Bad day at the office!
I am curious as to why some of the folks here think it appropriate to attempt to put a pax in prison for being rude to an FA/CC.
What's your rationale?
Likewise, if this is a first offense, I don't see why putting this guy in jail makes any sense if FAA based charges are filed. Fine and probation ought to be sufficient.
Sure seems to be a lot of pitchforks and torches handy these days ...
What's your rationale?
Likewise, if this is a first offense, I don't see why putting this guy in jail makes any sense if FAA based charges are filed. Fine and probation ought to be sufficient.
Sure seems to be a lot of pitchforks and torches handy these days ...
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Johnny767:
I know the revenue comes from the passengers paying to fly with us, obviously. But what I am fed up with is that it has become an explanation for the most irrational of behaviours in our everyday life. A passenger wants to stand up before arriving to the stand, "I pay your wages!", a policeman gives us a parking ticket, "I pay your wages", there is a queue at the hospital, "I pay your wages", the clerk at the bank is too slow, "I pay your wages", the waitress says they've run out of whisky, "I pay your wages!"... C´mon! Everybody pays everyone´s wages, that is market society, for pete´s sake! At the end of the day, if a Vodafone or Sky employee is not happy with their seat and tells me that he "pays my wages", I can always reply that I pay theirs as well!
I know the revenue comes from the passengers paying to fly with us, obviously. But what I am fed up with is that it has become an explanation for the most irrational of behaviours in our everyday life. A passenger wants to stand up before arriving to the stand, "I pay your wages!", a policeman gives us a parking ticket, "I pay your wages", there is a queue at the hospital, "I pay your wages", the clerk at the bank is too slow, "I pay your wages", the waitress says they've run out of whisky, "I pay your wages!"... C´mon! Everybody pays everyone´s wages, that is market society, for pete´s sake! At the end of the day, if a Vodafone or Sky employee is not happy with their seat and tells me that he "pays my wages", I can always reply that I pay theirs as well!
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"I am curious as to why some of the folks here think it appropriate to attempt to put a pax in prison for being rude to an FA/CC."
I don't think anyone's suggesting that this pax be reprimanded because she was rude. Hell, if we did that, we'd be jailing hundreds of pax a day. She defied the lawful command of a crew member who was acting in the interests of safety. In the UK, it says in the Air Navigation Order (the "laws" of the air) that pax should not do so. Therefore she broke the law, ergo she should be held to account.
I don't think anyone's suggesting that this pax be reprimanded because she was rude. Hell, if we did that, we'd be jailing hundreds of pax a day. She defied the lawful command of a crew member who was acting in the interests of safety. In the UK, it says in the Air Navigation Order (the "laws" of the air) that pax should not do so. Therefore she broke the law, ergo she should be held to account.
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Passengers, are Customers [sic] of your Airline [sic]
Just pointing it out (and btw, there is no need to capitalise every other word, unless you're German in which case it might be excused).
Person Of Interest
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Wow...so much to comment on and so little time...
"Why turn this guy into a "hero"?" Why not...remember D.B. Cooper...???
As for the pax, if it was true that she was the one who caused the cut on Slaters head, then that's "interfering with a flight crew member" at the least, and maybe assult or more at the most...prosecution is in order...
And as to keeping the morons in back seated until the seatbelt sign is turned off...peer pressure works best...in the days when we could open the cockpit doors after landing...when they stood, I'd stop;, set the brakes, and make an announcement that until everyone was seated again, we weren't moving, and if the rest of the rule abiding folks want to make their connections, it would be in their best interests to "encourage" their fellow passengers to obey directions...Always worked...
"Why turn this guy into a "hero"?" Why not...remember D.B. Cooper...???
As for the pax, if it was true that she was the one who caused the cut on Slaters head, then that's "interfering with a flight crew member" at the least, and maybe assult or more at the most...prosecution is in order...
And as to keeping the morons in back seated until the seatbelt sign is turned off...peer pressure works best...in the days when we could open the cockpit doors after landing...when they stood, I'd stop;, set the brakes, and make an announcement that until everyone was seated again, we weren't moving, and if the rest of the rule abiding folks want to make their connections, it would be in their best interests to "encourage" their fellow passengers to obey directions...Always worked...
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..and now ABC news is reporting that the police have information that Mr. Slater was drinking prior to the flight.
Steven Slater Backlash? - KDAF
and not ONE passenger or fellow flight attendant has come forth to verify his version of the story..quite the opposite.
What is bizarre about this story at the moment is that this nitwit wants his wings back.
Some passengers dispute jetBlue flight attendant Steven Slater's claim that he was provoked
Of course, just what every passenger wants, a Cabin Crew member that, in the case of an emergency, shoves past saying "I have to take care of myself first Honey".
Steven Slater Backlash? - KDAF
and not ONE passenger or fellow flight attendant has come forth to verify his version of the story..quite the opposite.
What is bizarre about this story at the moment is that this nitwit wants his wings back.
Some passengers dispute jetBlue flight attendant Steven Slater's claim that he was provoked
Of course, just what every passenger wants, a Cabin Crew member that, in the case of an emergency, shoves past saying "I have to take care of myself first Honey".
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All Pitchforks and Torches, you could of killed a groundcrew member aside and just looking at the fundamentals here.....
It is hilarious!!!!!
I think it's great that someone would think f*ck it i'm bailing out and just like that he is gone!! Excellent....
I used to work in an office and if someone annoyed me on the phone etc I would regularly step outside for a breath of air...
Good on this guy for showing the world that we too are human, If I was his CCM I would give him his wings back, his length of service and the fact he has only done this once and showing great restrain in not flooring said passenger should be commended... I am sure he won't do it again, and perhaps passengers on his flight will start showing a little respect, nothing like a little fear to keep the punters in line...
But remember fun police, this story is plain and clear... FUNNY
It is hilarious!!!!!
I think it's great that someone would think f*ck it i'm bailing out and just like that he is gone!! Excellent....
I used to work in an office and if someone annoyed me on the phone etc I would regularly step outside for a breath of air...
Good on this guy for showing the world that we too are human, If I was his CCM I would give him his wings back, his length of service and the fact he has only done this once and showing great restrain in not flooring said passenger should be commended... I am sure he won't do it again, and perhaps passengers on his flight will start showing a little respect, nothing like a little fear to keep the punters in line...
But remember fun police, this story is plain and clear... FUNNY
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The truth is slowly starting to come out. In a plane full of people, not one will corroborate his side of the story. Yes folks, let's all celebrate the drunken idiot flight attendant.
How sad and pathetic is you life to have this moron as your hero.
How sad and pathetic is you life to have this moron as your hero.
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Mr Dough, what remarkable powers of deduction. Being able to conclude anything at all about people´s lives from a few posts on the internet. Impressive.
Yet another witness account; Heather Robinson makes a few interesting points, worth the read.
Same journalist also interviewed another FA for her take on the Slater incident. Yet again an interesting read, with a point of view I suspect many of us here sympathise with.
excerpt:
What he did was clearly wrong, for many different reasons, but how come a person under such personal strain was active crew? And if he himself did not understand that he needed to be off from work, or if he was afraid to call in sick, how come his boss or the airline´s HR department didn´t catch him?
While clearly wrong, the fantasy of doing something like that has an obvious appeal to many of us regularly dealing with people who abuse us for trying to keep them safe.
Abusing us for doing what we have been trained to do, and are by law obliged to do.
Yet another witness account; Heather Robinson makes a few interesting points, worth the read.
I did not feel in any way threatened by Steven Slater's rant, and I didn't take it personally. I was not insulted by it, but amused. I'd rather hear a flight attendant relate to me as a human being-- "F--- you all!"-- than be on the receiving end of phony, passive aggressive politeness. So "F--- you, too, Steven Slater, you lucky Motherf-----! Hope you get a book deal out of this!"
excerpt:
"Most people are really nice," Andie said. "But every once in a while there's someone who takes advantage of the fact that we can't say anything back" during an altercation.
Most altercations between flight attendants and passengers occur when flight attendants are doing their jobs, trying to minimize safety risk to passengers, Andie stressed.
"Most of the arguments happen for things that are for their own safety," she said. "Sometimes pilots hit the brakes hard and people go flying. [In aviation history] passengers have, like, hit ceilings and broken their necks during severe turbulence. That's one of the reasons for the seat belts. Most of the time people get mad over stuff that's for their own good."
Most altercations between flight attendants and passengers occur when flight attendants are doing their jobs, trying to minimize safety risk to passengers, Andie stressed.
"Most of the arguments happen for things that are for their own safety," she said. "Sometimes pilots hit the brakes hard and people go flying. [In aviation history] passengers have, like, hit ceilings and broken their necks during severe turbulence. That's one of the reasons for the seat belts. Most of the time people get mad over stuff that's for their own good."
While clearly wrong, the fantasy of doing something like that has an obvious appeal to many of us regularly dealing with people who abuse us for trying to keep them safe.
Abusing us for doing what we have been trained to do, and are by law obliged to do.
As for the pax, if it was true that she was the one who caused the cut on Slaters head, then that's "interfering with a flight crew member" at the least, and maybe assult or more at the most...prosecution is in order...
... where I saw the witch hunting ....
Cauldron's comment:
Civil suit against the pax is in order I reckon 
Further to this, why was the pax not prosecuted for standing when the belt sign was on? why are they not nailing the pax for endangering the other SLF on the aircraft?
shame the human scum he was dealing with werent arrested too.
IMHO it's a pity the passenger wasn't arrested, since if anyone was indulging in reckless endangerment it was him.
However, I seem to have mixed up in my head the fact that Mister Slater was in jail before he posted bail, and the calls to arrest the pax whose baggage hit him in the head when pax was up and about when pax should have been in seat until plane landed and Slater was trying to enforce that well known rule of air travel ...
There was another thread on this in either Jet Blast or Rumors but no matter.
I fail to see reason for arrest of the pax.
On what grounds?
Someone posted this, and I'd like to see elaboration on felonious standing up get get her kit when she should not have.
Absolutely. Unfortunately, no word yet on the identity or plight of the passenger, who appears to have committed at least one federal felony.
If the FAA or the State of New York have a statute this pax violated, and testimony to support it, then I suggest the defense will have a field day with whomever brings the case. Why? Apparently, and we have only the media to rely on at the moment, so big grains of salt, there is more than was initially reported here.
Civil suit? Might work out ... I think the case to be made would be made along the lines of a wrong/negligent behavior (getting out of the seat for the kit) ended up in minor injury to Mr Slater (which it apparently did) which required medical attention. Which it did. Damages set ... where?
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Lonewolf, You have I doubt never been in command of a long silver tube full of 400 pax. Let me tell you a little story, way back when I was in the left seat of just such a tube, after landing on a very slick runway the pax were INSTRUCTED by both the in charge F/A and myself{AKA The Captain} to stay in their seats, belts fastened as the ramps and taxiways were still in very poor condition, lo and behold one bozo decides to stand, I had to slamm it into reverse and lock the brakes when a snow plow charged at us totally out of controll, the end result? I had to spend my two days of during the next month in court as the pax sued us for whiplash and God knows what else, the judge was not impressed and gave him a large fine for deliberatley ignoreing a lawfull order. After a few years of this behavior it becomes routine to call the cops to meet the aircraft, how the F/As put up with these assholes amazes me. Please dont comment if you havnt been there.
Last edited by clunckdriver; 13th Aug 2010 at 16:34.
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...now this guy wants his job back but JetBlue says it is not possible....
Personnally, if they hired this person back, I would avoid traveling on this airline. Hopefully, they will jail him for a year or so and he will be mowing lawns after that.
Maybe, after prison he can team up with the balloon boy dad and create a reality show. I will not be watching, however.
Personnally, if they hired this person back, I would avoid traveling on this airline. Hopefully, they will jail him for a year or so and he will be mowing lawns after that.
Maybe, after prison he can team up with the balloon boy dad and create a reality show. I will not be watching, however.
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In fact, USA laws are usually stricter if anything.
Being more familiar with European law, I easily found Standard Note: SN/BT/2061 from the library of the UK House of Commons.
There are a number of offences that can be committed by aircraft passengers under the Air Navigation Order 2009, such as: entering an aircraft while drunk; being drunk on an aircraft; using threatening language or engaging in threatening behaviour; interfering with an aircraft or its crew; endangering an aircraft; and refusing to obey an order from the aircraft commander. Various penalties are available for these offences, as set out in the following note.
The FAs are the representatives in the cabin of the commander; any safety related direction/order given to the pax by an FA is by law considered to come from the commander of the aircraft.
Most seriously, it is an offence under Article 137 to endanger the safety of an aircraft.1 Article 141 gives the ‘commander of the aircraft’ complete authority and states that every person on an aircraft “must obey all lawful commands which the commander of that aircraft may give for
the purpose of securing the safety of the aircraft and of persons or property carried in the aircraft, or the safety, efficiency or regularity of air navigation”.
the purpose of securing the safety of the aircraft and of persons or property carried in the aircraft, or the safety, efficiency or regularity of air navigation”.
She disobeyed Slater´s direction to remain seated.
That´s two clear offenses.
Legal ones.
Or as you would phrase it: "Felonious standing up to get her kit"
When it comes to actual punishment, the situation becomes less clear.
Some countries legislate that disobeying a safety related direction from the crew equals endangering the safety of the aircraft and of persons or property carried in the aircraft, and will fine or incarcerate an offender.
Others don´t.
Perhaps you know what the law says in your country?
PS: Clunkdriver posted while I was typing; from his post it seems that a Canadian judge didn´t see it your way.
the judge was not impressed and gave him a large fine for deliberately ignoring a lawful order
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This is my first post on PPRUNE - so be gentle with me please!
My wife is a psychologist and Human Resources professional and I have a consuming interest in the Airline industry and have been following this thread with interest.
It strikes my wife and I that neither condemnation for this FAs action - or praise is appropriate. Perhaps a little bit of understanding is in order. Given the man's home circumstances a passanger ignoring his request to stay seated (however delivered) was probably the straw that broke the camel's back.
When hired the man was probably an A1 candidate for the job - but circumstances change and without Human Resources assessing staff and taking an interest in the mental well-being of their employees events such as this will continue happening.
We have all come across grumpy and unhelpful cabin staff - as well as the sort that make it a joy to fly with them and we have all been on a flight with people that enhance the experience or make it the journey from hell. One has, ultimatly to ask WHY this happened - not jump on one side or other of the bandwagon.
The guy, I think needs rest, recouperation and a different job.
All the best
stuart
My wife is a psychologist and Human Resources professional and I have a consuming interest in the Airline industry and have been following this thread with interest.
It strikes my wife and I that neither condemnation for this FAs action - or praise is appropriate. Perhaps a little bit of understanding is in order. Given the man's home circumstances a passanger ignoring his request to stay seated (however delivered) was probably the straw that broke the camel's back.
When hired the man was probably an A1 candidate for the job - but circumstances change and without Human Resources assessing staff and taking an interest in the mental well-being of their employees events such as this will continue happening.
We have all come across grumpy and unhelpful cabin staff - as well as the sort that make it a joy to fly with them and we have all been on a flight with people that enhance the experience or make it the journey from hell. One has, ultimatly to ask WHY this happened - not jump on one side or other of the bandwagon.
The guy, I think needs rest, recouperation and a different job.
All the best
stuart
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Juud:
Thanks. I'm in the impressive business.
Looks like we're having a breakthrough moment. Hugs.
Being able to conclude anything at all about people´s lives from a few posts on the internet. Impressive.
What he did was clearly wrong, for many different reasons
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Rogerk:
I think the posting on here from a serving Captain should be made standard procedure.
1. Leave the PA on so you hear the "Please remain seated and keep your seat belts fastened until the aicraft comes to a complete standstill"
2. Count to 5 slowly
3. BUMP THE BRAKES TWICE !!
I think the posting on here from a serving Captain should be made standard procedure.
1. Leave the PA on so you hear the "Please remain seated and keep your seat belts fastened until the aicraft comes to a complete standstill"
2. Count to 5 slowly
3. BUMP THE BRAKES TWICE !!
Monstrous implications for the pilot and the airline if it transpired that such an incident occured as a result of a "brake check" as opposed to a genuine emergency. The stupidity of the SLF in unbuckling and standing up would not be a mitigating factor.
Chances of the above are slim, but it is would be a brave person who gambles that it could never happen.
I seen a few "stand ups" in many years of flying and in all cases a loud, firm and assertive "PLEASE REMAIN SEATED SIR!" always resulted in the miscreant shamefacedly complying.
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Don't you people yet know the true story? Try reading real newspapers rather than believing Internet buehlchit. There was no "belligerent passenger. There was no "luggage in the overhead compartment." And it's quite possible, as the real journalists interview more passenger on the flight, that the FA boarded in PIT with his forehead already cut.
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I thought the job of the crew was to promote safety. Instead we have this crew member who is endangering the saftey of all including those on the plane and those below the aircraft.
...hope the judge will toss the book at this guy!
As for the passenger who casued the fuss, I hope they put him on the "no-fly" list.
...hope the judge will toss the book at this guy!
As for the passenger who casued the fuss, I hope they put him on the "no-fly" list.