SLF Ignoring CC. What to do?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: firmly on dry land
Age: 81
Posts: 1,541
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SLF Ignoring CC. What to do?
I was on a recent flight and saw a pax a row back watching a movie on his PDA through the taxy and take-off phase. What action would you advise another passenger to take?
I was too far away to tell him he was contravening the rules. If I used the crew call light the CC may or may not have reacted. If they had unstrapped to see what I wanted then they could have been at risk.
So, what to do?
Similarly when you see pax unstrapped, or bottles in the overhead locker, or baggage in the wrong place, or using a mobile, or private boozing, or even a crafty fag*?
* That is one thing I have yet to see but I am sure that many CC have.
So, should you alert the CC immediately or as soon as it is safe to do so? Or try and tell the offender directly?
I was too far away to tell him he was contravening the rules. If I used the crew call light the CC may or may not have reacted. If they had unstrapped to see what I wanted then they could have been at risk.
So, what to do?
Similarly when you see pax unstrapped, or bottles in the overhead locker, or baggage in the wrong place, or using a mobile, or private boozing, or even a crafty fag*?
* That is one thing I have yet to see but I am sure that many CC have.
So, should you alert the CC immediately or as soon as it is safe to do so? Or try and tell the offender directly?
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Dublin
Posts: 1,806
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tell the offender directly. If he/she responds negatively then mention it to the crew!
But to be honest, the only person that is endangered is the **** watching the PDA as he/she wont be alert in the event that something happens. Of course if there is someone trapped in by them or the thing goes flying on impact then there is a problem!
But to be honest, the only person that is endangered is the **** watching the PDA as he/she wont be alert in the event that something happens. Of course if there is someone trapped in by them or the thing goes flying on impact then there is a problem!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the only person that is endangered is the **** watching the PDA as he/she wont be alert in the event that something happens
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Are you suggesting that passengers are required to be alert, undistracted, and focussed on safety procedures as they taxy out and take-off? Where does that rule come from? Let them relax, that's what they want to do.
If it's the use of the PDA that bothers you, there are plenty of electronic devices in and around the cabin, my watch for example, that perhaps should be turned off, but that's just not practical.
The 'offender' is a customer - to be treated as such - not told off by a petulant control freak!
If it's the use of the PDA that bothers you, there are plenty of electronic devices in and around the cabin, my watch for example, that perhaps should be turned off, but that's just not practical.
The 'offender' is a customer - to be treated as such - not told off by a petulant control freak!
Join Date: May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 429
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Are you suggesting that passengers are required to be alert, undistracted, and focussed on safety procedures as they taxy out and take-off? Where does that rule come from? Let them relax, that's what they want to do.
And whilst actually paying attention to the safety demonstration isn't required, there are plenty studies that conclude that those who pay attention for those 5 minutes have a greater chance of survival and are more likely to remain relatively calm in an emergency.
I used to fly Newquay to Gatwick as a passenger regularly and it was embarassing how many times the CC had to ask people to sit down after we pulled up on stand, they give fairly clear instructions each time and yet as soon as one is up, most passengers are out of their seats and in the way.
I've seen the Dash 8 brief a good hundred times now and yet I still bother my arse to listen. I don't particularly want to be obstructed by the muppet who can't find or operate an Emergency Exit if they need it, because they weren't listening, its not too taxing to give up two minutes of your life just because you are used to it, if you can't be bothered to listen then drive.
If I have to brief my passengers personally as the captain of a commerical helicopter and they don't listen, I don't take them whether they are legally required to listen to me or not.
I've seen the Dash 8 brief a good hundred times now and yet I still bother my arse to listen. I don't particularly want to be obstructed by the muppet who can't find or operate an Emergency Exit if they need it, because they weren't listening, its not too taxing to give up two minutes of your life just because you are used to it, if you can't be bothered to listen then drive.
If I have to brief my passengers personally as the captain of a commerical helicopter and they don't listen, I don't take them whether they are legally required to listen to me or not.
I used to fly Newquay to Gatwick as a passenger regularly and it was embarassing how many times the CC had to ask people to sit down after we pulled up on stand, they give fairly clear instructions each time and yet as soon as one is up, most passengers are out of their seats and in the way.
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Nice
Age: 74
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
W2
I assume you were a passenger on the flight you mention.
If you see something that you consider is not allowed for reasons of safety you should speak to the cabin crew privately and then leave the issue for them to deal with.
Some passengers are unaware they may be doing something that is not allowed so it would be inappropriate to speak to them yourself. On the other hand whatever they were doing may be allowed so it would better to check with the cabin crew who know what is and what is not allowed.
As far as watching safety briefings is concerned, it is really up to the individual if they care to watch it or not, there is no law that says they have to. Usually when the flight crew politely suggest they should watch the briefing they are more likely to do so. I know some people have flown on an aircraft type so many times before they cannot be bothered to watch. I always feel it is a little rude to ignore the briefing and carry on talking or reading etc. Sadly there is nothing anyone can do about it unless they are very noisy and prevent other people from hearing the briefing, that happened to me once when I stopped the briefing until I asked the offenders to allow other people to have the opportunity to at least hear what we were saying. The offending pax were not in the least bit bothered at the briefing being stopped due to their loud shouting and laughing, that surprised me, they probably do it on every flight.
I assume you were a passenger on the flight you mention.
If you see something that you consider is not allowed for reasons of safety you should speak to the cabin crew privately and then leave the issue for them to deal with.
Some passengers are unaware they may be doing something that is not allowed so it would be inappropriate to speak to them yourself. On the other hand whatever they were doing may be allowed so it would better to check with the cabin crew who know what is and what is not allowed.
As far as watching safety briefings is concerned, it is really up to the individual if they care to watch it or not, there is no law that says they have to. Usually when the flight crew politely suggest they should watch the briefing they are more likely to do so. I know some people have flown on an aircraft type so many times before they cannot be bothered to watch. I always feel it is a little rude to ignore the briefing and carry on talking or reading etc. Sadly there is nothing anyone can do about it unless they are very noisy and prevent other people from hearing the briefing, that happened to me once when I stopped the briefing until I asked the offenders to allow other people to have the opportunity to at least hear what we were saying. The offending pax were not in the least bit bothered at the briefing being stopped due to their loud shouting and laughing, that surprised me, they probably do it on every flight.
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I just find it amazing that an off duty crew member would even consider telling a passenger not to watch a PDA on taxy out.
If I were operating and maybe on assessment, I'd ask the pax not to use it, but do you genuinely think there is danger associated with watching a video on an PDA? There are hundreds of such devices on board and functioning during take-off, and the aircraft is built to withstand far stronger EMF than that associated with iphones etc!
Those regs are just a legacy from when cellphones and other devices operated via microwaves and at far higher powers, and are slowly being removed.
If you see a passenger replaying a video clip on their camera as the power comes on for take off, just look away, be brave, and bite your knuckles.
If I were operating and maybe on assessment, I'd ask the pax not to use it, but do you genuinely think there is danger associated with watching a video on an PDA? There are hundreds of such devices on board and functioning during take-off, and the aircraft is built to withstand far stronger EMF than that associated with iphones etc!
Those regs are just a legacy from when cellphones and other devices operated via microwaves and at far higher powers, and are slowly being removed.
If you see a passenger replaying a video clip on their camera as the power comes on for take off, just look away, be brave, and bite your knuckles.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Classic, I disagree. Well partly anyway. Mobile phones may not hurt aircraft systems.That does not make them safe.
But can you imagine the absolute horror of being stuck on an aircraft for 8 or more hours with some arrogant little twit who makes loud calls the whole way across the Atlantic, the main point of which is to justify who important he thinks he is?
I am pretty sure I and many others would crack. So unless you want the murder rate on aircraft to rise sharply, please fight the use of phones onboard at every opportunity.
This message was brought to you by the league for peaceful SLF who listen to safety talks, say thank you to CC, smile, read quietly or watch the IFE and don't get stupidly drunk or try and smoke etc etc.
But can you imagine the absolute horror of being stuck on an aircraft for 8 or more hours with some arrogant little twit who makes loud calls the whole way across the Atlantic, the main point of which is to justify who important he thinks he is?
I am pretty sure I and many others would crack. So unless you want the murder rate on aircraft to rise sharply, please fight the use of phones onboard at every opportunity.
This message was brought to you by the league for peaceful SLF who listen to safety talks, say thank you to CC, smile, read quietly or watch the IFE and don't get stupidly drunk or try and smoke etc etc.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
do you genuinely think there is danger associated with watching a video on an PDA?
the aircraft is built to withstand far stronger EMF than that associated with iphones etc!
Those regs are just a legacy from when cellphones and other devices operated via microwaves and at far higher powers, and are slowly being removed.
the aircraft is built to withstand far stronger EMF than that associated with iphones etc!
Those regs are just a legacy from when cellphones and other devices operated via microwaves and at far higher powers, and are slowly being removed.
What use are lifejackets too when the aircraft doesn't carry proper liferafts and exected time of survival is measured in minutes in the Atlantic?
Why bother searching passengers too for yesterday's threat? I am sure that the nimble terrorist will come up with something else.
Time for us all to lie down and be counted. Let's not let the little people boss us around.
Unfortunately nothing can be done.
but this issue angers me too, because how many times have you heard of pax; blocking others from exiting/ taking carry-ons jumping into flames/running engines/ or recently opening a submerged door?---do everyone a favor if you can not listen to the briefing --just sit quietly and die, but don't kill others because you know soooo much about EVAC procedures
to me the scariest and most dangerous factor in an air accident are the gound people aboard with their brillant ideas
edited to add emboldened words
but this issue angers me too, because how many times have you heard of pax; blocking others from exiting/ taking carry-ons jumping into flames/running engines/ or recently opening a submerged door?---do everyone a favor if you can not listen to the briefing --just sit quietly and die, but don't kill others because you know soooo much about EVAC procedures
to me the scariest and most dangerous factor in an air accident are the gound people aboard with their brillant ideas
edited to add emboldened words
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Dublin
Posts: 1,806
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, and remember at the end of the day the Cabin Crew know better then anyone how to get themselves out of a burning aircraft and they are not required to put themselves in any danger just to rescue a passenger who couldnt have been bothered paying attention to the demos or rules!
So it is in your own self interest to pay attention and follow their instructions!
So it is in your own self interest to pay attention and follow their instructions!
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Singapore
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Please remember - seat belts are there for not just crash landings... there are alot of things that make the tube move in strange directions suddenly. Turbulence, system issues, aborted take-off, etc.
Making you turn off everything is a way to make it as simple as possible. If it wasn't uniform it would be too hard to understand for the 'simple' minority.
Making you turn off everything is a way to make it as simple as possible. If it wasn't uniform it would be too hard to understand for the 'simple' minority.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
So your 'simple' little PDA may or may not affect the aircraft electronic systems.
My simple little PDA has a memory capacity some 32 times that of the Mark 1 Nimrod. It has virtually unlimited storage capacity measured in gigabytes. It can transmit on WiFi or BlueTooth and others on mobile freqs.
It is not beyond the wit of man to install a rogue engine management system and close the throttles at VR.
Well? Now what do we do?
Back to the mundane:
Personally I stow all my bits and pieces so I will have them on me if I have to exit quickly. I always wear trousers and good shoes; Mrs PN likewise is always attired in running kit. An Airbus driver of my acquaintance said if it was up to him he would ban any passenger in shorts, thongs, bare midrifts etc.
I dress for survival, expect the worst and hope for the best.
My simple little PDA has a memory capacity some 32 times that of the Mark 1 Nimrod. It has virtually unlimited storage capacity measured in gigabytes. It can transmit on WiFi or BlueTooth and others on mobile freqs.
It is not beyond the wit of man to install a rogue engine management system and close the throttles at VR.
Well? Now what do we do?
Back to the mundane:
if . . . the thing goes flying on impact then there is a problem!
I dress for survival, expect the worst and hope for the best.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: FarFarAway
Posts: 284
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I just find it amazing that an off duty crew member would even consider telling a passenger not to watch a PDA on taxy out.
I told her, in the most polite manner, that it's not safe to have the infant without the seatbelt; she completely ignored what i told her and carried on playing pik a boo. I told her again then i had the "what the hell do you know" look from her, to which i responded by taking my ID out (i always have my ID with me when i travel, you never know that's what i say...) and simply said "i am not asking you to put it back on, i am telling you. If you chose not to do so, this a/c will not take off without the cabin secure. Trust me".
She mumbled something but done it. Problem solved.
Now moving on the PDA (or any other electronical items), it really gets on my nerves when people ignore when we say "all battery operated equipment must be switched off now". Not only it is dangerous, it disregards the CC's (who are delegated authority in the cabin by the Commander of the a/c) request therefore the Commanders reasonable instruction (yes, this is an Air Navigation Order). The pax is not alert and may endanger his and other people's safety should anything happen.
So W3, should you come across this situation again, please feel free to turn around to the offender and quote the above.
Rgds,
ATS
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Several people here seem to be suggesting that the ban on electronic devices is not there now because of EMC issues, but because of either PAX attention or flying objects.
But this doesn't stack up with what we are told. I am allowed to read a book or newpaper (I am even given one of these by CC) which will distract me just as much as using a PDA etc. (I am talking about during take-off and landing here, not about during the safety briefing).
Similarly if the issue was flying objects we should be told to put phones etc away, not turn them off
But this doesn't stack up with what we are told. I am allowed to read a book or newpaper (I am even given one of these by CC) which will distract me just as much as using a PDA etc. (I am talking about during take-off and landing here, not about during the safety briefing).
Similarly if the issue was flying objects we should be told to put phones etc away, not turn them off
An Airbus driver of my acquaintance said if it was up to him he would ban any passenger in shorts, thongs, bare midrifts etc.
Would only do it for Muffin tops as you need some distractions.
Have seen a CC asked someone with a child to restrain them properly, Mum wasn't really interested until CC got on speaker and indicated that regretably we would be returning to the terminal as a passenger was not restrained properly. Pilot then came on and apologised. Mum after a few comments complied as some passengers vented their views.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: firmly on dry land
Age: 81
Posts: 1,541
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
apaddyinuk - it would have been difficult to tell the offender directly. Whether the PDA, or any other electronic device would cause a hazard is beyond my, or I would suggest any CCs, competence to assess. The announcement was OFF and the pax had ignored this.
Classic - are you an electronic engineer who knows that all electronics are EMC with aircraft systems? I quite agree with your assertion that the EMF issues are possibly now an irrelevancy but we do not know that for a fact. The customer is NOT always right. When he boards an aircraft or a ship he accepts that he is under the absolute authority of the Captain acting in accordance with the relevant Act.
Jean-Lill, good advice about speaking privately with the CC rather than confronting the pax. The issue here is that the CC are all in their seats for take-off and the pax is wilfully or negligently ignoring the safety of flight briefing.
Pugilistic Animus - you are probably right that nothing can be done before the aircraft gets airborne. Nice as it might be to allow passengers noticing anything wrong during the departure phase to announce it 'clearly and concisely' - THE PASSENGER IN SEAT 13 HAS AN ELECTRONIC DEVICE SWITCHED ON - I can't see that being proposed as standard practice. How about having the pax escorted off the plane (last) for a professional one to one instruction on safety procedures?
Abusing the Sky -
Only if Mrs Wader is not with me and he/she is smaller than me 
To sum up, there is nothing really that can be done except consider warning the pax directly. If the pax was then publicly briefed on the transgression then the message might filter through.
Classic - are you an electronic engineer who knows that all electronics are EMC with aircraft systems? I quite agree with your assertion that the EMF issues are possibly now an irrelevancy but we do not know that for a fact. The customer is NOT always right. When he boards an aircraft or a ship he accepts that he is under the absolute authority of the Captain acting in accordance with the relevant Act.
Jean-Lill, good advice about speaking privately with the CC rather than confronting the pax. The issue here is that the CC are all in their seats for take-off and the pax is wilfully or negligently ignoring the safety of flight briefing.
Pugilistic Animus - you are probably right that nothing can be done before the aircraft gets airborne. Nice as it might be to allow passengers noticing anything wrong during the departure phase to announce it 'clearly and concisely' - THE PASSENGER IN SEAT 13 HAS AN ELECTRONIC DEVICE SWITCHED ON - I can't see that being proposed as standard practice. How about having the pax escorted off the plane (last) for a professional one to one instruction on safety procedures?
Abusing the Sky -
please feel free to turn around to the offender and quote the above
To sum up, there is nothing really that can be done except consider warning the pax directly. If the pax was then publicly briefed on the transgression then the message might filter through.