Cabin Crew credibility in danger? Paxes ignore the seatbelt sign, no reaction from CC

[cptrogerover]

From my observation it's slowly becoming a norm that once an aircraft reaches a gate, passengers undo their seatbelts and even stand up to reach for their luggage, despite the seatbelt sign is still on. What surprises me is that there is no reaction from cabin crew, who just announced couple of minutes earlier "please remain seated until the aircraft comes to a full stop and the fasten seatbelt sign is switched off". This happens both on low cost carriers and increasingly at legacy airlines as well.

If this lack of reaction for breaking the rules you set continues, cabin crew will slowly lose its credibility and authority. Passengers will keep pushing the boundaries and there will be even more problems with unruly behavior. I've already witnessed couple of times undoing the seatbelts when taxiing / entering the apron and it has happened once that a guy unfastened his seatbelt just seconds after touchdown. 25 years ago that was hard to imagine.

What are your opinions? Should the cabin crew be more strict in enforcing the rules or keep politely reminding and then do nothing when people ignore them?

[ZFT]

You don't state where this is happening but certainly within SE Asia, pax are still quite disciplined and follow the signs.

[Andy_S]

Originally Posted by cptrogerover

What are your opinions? Should the cabin crew be more strict in enforcing the rules or keep politely reminding and then do nothing when people ignore them?

Not sure what the CC can do when the passengers leave their seats en-masse.

But one country at least are taking action:

Turkey to fine airline passengers who stand up before plane stops

[cptrogerover]

Originally Posted by ZFT

You don't state where this is happening but certainly within SE Asia, pax are still quite disciplined and follow the signs.

I'm sorry, I forgot to mention it's happening in Europe. Yes, people in Asia are more disciplined and more inclined to follow the rules. That was also the case in Europe in the past but it's been changing over the years.

Originally Posted by Andy_S

Not sure what the CC can do when the passengers leave their seats en-masse.

Yes, a fine is one of the possible solutions. But they could also shout loud on the speakers (it happened once when someone stood up while the plane was still moving) or walk through the cabin to get people fasten their seatbelt. Passengers must see things are taken seriously because lack of reaction is seen as a silent permission. People see there are no consequences for breaking the rules and that always leads to more people breaking more rules.

[Tu.114]

Simply request an announcement from the flight deck.

"There will now follow a short delay until the cabin is again in a secure condition for taxi. Would all the estimated passengers please take their seats again, so we can continue."

Works wonders.

[Stuart Sutcliffe]

Originally Posted by Tu.114

Would all the estimated passengers please take their seats again, so we can continue."

"Estimated" passengers? Forgive me, but what are you trying to say there?

[stevef]

Originally Posted by Stuart Sutcliffe

"Estimated" passengers? Forgive me, but what are you trying to say there?

It's clear to me that Tu144 meant 'esteemed'. Perhaps he's not a native English speaker (but nevertheless conversant). It's easy to make mistakes when not writing or speaking in one's first language. I do it all the time (but my errors are usually major!).

[wowzz]

Originally Posted by Tu.114

Simply request an announcement from the flight deck.

"There will now follow a short delay until the cabin is again in a secure condition for taxi. Would all the estimated passengers please take their seats again, so we can continue."

Works wonders.

Hmm - sounds good but I'm not sure how happy ground ops will be, if a/c stop randomly on a taxi way.

[Don Coyote]

Originally Posted by wowzz

Hmm - sounds good but I'm not sure how happy ground ops will be, if a/c stop randomly on a taxi way.

Doesn't matter. The Captain is responsible for the safety of the aircraft and the passengers. If a passenger stands up and the pilot has to brake, that passenger could fall and injure another passenger. The pilot is well within his rights to stop anywhere if he believes passengers may be injured.

I have done it in the past where I have heard the cabin crew make a PA asking a passenger to return to their seat. I have stopped and made a PA that I would not continue until I had been notified by the cabin crew that all passengers had returned to their seats. No issue with ground control and "looks that could kill" from the rest of the passengers meant that everyone returned to their seats and we resumed our taxi to the stand.

[Tu.114]

Indeed, English is not my first or only language. But still, You seem to get the core of the message.

When passengers start to wander the cabin during taxi, it is easily noticed in the flight deck from the cabin crews PA orders to sit down again. Having the PA volume control on the audio selector slightly open helps quickly notice developments in the cabin. Passengers appear not to understand those cabin crew-given orders too well though, they often see no reason to obey as they should. A smooth stop (certainly not by slamming the brakes, you do not want to injure anybody!), if considered appropriate a word to the ground controller, and most importantly an announcement to the passengers from the flight deck has much more effect here.

First of all, the passengers, all of them, notice the stop. When the flight deck then places the blame for this on the easily identifyable group that has stood up against regulations and orders, there will be peer pressure among passengers. A lot. All of them want to get off the aircraft, many will have connections they hope to reach, it may well be that the flight is delayed and those connections are quite critical already. The other passengers fear of missing the onward flight is therefore focussed on the standing passengers within a second. The critical ingredient here is the stop, which can only be delivered from the flight deck.

The reasoning behind this is clear: the cabin is no longer secured and, should there be a reason for an emergency braking due to a vehicle crossing in front or something else that has often happened on a crowded apron, there is no longer time for an elegant stop and there will be injuries. The stop is therefore clearly for safety reasons and a most prudent course of action.

In my experience, such a stop never takes longer than 30 seconds. When the cabin crew then confirms that the cabin is secured again, there is no reason not to continue to the gate. During deboarding, the premature wanderers are usually rather deflated (although a little miffed maybe) and there is no need for further explanations.

[cptrogerover]

From the replies, including replies from pilots, it seems there is a consensus that stopping the aircraft and doing a PA when someone stands up during taxi is the best action to take in order to ensure safety of passengers.

What if someone only unfastens the seatbelt during taxi but doesn't stand up. Should cabin crew notify the captain and should he also stop the aircraft?

[FlightDetent]

Originally Posted by ZFT

You don't state where this is happening but certainly within SE Asia, pax are still quite disciplined and follow the signs.

Experience shows the SE citizens to be well obedient, while at the same time being the absolute worse demographic for jumping for the exit anytime the plane stops after landing.

[PENKO]

I think this is all very airline specific. I’ve flown on airlines as a passenger where there is absolutely no reaction whatsoever from the crew when passengers stand up during taxi (or even during landing!). On the other hand, at my place of work the cabin crew are very proactive and can be heard on the PA as soon as someone even thinks about unbuckling their seatbelts. As a consequence there is almost zero need for us pilots to even consider stopping the aircraft, the cabin crew have it well in hand. If there’s a delay during taxi we will often make a PA from the cockpit explaining that we have not reached our parking position yet, backing up our cabin crew in their effort to keep everyone seated.

So it all seems to depend on the cabin crew assertiveness and the airline culture and policy.

[Stuart Sutcliffe]

Originally Posted by stevef

It's clear to me that Tu144 meant 'esteemed'. Perhaps he's not a native English speaker (but nevertheless conversant). It's easy to make mistakes when not writing or speaking in one's first language. I do it all the time (but my errors are usually major!).

But it wasn't you asking the question, it was me. And I was not clear about was meant, so I asked, politely. 🙄

[Expatrick]

I recall a Southampton - Paris flight, after the usual announcements had been made, there was a repeat of the "remaining seated with your seat belts fastened" stipulation - with the supplementary comment "and yes, Sir, 4 rows up from me on my left, this also applies to you" Many faces turn to look and highly embarrassed passenger promptly sat down!