Delta crew refused to believe black woman was a doctor during emergency

[TURIN]

Ye gods.

Is anyone actually suggesting that she should not have shown her credentials? No.

If she is sat behind the patient, and is the first in line to offer help, it is at that point the FA should ask for credentials. By the account quoted above, she wasn't asked and was repeatedly dismissed.
Whether that is because she looks too young or because she isn't white remains to be seen.

Ageism and racism are not big problems in the world are they?

[Basil]

Ageism and racism are not big problems in the world are they?

Well, at my age, these schoolboys maquerading as policemen and pilots are a worry . . .

I remember guys going solo in a jet who didn't yet have a driving licence.

[Permafrost_ATPL]

Don't try to stifle comment by playing the race card; that's so passé.

Haha, classic. Never ceases to amaze me how people think they can win an argument about racism by just stating "you're playing the race card". Well done Cicero!

[NWA SLF]

It was an A-320, Delta, not one of its subsidiaries. A neighbor of mine, white male, 65 years old, recently responded to such a call on a Delta flight and no questioning of his credentials. His credentials are impeccable, ER certified trauma physician, but beside the point - elderly white male and no questioning his credentials. But that's America.

[Skipname]

I think asking for the volunteer's credentials it's standard practice across the industry.

In my airline we have a policy where the FA must ask the volunteer for credentials before allowing them to assist. If they fail to show any credentials the captain must be notified and he or she then decides if the FA are to allow the volunteer to assist.

If the volunteer shows credentials then they are allowed to take over and the FA are to assist them anyway they can. If the volunteer fails to provide any credentials and the captain decides to allow them to assist the FA is still in charge and the volunteer is not allowed to give the casualty any medication.

[PENKO]

Stop the (almost racist) nonsense about credentials and read the actual account. No credentials were asked:

(...)A couple mins later he is unresponsive again and the flight attendant yells "call overhead for a physician on board". I raised my hand to grab her attention. She said to me "oh no sweetie put ur hand down, we are looking for actual physicians or nurses or some type of medical personnel, we don't have time to talk to you" I tried to inform her that I was a physician but I was continually cut off by condescending remarks.

But go on, blame the victim. One of you even posts a picture of said black woman. Well, I see a picture of a young female. She could be a nuclear scientist, doctor, pilot, anything. What exactly are you trying to say by posting that picture?

[sitigeltfel]

Were there witnesses to this conversation between the Doctor and the CC?
If so, where are they?
Somebody must have heard something?

Delta say three people came to assist, but only one could present proof..

A message about allegations of discrimination on a recent Delta flight | Delta News Hub

[Ian W]

There are times when panicked people - even flight attendants need firm handling.

A couple mins later he is unresponsive again and the flight attendant yells "call overhead for a physician on board". I raised my hand to grab her attention. She said to me "oh no sweetie put ur hand down, we are looking for actual physicians or nurses or some type of medical personnel, we don't have time to talk to you" I tried to inform her that I was a physician but I was continually cut off by condescending remarks.

A firm talk over the other person statement not brooking any interruption -

"I AM A DOCTOR" holding their gaze and saying over whatever they are saying loudly so that 3 rows ahead and behind hear what is said:
"Did you understand that? - I AM A DOCTOR do you want professional assistance with your sick passenger or not?" .
Then smile and get up and say "Let's see what the problem is..."

There are times when you just have to take control.

This is of course immediately grist for all those claiming various 'isms' ... remember the old saying "when you point your finger at someone three of your fingers are pointing back at you".

However, this looks like an authority gradient possibly due to a female flight attendant being a few decades older than the doctor. An authority gradient the doctor was unwilling to overcome. (Junior first officers have let senior captains crash aircraft because of authority gradients).

[Spooky 2]

Take this for what i's worth:

Here's a reply posted on Facebook by one of the other doctors that attempted to assist with the ill passenger on that flight:

From another post:

"Is it my fault that this story would actually come up in the middle of my work day? I never expected this to show up on social media. I'm sorry if I don't walk around with items and trinkets from my latest trip! Be for real.
Anyway. I was 5 or 6 row behind the couple in trouble. Dr. Cross did stand up and start to get out of her seat. She was confronted and asked for credentials. Just like her, I don't carry anything that proves I'm a doctor either. Yes the patient was having what appeared to be a seizure. He did float in and out of consciousness. The stewardess asked Dr. Cross for credentials. Dr. Cross became extremely belligerent. Throwing her hands in the air and sounding extremely unprofessional. If I was a patient, her behavior would have scared me. In today's world....would you want some nut that claims to be a doctor taking care if you. Before I go on. Let's talk about Dr. Cross's attire. She looked sloppy and unkempt. A very good reason for the stewardess to question if she was a doctor. Not a black or gender issue at all..... as a side note. I rebuild cars in my time off. My hands are greasy, holes in my clothes. I wouldnt expect anyone to believe that I'm a doctor. But I don't have that kind of ego to get upset about it. Either accept my word that I'm a doctor or screw off. I don't care! I'm not the one dying. But go turn this into a racial issue is a scum move.
Anyway. They overhead called for a doctor. Me and another man got up. He did in fact have a DEA and an NPI card on him. I didn't and neither did Dr. Criss. The doc that tended to the patient didn't have any experience in ER or trauma. But he did his best. Dr. Criss was screaming up the isle on what he should do. It was a disgrace. She was calling the stewardess names and telling the doctor helping the patient that he was useless. The whole time making smug comments about his ability. Dr. cross thinks that just because she may be a doctor that everyone around her must bow down. And don't go against her or she will blame it on racism... good lord this country is in trouble. Enough said."

Also, DAL is one of the most "progressive" companies in the US. Many of their pilots are black and way back in the late eighties many has achieved management positions in flight ops sp for those poster that want to throw stones at DAL regarding their social responsibilities I suggest you name any other airline in the world that has done more.

To bad problem child that thinks she is Gods gift to the medical profession cause such a storm. Probably had a "Don't Shoot" T shirt on under her other rags.

Personally, I'll take an EMT over any OBGYN when I need real help.

[Airbubba]

The stewardess asked Dr. Cross for credentials. Dr. Cross became extremely belligerent. Throwing her hands in the air and sounding extremely unprofessional.

Let's talk about Dr. Cross's attire. She looked sloppy and unkempt. A very good reason for the stewardess to question if she was a doctor.

The doc that tended to the patient didn't have any experience in ER or trauma. But he did his best. Dr. Criss was screaming up the isle on what he should do. It was a disgrace. She was calling the stewardess names and telling the doctor helping the patient that he was useless. The whole time making smug comments about his ability. Dr. cross thinks that just because she may be a doctor that everyone around her must bow down. And don't go against her or she will blame it on racism... good lord this country is in trouble. Enough said."

Thanks for sharing this additional account of the alleged 'racial incident' Spooky 2. I found it odd that the media would so readily embrace the original version of events without further investigation.

[tdracer]

Oh come on now, we all know no one ever exaggerates or stretches the truth on social media


While there is certainly racism and sexism out there, blowing questionable incidents like this into the headline just serves to cheapen the claims of those who have actually suffered

[giggitygiggity]

@underfire

Tamika Cross FB page.



why ask for credentials?

I assume you have posted this Doctors picture along with 'why ask for credentials?' because you feel that it is hardly surprising that they didn't believe she was really a doctor based on her appearance?

I suppose you're making that assumption based upon her lipstick, hipster glasses, jewellery, braided hair and general 'ethnic' appearance. I completely agree that anyone claiming to be a medical professional should have their credentials duly scrutinised (even if it's a 60 year old white man with a white lab coat, beard, stethoscope and briefcase), I fear you have just posted her picture to make some sort of prejudiced point regarding her appearance.

Apologies if I've pre-judged you and misunderstood the sentiment of your post, it just seem a bit of an odd thing to put in a thread on pprune, doesn't it?

[peekay4]

Thanks for sharing this additional account of the alleged 'racial incident' Spooky 2. I found it odd that the media would so readily embrace the original version of events without further investigation.

Actually, it's this alleged post by the "3rd doctor" which so far cannot be verified.

The post was made anonymously on several aviation-related forums, always attributed to someone else on "another thread" or "another post".

[vapilot2004]

Originally Posted by Basil

I remember guys going solo in a jet who didn't yet have a driving licence.

Proud to say I was 17 years old when I soloed in a PA-28 with no driver license in my wallet.

[neila83]

Quote:
Thanks for sharing this additional account of the alleged 'racial incident' Spooky 2. I found it odd that the media would so readily embrace the original version of events without further investigation.
Actually, it's this alleged post by the "3rd doctor" which so far cannot be verified.

The post was made anonymously on several aviation-related forums, always attributed to someone else on "another thread" or "another post".

And to be honest, if it is true, it makes the guys sound like a massive douche. Not too sure about his writing style for a doctor.

To those who have suggested it, I haven't seen anyone 'play the race card'. Such a tired cliché. I love all these people who bang on about political correctness and offence seekers ruining the world; usually the same people who absolutely lose their s**t if someone dares not sing the national anthem or somesuch. Such fragile darlings.

[obgraham]

Well if the "doc" referenced in Spooky's post above prefers an EMT to an ObGyn, that's his privilege. An EMT, however, encompasses a whole range of skills, and is not the same as a paramedic. I'll take the Doc, thanks, whatever color.

That said, I in fact am an ObGyn, and have responded to 4-5 calls like this over the years. Never once been asked for any credentials (and don't in fact carry any). 2 of those calls involved a pregnant lady, the others the usual fainter or bellyache.

In my cases, and others I have watched, usually a couple of docs volunteer, everyone confirs, and someone most qualified goes ahead. If they don't want my help, I really don't care -- that's on them.

To me, in this instance the Delta staff screwed up in handling this young doc, and owe her an apology. If she in return acted like a twit, then "fie" on her. She's going to have to develop a whole lot thicker skin if she wishes to succeed.

[PersonFromPorlock]

I found it odd that the media would so readily embrace the original version of events without further investigation.

Investigating 'a good story' may render it unusable. Why go to the trouble and expense of verifying it, when the best result is that you can use it - which you can already do - and the worst, after all that effort, is that you can't. Either you gain nothing, or you waste everything.

Remember, 'news' is the filler that goes between the ads. All it has to be is cheap and entertaining.

[Basil]

Spooky 2, Interesting - if true.
Pity that this sort of news item brings out the Sir Galahads and Don Quixotes of the world wearing their escutcheon of Liberal jihad.

Look at me. I save maidens in distress.

Respice ad me. Nisi quia virgines in tribulatione. (Ain't Google wonderful)

[cooperplace]

my wife is a medical doctor, and a frequent flier. Many times on longhaul she's volunteered when there's a call for a doctor. She's never been asked to show credentials, which is good because she doesn't carry any. On one occasion she saved the airline a fortune because she advised the captain that the plane didn't need to divert, which advice he gratefully accepted. On another occasion she wasn't needed as a cardiologist and an ER doc had beaten her to the patient. She finds the airlines enormously variable in their responses. Sometimes it's rudeness: "you're not needed any more, go back to your seat" all the way thru to upgrades, air miles, gushing thanks. With no apparent relationship between the value of the medical advice (for she obviously never bills) and the gratitude displayed. She thinks that a firm policy, eg, "must show credentials" would be silly: most docs don't carry them, and how are flight crew qualified to instantly assess all the different forms of medical credentials? As an experienced physician she is accustomed to taking command when this is called for, and in aviation situations this works just fine. She also thinks that some airlines could improve their performance by refraining from rudeness to doctors who offer to help, and making some effort, however small, to say thank you. Make of that what you will.

[Basil]

On one occasion, I had a newly qualified doctor on the flight deck, an HF call to company in the UK with a 'phone patch to a medical advice unit in the USA.
Diverted to Boston to offload patient and used discretion to proceed to destination Orlando.