BA cabin crew to strike
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 889
Likes: 3
From: UK
I am wondering about the £3 per hour flight pay. This is not something I am familiar with but it was being discussed before I hung my wings up.
It was supposed to be for the entire itinary not just the flying hours. So on a 3 day nightstop it would be from check in to debrief.
Can anyone confirm this?
It was supposed to be for the entire itinary not just the flying hours. So on a 3 day nightstop it would be from check in to debrief.
Can anyone confirm this?
Joined: Nov 2007
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 537
Likes: 179
From: Between a rock & a hard place.
Confirmed.
MF are more expensive to send on some routes, mostly India.
Their T&Cs are poor. Santiago from LHR, night stop then back with 2 days off. Beyond tiring.
'They knew what they were getting into when they applied for the job.' Perhaps like everything else these days it was all fluff and no substance. Much like BA flights, the reality rarely matches the promise.
MF are more expensive to send on some routes, mostly India.
Their T&Cs are poor. Santiago from LHR, night stop then back with 2 days off. Beyond tiring.
'They knew what they were getting into when they applied for the job.' Perhaps like everything else these days it was all fluff and no substance. Much like BA flights, the reality rarely matches the promise.
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,290
Likes: 9
From: BHX LXR ASW
Most carriers who pay flight pay use block times and not reporting times. So if you have a 2 hour delay for what ever reason with pax on board you don't get a penny for it, even though you might be selling scratch cards or whatever.
With BA short haul charging for food starting next month, will the crews be getting commission of those delectable M&S filled sandwiches?
With BA short haul charging for food starting next month, will the crews be getting commission of those delectable M&S filled sandwiches?
Joined: Aug 2001
Aviation Qualifications: Spotter
Posts: 1,829
Likes: 165
From: se england
But to alarge degree it comes back in all these situations to a general feeling of unhappiness. And most of them have a point to some degree .I don't for example notice anyone on here saying why are VS pilots talking about striking after all planes fly themselves these days and therefore the job is very easy and doesnt deserve better pay and conditions and as for this fatigue bit well you try doing a ten hour day with 2 hours on the M25 at each end blah blah blah...
No the problem is that close on ten years of dishonesty and unethical and often useless managements (and the Union management are included in that) focussed only on increasing their salary , bonuses and stock options has gradually begun to catch up with UK Plc with far too many people earning inadequate salaries for any sort of life especially if you live near or commute to LHR. People have learned that in todays world you get paid not what you are worth but what you can screw out of employer-hence TFL drivers get big money because no tube no London. Also people in these age groups have seen city folk bring the country to its knees and yet still earn big bucks because in their case as has been demonstrated for the most part they lose our money not their own.
Its like the invisible Surrey and Sussex Tory MPs who never said a word about the Southern Trains fiasco but as soon as the Union really do put the screws on its ban strikes and curb union power.
And as I have said before I think it is sad and pretty hypocritical for many on here to lambast people on very low wages who mostly doa decent job and most certainly are not part of that section of BA CC who we have all experienced at times who may by some measures may have been overpaid
No the problem is that close on ten years of dishonesty and unethical and often useless managements (and the Union management are included in that) focussed only on increasing their salary , bonuses and stock options has gradually begun to catch up with UK Plc with far too many people earning inadequate salaries for any sort of life especially if you live near or commute to LHR. People have learned that in todays world you get paid not what you are worth but what you can screw out of employer-hence TFL drivers get big money because no tube no London. Also people in these age groups have seen city folk bring the country to its knees and yet still earn big bucks because in their case as has been demonstrated for the most part they lose our money not their own.
Its like the invisible Surrey and Sussex Tory MPs who never said a word about the Southern Trains fiasco but as soon as the Union really do put the screws on its ban strikes and curb union power.
And as I have said before I think it is sad and pretty hypocritical for many on here to lambast people on very low wages who mostly doa decent job and most certainly are not part of that section of BA CC who we have all experienced at times who may by some measures may have been overpaid
Joined: Aug 2001
Aviation Qualifications: Spotter
Posts: 1,829
Likes: 165
From: se england
i dont see any difference between my comment on being over paid and yours, I just didnt know where they were potentially being over paid and by what measures . All you did was essentially explain where so I am not sure whay i lost youat that point.
And if we look at the last 70 years it is a failure of British management -as I pointed out I include union management (leaders) in that by mixing politics with member issues in the same way that instead of building sustainable and positive relations with employees owners have taken every opportunity to make their life worse .Its a sorry tale on both sides
And if we look at the last 70 years it is a failure of British management -as I pointed out I include union management (leaders) in that by mixing politics with member issues in the same way that instead of building sustainable and positive relations with employees owners have taken every opportunity to make their life worse .Its a sorry tale on both sides
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 309
Likes: 0
From: London
If that nasty McClunky had meaningfully negotiated with BA during the last dispute there may not have been a mixed fleet or one that looks very different. Because of their intransigence and poor leadership from BASSA it just got imposed by WW. So imho he and BASSA are partly the architects of this.
I do think these poor b*ggers from MF are being used in Unites and McClunkys bigger political game and could be left high and dry.
I can't see Willy backing down he can still operate a big chunk of the network and knows the MF crew can't afford to stay out long as they are not on the inflated salaries of the 'old' crew.
My only fear is the other crew who are part of BASSA could be encouraged for a 'sickout' (they have form in this area) to save Unites face.
Does McClunky learn nothing about public support when you plan industrial action at Christmas (all the negative headlines last time).
If only they had negotiated meaningfully last time - Unite you reap what you sow.
See they are going to ACAS tomorrow now.
I feel for these crew represented by these muppets.
I do think these poor b*ggers from MF are being used in Unites and McClunkys bigger political game and could be left high and dry.
I can't see Willy backing down he can still operate a big chunk of the network and knows the MF crew can't afford to stay out long as they are not on the inflated salaries of the 'old' crew.
My only fear is the other crew who are part of BASSA could be encouraged for a 'sickout' (they have form in this area) to save Unites face.
Does McClunky learn nothing about public support when you plan industrial action at Christmas (all the negative headlines last time).
If only they had negotiated meaningfully last time - Unite you reap what you sow.
See they are going to ACAS tomorrow now.
I feel for these crew represented by these muppets.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 459
Likes: 1
From: Philippines
The other side of the coin:
1.Work harder at school;
2. Choose a different career; and
3. If you must strike don't choose the Christmas period.
Striking at Christmas does nothing to further your cause and gives management the opportunity to gain the high ground ...
i presume there'll be no BA advert running showing lots of happy families meeting and greeting over the Christmas period.
How times have changed - I always thought the ambitions of cabin crew were to travel the World and marry a pilot ... now they want a decent wage as well ... there's no pleasing some folk
1.Work harder at school;
2. Choose a different career; and
3. If you must strike don't choose the Christmas period.
Striking at Christmas does nothing to further your cause and gives management the opportunity to gain the high ground ...
i presume there'll be no BA advert running showing lots of happy families meeting and greeting over the Christmas period.
How times have changed - I always thought the ambitions of cabin crew were to travel the World and marry a pilot ... now they want a decent wage as well ... there's no pleasing some folk
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 459
Likes: 1
From: Philippines
Tongue in cheek ... I know more cabin crew with master's degrees than in any other profession ...
However, the travelling public must be your first concern over (selfish) self-interest ... ways and means, but I don't think Christmas is it ...
There's enough trouble already with small boys playing with big trains ...
However, the travelling public must be your first concern over (selfish) self-interest ... ways and means, but I don't think Christmas is it ...
There's enough trouble already with small boys playing with big trains ...
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 308
Likes: 20
From: London
Just to clarify that Willie Walsh (as CEO of IAG) will not be involved in this. Industrial relations are the responsibility of the operating airline CEOs.
Alex Cruz is now CEO of BA (who is an unknown quantity as far as response to industrial action at BA is concerned) will be leading this.
BA's response to the strike announcement on Friday (making it absolutely clear the strike would fail) actually sounded far more combative than when BASSA was intent on driving the airline off a cliff.
MF do have legitimate concerns around some of the rostering (witness the very different response to other workgroups in the airline to the BASSA dispute of 2009) and hopefully this is resolved without industrial action.
Alex Cruz is now CEO of BA (who is an unknown quantity as far as response to industrial action at BA is concerned) will be leading this.
BA's response to the strike announcement on Friday (making it absolutely clear the strike would fail) actually sounded far more combative than when BASSA was intent on driving the airline off a cliff.
MF do have legitimate concerns around some of the rostering (witness the very different response to other workgroups in the airline to the BASSA dispute of 2009) and hopefully this is resolved without industrial action.
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 739
Likes: 6
From: York
BA has said today that they do not plan to cancel any flights during the strike period.
In the meantime, BA can't be certain which of it's crew will turn up for work/call in sick etc. Contingency plans will have to be put in place, which will undoubtedly cost money, even if they are not used.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 898
Likes: 73
From: UK
"We reject Unite's claims about Mixed Fleet's earnings and have offered an independent audit of our pay data over the last 12 months to support our statement that Mixed Fleet cabin crew working full-time earn more than £21,000 a year.
"The pay data shows that the range of earnings paid out to full-time Mixed Fleet crew between September 1 2015 and August 31 2016 was £21,151.35 - £27,356.30."
British Airways 'to deliver full Christmas service despite strikes' | London Evening Standard
"The pay data shows that the range of earnings paid out to full-time Mixed Fleet crew between September 1 2015 and August 31 2016 was £21,151.35 - £27,356.30."
British Airways 'to deliver full Christmas service despite strikes' | London Evening Standard
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 889
Likes: 3
From: UK
Standard practice for Unite - plead poverty! I remember the same tosh coming out of them during the 2010 dispute and I know 100% fact that back then a CSD on WW would earn around £65k all up. If you took married rosters in to account that would produce a joint income well in excess of £100k pa.
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 739
Likes: 6
From: York
CSD on WW would earn around £65k all up
However, that's just like saying, co-pilots in BA earn in excess of £100k. Or a household income in excess of £200k should they, (like your CSD) be married to a similarly qualified spouse!
That's not because it's 'market rate', (it isn't!) but just because that's what's agreed between the employer and the employee. (via their unions)
So what's your point???
Of course new SCCMs now earn half your CSD's figure, and have more onerous office duties/responsibilities! Why shouldn't we just accept pilot's pay going the same way?
After all, 'market rate' should apply to all employees shouldn't it?
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 898
Likes: 73
From: UK
4468, I think the point being made was that it is Unite's standard practice to considerably understate the salaries of its members in order to attempt to gain public sympathy.
I think most pilots accepted that over a decade ago! The entire reason why BA mixed fleet exists is because BASSA didn't accept that ever. They were just saying no right up until the end, which forced BA to completely halt recruitment onto the old terms and conditions; setting up mixed fleet with the step change to market rate they'd been attempting to achieve gradually for well over a decade.
Why shouldn't we just accept pilot's pay going the same way?
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 889
Likes: 3
From: UK
4468 I didn't say it was wrong I was, in fact, a recipient of those salaries. The point I was making was explained by GSA in his post it's Unite's standard gambit tell everyone that BA crew are living in almost Dickensian poverty, sleeping in their cars and living on tins of cold baked beans.
In reality BA crew are well rewarded. However from my knowledge of the Mixed Fleet agreements they work hard for it and improvements to their T&C's would be preferable to a small,increase in BA's 2% pay offer.
In reality BA crew are well rewarded. However from my knowledge of the Mixed Fleet agreements they work hard for it and improvements to their T&C's would be preferable to a small,increase in BA's 2% pay offer.
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 739
Likes: 6
From: York
vctenderness
I'm sure you will educate me if I've misremembered, but I don't recall CSD's salaries being mentioned by Unite, during the 2010 strikes. Though I imagine BA may well have referred to them??
In any event, there are precious few parallels between that disagreement and this. Those personnel and these.
Standard practice for Unite - plead poverty! I remember the same tosh coming out of them during the 2010 dispute
In any event, there are precious few parallels between that disagreement and this. Those personnel and these.
