Market Rate for cabin crew
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Tomkins,
It would seem that you need to get a 'grasp' (as you so eloquently put it) of what this thread is all about.
It's entitled 'Market Rate for cabin crew', the concept of which is that if the market (cabin crew candidates) don't like it they will no doubt join another airline on far superior terms, if such an airline exists (remembering that the market for BA is in the UK). BA will then have to come up with another plan in order to attract good candidates. This is the way the world goes round.
Equally, those not impressed by the pension on offer will attempt to find a better one elsewhere. Good luck to them with that.
Where I would agree with you is your assertion that new joiners might have to 'make do' with living with their parents/sharing a rented flat (ie. they might not be able to buy themselves a flat and a new car, whilst dining in fine restaurants in their first year or two) but then again, that's the way the world goes round.
I was there once.
It would seem that you need to get a 'grasp' (as you so eloquently put it) of what this thread is all about.
It's entitled 'Market Rate for cabin crew', the concept of which is that if the market (cabin crew candidates) don't like it they will no doubt join another airline on far superior terms, if such an airline exists (remembering that the market for BA is in the UK). BA will then have to come up with another plan in order to attract good candidates. This is the way the world goes round.
Equally, those not impressed by the pension on offer will attempt to find a better one elsewhere. Good luck to them with that.
Where I would agree with you is your assertion that new joiners might have to 'make do' with living with their parents/sharing a rented flat (ie. they might not be able to buy themselves a flat and a new car, whilst dining in fine restaurants in their first year or two) but then again, that's the way the world goes round.
I was there once.
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123Breath
just because BA have managed to attract new entrants does not mean that they are offering a market rate.In these uncertain times many people are prepared to work for these terms and conditions.This could be a false market rate.NewFleet is not up and running yet so we will have to wait and see if it is acually sustainable at these low pay levels or whether they will have to 'tweak' the t & c's to keep people interested.
just because BA have managed to attract new entrants does not mean that they are offering a market rate.In these uncertain times many people are prepared to work for these terms and conditions.This could be a false market rate.NewFleet is not up and running yet so we will have to wait and see if it is acually sustainable at these low pay levels or whether they will have to 'tweak' the t & c's to keep people interested.
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Did you know that one of the conditions written into their contract is that if there is a downturn in the market (caused by a recession or terrorist attack or errupting volcanoe etc ) crew can be put on unpaid leave at a moments notice.Scary ,as we all know how cyclical the airline industry can be.
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To put to bed the pay/market rate issue, Virgin are currently recruiting cabin crew.
Job Details
Cabin Crew
Ref 69932
Location
Contract Type Permanent
Salary Range £0 to £15,000
Job Type Cabin Crew
Job Details
As you would expect, we like to look after our staff and offer a competitive package starting with a full time, permanent contract.
The following is currently provided (after a qualifying period):·
- a basic salary of £11,564; trip pay, plus on board commission.
BA are offering £11,000 plus £2.80/hr duty pay.
I would say these both equate to £15000-£18000/yr.
There are many thousand applying I'm sure.
Job Details
Cabin Crew
Ref 69932
Location
Contract Type Permanent
Salary Range £0 to £15,000
Job Type Cabin Crew
Job Details
As you would expect, we like to look after our staff and offer a competitive package starting with a full time, permanent contract.
The following is currently provided (after a qualifying period):·
- a basic salary of £11,564; trip pay, plus on board commission.
BA are offering £11,000 plus £2.80/hr duty pay.
I would say these both equate to £15000-£18000/yr.
There are many thousand applying I'm sure.
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Here's a challenge.....
Is anyone amongst the cabin crew community in BA and participating in this anonymous forum able/willing to post the figure shown on your P60 for last year, or alternatively the figure shown on your March 2010 payslip, in the top left hand corner of the box entitled 'Tax year cumulatives', and labelled 'Gross taxable pay'. If everyone uses the figure from either of these two sources the comparison will be clear. A good demographic would be;
BA main crew post '97 contract less than 5 years' seniority
BA main crew post '97 contract 10 years' seniority
BA main crew old contract 15 years' seniority
BA main crew old contract 25 years' seniority
BA purser old contract 15 years' seniority
BA purser old contract 25 years' seniority
BA purser old contract 35 years' seniority
BA CSD old contract 15 years' seniority
BA CSD old contract 25 years' seniority
BA CSD old contract 35 years' seniority
If you don't fit exactly into any of these categories, just state your seniority/position/pay. Please also state if you are on a part-time contract.
Can anyone challenge my claim, which I am making right here and now, to have seen a senior BA CSD's pay slip about 6 years ago, which showed a total annual gross taxable income of £72,000 (including all allowances/premiums etc.)? If so, you'll need to back it up with fact, because I know what I saw and won't accept a mere denial that it's possible.
I would imagine that anyone who disagrees with Bassa's stance might be willing to put the record straight here, as it is very relevant to this debate.
One rule ........you have to be honest!
Is anyone amongst the cabin crew community in BA and participating in this anonymous forum able/willing to post the figure shown on your P60 for last year, or alternatively the figure shown on your March 2010 payslip, in the top left hand corner of the box entitled 'Tax year cumulatives', and labelled 'Gross taxable pay'. If everyone uses the figure from either of these two sources the comparison will be clear. A good demographic would be;
BA main crew post '97 contract less than 5 years' seniority
BA main crew post '97 contract 10 years' seniority
BA main crew old contract 15 years' seniority
BA main crew old contract 25 years' seniority
BA purser old contract 15 years' seniority
BA purser old contract 25 years' seniority
BA purser old contract 35 years' seniority
BA CSD old contract 15 years' seniority
BA CSD old contract 25 years' seniority
BA CSD old contract 35 years' seniority
If you don't fit exactly into any of these categories, just state your seniority/position/pay. Please also state if you are on a part-time contract.
Can anyone challenge my claim, which I am making right here and now, to have seen a senior BA CSD's pay slip about 6 years ago, which showed a total annual gross taxable income of £72,000 (including all allowances/premiums etc.)? If so, you'll need to back it up with fact, because I know what I saw and won't accept a mere denial that it's possible.
I would imagine that anyone who disagrees with Bassa's stance might be willing to put the record straight here, as it is very relevant to this debate.
One rule ........you have to be honest!
Last edited by 123breath; 8th Oct 2010 at 20:03.
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I don't deny for a moment that you saw a CSD's salary 6 years ago and it was exceptional but I think you will find that things are a lot different now. Owing to the loss of many long range routes (KUL, MEL, PER, BNE EZE etc as well as days off down route (the vast majority of non-long range are now night stops) the allowance/premium payment side of the salary has diminished considerably. If I compare my p60 from 5 years ago to the following years I am actually several thousand pounds down each year from my peak earning years. I think you will find most crew who have reached the top of the increment tree a few years back will agree with me. This has of course saved BA millions in salary costs.
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Answers;
It's interesting that no one from BA has come forward with figures yet.
Here are some of my answers, and once again please correct me if I'm wrong;
BA main crew post '97 contract less than 5 years' seniority = £30,000 (4 years)
BA main crew post '97 contract 10 years' seniority
BA main crew old contract 15 years' seniority
BA main crew old contract 25 years' seniority = £45,000
BA purser old contract 15 years' seniority
BA purser old contract 25 years' seniority = £55,000
BA purser old contract 35 years' seniority
BA CSD old contract 15 years' seniority
BA CSD old contract 25 years' seniority
BA CSD old contract 35 years' seniority = £85,000
Could someone please fill in the gaps?
Here are some of my answers, and once again please correct me if I'm wrong;
BA main crew post '97 contract less than 5 years' seniority = £30,000 (4 years)
BA main crew post '97 contract 10 years' seniority
BA main crew old contract 15 years' seniority
BA main crew old contract 25 years' seniority = £45,000
BA purser old contract 15 years' seniority
BA purser old contract 25 years' seniority = £55,000
BA purser old contract 35 years' seniority
BA CSD old contract 15 years' seniority
BA CSD old contract 25 years' seniority
BA CSD old contract 35 years' seniority = £85,000
Could someone please fill in the gaps?
Last edited by 123breath; 9th Oct 2010 at 08:17. Reason: Added details
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123Breath
Dont know where you are getting your figures from but I am more than happy to share.
WW CSD 23 years (14 Years as CSD) 75% Contract - March 10 Payslip = £38,865.14
March 09 = £36693.27
March 08 = £36695.48
YTD Sep 10 = £15,742.40
WW CSD 23 years (14 Years as CSD) 75% Contract - March 10 Payslip = £38,865.14
March 09 = £36693.27
March 08 = £36695.48
YTD Sep 10 = £15,742.40
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Didn't really want to get involved in all this but its initiating what an earth do you think we earn.
Main crew 3 years seniority
Full time , bid for 3 days multi sector trips. Long days very busy roster p60 19.024
You are way out. I would say I am on a par with other airlines. In fact my friend at easy takes home more
Main crew 3 years seniority
Full time , bid for 3 days multi sector trips. Long days very busy roster p60 19.024
You are way out. I would say I am on a par with other airlines. In fact my friend at easy takes home more
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123Breath, I am main crew, 20-odd years service, full time and the figure on my P60 was £37,000. Obviously before tax and NI etc. That was an exceptional year, usually I earn less than that.
I don't know where you got the figure of £45,000 from
.
I don't know where you got the figure of £45,000 from
.
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Update
Now we're getting somewhere.
BA main crew post '97 contract 3 years' seniority = £19,000 (quoted)
BA main crew post '97 contract 10 years' seniority
BA main crew old contract 15 years' seniority
BA main crew old contract 20+ years' seniority = £37,000 (quoted)
BA purser old contract 15 years' seniority
BA purser old contract 25 years' seniority = £45,000 (educated guess)
BA purser old contract 35 years' seniority
BA CSD old contract 15 years' seniority
BA CSD old contract 23 years' seniority = £51,500 (quoted, pro-rata from 75%)
BA CSD old contract 35 years' seniority = £85,000 (pay slip that I've seen, corrected for RPI increases)
Could someone please fill in the gaps?
BA main crew post '97 contract 3 years' seniority = £19,000 (quoted)
BA main crew post '97 contract 10 years' seniority
BA main crew old contract 15 years' seniority
BA main crew old contract 20+ years' seniority = £37,000 (quoted)
BA purser old contract 15 years' seniority
BA purser old contract 25 years' seniority = £45,000 (educated guess)
BA purser old contract 35 years' seniority
BA CSD old contract 15 years' seniority
BA CSD old contract 23 years' seniority = £51,500 (quoted, pro-rata from 75%)
BA CSD old contract 35 years' seniority = £85,000 (pay slip that I've seen, corrected for RPI increases)
Could someone please fill in the gaps?
Last edited by 123breath; 9th Oct 2010 at 11:50.
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The £85k isn't achievable 123. As I explained above all cabin crew are earning less now than they were 5 years or more ago. The £76k that you saw was exceptional even then and I very much doubt than ANY CSD's earn anywhere near that now owing to a reduction in premium routes, quicker flying times (thereby triggering smaller "box" payments) and less time down route triggering far less in the way of allowances.
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numberfifteenplease said,
123Breath,
Dont know where you are getting your figures from but I am more than happy to share.
123Breath,
Dont know where you are getting your figures from but I am more than happy to share.
These are my figures.
EF CSD Flying with BA 26 and a half years, CSD 12 and a half years.(full time)
Gross Taxable pay
March 2010:£47631
March 2009:£45979
March 2008:£46014
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123Breath
Your maths simply do not stack up, how am I as a CSD expected to earn an additional £33,500 for just 12 years seniority???? According to my mortgage reference I only have another £1500 worth of incremental pay rises to go before I reach the top of the CSD pay scale.
Your top end figure just is not correct and is out by 000's
Your top end figure just is not correct and is out by 000's