troublesome PAX and doors in flight
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troublesome PAX and doors in flight
hi all,
a slightly off the wall question prompted by a recent discussion betwix self and a mate at work.
He'd recently come back off hols and whilst cloud dodging, one of the numpties down the back was having a fannyfit, nissed as a pewt, tried to get the door open. As usual the CC seemingly did their bit and the jet was diverted etc etc.
Me being me and having a few PAX hours under my belt, I think we should leave these berks to it, or better still hit em with something heavy, as I worked out a bit back with approx pressures of external (4-5psi) and internal pressures (8psi), multiplied over say a 5 by 3ft door, I reckon that theres about 4 tons of pressure holding that door shut at usual cruise alts. surely the handle would break long before the door moved?
So, the question is: if my basic calcs are anywhere near right and its physically impossible for a human to open a plug door in flight, apart from the disruption factor, which admittedly could unnerve quite a few people, would any harm actually come about if such berks were just left alone to tire themselves out? and do any of you Profs have any thoughts etc on it?
answer, abuse etc...
Phil
a slightly off the wall question prompted by a recent discussion betwix self and a mate at work.
He'd recently come back off hols and whilst cloud dodging, one of the numpties down the back was having a fannyfit, nissed as a pewt, tried to get the door open. As usual the CC seemingly did their bit and the jet was diverted etc etc.
Me being me and having a few PAX hours under my belt, I think we should leave these berks to it, or better still hit em with something heavy, as I worked out a bit back with approx pressures of external (4-5psi) and internal pressures (8psi), multiplied over say a 5 by 3ft door, I reckon that theres about 4 tons of pressure holding that door shut at usual cruise alts. surely the handle would break long before the door moved?
So, the question is: if my basic calcs are anywhere near right and its physically impossible for a human to open a plug door in flight, apart from the disruption factor, which admittedly could unnerve quite a few people, would any harm actually come about if such berks were just left alone to tire themselves out? and do any of you Profs have any thoughts etc on it?
answer, abuse etc...
Phil
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Well no, the door wouldn't open. But that's not the point, the person is actively attempting to endanger the aircraft, himself, his fellow passengers and crew. Someone with that mentality needs to be stopped, otherwise they may move from trying to open the door onto something that really could cause harm.
Not to mention (or underestimate) the effects it has on other passengers, who would definitely not want to fly with your airline again if you sat and did nothing. And if I were the Captain onboard I'd want you to do something about it.
Not to mention (or underestimate) the effects it has on other passengers, who would definitely not want to fly with your airline again if you sat and did nothing. And if I were the Captain onboard I'd want you to do something about it.
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hmm much as i thought. agreed that its an untenable situation without doubt, and yes it would need resolving ASAP, although i dont think these people intentionally try or intend to endanger anyone but obviously their mental faculties are sufficiently impaired at that point that logical thought and reasoning is beyond them. Guess that brings us back to the heavy object again ;-)
You guys an gals have your work cut out at times.
cheers
Phil
You guys an gals have your work cut out at times.
cheers
Phil
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There's probably good money for someone who invents a door device that lets these cretins get sucked out at 37,000 feet and then reseals itself without harming anyone else on board!
There's probably good money for someone who invents a door device that lets these cretins get sucked out at 37,000 feet and then reseals itself without harming anyone else on board!
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Now, of course, I would say this... But, I am of of the nicest, most caring, friendly, helpful, polite and respectful people you would ever want to have looking after you onboard an aircraft... But... In the right (or read possibly wrong...) situation, you would not want to cross me.
Of course, different people need to be approached differently and this also applies to this situation. For example, if someone has a mental health problem or learning difficulties, this needs to be approached in a different way than someone who is doing it because they are intoxicated.
I will never forget during my initial training some years ago, during our Aviation Security and Hijack training, the inference as to what would be expected of us in protecting the flight deck from an attempted breach, and the lengths we would be expected to go to and how to use different items that were available to us within the cabin environment to accomplish this.
I do consider myself to be rather good at cuffing, and do look forward to that part of the recurrent training every year... I am not sure what the reason for that is though...
Of course, different people need to be approached differently and this also applies to this situation. For example, if someone has a mental health problem or learning difficulties, this needs to be approached in a different way than someone who is doing it because they are intoxicated.
I will never forget during my initial training some years ago, during our Aviation Security and Hijack training, the inference as to what would be expected of us in protecting the flight deck from an attempted breach, and the lengths we would be expected to go to and how to use different items that were available to us within the cabin environment to accomplish this.
I do consider myself to be rather good at cuffing, and do look forward to that part of the recurrent training every year... I am not sure what the reason for that is though...
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I do consider myself to be rather good at cuffing, and do look forward to that part of the recurrent training every year...
HTC
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There should be a warning sticker on the door much like ones used on the emergency cord on a train stating that sever penalties apply for misuse, then legislated in the terms and conditions of the airline ticket.
You already got their personal details.
You already got their personal details.
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I remember a similar situation flying out of LHR as SLF on an Arab carrier a few years back. A young Arab guy in transit from the U.S. was obviously high on uppers and running around the cabin during taxying.
I was concerned that CC were remaining in their seats and doing nothing however then a large gentleman who I later understood to be a Sky Marshall, appeared from the front of the aircraft, grabbed the young man, dragged him into the rear galley and , judging by the screams and other sounds of violence, gave him a jolly good thumping! While this wasn't pleasant to witness, it certainly worked and there was no further trouble from the perpetrator.
I was concerned that CC were remaining in their seats and doing nothing however then a large gentleman who I later understood to be a Sky Marshall, appeared from the front of the aircraft, grabbed the young man, dragged him into the rear galley and , judging by the screams and other sounds of violence, gave him a jolly good thumping! While this wasn't pleasant to witness, it certainly worked and there was no further trouble from the perpetrator.
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There's probably good money for someone who invents a door device that lets these cretins get sucked out at 37,000 feet and then reseals itself without harming anyone else on board!
) I do see a potential issue with occasionally landing with less crew than we started with though....
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The pressurisation system will increase and decrease the cabin altitude during the climb and descent. In the cruise it's typically 7-8 psi, so there's no chance of opening a door, the mechanism will break first. However, during the initial climb out and final approach segment, if a pax was to jump out of their seat and attempt to open the door, then it would probably open (fall in only). I only know of the forward doors opening forward, (can't think of the aft doors?) so you would have to battle airflow, which I would say at 200kts+ would make it impossible to push out.
On some aircraft it's possible to crack the door to a halfopen position (designed for smoke evacuation) using retention strap but I'd guess you'd be hard pressed to get it fully open for reasons given above...
As for overwing exits (Type III) there's a flight lock that will engage over a certain speed (usually at thecstart of the takeoff roll so drunky mcdrunk can't decide they want out that way either...
As for overwing exits (Type III) there's a flight lock that will engage over a certain speed (usually at thecstart of the takeoff roll so drunky mcdrunk can't decide they want out that way either...
