Over-reliance on English language
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Over-reliance on English language
(I'm not cabin crew, but thought this was the best place to post this. Mods, please feel free to move it if necessary...)
Last week I flew from Pisa to Gatwick on Easyjet. I noticed that none of the cabin crew had the little flag on their name tags indicating that they spoke Italian. This reminded me of last year when I flew from Naples to Gatwick on BA, none of the cabin crew spoke Italian. Some Italian passengers gave up trying to buy goods from the trolley as they were unable to make themselves understood when they had questions. No great disaster in this case, but would the difficulty in communication not be a potential problem in an emergency situation?
This isn't a criticism of the cabin crew themselves (I don't expect every BA cabin crew to speak the language of every country in their network), but of the organisation of the airlines. Surely a global airline like BA should be able to ensure that at the very least one CC member speaks the language of the destination (especially a major European language like Italian)? The BA & Easyjet Gatwick bases operate to several Italian destinations so it should be worthwhile having an operable number of Italian speakers on staff.
On a slightly separate note, while checking in at Pisa last week, the screens above the Easyjet desks were marked 'Check-in' and 'baggage drop' (in English). The only word of Italian on the screen was the word 'volo' next to the flight number. Needless to say, Italian customers were queuing in both lines regardless of whether they were checking in or dropping bags (can't blame them) . I appreciate that English is the closest thing we have to an international language, but there are millions of people out there who dont speak it.
(There is also the question of simple respect... Is it really good customer service that an Italian needs to be able to speak English to easily get on a plane in his / her own country...)
Last week I flew from Pisa to Gatwick on Easyjet. I noticed that none of the cabin crew had the little flag on their name tags indicating that they spoke Italian. This reminded me of last year when I flew from Naples to Gatwick on BA, none of the cabin crew spoke Italian. Some Italian passengers gave up trying to buy goods from the trolley as they were unable to make themselves understood when they had questions. No great disaster in this case, but would the difficulty in communication not be a potential problem in an emergency situation?
This isn't a criticism of the cabin crew themselves (I don't expect every BA cabin crew to speak the language of every country in their network), but of the organisation of the airlines. Surely a global airline like BA should be able to ensure that at the very least one CC member speaks the language of the destination (especially a major European language like Italian)? The BA & Easyjet Gatwick bases operate to several Italian destinations so it should be worthwhile having an operable number of Italian speakers on staff.
On a slightly separate note, while checking in at Pisa last week, the screens above the Easyjet desks were marked 'Check-in' and 'baggage drop' (in English). The only word of Italian on the screen was the word 'volo' next to the flight number. Needless to say, Italian customers were queuing in both lines regardless of whether they were checking in or dropping bags (can't blame them) . I appreciate that English is the closest thing we have to an international language, but there are millions of people out there who dont speak it.
(There is also the question of simple respect... Is it really good customer service that an Italian needs to be able to speak English to easily get on a plane in his / her own country...)
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Well jensdad, here's my take on your question. Roughly a decade ago BA decided to only recruit staff with a second language; the recruitment team advertised in all the major European destinations to find linguists. Once they all started work however we discovered a problem. Those 300 crew who spoke say Italian were not really wanting to spend their whole career operating to places that they already knew, they wanted (unsurprisingly) to see the world. So after a few months on Eurofleet, they applied to transfer to Worldwide. So it is that, on a flight to HKG you could well have a fluent Italian speaker, a native Spaniard and some conversational French and German but the flight to Rome has a Punjabi speaker and someone who can 'sign'. Add to that the different cost of living in each country and a Turkish speaker would earn significantly less than a German speaker.
For some longhaul routes we get around the problem by employing ICC crew who are based say in Japan, China, India, etc and just shuttle back and forth to their native land. As they are employed on that basis they can't transfer off of the route. Having crew based all over the world though to supply every single language would be both expensive and a logistical nightmare. In an ideal world we cabin crew would all speak half a dozen languages but since we don't we tend to get by on gesticulating and when really stuck by appealing to bilingual passengers. Luckily enough for us in the UK the accepted language for aviation is English.
Ottergirl
For some longhaul routes we get around the problem by employing ICC crew who are based say in Japan, China, India, etc and just shuttle back and forth to their native land. As they are employed on that basis they can't transfer off of the route. Having crew based all over the world though to supply every single language would be both expensive and a logistical nightmare. In an ideal world we cabin crew would all speak half a dozen languages but since we don't we tend to get by on gesticulating and when really stuck by appealing to bilingual passengers. Luckily enough for us in the UK the accepted language for aviation is English.
Ottergirl
Last edited by ottergirl; 17th Jan 2012 at 13:06. Reason: dodgy spelling
As otter girl has so clearly stated BA have tried very hard to accommodate languages but the logistics of this are almost impossible.
In the good old days on Longhaul cabin crew who spoke French found themselves being rostered endless Montreal trips and in the end withdrew their 'flag'.
In Europe the crew will operate more than one flight per day as a crew on the first part to, say Frankfurt, they may have a German speaker but the next part is Pisa so maybe no Italian.
All airlines in UK will have the same problems and I bet when Alitalia fly to Sweden they don't always have a Swedish speaker!
In the good old days on Longhaul cabin crew who spoke French found themselves being rostered endless Montreal trips and in the end withdrew their 'flag'.
In Europe the crew will operate more than one flight per day as a crew on the first part to, say Frankfurt, they may have a German speaker but the next part is Pisa so maybe no Italian.
All airlines in UK will have the same problems and I bet when Alitalia fly to Sweden they don't always have a Swedish speaker!
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I flew MAD - AMS on Iberia, and happened to sit opposite a crew member on a jump seat. She spoke no English beyond the ability to read the announcements, so I asked her,if she spoke Dutch, as it was an AMS flight. 'No', she said. So I asked her what her second language was, and she said 'English' .
'Hang on' ... I said, 'you told me you don't speak English.'
"Yes' she said : "Ees true, but the person who do me the test, she speak more bad English than me.....'
'Hang on' ... I said, 'you told me you don't speak English.'
"Yes' she said : "Ees true, but the person who do me the test, she speak more bad English than me.....'
In the good old days on Longhaul cabin crew who spoke French found themselves being rostered endless Montreal trips and in the end withdrew their 'flag'.
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I fly frequently on Easyjet out of Milan, to Brussels, Paris, Berlin, London, Barcelona etc. On private as well as on business trips even though my employer would not mind my taking major airlines at much higher rates.
I particularly enjoy the cabin crews who are efficient, professional, very friendly and often fun. On all my flights, I noticed that there was always at least one cc in the front and one in the back speaking the languages of origin and destination of the flights.
And I once witnessed something that really tells a lot on the working atmosphere at EZ: boarding a flight from Mxp to Brussels coming from Berlin, an EZ captain travelling as SLF, coming complete with tanned face, four stripes and a big watch stopped in the cockpit to say hi to his pals. He then introduced himself to the German senior cc before going to take a sit in the back. " Oh you're Italian" she said in English, " I'm not too good in Italian, can I call on you if I need a translator?" . "yes of course" replied the big man without any hesitation. I don't know if I would have seen the same friendly, easygoing (excuse the pun) and helpful attitude between crew members of another airline.
I particularly enjoy the cabin crews who are efficient, professional, very friendly and often fun. On all my flights, I noticed that there was always at least one cc in the front and one in the back speaking the languages of origin and destination of the flights.
And I once witnessed something that really tells a lot on the working atmosphere at EZ: boarding a flight from Mxp to Brussels coming from Berlin, an EZ captain travelling as SLF, coming complete with tanned face, four stripes and a big watch stopped in the cockpit to say hi to his pals. He then introduced himself to the German senior cc before going to take a sit in the back. " Oh you're Italian" she said in English, " I'm not too good in Italian, can I call on you if I need a translator?" . "yes of course" replied the big man without any hesitation. I don't know if I would have seen the same friendly, easygoing (excuse the pun) and helpful attitude between crew members of another airline.
Airlines, including EZY, still value additional languages. Actually rostering them onto relavant flights however is just not feasible. As someone has already mentioned, 4 sector days often take in different countries plus there is additional cost in rostering flights that way in that individual crew members become inflexible.
Also, despite nightstops being few and far between at most EZY bases there is still often a preference on the types of routes crew fly and this is usually, but not exclusively, associated with how lucrative they are both in sector pay and commission. As a result some crew would be left with routes they didn't necassarilly want whilst also potentially being out of pocket.
That said there are plenty of foreign speakers right across the UK network who i'm sure probably see fairly frequent service to destinations where their language can be put to good use whilst those crew based in CDG, ORY, LYS, MAD, BSL, GVA, SXF, MXP, FCO and soon LIS, do have to speak English plus the language of their home base.
Also, despite nightstops being few and far between at most EZY bases there is still often a preference on the types of routes crew fly and this is usually, but not exclusively, associated with how lucrative they are both in sector pay and commission. As a result some crew would be left with routes they didn't necassarilly want whilst also potentially being out of pocket.
That said there are plenty of foreign speakers right across the UK network who i'm sure probably see fairly frequent service to destinations where their language can be put to good use whilst those crew based in CDG, ORY, LYS, MAD, BSL, GVA, SXF, MXP, FCO and soon LIS, do have to speak English plus the language of their home base.
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Quoting yggorf: I particularly enjoy the cabin crews who are efficient, professional, very friendly and often fun.
I totally agree. As I mentioned, I dont mean to have a go at the Cabin crew on the airlines I mentioned. I'm not a regular flyer, just about 3 or 4 times a year. Maybe the experiences I mentioned weren't representative.
Thanks to all for your perspective. With regard to the lack of Italian on the display screens at the check-in desks (ie. the part of my post that isnt relevant to this forum
), I do think that this could be easily sorted by the airlines. Maybe because of the standard use of English in the aviation industry, management of airlines think that they don't need to cater for the old lady who is visiting her son in London once a year.
(again, any criticism in this post is directed at the management of the companies, not you guys in cabin crew
)
I totally agree. As I mentioned, I dont mean to have a go at the Cabin crew on the airlines I mentioned. I'm not a regular flyer, just about 3 or 4 times a year. Maybe the experiences I mentioned weren't representative.
Thanks to all for your perspective. With regard to the lack of Italian on the display screens at the check-in desks (ie. the part of my post that isnt relevant to this forum
), I do think that this could be easily sorted by the airlines. Maybe because of the standard use of English in the aviation industry, management of airlines think that they don't need to cater for the old lady who is visiting her son in London once a year.(again, any criticism in this post is directed at the management of the companies, not you guys in cabin crew
)
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I fly a lot on easyJet. One of the reasons I do so is because I enjoy the friendly and yet professional attitude of the staff. They are not always the cheapest but are often the best choice on many routes.
Actually the most spoken first language in Europe is Russian, about 132m in European Russia and native Russian speakers in Belarus and Ukraine (there are another 30m in Asian Russia), plus sizeable groups in Latvia, etc, whereas Germany, Austria, and the German-speaking part of Switzerland are about 95m total.
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Not quite sure what you are trying to imply here.
I don't need your sympathy, but what is the point that you think I SOOOO completely missed (if you have to use that teenage writing style in an attempt to convey your point)?
Why is it 'perfect'?
Why would I 'make up' a dialogue to reply to the thread?
In case you missed it, the point I was making is that this particular crew member spoke neither Dutch nor English. The announcements were made in Spanish and Spanglish and were almost unintelligible.
That is at variance with my observations, based on many IB flights, that most of their crews have little no more than rudimentary knowledge of any language other than Spanish. BA on the other hand tend to employ cabin crew proficient on the languages of the route operated and usually several others.
Which, in your view, is what?
Not quite sure what you are trying to imply here.
I feel sorry for you, you SOOOO completely missed the point made by jensdad..
And "I flew MAD - AMS on Iberia"? So perfect hey!? Looks like you made it up (including the dialogue with the FA) in order to reply this thread, just saying...
Why would I 'make up' a dialogue to reply to the thread?
In case you missed it, the point I was making is that this particular crew member spoke neither Dutch nor English. The announcements were made in Spanish and Spanglish and were almost unintelligible.
Iberia very obviously makes more efforts concerning foreigner languages than BA!
Jensdad has a point.
Recently I flew BHX / FRA using LH, on a flight operated by bmi.
There was just one cabin crew member who spoke German, and even to my (english) ear her German wasn't up to the mark - the safety announcement was barely intelligable, the pronounciation was so bad.
Surely Lufthansa would expect better.
On the otherhand, it is amazing to hear UK (British) KLM cabin crew speaking Dutch so fluently.
We British need to start learning European languages, not just to work as CC, but also to help UK plc export!
There was just one cabin crew member who spoke German, and even to my (english) ear her German wasn't up to the mark - the safety announcement was barely intelligable, the pronounciation was so bad.
Surely Lufthansa would expect better.
On the otherhand, it is amazing to hear UK (British) KLM cabin crew speaking Dutch so fluently.
We British need to start learning European languages, not just to work as CC, but also to help UK plc export!
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Too many anecdotes, not enough safety
That certainly is my reaction to this thread.
I remember that I fairly recently raised the issue on part of these boards of what if any EU rules exist to oblige airlines to roster cabin crews who are able to express themselves in the languages of the arrival and destinations towns of the flight.
The answer was "none."
Apart from issues of lack of commission from trolleys, of 50p per week as a bonus or of dinky little flags, not to mention the aimiabilty of cabin crew on this named airline or on that, the concept of an emergency in these anarchic conditions does not bear thinking about.
Presumably, as always, this will be rectified in the future; after some (many many ?) poor blighters have died or been maimed for this basic reason.
And to think that today in the UK the Prime Minister gave a speech about responsible and compassionate capitalism. Not much sign of that in the under-regulated dog eat dog airline business we currently have.
I remember that I fairly recently raised the issue on part of these boards of what if any EU rules exist to oblige airlines to roster cabin crews who are able to express themselves in the languages of the arrival and destinations towns of the flight.
The answer was "none."
Apart from issues of lack of commission from trolleys, of 50p per week as a bonus or of dinky little flags, not to mention the aimiabilty of cabin crew on this named airline or on that, the concept of an emergency in these anarchic conditions does not bear thinking about.
Presumably, as always, this will be rectified in the future; after some (many many ?) poor blighters have died or been maimed for this basic reason.
And to think that today in the UK the Prime Minister gave a speech about responsible and compassionate capitalism. Not much sign of that in the under-regulated dog eat dog airline business we currently have.
Last edited by BigFrank; 19th Jan 2012 at 20:38. Reason: Alter typeface
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Things have certainly changed. in the 1970's I took a flight on JAL (my first on a 747) which was routed HRW, CPH, ANC and on to Tokyo. All announcements were made in the laguage of: the departure airport/ the arrival airport and (of course) Japanese. So on the first two legs we were treated to English, Danish and Japanese. I deplaned at Anchorage but I assume that Danish was dropped from then on.
More recently I found the French airlines notable for the non-use of English, (No surprise there then).
More recently I found the French airlines notable for the non-use of English, (No surprise there then).
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Yes Indeed Easyjet are good
Yes, I agree from what I have heard that Easyjet are a very good airline - also Aer Lingus - coming back to DUB from MAN to see family (I live & work in MAN) it is a joy to hear my Native Irish Gaelic on the flight back xxxxx
That certainly is my reaction to this thread.
I remember that I fairly recently raised the issue on part of these boards of what if any EU rules exist to oblige airlines to roster cabin crews who are able to express themselves in the languages of the arrival and destinations towns of the flight.
The answer was "none."
Apart from issues of lack of commission from trolleys, of 50p per week as a bonus or of dinky little flags, not to mention the aimiabilty of cabin crew on this named airline or on that, the concept of an emergency in these anarchic conditions does not bear thinking about.
Presumably, as always, this will be rectified in the future; after some (many many ?) poor blighters have died or been maimed for this basic reason.
And to think that today in the UK the Prime Minister gave a speech about responsible and compassionate capitalism. Not much sign of that in the under-regulated dog eat dog airline business we currently have.
I remember that I fairly recently raised the issue on part of these boards of what if any EU rules exist to oblige airlines to roster cabin crews who are able to express themselves in the languages of the arrival and destinations towns of the flight.
The answer was "none."
Apart from issues of lack of commission from trolleys, of 50p per week as a bonus or of dinky little flags, not to mention the aimiabilty of cabin crew on this named airline or on that, the concept of an emergency in these anarchic conditions does not bear thinking about.
Presumably, as always, this will be rectified in the future; after some (many many ?) poor blighters have died or been maimed for this basic reason.
And to think that today in the UK the Prime Minister gave a speech about responsible and compassionate capitalism. Not much sign of that in the under-regulated dog eat dog airline business we currently have.
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If you will countenance another comment from SLF, I noticed that on LH planes, there is this list next to the phone receiver for cabin announcements, of which buttons to press for the recorded announcements in various languages. I'm not 100% sure whether it's actually used on all international flights, but this would seem to take care of at least the everyday security needs. Not the G&T of course and probably not an emergency, but that's another matter. Anyway, in an acute emergency, I guess most communication would be simple enough that even accented language skills should suffice.
As for on-ground service, jensdad, shall we amble over to the SLF forum maybe?
As for on-ground service, jensdad, shall we amble over to the SLF forum maybe?
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the concept of an emergency in these anarchic conditions does not bear thinking about
after some (many many ?) poor blighters have died or been maimed for this basic reason