Qantas Short List Update
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Qantas Short List Update
I recieved this from my Qantas spy this afternoon. Hope this may help some of you.
From HR
Answered: 27 March 2003
Dear xxxxxx xxxxx and the HR team,
I would like to ask a question regarding your short listed Cabin Crew applicants that are on wait lists. Can you please advise, why the wait lists have a time frame? I am curious to know why applicants are only given 6 or 12 months. After the hard work that your team do in finding these people, wouldn't it make sense to keep them on your books untill a position is available whether it is in 6 months of 6 years? Maybe after applicants have been on hold for a certain ammount of time, they could have a one on one meeting with your team, just to ensure that they still have all the skills that you are looking for.
Please answer my question, as I am sure that alot of people would like to know why this is the case.
Thankyou xxxxxx.
Answer: Thank you for your comments - and also for your idea - which I think has some merit.
As you are probably aware, short-lists are established so that the business is in the position to respond with agility to meet market needs with increased flying hours. The timeframe required to complete a recruitment campaign is approximately 4 months, and this timeframe is simply too long to meet business imperatives, or indeed candidate needs, by providing 1 months notice of an offer of a role with Qantas.
An example of this is the recruitment campaign that we started Nov 2002 for Feb 2003 schools - then of course - the global environment changed dramatically during that time, so now we are in a position where we have a large number of candidates in a short-list situation - and no immediate prospects of offering a role.
Short lists are established when there is a genuine forecast demand. Clearly, we are not in a current environment where that forecast demand is strong - however - to take your point - (although 6 years is definitely inappropriate !) I think that rather than any predetermined time on a short-list, a balanced assessment of whether an offer is likely within 6 months, 12 months or longer is something certainly worth considering, particularly if combined with another meeting with the candidates. Thank you for taking the time to write.
Regards
xxxxxx xxxxxx
Manager Recruitment Customer Service
From HR
Answered: 27 March 2003
Dear xxxxxx xxxxx and the HR team,
I would like to ask a question regarding your short listed Cabin Crew applicants that are on wait lists. Can you please advise, why the wait lists have a time frame? I am curious to know why applicants are only given 6 or 12 months. After the hard work that your team do in finding these people, wouldn't it make sense to keep them on your books untill a position is available whether it is in 6 months of 6 years? Maybe after applicants have been on hold for a certain ammount of time, they could have a one on one meeting with your team, just to ensure that they still have all the skills that you are looking for.
Please answer my question, as I am sure that alot of people would like to know why this is the case.
Thankyou xxxxxx.
Answer: Thank you for your comments - and also for your idea - which I think has some merit.
As you are probably aware, short-lists are established so that the business is in the position to respond with agility to meet market needs with increased flying hours. The timeframe required to complete a recruitment campaign is approximately 4 months, and this timeframe is simply too long to meet business imperatives, or indeed candidate needs, by providing 1 months notice of an offer of a role with Qantas.
An example of this is the recruitment campaign that we started Nov 2002 for Feb 2003 schools - then of course - the global environment changed dramatically during that time, so now we are in a position where we have a large number of candidates in a short-list situation - and no immediate prospects of offering a role.
Short lists are established when there is a genuine forecast demand. Clearly, we are not in a current environment where that forecast demand is strong - however - to take your point - (although 6 years is definitely inappropriate !) I think that rather than any predetermined time on a short-list, a balanced assessment of whether an offer is likely within 6 months, 12 months or longer is something certainly worth considering, particularly if combined with another meeting with the candidates. Thank you for taking the time to write.
Regards
xxxxxx xxxxxx
Manager Recruitment Customer Service
Last edited by Lozza2002; 28th Mar 2003 at 16:23.
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I appreciate that a lot of people are very interested to know what is happening with the short list, however I have heard through reliable sources that cabin services is not happy about confidential information lifted from their site appearing on here.
This does not bother me at all and Im sure it wouldnt bother the great majority of crew, however please understand that the website this information is lifted from is important for us and I for one do not want to see it taken off line or parts of it taken off line.
Galley Gossip is really the only way questions can be asked and answered without fear or recrimination.
Its up to you guys if you choose to continue to post information from the site but be aware that this could effect us in the future and the flow of information from Qantas.
This does not bother me at all and Im sure it wouldnt bother the great majority of crew, however please understand that the website this information is lifted from is important for us and I for one do not want to see it taken off line or parts of it taken off line.
Galley Gossip is really the only way questions can be asked and answered without fear or recrimination.
Its up to you guys if you choose to continue to post information from the site but be aware that this could effect us in the future and the flow of information from Qantas.
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Adding Value...
Galley Hag
I think you make a very valid point - internal company communication is best kept internal, both for commercial reasons and security.
But why are we seeking information and seemingly putting pressure on those with access to internal communication?
If you are in a position to influence those who are responsible for HR communication at QF then perhaps it can be suggested to them that maintaining a line of communication with Shortlisters post Stage 5 is valuable.
At the moment my only source of communication from QF on the status of my Shortlisting is this forum - via people like Lozza, who in an act of simple goodwill do on their own initiative what QF HR should be doing - communicating with their market. Shortlisters are clients and should be communicated with as such. Nobody expects a daily update, and I for one am under no illusion that QF owes me a job (even after spending $1500+ on airfares, hotac, medical etc., it would be nice to expect it but I don't). But I do beleive that having been Shortlisted means I am a stakeholder in the future of Qantas until such time as I am no longer Shorlisted.
Every Shortlister has a different reason for accepting or declining a training offer when they get one yet I can see why people drift away to other industries before QF has a chance to offer them training. QF becomes like a lost lover who leaves us hanging but never calls
It must be frustrating for QF CC HR to expense a vast recruitment budget then lose successful applicants over time. I'm sure that trying to balance manpower planning is an immense task especially in this industry, let alone during this time.
The least QF CC recruitment could do though is to acknowledge the need to maintain contact with customers. An infrequent message saying what the current factors influencing CC recruitment are and when there is likely to be movement from the Shortlist, or when Shortlisters may expect an update will suffice. If the company doesn't know when there will be movement - then say as much.
At the moment my Shortlist email notification gives me a great sense of personal pride, I was good enough for QF and making it to the Shortlist is my 'certificate' of as much. I cannot tell you how humbled I was to be Shorlisted, I am proud of Qantas, I am proud to be Australian. But, the email is also a source of uncertainty - will I be deleted from the QF shortlist after 6 months if I'm not called up? I hope not, but how do I know otherwise in the interim??
From my perspective, QF CC recruitment made a huge improvement when they moved their communication and CV filtering to staffcv, simply because it introduced some quality and humanity to the process. No more nasty "would you follow me please" to the back door on assessment days. Being emailed within 48 hours at each step of the process was just great.
I don't expect to be spoon fed but I do want QF to know that I am still alive, and that I'm still interested.
Email is a technology that is available, its inexpensive, it’s instant - so use it. Let Shortlisters know what's going on for their peace of mind and life planning, and for QF HR's return on recruitment investment.
I think you make a very valid point - internal company communication is best kept internal, both for commercial reasons and security.
But why are we seeking information and seemingly putting pressure on those with access to internal communication?
If you are in a position to influence those who are responsible for HR communication at QF then perhaps it can be suggested to them that maintaining a line of communication with Shortlisters post Stage 5 is valuable.
At the moment my only source of communication from QF on the status of my Shortlisting is this forum - via people like Lozza, who in an act of simple goodwill do on their own initiative what QF HR should be doing - communicating with their market. Shortlisters are clients and should be communicated with as such. Nobody expects a daily update, and I for one am under no illusion that QF owes me a job (even after spending $1500+ on airfares, hotac, medical etc., it would be nice to expect it but I don't). But I do beleive that having been Shortlisted means I am a stakeholder in the future of Qantas until such time as I am no longer Shorlisted.
Every Shortlister has a different reason for accepting or declining a training offer when they get one yet I can see why people drift away to other industries before QF has a chance to offer them training. QF becomes like a lost lover who leaves us hanging but never calls
It must be frustrating for QF CC HR to expense a vast recruitment budget then lose successful applicants over time. I'm sure that trying to balance manpower planning is an immense task especially in this industry, let alone during this time.
The least QF CC recruitment could do though is to acknowledge the need to maintain contact with customers. An infrequent message saying what the current factors influencing CC recruitment are and when there is likely to be movement from the Shortlist, or when Shortlisters may expect an update will suffice. If the company doesn't know when there will be movement - then say as much.
At the moment my Shortlist email notification gives me a great sense of personal pride, I was good enough for QF and making it to the Shortlist is my 'certificate' of as much. I cannot tell you how humbled I was to be Shorlisted, I am proud of Qantas, I am proud to be Australian. But, the email is also a source of uncertainty - will I be deleted from the QF shortlist after 6 months if I'm not called up? I hope not, but how do I know otherwise in the interim??
From my perspective, QF CC recruitment made a huge improvement when they moved their communication and CV filtering to staffcv, simply because it introduced some quality and humanity to the process. No more nasty "would you follow me please" to the back door on assessment days. Being emailed within 48 hours at each step of the process was just great.
I don't expect to be spoon fed but I do want QF to know that I am still alive, and that I'm still interested.
Email is a technology that is available, its inexpensive, it’s instant - so use it. Let Shortlisters know what's going on for their peace of mind and life planning, and for QF HR's return on recruitment investment.
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I can't believe that the people that have applied to both
Qantas & Australian Airlines don't read the newspapers,
if you had, you would have read that Geoff Dixon last Friday
said in the Qantas announcement, that they now have a
recruitment freeze.
As for Australian Airlines who fly to Japan (down 30%) and
Taipai, Hong-kong, Singapore (Which have all come down
with the killer virus SARS). Believe me that Qantas is in trouble,
your only hope in the next 3 months is if Geoff Dixon decides to clean up the present incumbants called F/As with their claims
for extra $$$$ when the company is in trouble.
Qantas & Australian Airlines don't read the newspapers,
if you had, you would have read that Geoff Dixon last Friday
said in the Qantas announcement, that they now have a
recruitment freeze.
As for Australian Airlines who fly to Japan (down 30%) and
Taipai, Hong-kong, Singapore (Which have all come down
with the killer virus SARS). Believe me that Qantas is in trouble,
your only hope in the next 3 months is if Geoff Dixon decides to clean up the present incumbants called F/As with their claims
for extra $$$$ when the company is in trouble.
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I don't know who you are go-dj, presumeably I would expect a Virgin Blue FA...but here are the facts.
Yes there is a recruitment freeze on - for no other reason than the Gulf War. Qantas was not in trouble prior to this period, and certainly isn't at the moment given the massive profits they have been able to amass resulting from a very fortunate (for Qantas) turn of events such as the AN collapse. Yes, Qantas have invested heavily in new aircraft for the future, however, the bulk of the deliveries involve 2005-6. One hopes the war will be over by then??!
As for present incumbants-F/A's making claims for extra $$$$, I suggest you work long haul before making said comments. I do not - nor have I ever worked - in long haul, but I do know that there have been a few sacrifices made by long haul crew for which there has not been a great deal of compensation. Whether or not you feel they are justified is irrelevant - the point is, as a workforce they feel strongly enough to act and support their claim. At this point in the troubled world we live in, that may seem unfair or even silly to you. However, this is your opinion and you're entitled to it.
Working conditions exist, and in some cases outlast, the wars we encounter. Remember, with the introduction of the Workplace Relations Act 1996, long haul crew lost a number of allowances under the 'twenty allowable matters' ruling.
Secondly, if Australian are in such trouble, why then are they recruiting additional crew in a time when supposedly we are all (in particular Qantas) in trouble? Eastern, Impulse and Sunstate are all recruiting right now...and they're subsidiary airlines. Yes, Australian does serve ports where SARS is occurring right now - but then again, isn't Canada a SARS country as well? It's not simply restricted to Asia, and one would think that if it did manage to affect Qantas, it would also affect it's neighbourhood competitors also - competitors such as Cathay, Malaysian, Thai, Singapore, etc.
Yeah - Qantas is in trouble...and $500m profit is the proof then???! They didn't achieve this without significant sacrifices and hard work input to the company from the very crew who fly for Qantas. This, combined with very cost controlling and shrewd management, have helped Qantas lead the pack in terms of world airline management.
Yes there is a recruitment freeze on - for no other reason than the Gulf War. Qantas was not in trouble prior to this period, and certainly isn't at the moment given the massive profits they have been able to amass resulting from a very fortunate (for Qantas) turn of events such as the AN collapse. Yes, Qantas have invested heavily in new aircraft for the future, however, the bulk of the deliveries involve 2005-6. One hopes the war will be over by then??!
As for present incumbants-F/A's making claims for extra $$$$, I suggest you work long haul before making said comments. I do not - nor have I ever worked - in long haul, but I do know that there have been a few sacrifices made by long haul crew for which there has not been a great deal of compensation. Whether or not you feel they are justified is irrelevant - the point is, as a workforce they feel strongly enough to act and support their claim. At this point in the troubled world we live in, that may seem unfair or even silly to you. However, this is your opinion and you're entitled to it.
Working conditions exist, and in some cases outlast, the wars we encounter. Remember, with the introduction of the Workplace Relations Act 1996, long haul crew lost a number of allowances under the 'twenty allowable matters' ruling.
Secondly, if Australian are in such trouble, why then are they recruiting additional crew in a time when supposedly we are all (in particular Qantas) in trouble? Eastern, Impulse and Sunstate are all recruiting right now...and they're subsidiary airlines. Yes, Australian does serve ports where SARS is occurring right now - but then again, isn't Canada a SARS country as well? It's not simply restricted to Asia, and one would think that if it did manage to affect Qantas, it would also affect it's neighbourhood competitors also - competitors such as Cathay, Malaysian, Thai, Singapore, etc.
Yeah - Qantas is in trouble...and $500m profit is the proof then???! They didn't achieve this without significant sacrifices and hard work input to the company from the very crew who fly for Qantas. This, combined with very cost controlling and shrewd management, have helped Qantas lead the pack in terms of world airline management.
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go_dj,
Perhaps your should buy your gossip from a "premium-full service" newspaper rather than a "no frills" one before claiming that QF is in trouble.
Our drop in capacity on certain international routes will only continue to help the proft making of QF by deploying the wide body aircraft on domestic routes therefore increasing our domestic market which we know QF has made substantial profits on in recent times.The Qantas regional network-QFLINK is far from trouble either-you'll find more detailed information in the annual report if you care to look-Eastern/Impulse and Sunstate are nice little money earners.
The L/H cabin crew will be no different to your virgin crew who in time will no doubt be claiming more money for the expansion of the virgin network to international operations - correct me if I am wrong but isn't your new EBA being negotiated right now with a pay increase of 13% ? QF crew are only claiming 10% !
Hope this clears up any ill informed gossip you have heard.
Regards
CB
Perhaps your should buy your gossip from a "premium-full service" newspaper rather than a "no frills" one before claiming that QF is in trouble.
Our drop in capacity on certain international routes will only continue to help the proft making of QF by deploying the wide body aircraft on domestic routes therefore increasing our domestic market which we know QF has made substantial profits on in recent times.The Qantas regional network-QFLINK is far from trouble either-you'll find more detailed information in the annual report if you care to look-Eastern/Impulse and Sunstate are nice little money earners.
The L/H cabin crew will be no different to your virgin crew who in time will no doubt be claiming more money for the expansion of the virgin network to international operations - correct me if I am wrong but isn't your new EBA being negotiated right now with a pay increase of 13% ? QF crew are only claiming 10% !
Hope this clears up any ill informed gossip you have heard.
Regards
CB
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Seatback 2...What is it you dont understand about Geoff Dixon's announcement of a recruitment freeze? A "freeze" does not mean financial trouble, what it means is no recruitment.
Yellow rocket you are not a stakeholder in the future of Qantas..you are on a shortlist along with many others. Its rediculous at this stage to overestimate your importance to the company.
Yellow rocket you are not a stakeholder in the future of Qantas..you are on a shortlist along with many others. Its rediculous at this stage to overestimate your importance to the company.
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In reply to Heartbreaker's and go_dj's comments...
I have never commented on other's posts.....but this time I am afraid I feel that I need to....
Perhaps Heartbreaker, you may like to re-read both Seatback's and Yellow Rocket's comments as you seemed to have misinterpreted BOTH of them.
Firstly, it is quite evident that Seatback has NOT understood "recruitment freeze"as financial trouble - he/she is simply stating that yes, due to the Gulf War there IS a freeze on recruitment, and that no, QF are NOT in financial trouble - simply no link there!
Secondly, Yellow Rocket is clearly not "overestimating" his importance to QF. Quite obviously, this turn of phrase that has been used is showing how proud he is to have reached this final stage of an extremely tough process. Perhaps you are unaware of how difficult making that particular company's shortlist is in comparison to other airlines? Maybe next time, you need to think about what you write a little more carefully before you shoot people's comments down in flames!
Yes, we do read the newspapers go_dj. Those on the shortlist realise that right now, we possibly won't be receiving a call from QF in the near future. However, it is posts like this that keep those of us who are on the list informed of what is happening, as we try to plan for the months ahead - but thanks so much for your obviously uninformed thoughts about what may or may not be happening in regards to this!
There, that's better!
Perhaps Heartbreaker, you may like to re-read both Seatback's and Yellow Rocket's comments as you seemed to have misinterpreted BOTH of them.
Firstly, it is quite evident that Seatback has NOT understood "recruitment freeze"as financial trouble - he/she is simply stating that yes, due to the Gulf War there IS a freeze on recruitment, and that no, QF are NOT in financial trouble - simply no link there!
Secondly, Yellow Rocket is clearly not "overestimating" his importance to QF. Quite obviously, this turn of phrase that has been used is showing how proud he is to have reached this final stage of an extremely tough process. Perhaps you are unaware of how difficult making that particular company's shortlist is in comparison to other airlines? Maybe next time, you need to think about what you write a little more carefully before you shoot people's comments down in flames!
Yes, we do read the newspapers go_dj. Those on the shortlist realise that right now, we possibly won't be receiving a call from QF in the near future. However, it is posts like this that keep those of us who are on the list informed of what is happening, as we try to plan for the months ahead - but thanks so much for your obviously uninformed thoughts about what may or may not be happening in regards to this!
There, that's better!
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QF Update
Not sure if you guys got this email or not..... I've only just recd my successful shortlist notification and then this turned up two days later..... it would seem that QF are making some attempts to keep us informed where they can...
Thank you for your application for Flight Attendant with Qantas Airways and your recent commitment in going through the selection process with us.
This is a courtesy note to advise you that your application is still currently on our shortlist , clearly current world events are impacting on any immediate initial Flight Attendant training programs within Qantas, we will of course advise you should anything change in the near future.
Once again, thank you for your interest in a position as a Flight Attendant with Qantas Airways.
Yours sincerely
Recruitment & Promotion Co-ordinator
Thank you for your application for Flight Attendant with Qantas Airways and your recent commitment in going through the selection process with us.
This is a courtesy note to advise you that your application is still currently on our shortlist , clearly current world events are impacting on any immediate initial Flight Attendant training programs within Qantas, we will of course advise you should anything change in the near future.
Once again, thank you for your interest in a position as a Flight Attendant with Qantas Airways.
Yours sincerely
Recruitment & Promotion Co-ordinator
If cabinboy thinks dumping excess international capacity onto domestic routes and filling them with internet cheapies is a money spinning profit bonanza then I think he believes in Santa Claus !!
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Oh my god.....go_dj
Qantas has 286 million dollar profit on the board for the half year already. They will post a 350 million plus profit with the war and sars situation anyway. Your comment is so far off the mark, Qantas are making adjustments before any problems arise like we have been for the 82 other years we have been in business. Short listed people will be used when we have a stable market place so don't worry about uneducated guesses by people who have nothing to do with the QF operation. Go_dj who brings into the country 38% of all domestic pax ?, who will that effect ?, remember who was on cash only for aviation fuel the weeks leading to the Ansett collapse and who has put back the delivery of their new aircraft. Please more thought in your posts ?
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QF shortlist
I am currently on the short list and have been since the middle of feb. I recieved a courtesy email from qantas about a week and a half ago congratulating me on making it through the interview process and to let me know that they still had my application on the short list. They went on to say that due to current world events they would not be running a training school in the near future but will contact if this changes.
Hope this makes a few of you happy to at least know that they are communicating with us.
Hope this makes a few of you happy to at least know that they are communicating with us.
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wonderworld,
Have you ever heard of yield management ? QF don't fill a whole flight full of "internet cheapies" so yes they do make a profit on the additional flights they add to the domestic network.
Have you ever heard of yield management ? QF don't fill a whole flight full of "internet cheapies" so yes they do make a profit on the additional flights they add to the domestic network.
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Didn't we all get out of the wrong side of the bed this morning!!!
Come on everyone relax a little. This time is a stressful time for everyone involved directly with this industry. We all know that a small shift in world events can put hundreds or even thousands of us out of jobs- only to to have applications for employment to be advertised in the careers section the next week!!
Just remember that we are not senior management, lets not stoop to their level and get caught up in the constant bickering between the companies. Lets use this as a time to help each other out......
I'll start----- Virgin Blue is recruiting at the moment. Cloud 9 has started a thread on this so why doesn't anyone who is interested pop on over and have a look. I personally think that Virgin is a fantastic company to work for -- I love going to work each day and couldn't imagine doing anything else right now!!
--or--
If Qantas is where your heart is why not see out this recruitment "freeze" by gaining new skills. Start a new language, update your knowledge of a different culture, do a wine appreciation course. If you are on the shortlist perhaps you could keep QF up to date on your progression. Don't let them forget about you!!
Anyway try the other side of the bed in the morning.
love SMILE
Come on everyone relax a little. This time is a stressful time for everyone involved directly with this industry. We all know that a small shift in world events can put hundreds or even thousands of us out of jobs- only to to have applications for employment to be advertised in the careers section the next week!!
Just remember that we are not senior management, lets not stoop to their level and get caught up in the constant bickering between the companies. Lets use this as a time to help each other out......
I'll start----- Virgin Blue is recruiting at the moment. Cloud 9 has started a thread on this so why doesn't anyone who is interested pop on over and have a look. I personally think that Virgin is a fantastic company to work for -- I love going to work each day and couldn't imagine doing anything else right now!!
--or--
If Qantas is where your heart is why not see out this recruitment "freeze" by gaining new skills. Start a new language, update your knowledge of a different culture, do a wine appreciation course. If you are on the shortlist perhaps you could keep QF up to date on your progression. Don't let them forget about you!!
Anyway try the other side of the bed in the morning.
love SMILE
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6months letter
I am currently on the short list for longhaul and have been since Nov.
The 6months letter I received from QF will run out in 4weeks....
Unfortunaly,I lost my hope to get in QF now. but what can I do???
good luck to everyone on the list.
Hope this world situation will be better soon.
The 6months letter I received from QF will run out in 4weeks....
Unfortunaly,I lost my hope to get in QF now. but what can I do???
good luck to everyone on the list.
Hope this world situation will be better soon.
