Exit Row Seating Restictions
Thread Starter
Exit Row Seating Restictions
Having many seat hours behind me 
I have experience with the FA intrepretations of "willing and able"
SW, which I occasional fly, takes it up a step (not quibbling here) if they were to notice that you are unable to lift your carry-on into an overhead then you have to sit elsewhere
But today on SW 1 they astounded me by stating that they noticed I was wearing hearing aides and that by doing so it would mean I couldn't sit in an exit row. I immediately took them off and sat down in the exit row since I now was in compliance with what they stated was an FAA rule.
It was a quiet uneventful flight after that
I have experience with the FA intrepretations of "willing and able"
SW, which I occasional fly, takes it up a step (not quibbling here) if they were to notice that you are unable to lift your carry-on into an overhead then you have to sit elsewhere
But today on SW 1 they astounded me by stating that they noticed I was wearing hearing aides and that by doing so it would mean I couldn't sit in an exit row. I immediately took them off and sat down in the exit row since I now was in compliance with what they stated was an FAA rule.
It was a quiet uneventful flight after that
Moderator
Amazing ...
.. the main problem is that, unless you are able to hear and do the bits ... you will get trampled by the remainder of the pax who know how to open the exit window. He who hesitates .. might die.
.. the main problem is that, unless you are able to hear and do the bits ... you will get trampled by the remainder of the pax who know how to open the exit window. He who hesitates .. might die.
Thread Starter
Yes, but how does another know whether you can hear?
Somewhat similar to those who also wear reading glasses that were my seatmates.
I would be more worried about the 99% who don't read seat backs instructions.
Of course I have been out those emergency overwing doors more than most.
Somewhat similar to those who also wear reading glasses that were my seatmates.
I would be more worried about the 99% who don't read seat backs instructions.
Of course I have been out those emergency overwing doors more than most.
It's a hard one to judge. At my airline we allow passengers to sit at the exit rows with an hearing aid. It's logical as an hearing aid is a correctional tool in the same vein as a pair of glasses yet you would never move a passenger with who wears a pair.
We see glasses in a different light (no pun intended) which is why Hearing, sight or other disability is a no no for exit seating in my manual with a caveat for hearing aids but not for glasses.
I had a difficult call to make just the other week. A young guy walked onboard in shorts. It wasn't until my number 3 informed me that he was sat on the exits that i realised he had a false limb. I had a word and because he walked onboard just like any 'able bodied' passenger with no limp, good pace and without sticks, I was happy to let him sit there. I couldn't see any guidelines in the manual for this scenario.
All that said, maybe the airline in this case doesn't allow passengers with hearing aids to sit there. If so the crew were just doing their job. To take out your hearing aids was just a bit childish (imo) and I definitely wouldn't allow you to sit there.
We see glasses in a different light (no pun intended) which is why Hearing, sight or other disability is a no no for exit seating in my manual with a caveat for hearing aids but not for glasses.
I had a difficult call to make just the other week. A young guy walked onboard in shorts. It wasn't until my number 3 informed me that he was sat on the exits that i realised he had a false limb. I had a word and because he walked onboard just like any 'able bodied' passenger with no limp, good pace and without sticks, I was happy to let him sit there. I couldn't see any guidelines in the manual for this scenario.
All that said, maybe the airline in this case doesn't allow passengers with hearing aids to sit there. If so the crew were just doing their job. To take out your hearing aids was just a bit childish (imo) and I definitely wouldn't allow you to sit there.
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But today on SW 1 they astounded me by stating that they noticed I was
wearing hearing aides and that by doing so it would mean I couldn't sit in an
exit row. I immediately took them off and sat down in the exit row since I now
was in compliance with what they stated was an FAA rule.
I do remove them though if sitting beside the wife
Thread Starter
Ready Willing and Able has always served as the mainstay for judgements in this regard. Ad Hoc interpretations on either side defeat this mainstay.
The experts in Cabin Safety I spoke with had never heard of this.
Sounds to me like any guidelines in this regard ought to be published for the passengers as well as the crew to read.
The experts in Cabin Safety I spoke with had never heard of this.
Sounds to me like any guidelines in this regard ought to be published for the passengers as well as the crew to read.
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In the U.S., the regulatory requirement related to exit row seating is found at 14 CFR 121.585 - Exit seating, which contains the following two elements related to some of the discussion here:
It would seem to me that either the crew misinterpreted their operating manual or the operating manual is more restrictive than the regulatory requirement. Then, of course, there is always 14 CFR 382 - Nondiscrimination on the Basis of Disability in Air Travel... 
Sec. 121.585 - Exit seating
(b) No certificate holder may seat a person in a seat affected by this section if the certificate holder determines that it is likely that the person would be unable to perform one or more of the applicable functions listed in paragraph (d) of this section because--
...
(4) The person lacks sufficient visual capacity to perform one or more of the applicable functions in paragraph (d) of this section without the assistance of visual aids beyond contact lenses or eyeglasses;
(5) The person lacks sufficient aural capacity to hear and understand instructions shouted by flight attendants, without assistance beyond a hearing aid;
...
Full text of 121.585 here...
(b) No certificate holder may seat a person in a seat affected by this section if the certificate holder determines that it is likely that the person would be unable to perform one or more of the applicable functions listed in paragraph (d) of this section because--
...
(4) The person lacks sufficient visual capacity to perform one or more of the applicable functions in paragraph (d) of this section without the assistance of visual aids beyond contact lenses or eyeglasses;
(5) The person lacks sufficient aural capacity to hear and understand instructions shouted by flight attendants, without assistance beyond a hearing aid;
...
Full text of 121.585 here...
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I brief pax clearly and loudly on their responsibilities. This is a chance to gauge if they can hear and understand. If they can't then I politely find them alternative seating. I ask "do you understand" and "do you have any questions". If there's no response then I ask again to be sure. If people are wearing hearing aids it's not a problem so long as they can hear and listen to my instructions. We don't ask the "able and willing" question. I also see how people react when I say "your bag needs to be in the overhead now". If nothing happens or I get a blank look then I investigate. Its very much a case of using my discretion and there are several occasions every moth where I need to reseat people else where. It can be uncomfortable and most passengers understand but then you get te ones who just don't care about other peoples safety and insist they must sit at an exit due to *insert medical condition here* and have to be quite forceful, especially to the ones who insist that they need to sit at an exit and must have their crutches down with them at all times.
Last edited by fa2fi; 18th Sep 2012 at 19:29.
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I also see how people react when I say "your bag needs to be in the overhead now"
my bag under the seat in front when the FA rudely told me to remove my damn bag;At time I thought se was kind of dull and frigid
but looks like I was wrong
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With apologies for some thread drift but safety related and the oversized pax thread being closed.
I recently flew BIO to TFS with pre-booked seats 2D and 2F (I prefer aisle, wife prefers window). On boarding we found seats 2D and 2E occupied by a large young lady with the armrests up.
There was a short conversation with CC after which we were moved to adjacent aisle seats in Row 14. The conversation was short to avoid unnecessary embarrassment to the girl who was travelling with three other family members occupying 2A,B and C. For the same reason I didn't dig out the paperwork to show the CC our seats were prebooked and prepaid, not a fortune involved.
I'd appreciate advice on how to proceed from professional CC on here should a similar situation arise on the return journey. Suppose eg there was no empty seat on the aircraft to move to?
I recently flew BIO to TFS with pre-booked seats 2D and 2F (I prefer aisle, wife prefers window). On boarding we found seats 2D and 2E occupied by a large young lady with the armrests up.
There was a short conversation with CC after which we were moved to adjacent aisle seats in Row 14. The conversation was short to avoid unnecessary embarrassment to the girl who was travelling with three other family members occupying 2A,B and C. For the same reason I didn't dig out the paperwork to show the CC our seats were prebooked and prepaid, not a fortune involved.
I'd appreciate advice on how to proceed from professional CC on here should a similar situation arise on the return journey. Suppose eg there was no empty seat on the aircraft to move to?
Last edited by Shack37; 20th Sep 2012 at 16:41.
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Sorry to read about your unpleasant experience Lomo. Looks to me CD has given the definitive answer. Perhaps it´s worth your trouble to get in touch with SW and save the e-mail hard copy for next time you fly them?
Shack, there´s is no answer that covers all airlines.
This is an informative article to start off with.
My airline has a policy for passengers of size. Buy two seats, get part of the second seat refunded if the aircraft´s not full in your section.
Ground staff NEVER enforces it. Check-in 'doesn´t notice' that a pax is obese. And for those who check in online, gate staff checking boarding cards and passports clearly suffers from the same visual impairment.
So we´re left to deal with the growing problem on board.
For which we have again a policy.
If there are empty seats in the same class, reseat other pax so the obese one gets two seats. If no empty seats in the same class, find a frequent flyer and upgrade him or her to create a spare seat for the obese passenger.
If all sections are full, off load the obese person. Be very discrete about it all.
That´s the official policies.
Unofficially, we know it´s very iffy to off load any large body in the USA, or any large US pax wherever in the world. Cause they´ll sue the sox off the airline, blaming everybody but themselves for being too large to fit in an normal seat.
Never mind the fact that they hugely inconvenience their neighbours by overflowing their own seats. And then of course there is also the tiny matter of once you off load a pax, you need to search for their luggage in the hold and off load that as well. Causing an inevitable delay for 300+ other people, at least half of whom will subsequently miss their connecting flight. Thereby missing the funeral / wedding / birth of child / business meeting / grand child´s birthday party / cruise / graduation or whatever else was the purpose of their trip.
Catch22 anybody?
The more I have to deal with this, the more it annoys me.
It´s anybody´s right to be obese. But why oh why do others have to suffer for it?
And why the heck am I regularly placed in the exceedingly uncomfortable position of the Shrew from Hell trying to deal in a customer friendly manner with problems created by inconsiderate, unthinking, chip-on-their-shoulder obese people?
And don´t get me started on the skinny unwashed & stinky. Smelling so bad that the pax around them start crying, choking and loudly wailing about refusing to travel for x-many hours of long haul cooped up in close proximity with somebody emitting the pungent odour of old sweat on an unwashed body and ditto clothes!
And of course it´s my job to give the ponger the happy news.
However discrete I do it, however carefully I phrase it, and covertly offer soap, deo and on occasion even my own clean shirt out of my flight bag, I always bløødy end up being blamed. For THEIR self-caused embarrassment.
<I shall now have a calming glass of single malt and read a soothingly bland book >
Shack, there´s is no answer that covers all airlines.
This is an informative article to start off with.
My airline has a policy for passengers of size. Buy two seats, get part of the second seat refunded if the aircraft´s not full in your section.
Ground staff NEVER enforces it. Check-in 'doesn´t notice' that a pax is obese. And for those who check in online, gate staff checking boarding cards and passports clearly suffers from the same visual impairment.
So we´re left to deal with the growing problem on board.
For which we have again a policy.
If there are empty seats in the same class, reseat other pax so the obese one gets two seats. If no empty seats in the same class, find a frequent flyer and upgrade him or her to create a spare seat for the obese passenger.
If all sections are full, off load the obese person. Be very discrete about it all.
That´s the official policies.
Unofficially, we know it´s very iffy to off load any large body in the USA, or any large US pax wherever in the world. Cause they´ll sue the sox off the airline, blaming everybody but themselves for being too large to fit in an normal seat.
Never mind the fact that they hugely inconvenience their neighbours by overflowing their own seats. And then of course there is also the tiny matter of once you off load a pax, you need to search for their luggage in the hold and off load that as well. Causing an inevitable delay for 300+ other people, at least half of whom will subsequently miss their connecting flight. Thereby missing the funeral / wedding / birth of child / business meeting / grand child´s birthday party / cruise / graduation or whatever else was the purpose of their trip.
Catch22 anybody?
The more I have to deal with this, the more it annoys me.
It´s anybody´s right to be obese. But why oh why do others have to suffer for it?
And why the heck am I regularly placed in the exceedingly uncomfortable position of the Shrew from Hell trying to deal in a customer friendly manner with problems created by inconsiderate, unthinking, chip-on-their-shoulder obese people?
And don´t get me started on the skinny unwashed & stinky. Smelling so bad that the pax around them start crying, choking and loudly wailing about refusing to travel for x-many hours of long haul cooped up in close proximity with somebody emitting the pungent odour of old sweat on an unwashed body and ditto clothes!
And of course it´s my job to give the ponger the happy news.
However discrete I do it, however carefully I phrase it, and covertly offer soap, deo and on occasion even my own clean shirt out of my flight bag, I always bløødy end up being blamed. For THEIR self-caused embarrassment.
<I shall now have a calming glass of single malt and read a soothingly bland book
>
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Juud,
Many thanks for the link and taking the time to reply so comprehensively. In this instance I don't think blame can be apportioned at check-in and certainly not to CC. Four persons were checked in together ABC&E probably without check-in staff being aware who was seated where, so seeing D&F pre assigned probably didn't ring any alarm bells.
There was a body odour element but it was a very hot day so perhaps not a lack of personal hygiene was to blame.
Fingers crossed for the inbound.
May your single malt have the desired effect.
Many thanks for the link and taking the time to reply so comprehensively. In this instance I don't think blame can be apportioned at check-in and certainly not to CC. Four persons were checked in together ABC&E probably without check-in staff being aware who was seated where, so seeing D&F pre assigned probably didn't ring any alarm bells.
There was a body odour element but it was a very hot day so perhaps not a lack of personal hygiene was to blame.
Fingers crossed for the inbound.
May your single malt have the desired effect.
