a nutshell if the EBA is not voted up then CP drops back to 4 every six months.
QF and EAA have even added a sweetener as an additional 8(on top of the 10) will progress next time to account for the perth base recruitment. How kind of them considering thats what we are OWED anyway! Of course they won't go either if the EBA is voted down.So where do we go to from here?
You only have to do the math to realise with 120+ crew and CP of 4 every six months its gonna take a bloody long time for anyone to move to Qantas. If we dig in for a fight (and vote it down) how much can we really improve our wages and conditions? Another measley 3%?
It's a difficult decision for some, however I think I know how the majority of the rank and file will vote, no surprises there.
It's crunch time and I fear QF and EAA have the bigger teeth!
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I agree EAA crew should be paid more and have better conditions but just how would you like them to do?
Everyone is saying stick together and fight etc etc but the fact remains QF have not changed the original agreement and have indicated to them through the FAAA that they will not get anything further in the current climate and now EAA/QF have said their increase CP numbers are at risk.
Furthermore for them to take industrial action it has to be endorsed by the FAAA and they have indicated they will not support industrial action of EAA crew in the current climate. Therefore leaving the EAA crew out in the cold and at risk of being sacked as under industrial law the union must endorse the action for them to be protected even during a bargaining period etc etc its not just a matter of saying lets strike or have a stop work meeting it doesnt work like that.
So where does that leave them? My comments are not having a go at anyone I'm just interested to know what more can possible be done it appears they have now been backed into a corner. If the EBA is voted down they loose the CP numbers and remain on the same money as they wont get another cent from QF if the EBA is voted up they remain on the same money and at least at some point have an opportunity to move onto QF.
When I say the same money I mean the increase from the current offer.
Everyone is saying stick together and fight etc etc but the fact remains QF have not changed the original agreement and have indicated to them through the FAAA that they will not get anything further in the current climate and now EAA/QF have said their increase CP numbers are at risk.
Furthermore for them to take industrial action it has to be endorsed by the FAAA and they have indicated they will not support industrial action of EAA crew in the current climate. Therefore leaving the EAA crew out in the cold and at risk of being sacked as under industrial law the union must endorse the action for them to be protected even during a bargaining period etc etc its not just a matter of saying lets strike or have a stop work meeting it doesnt work like that.
So where does that leave them? My comments are not having a go at anyone I'm just interested to know what more can possible be done it appears they have now been backed into a corner. If the EBA is voted down they loose the CP numbers and remain on the same money as they wont get another cent from QF if the EBA is voted up they remain on the same money and at least at some point have an opportunity to move onto QF.
When I say the same money I mean the increase from the current offer.