Drunk and Abusive Passenger
Thread Starter
Drunk and Abusive Passenger
I am not Cabin Crew but have just returned from a holiday in Greece courtesy of a well known Holiday Airline.
It was apparent from an early stage that one passenger had over indulged and was not interested in stopping anytime soon. He had on the usual uniform of football shirt, massive gold ear ring and an IQ of a baby Panda.
His behaviour became so bad that the young ladies sat next to him were forced to move.
At this point he got the attention of one of the Cabin Crew by throwing two plastic cups at her as well as swearing at the top of his voice. We all assumed that this was a step too far and he would now be dealt with. Wrong. She proceeded to sell him four bottles of wine. Not surprisingly this passenger became even more animated the more he drank. This culminated in him announcing that he did not care if the plane crashed and he then wanted to know if there were any Muslims on board. Only then did the crew step in and he was confronted by the Senior Cabin Manager. In fairness she was fantastic; strict but not confrontational and over about 20 minutes she defused the situation to the point that this idiot fell asleep.
However, this situation was heading from a drama to a crisis because, in my opinion, of the foolhardy action of a member of the crew. It was stated, quite clearly, that bad behaviour would not be tolerated and that the crew had the right to refuse to sell alcohol to any passenger. This seemed to be the first thing that was ignored.
Why am I so angry? 1. I was a passenger who, at one time, did not feel safe at all. 2. In my day job, I am one of those on the ground that has to respond to this kind of situation when it gets out of hand. By that I mean initiating and helping to run the miltary response that goes hand in hand with reports of unruly passengers or an on board threat. That reponse also includes a lot of other agencies and, quite possibly, the diversion of such an aircraft to another airport. It's big, it's expensive and it has very big knock on effects. In this instance it is hypothetical but over the last 11 years I have been involved in many real events, often started by a silly error.
I would like to think this was an isolated incident and I would welcome any feedback from the CC community. I am seriously considering writing to the Airline concerned giving details, including names, and submitting a more formal report to the Department for Transport and Security.
Over the top? You had to be there..........................
It was apparent from an early stage that one passenger had over indulged and was not interested in stopping anytime soon. He had on the usual uniform of football shirt, massive gold ear ring and an IQ of a baby Panda.
His behaviour became so bad that the young ladies sat next to him were forced to move.
At this point he got the attention of one of the Cabin Crew by throwing two plastic cups at her as well as swearing at the top of his voice. We all assumed that this was a step too far and he would now be dealt with. Wrong. She proceeded to sell him four bottles of wine. Not surprisingly this passenger became even more animated the more he drank. This culminated in him announcing that he did not care if the plane crashed and he then wanted to know if there were any Muslims on board. Only then did the crew step in and he was confronted by the Senior Cabin Manager. In fairness she was fantastic; strict but not confrontational and over about 20 minutes she defused the situation to the point that this idiot fell asleep.
However, this situation was heading from a drama to a crisis because, in my opinion, of the foolhardy action of a member of the crew. It was stated, quite clearly, that bad behaviour would not be tolerated and that the crew had the right to refuse to sell alcohol to any passenger. This seemed to be the first thing that was ignored.
Why am I so angry? 1. I was a passenger who, at one time, did not feel safe at all. 2. In my day job, I am one of those on the ground that has to respond to this kind of situation when it gets out of hand. By that I mean initiating and helping to run the miltary response that goes hand in hand with reports of unruly passengers or an on board threat. That reponse also includes a lot of other agencies and, quite possibly, the diversion of such an aircraft to another airport. It's big, it's expensive and it has very big knock on effects. In this instance it is hypothetical but over the last 11 years I have been involved in many real events, often started by a silly error.
I would like to think this was an isolated incident and I would welcome any feedback from the CC community. I am seriously considering writing to the Airline concerned giving details, including names, and submitting a more formal report to the Department for Transport and Security.
Over the top? You had to be there..........................
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On a recent flight back from The EU, the behaviour of some english passengers was embarrassing.
Football top, (usually a London club) check
Dodgy tattoos, check
Pissed, check
Loud foul language, check
Fat / Obese, check
That pretty much summed up the trouble makers.
Wouldn't want to be cabin crew having to deal with it
Football top, (usually a London club) check
Dodgy tattoos, check
Pissed, check
Loud foul language, check
Fat / Obese, check
That pretty much summed up the trouble makers.
Wouldn't want to be cabin crew having to deal with it
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Completely agree with you. This type of behaviour should attract zero tolerance. I was on a Eurostar train the other night and a group of five foulmouthed 'hooray Henries' who had obviously enjoyed a long and liquid lunch started abusing other passengers and throwing food and beer cans around. The train staff handled it in an exemplary manner and the louts were escorted off the train on arrival by security as a result of a formal complaint made by three passengers including myself.
As far as, in your event, serving further alcohol is concerned, it might seem inappropriate but it may have achieved the desired effect of making him fall asleep, however, it's a high risk strategy.
Yes, I think you should escalate it to the authorities as a formal complaint.
As far as, in your event, serving further alcohol is concerned, it might seem inappropriate but it may have achieved the desired effect of making him fall asleep, however, it's a high risk strategy.
Yes, I think you should escalate it to the authorities as a formal complaint.
I agree you should escalate this. Cabin crew should NOT sell alcohol to anyone who is abusive, this will only cause more trouble. If as a passenger you felt unsafe because of what happened then you should definitely complain to the airline and the CAA. You didn't say if you had any witnesses.
The trouble now is the problem of 'soft justice' in the UK court system. Drunken passengers are a regular feature of the newpapers and get away with it to fight another day. Here is another bad example:
Former air stewardess flying to London for honeymoon kicked cabin crew and shouted: 'F*** off. I'm going to shoot you in the face' | Mail Online
I posted this in Jet Blast for interest.
The trouble now is the problem of 'soft justice' in the UK court system. Drunken passengers are a regular feature of the newpapers and get away with it to fight another day. Here is another bad example:
Former air stewardess flying to London for honeymoon kicked cabin crew and shouted: 'F*** off. I'm going to shoot you in the face' | Mail Online
I posted this in Jet Blast for interest.
"The trouble now is the problem of 'soft justice' in the UK court system. Drunken passengers are a regular feature of the newpapers and get away with it to fight another day."
I can't say I agree, at my airline all of the incidents that we escalate to the authorities tend to be dealt with pretty severely, including some high profile cases. I'd suggest that your example isn't representative of the hundreds of these I deal with every year.
OP: Write to the airline first (likely the head of SEP, Safety Standards, or Security) and let them know, they'll look into this. If you find you're getting nowhere then by all means write to the UK CAA.
Don't bother with the DfT, they do write security policy (note, not safety policy) but it's the CAA who enforce it. Disruptive passengers are one of those areas that involve safety as well as security so it'll certainly be the CAA who will deal.
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In respect of my posting #3, I have just received this email :
A difficult situation very well handled by Eurostar both at the time and subsequently.
I am writing to you in response to an e-mail we have received from the Train Manager onboard your Eurostar Journey last week.
You Train manager xxxxx has explained what happened onboard and has asked that we contact you to both apologise and arrange for a gift to be sent to you as a gesture of goodwill. From her account it does seem that the onboard staff did all they could to manage the difficult situation onboard but unfortunately the actions of some of your fellow passengers did affect your enjoyment of your journey.
If you are able to send me your home address then I would be happy to arrange for a gift to be sent to you.
I hope to hear from you soon.
Kind regards,
xxxxxx
Eurostar Traveller Care
You Train manager xxxxx has explained what happened onboard and has asked that we contact you to both apologise and arrange for a gift to be sent to you as a gesture of goodwill. From her account it does seem that the onboard staff did all they could to manage the difficult situation onboard but unfortunately the actions of some of your fellow passengers did affect your enjoyment of your journey.
If you are able to send me your home address then I would be happy to arrange for a gift to be sent to you.
I hope to hear from you soon.
Kind regards,
xxxxxx
Eurostar Traveller Care
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Laarbruch - I disagree. The OP should write to the CAA (not the DfT) to give some background to the MOR that should have been completed. A copy of the letter could be sent to the airline as a matter of courtesy. As the airline will have reported this incident, the letter will come as no surprise. Unless of course... I for one would be very upset having to tolerate the drunken raving of a slob for any period of time.
PM
The Department for Transport and Security are part of the problem, certainly in the UK. Fortunately, they have little to do with an an aircraft in flight. I'm sure they are staffed by sober versions of this passenger, or his progeny. Why? A government department should either take security seriously or admit they are just window dressing. The DfT are doing neither. Besides, this happened on an inbound flight to the UK so local law takes precedent.
PM
The Department for Transport and Security are part of the problem, certainly in the UK. Fortunately, they have little to do with an an aircraft in flight. I'm sure they are staffed by sober versions of this passenger, or his progeny. Why? A government department should either take security seriously or admit they are just window dressing. The DfT are doing neither. Besides, this happened on an inbound flight to the UK so local law takes precedent.
The Department for Transport and Security are part of the problem, certainly in the UK. Fortunately, they have little to do with an an aircraft in flight.
Just as a minor point of order, they're called the Department for Transport by the way. No such thing as the Department for Transport and Security.
Besides, this happened on an inbound flight to the UK so local law takes precedent.
Thread Starter
I am going to write to the airline as I think the seriousness of this incident warrants it.
I agree that the DofT&S is a bit of a paper tiger as I have had numerous dealings with them before. However, they do look at trends and behaviour.
I have no doubt that the majority of these incidents are dealt with quickly and professionally, in fact this one was in the end.
However, the error made caused considerable distress to a lot of passengers (myself included) and could (and should) have been avoided.
I agree that the DofT&S is a bit of a paper tiger as I have had numerous dealings with them before. However, they do look at trends and behaviour.
I have no doubt that the majority of these incidents are dealt with quickly and professionally, in fact this one was in the end.
However, the error made caused considerable distress to a lot of passengers (myself included) and could (and should) have been avoided.
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Wyler - Obviously you play this one as you see fit but I'll suggest that this will generate a local wrap over the knuckles, if that hasn't already been done. And that will achieve little. Your reply will be something like, "We take matters like this very seriously and have already put measures in place to prevent re-occurrence. Thank for for flying..." But more importantly, I wouldn't hold my breath for changes at the outstation, which is where the problem originated. That requires considerably more effort and a few delayed flights to get the message that drunk passengers will not be accepted. My own airline's figures are that we have a dozen or so incidents like this every year whilst in the same period operating 100,000 flights. The problem with obnoxious people is that airports want to get rid of them and that means putting them on the first flight out!
The CAA's opinion regarding disruptive behaviour is here. And these are the guys who may put the boot in.
Laarbruch - you are absolutely correct about the title of DfT. My point was that they have little to do with an aircraft outside UK airspace. Inside UK airspace, they are more concerned with those on the ground - at the expense of those in the air! They also cannot control boarding outside the UK - that is in local hands and subject to local law. They might be able to stipulate what is acceptable when on board a UK registered aircraft. But being realistic, that is more to do with the carrier, the cabin crew and their agent. Furthermore, they appear to have done little to deter threats to air navigation. Over the years they have basically copied the US, placed ridiculous constraints on the travelling public and airline employees and totally ignored the real security of aircraft and those on board. For example, not once in all the time I have been flying have they ever implemented a control for our safety. You read about the threat in the "red tops", have a report on the TV and then get an ill-considered knee-jerk reaction for the DfT. And given that they have several hundred (or is is thousand) employees, I also don't consider that represents good value for money. They can do much better than that!
In flight, the ANO (plus Tokyo Convention in this case) then takes precedence, which is again subject to the laws of the country being overflown. Again, not the DfT.
PM
The CAA's opinion regarding disruptive behaviour is here. And these are the guys who may put the boot in.
Laarbruch - you are absolutely correct about the title of DfT. My point was that they have little to do with an aircraft outside UK airspace. Inside UK airspace, they are more concerned with those on the ground - at the expense of those in the air! They also cannot control boarding outside the UK - that is in local hands and subject to local law. They might be able to stipulate what is acceptable when on board a UK registered aircraft. But being realistic, that is more to do with the carrier, the cabin crew and their agent. Furthermore, they appear to have done little to deter threats to air navigation. Over the years they have basically copied the US, placed ridiculous constraints on the travelling public and airline employees and totally ignored the real security of aircraft and those on board. For example, not once in all the time I have been flying have they ever implemented a control for our safety. You read about the threat in the "red tops", have a report on the TV and then get an ill-considered knee-jerk reaction for the DfT. And given that they have several hundred (or is is thousand) employees, I also don't consider that represents good value for money. They can do much better than that!
In flight, the ANO (plus Tokyo Convention in this case) then takes precedence, which is again subject to the laws of the country being overflown. Again, not the DfT.
PM
