BA and Project Columbus III
Apparently BASSAs offer has been valued at £173M ....
And I realise it is splitting hairs nuigini, but I believe the figure was £82 million?
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It would also be interesting to know how much the 757 deal is considering all of these aircraft will be grounded in a couple of months. Replacing the PSR with a main cabin crew and letting it leave LHR with only one SCCM was a very generous proposal of them.
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Is it just me or is BASSA's proposal, compared to BA's, completely ludicrous? It offers barely any cost savings or increase in productivity and merely rewrites the Disruption Agreement, removes the telephone allowance and creates a new back to back. I don't understand how in anyway that can be seen as negotiation and find it laughable that they can even suggest such ridiculous 'changes'.
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BASSA members please check the BASSA website for the latest proposal from BA. I have nothing to lose if it goes to a strike. If BA want me to work on those conditions I'd rather die standing up than live life on my knees!
Tofster
PS I am not making 30K a year as full time crew as reported in the press. My P60 states 18k!
Tofster
PS I am not making 30K a year as full time crew as reported in the press. My P60 states 18k!
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Tofster.
I'm cabin crew and opposed to BA's current proposal. But I fear it does our cause no good when you hysterically announce that death is the prefered option. There are trolls in abundance, please don't feed them.
What happened to a stiff upper lip and quiet confident resolve. (Trolls - you are full, don't bite!)
I'm cabin crew and opposed to BA's current proposal. But I fear it does our cause no good when you hysterically announce that death is the prefered option. There are trolls in abundance, please don't feed them.
What happened to a stiff upper lip and quiet confident resolve. (Trolls - you are full, don't bite!)
I have nothing to lose if it goes to a strike.
If BA want me to work on those conditions I'd rather die standing up than live life on my knees!
Last edited by Andy_S; 30th Jun 2009 at 15:49. Reason: Insertion of missing words
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I'm afraid that the BA proposals are not acceptable. Money aside, I cannot contemplate operating to long range destinations with a single local nights rest. The only way to sleep on the first night of time changes of +/-8 hours is by sleeping pills or lots of alcohol. Neither is helpful.
No, I'm afraid that if BA want the best from their crews and to keep peddling the premium carrier MO, then there needs to be concessions.
No, I'm afraid that if BA want the best from their crews and to keep peddling the premium carrier MO, then there needs to be concessions.
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Tofster,
Which bit of £18K per annum do you find less preferable than making yourself and all your colleagues redundant in the middle of the worst recession for 50 years?
Which bit of £18K per annum do you find less preferable than making yourself and all your colleagues redundant in the middle of the worst recession for 50 years?
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Tofster
Your P60 states 18k? Well according to BASSA's calculation, on this new contract you will be earning approx £19k.
"For main crew this will be around GBP11000 plus hourly rate and
performance related pay giving a total of around GBP19000. Supervisor will
be GBP22000 plus hourly pay plus performance related pay giving a total of
around GBP29000"
So although working harder, you will be better off?
"For main crew this will be around GBP11000 plus hourly rate and
performance related pay giving a total of around GBP19000. Supervisor will
be GBP22000 plus hourly pay plus performance related pay giving a total of
around GBP29000"
So although working harder, you will be better off?
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Here is the proposal!
PAY
BASSA - proposed a deal mirroring the pilot’s deal exactly with a 2.61% reduction in incremental pay. With an equivalent agreed share scheme to reward crew for this contribution in 2011 and 2012
BA - now wants no increase in basic pay or variable pay for Cabin Crew for the next two years or incremental increases for one year. This is a permanent reduction.
Cabin crew have not been offered the “payback” inline with the pilots and mangement who will potentially receive up to 13 million pounds per year in the form of a share bonus divided between Captains and First Officers.
There will be a freeze in incremental pay rises with effect from 1 January 2010 until December 2010 for those earning a basic salary of 14,500 pounds per year or more (or the equivalent pro-rata salary for part-time Cabin Crew)
A fixed element of pay will be introduced, to be paid as a non-pensionable monthly payment, replacing all variable allowances.
The payment will be subject to a deduction calculated on a daily basis for all non-flying related duties ie courses and sickness etc.
The additional payment will replace the following.
WORLDWIDE
Long range payments
Back to back PAYMENTS
Destination payments
ETP
Time away allowance
Telephone allowance
EURO FLEET
Long day payment
ETP
Early report
Telephone allowance
Down route rest
Worldwide rest down route will no longer be entitled to 2 local nights rest on any non-long range or long-range routes. Currently this would affect
SFO, LAX, JNB, CPT, PEK, MEX, GRU, HKG, SIN, BKK, PHX, NRT, MRU, PVG, GIG,
BLR, MAA
Reduced crewing complement
2 crewmembers would be removed from: BOM, DEL, DEN, MIA, MAA, HYD, MRU, YYC, MRU 777, PVG 777, GIG 777, SIN 777, HKG 777
One crew member - a purser- would be removed from ALL other routes and aircraft types and configurations 747,777, 767.
Additionally in the future, all future/on the day crew compliments can be altered at British Airways’s sole discretion as they see fit.
There will be no “one down” payments.
Aircraft can leave base or down route with any crewing level that is legally compliant at the time. For example on a 747 this is currently 11.
Operational Flexibility for ALL fleets - ROSTERS, TRIPS, DAYS OFF
In the future all rosters, trips and days off may be altered at British Airways sole discretion, when ever the operation requires it.
Promotion and new contract crew
All future promotion will only be to the “new contract” supervisor, there will not be pursers or CSD.
New crew and all future promotions will have to sign a new contract which, will include
New rates of pay, no increments
New scheme based flying this will NOT be to current agreements
Hourly rate
Performance related pay.
For main crew this will be around £11000 plus hourly rate and performance related pay giving a total of around £19000. Supervisor will be £22000 plus hourly pay plus performance related pay giving a total of around £29000 . Performance related pay would be linked to GPM scores, punctuality, sickness, profit margin etc.
There will be NO incremental salary increases.
How this will affect you on EF
Days off
BA are going to reduce your days off by one per month, which means they’d cram in another Moscow, Athens or Tripoli.
Crew compliments
Reduced as follows!
A319 will have starting ratio of 3 crew on ALL bands!
A320 now operating most flights with a maximum of ONLY 4 crew!
A321 with over 50 club, will only have 5 crew!
They do NOT expect any reduction in on-board service!
Single supervisor
One single SCCM only on ALL flights (no further promotion to PSR/CSD).
18hours off downroute
In disruption, you CANNOT have 18 hours off down route, not matter hard you’ve worked!
Monthly duty payment
A flat monthly duty payment will replace LDP, ETP, ERP and telephone.
So those crew that operate the long duties will lose money.
Transfers from EF, WW and SFG.
There will be NO further plans for any transfers after this current list. The only way to move will be to apply for a new contract on a different fleet. To be clear there will be no more ability to move to any other fleet on current terms and conditions.
PAY
BASSA - proposed a deal mirroring the pilot’s deal exactly with a 2.61% reduction in incremental pay. With an equivalent agreed share scheme to reward crew for this contribution in 2011 and 2012
BA - now wants no increase in basic pay or variable pay for Cabin Crew for the next two years or incremental increases for one year. This is a permanent reduction.
Cabin crew have not been offered the “payback” inline with the pilots and mangement who will potentially receive up to 13 million pounds per year in the form of a share bonus divided between Captains and First Officers.
There will be a freeze in incremental pay rises with effect from 1 January 2010 until December 2010 for those earning a basic salary of 14,500 pounds per year or more (or the equivalent pro-rata salary for part-time Cabin Crew)
A fixed element of pay will be introduced, to be paid as a non-pensionable monthly payment, replacing all variable allowances.
The payment will be subject to a deduction calculated on a daily basis for all non-flying related duties ie courses and sickness etc.
The additional payment will replace the following.
WORLDWIDE
Long range payments
Back to back PAYMENTS
Destination payments
ETP
Time away allowance
Telephone allowance
EURO FLEET
Long day payment
ETP
Early report
Telephone allowance
Down route rest
Worldwide rest down route will no longer be entitled to 2 local nights rest on any non-long range or long-range routes. Currently this would affect
SFO, LAX, JNB, CPT, PEK, MEX, GRU, HKG, SIN, BKK, PHX, NRT, MRU, PVG, GIG,
BLR, MAA
Reduced crewing complement
2 crewmembers would be removed from: BOM, DEL, DEN, MIA, MAA, HYD, MRU, YYC, MRU 777, PVG 777, GIG 777, SIN 777, HKG 777
One crew member - a purser- would be removed from ALL other routes and aircraft types and configurations 747,777, 767.
Additionally in the future, all future/on the day crew compliments can be altered at British Airways’s sole discretion as they see fit.
There will be no “one down” payments.
Aircraft can leave base or down route with any crewing level that is legally compliant at the time. For example on a 747 this is currently 11.
Operational Flexibility for ALL fleets - ROSTERS, TRIPS, DAYS OFF
In the future all rosters, trips and days off may be altered at British Airways sole discretion, when ever the operation requires it.
Promotion and new contract crew
All future promotion will only be to the “new contract” supervisor, there will not be pursers or CSD.
New crew and all future promotions will have to sign a new contract which, will include
New rates of pay, no increments
New scheme based flying this will NOT be to current agreements
Hourly rate
Performance related pay.
For main crew this will be around £11000 plus hourly rate and performance related pay giving a total of around £19000. Supervisor will be £22000 plus hourly pay plus performance related pay giving a total of around £29000 . Performance related pay would be linked to GPM scores, punctuality, sickness, profit margin etc.
There will be NO incremental salary increases.
How this will affect you on EF
Days off
BA are going to reduce your days off by one per month, which means they’d cram in another Moscow, Athens or Tripoli.
Crew compliments
Reduced as follows!
A319 will have starting ratio of 3 crew on ALL bands!
A320 now operating most flights with a maximum of ONLY 4 crew!
A321 with over 50 club, will only have 5 crew!
They do NOT expect any reduction in on-board service!
Single supervisor
One single SCCM only on ALL flights (no further promotion to PSR/CSD).
18hours off downroute
In disruption, you CANNOT have 18 hours off down route, not matter hard you’ve worked!
Monthly duty payment
A flat monthly duty payment will replace LDP, ETP, ERP and telephone.
So those crew that operate the long duties will lose money.
Transfers from EF, WW and SFG.
There will be NO further plans for any transfers after this current list. The only way to move will be to apply for a new contract on a different fleet. To be clear there will be no more ability to move to any other fleet on current terms and conditions.
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I see. So the Newfleet idea hasn't gone away at all, it's just morphed into everybody being forced onto Newfleet terms. Given today is the deadline for negotiations what news is there on the way ahead?
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Given today is the deadline for negotiations what news is there on the way ahead?
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wow,that is a dramatic cut in lifestyle and pay .In th west we are having a race to the bottom in terms of lifestyle and quality of life .The economy is in such an awful state that BA may as well impose these conditions come what may,as the company has nothing to lose as it may just fail regardless .Guys ,we are in deep doo doo ,pilots are no way exempt and it is petty and irrelivant to compare ourselves with them. I personally would rather suffer the pay cut but the single nightstop longrange would ruin the very thing i joined for (apart from sreving our customers,naturally!!).
Nightstop GIG anyone? really exciting .
My only hope is that this is bravado and behind the scenes a better offer will be made and we will all roll over and accept.
BA is not going to be a happy place to work in for a while,life is short,i'm not sure if ill stick around for ever at this rate .
The brutal reality is that there are thousands of perfectly capable who would step straight into uor shoes ,therein lies the problem.
This feels unfair and it is ,how we deal with this as a group (BA) will be a test of us all.
Go easy out there............
PS ,im a "flight deck" but very supportive of our crew
Nightstop GIG anyone? really exciting .
My only hope is that this is bravado and behind the scenes a better offer will be made and we will all roll over and accept.
BA is not going to be a happy place to work in for a while,life is short,i'm not sure if ill stick around for ever at this rate .
The brutal reality is that there are thousands of perfectly capable who would step straight into uor shoes ,therein lies the problem.
This feels unfair and it is ,how we deal with this as a group (BA) will be a test of us all.
Go easy out there............
PS ,im a "flight deck" but very supportive of our crew
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Andy S:
Not everybody makes rational decisions. Human beings are not machines.
Emotions cloud everybodys judgement whether it be rage and anger or lust and envy.
You may not understand it but it exists in all of us. Whether you like it or not some people will bring the world crashing down around them and sod the consequences.
I don't understand this mentality
Emotions cloud everybodys judgement whether it be rage and anger or lust and envy.
You may not understand it but it exists in all of us. Whether you like it or not some people will bring the world crashing down around them and sod the consequences.
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I see. So the Newfleet idea hasn't gone away at all, it's just morphed into everybody being forced onto Newfleet terms.
PPRuNe Person
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This could be described as the 'Big Bang'. 
Is everyone forced onto it or is this just for new joiners and those seeking promotion? Sorry if being dull, jetlagged.
Many of these proposed t's & c's are similar to those 'enjoyed' by crew elsewhere.
Is everyone forced onto it or is this just for new joiners and those seeking promotion? Sorry if being dull, jetlagged.
Many of these proposed t's & c's are similar to those 'enjoyed' by crew elsewhere.