BA and Project Columbus III
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FWIW I think I know who GG is and used to work with her at Gatwick - she is indeed crew if I am right - difference of opinion to yours does not mean she has to be management.......
(edited to add as I remember there were many crew at LGW who share her opinions).
SP/delta - I don't want to see you guys/gals drastically worse off but I don't see the issue with working harder or smarter to protect the things you currently have while maybe shedding those things (such as the 2 night rest after diversion) which really aren't protecting you from anything so much as causing costs/disruption to the paying customer to rise.
As for New Fleet it was inevitable that something like this would come along one day and I fear there is little you will be able to do about it apart from coming to some legal understanding with the company about how it will affect the old fleets. That however will require an open and honest engagement with the IR team and Unite.
(edited to add as I remember there were many crew at LGW who share her opinions).
SP/delta - I don't want to see you guys/gals drastically worse off but I don't see the issue with working harder or smarter to protect the things you currently have while maybe shedding those things (such as the 2 night rest after diversion) which really aren't protecting you from anything so much as causing costs/disruption to the paying customer to rise.
As for New Fleet it was inevitable that something like this would come along one day and I fear there is little you will be able to do about it apart from coming to some legal understanding with the company about how it will affect the old fleets. That however will require an open and honest engagement with the IR team and Unite.
Last edited by Matt101; 23rd Jun 2009 at 15:26.
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"Difference of opinion"..........you are not allowed to have one of those if you are a BASSA member.
We are effectively being bullied from the briefing room till we get off if you speak up with a "different" view to the BASSA line.
We are effectively being bullied from the briefing room till we get off if you speak up with a "different" view to the BASSA line.
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Time to review what business leaders think of Wille Walsh
What entrepreneurs think of Willie Walsh - Real Business
Oh dear Carnage, not such a good idea after all to work for free. Read this and then put your head back in the sand., fingers over your ears and go La La La La La La La
What entrepreneurs think of Willie Walsh - Real Business
Oh dear Carnage, not such a good idea after all to work for free. Read this and then put your head back in the sand., fingers over your ears and go La La La La La La La
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Deltaguy, if you have issues with me and my posts, please pm me. You may or may not believe my position in the company, which for clarity is purser at LGW, but that's your perogative I suppose.
Gg
Edited to say the same goes to SP.
Matt101, I don't believe I've flown with you, but if you care to pm me as well, we can figure that one out easily
Gg
Edited to say the same goes to SP.
Matt101, I don't believe I've flown with you, but if you care to pm me as well, we can figure that one out easily
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SP, it doesn't matter what entrepreneurs think of Willie Walsh.
He is the incumbent CEO. Get used to it. Move on. Adapt. Think. Plan.
Oh, and BASSA, stop the hysterics, and negotiate a deal that we can accept, and that keeps us in the Cabin, and in business.
He is the incumbent CEO. Get used to it. Move on. Adapt. Think. Plan.
Oh, and BASSA, stop the hysterics, and negotiate a deal that we can accept, and that keeps us in the Cabin, and in business.
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Unfortunately BASSA and some crew have been very naive since SFG was introduced. Didn't they think for a second it would come to LHR if it was successful at Gatters?
I would love to keep our terms and conditions but due to the current circumstances I will accept a change and at least have a job to go to.
I would love to keep our terms and conditions but due to the current circumstances I will accept a change and at least have a job to go to.
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Carnage #1066
You don't work in marketing for BA do you? 
I should point out that I now live in Dublin, so my SH choice is Aer Lingus or Ryanair. I agree that Ryanair aren't cheaper. They've forced everyone else to lower fares, which is good, but personally I think Ryanair has passed its usefullness now. I go to some lengths to avoid them, eg when I go to Aberdeen I now fly with Aer Lingus to Edinburgh and hire a car! Bit more expensive but also less unpleasant.
I'm not that fussed about getting fed and watered on short haul. I can use the lounge with Aer Lingus, so get something to eat and drink there before I get on the plane. Not as good as the BA lounges, I have to admit. I remember getting bacon sarnies and champagne in there with some fondness!
I hear what you're saying re T5. The problem for me is that I have to transit from T1 Domestic gates 80-90, which is a nightmare. Last time I did it (to T4 - pre T5) it took longer to get between terminals than it did to fly from Dublin. If I'd booked the DUB-LHR connection suggested by the BA web site I'd have missed my flight to Mumbai. Fortunately I ignored the BA suggestion, and booked an earlier DUB-LHR flight. Good decision considering I had to get the Tube to Hatton Cross and then one back to T4 in order to get between the terminals. Result? I decided to try transiting Schipol next time I flew East, and have not had a problem since.
T5 may well be great, but I've now had three years of acceptable experience away from LHR, so feel no inclination to go back to the kip that is Heathrow! This is indicative of the problem BA has, I think. It has alienated passengers over several years and now we don't see a good reason to risk using them again. My own catalogue of horrors comprises 4x lost luggage (3 on successive trips between LHR and Scotland in my pre-Ireland days), the aforementioned nightmare T1-T4 transfer, and a 12+ hour flight back from Tokyo with no catering, courtesy of one of BA's many industrial disputes. That last one was on a £4k CW ticket incidentally. It's not exactly indicative of great customer service is it?
I should point out that I now live in Dublin, so my SH choice is Aer Lingus or Ryanair. I agree that Ryanair aren't cheaper. They've forced everyone else to lower fares, which is good, but personally I think Ryanair has passed its usefullness now. I go to some lengths to avoid them, eg when I go to Aberdeen I now fly with Aer Lingus to Edinburgh and hire a car! Bit more expensive but also less unpleasant.
I'm not that fussed about getting fed and watered on short haul. I can use the lounge with Aer Lingus, so get something to eat and drink there before I get on the plane. Not as good as the BA lounges, I have to admit. I remember getting bacon sarnies and champagne in there with some fondness!
I hear what you're saying re T5. The problem for me is that I have to transit from T1 Domestic gates 80-90, which is a nightmare. Last time I did it (to T4 - pre T5) it took longer to get between terminals than it did to fly from Dublin. If I'd booked the DUB-LHR connection suggested by the BA web site I'd have missed my flight to Mumbai. Fortunately I ignored the BA suggestion, and booked an earlier DUB-LHR flight. Good decision considering I had to get the Tube to Hatton Cross and then one back to T4 in order to get between the terminals. Result? I decided to try transiting Schipol next time I flew East, and have not had a problem since.
T5 may well be great, but I've now had three years of acceptable experience away from LHR, so feel no inclination to go back to the kip that is Heathrow! This is indicative of the problem BA has, I think. It has alienated passengers over several years and now we don't see a good reason to risk using them again. My own catalogue of horrors comprises 4x lost luggage (3 on successive trips between LHR and Scotland in my pre-Ireland days), the aforementioned nightmare T1-T4 transfer, and a 12+ hour flight back from Tokyo with no catering, courtesy of one of BA's many industrial disputes. That last one was on a £4k CW ticket incidentally. It's not exactly indicative of great customer service is it?
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No Andy. Quite clearly the CEO of British Airways is a laughing stock as far as those entrepreneurs are concerned.
He has been called "idiotic" by Stephen Archer. "This move reeks of panic" he adds.
Stephen Bentley also agrees that Walsh has made "an idiotic move"
Brett Raynes MD of Backup says: "Before BA takes these drastic steps, it may be easier for the company to look at efficiency improvements first – and that’s not a euphemism for job cuts,”
David Readman a personnel professional states this has :“all been done from the hip and will cause enormous loss of trust in Willie Walsh and his position as head of one of Britain’s biggest enterprises.”
BASSA have certainly got their work cut out dealing with a CEO and management who are so publicly ridiculed for their ineptness.
Now this Charlie Mullins knows a thing or two about running a business:
Mullins blasts British Airways - Real Business
When is Walsh going to launch a Rights Issue to raise money for the downturn? It should not all be down to the staff when the shareholders potentially have so much to gain.
He has been called "idiotic" by Stephen Archer. "This move reeks of panic" he adds.
Stephen Bentley also agrees that Walsh has made "an idiotic move"
Brett Raynes MD of Backup says: "Before BA takes these drastic steps, it may be easier for the company to look at efficiency improvements first – and that’s not a euphemism for job cuts,”
David Readman a personnel professional states this has :“all been done from the hip and will cause enormous loss of trust in Willie Walsh and his position as head of one of Britain’s biggest enterprises.”
BASSA have certainly got their work cut out dealing with a CEO and management who are so publicly ridiculed for their ineptness.
Now this Charlie Mullins knows a thing or two about running a business:
Mullins blasts British Airways - Real Business
When is Walsh going to launch a Rights Issue to raise money for the downturn? It should not all be down to the staff when the shareholders potentially have so much to gain.
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SP, stop WW bashing, and move on.
BASSA have had the lowdown on the company financial details for a couple of weeks now..........when are they going to let you and me know how things are?
BASSA have had the lowdown on the company financial details for a couple of weeks now..........when are they going to let you and me know how things are?
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SP,
In a recent post, you wrote:
"Brett Raynes MD of Backup says: "Before BA takes these drastic steps, it may be easier for the company to look at efficiency improvements first – and that’s not a euphemism for job cuts,” "
That is what the company has been trying to do, but Bassa is refusing to negotiate on an adult level...
Gg
In a recent post, you wrote:
"Brett Raynes MD of Backup says: "Before BA takes these drastic steps, it may be easier for the company to look at efficiency improvements first – and that’s not a euphemism for job cuts,” "
That is what the company has been trying to do, but Bassa is refusing to negotiate on an adult level...
Gg
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GG. Where BASSA and BA disagree is over the Single Fleet and the prospect of new recruits as other crew are made redundant.
BASSA are not refusing to negotiate. Why would you as a Psr at LGW, have access to information where you can comment on whether the discussions are adult or not?
BASSA are not refusing to negotiate. Why would you as a Psr at LGW, have access to information where you can comment on whether the discussions are adult or not?
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SP and GG, lets face it, we are getting no information...........well other than the update date 14 June........which was basic vitriole without any real information..........again!!
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Andy in negotiations when there is so much at stake, you will not hear much about what is going on as the whole situation is so delicate and potentially volatile.
It is nothing to do with holding back information from the membership. It is par for the course. Sit tight.
It is nothing to do with holding back information from the membership. It is par for the course. Sit tight.
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SP #1086
Can you honestly say you've ever heard of any of the "business leaders" quoted? The only one I know of is the one who started it all off: Mullins of Pimlico Plumbers. His company is a bit like BA: expensive. You'll find as many recent complaints about PP on blagger.com as you've managed to find via google saying how bad WW is. If this is the limit of "business leader" criticism of WW, then he must be doing an even better job than I thought.
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SP, yes it is holding back information!!
Lizanne has had the BALPA document for days, yet the full extent hasnt been given to us. We are led along to believe that it is a 'sweetheardt' deal.
BASSA has seen the figures, but still wastes time lambasting Walsh, fines, and fuel hedging.
Lets just suppose they pull a rabbit out of a hat, and can get a deal which allows 2000 Voluntary Redundancies but also involves salary cuts and changes to working practices, but required an acceptance that the company is in the poo.............surely there is no way that they could manage to change the thinking of us members.................because up until now, they have only effectively managed to do name calling.
Lizanne has had the BALPA document for days, yet the full extent hasnt been given to us. We are led along to believe that it is a 'sweetheardt' deal.
BASSA has seen the figures, but still wastes time lambasting Walsh, fines, and fuel hedging.
Lets just suppose they pull a rabbit out of a hat, and can get a deal which allows 2000 Voluntary Redundancies but also involves salary cuts and changes to working practices, but required an acceptance that the company is in the poo.............surely there is no way that they could manage to change the thinking of us members.................because up until now, they have only effectively managed to do name calling.
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SP - you're posts are starting to sound as erratic as the behaviour you think Willie Walsh is displaying!!! Anyway who are these nobodys in your linked page? I've never heard of any of them! Not exactly captains of industry are they? I'm sure WW will be devastated that the head of Pimlico Plumbers has had a pop at him. You're really plumbing the depths now!
JP - no I don't work in BA marketing!! But I have had plenty of exposure to the popular myths regarding BAs performance at LHR and so tend to have the facts readily to mind! I recognise that if you're flying from Dublin then a transfer at T5 isn't going to be efficient for you and the whole T1-T4 transfer situation was never great for anyone, I know that from personal experience. All I can say is that it's a lot better now than it used to be and if you happen to be going through T5 for whatever reason you might be pleasantly surprised. You can even take the HEX free of charge between T1 and T5 if you don't fancy waiting for a bus!
(PS It's probably of little consequence so far down the road but the lack of catering was a Gate Gourmet dispute, not a BA one. Unfortunately any airline could be affected in the same way if a key supplier suddenly stops working.)
JP - no I don't work in BA marketing!! But I have had plenty of exposure to the popular myths regarding BAs performance at LHR and so tend to have the facts readily to mind! I recognise that if you're flying from Dublin then a transfer at T5 isn't going to be efficient for you and the whole T1-T4 transfer situation was never great for anyone, I know that from personal experience. All I can say is that it's a lot better now than it used to be and if you happen to be going through T5 for whatever reason you might be pleasantly surprised. You can even take the HEX free of charge between T1 and T5 if you don't fancy waiting for a bus!
(PS It's probably of little consequence so far down the road but the lack of catering was a Gate Gourmet dispute, not a BA one. Unfortunately any airline could be affected in the same way if a key supplier suddenly stops working.)
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SP, Balpa gave BASSA a heads up on the state of the company finances. It should hardly have come as a big surprise, just about every airline in the world is bleeding cash at the moment.
BASSA kicked off with their mantra of 'temporary problem, temporary solution. After that they have pig headedly refused to discuss anything further using the 'we've offered a solution, if they won't take it that's their fault' line of negotiation.
What people think of Willie Walsh's style is irrelevant. I don't think he has become CEO of a major airline at his age without having some business nounce. He is admired by the investors and the shareholders, anything else is mere fluff.
I feel there is a deeper reason behind his playing of the position of BA in the press and I feel it might well have a legal slant. As everyone on the CC forum likes to remind flight crew of the Open Skies mess I will admit that BALPA never saw the legal right hook coming and were knocked out by it. Surely that should be a warning to BASSA. There is a lot of behind the scenes manoeuvring going on by BA and BASSA are standing in the firing line. Various bits of paper work have been filed, the 'serious and special reasons' are in the public domain and the deadline approaches.
Remember that when BASSA prints the strike ballot.
BASSA kicked off with their mantra of 'temporary problem, temporary solution. After that they have pig headedly refused to discuss anything further using the 'we've offered a solution, if they won't take it that's their fault' line of negotiation.
What people think of Willie Walsh's style is irrelevant. I don't think he has become CEO of a major airline at his age without having some business nounce. He is admired by the investors and the shareholders, anything else is mere fluff.
I feel there is a deeper reason behind his playing of the position of BA in the press and I feel it might well have a legal slant. As everyone on the CC forum likes to remind flight crew of the Open Skies mess I will admit that BALPA never saw the legal right hook coming and were knocked out by it. Surely that should be a warning to BASSA. There is a lot of behind the scenes manoeuvring going on by BA and BASSA are standing in the firing line. Various bits of paper work have been filed, the 'serious and special reasons' are in the public domain and the deadline approaches.
Remember that when BASSA prints the strike ballot.
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SP #1092
"When is Walsh going to launch a Rights Issue to raise money for the downturn? It should not all be down to the staff when the shareholders potentially have so much to gain"
You may be interested to know that BA's share price high occurred in Q1:07, when it reached 578p. Yesterday it closed at 125p, a fall of almost 80% from the high. Stockmarkets are generally down from early-07. However, BA has underperformed the FTSE All Share by 25% in the last year. That's not very different to other full service airlines in Europe versus their wide market benchmarks.
BA paid a dividend in the year to 3/08, the first time since 2001. The dividend was cancelled in the year ended 3/09, and only one analyst expects it to be reinstated before 2012.
There isn't much in those numbers to suggest shareholders will be eager for more BA at the moment. Any such issue would have to be at a deep discount to ensure it was taken up or could be sold to new shareholders.
Will WW make such an issue? Yes I think he may well want to do so. Why? Because BA is heavily geared and the position will worsen with further losses forecast for the year to 3/2010. In addition, I think BA is more heavily geared than competitors, though I'm not entirely sure. What does WW need to do to make a rights issue appealling? He needs to show a likely improvement in operational efficiency which means, basically, getting more of each £ of revenue down to bottom line profitability. That's not just now in the downturn, but in future when revenue improves. How does he achieve it? Partly by looking for cost reductions and greater operational flexibility, eg by re-negotiating staff operating conditions.
You may be interested to know that BA's share price high occurred in Q1:07, when it reached 578p. Yesterday it closed at 125p, a fall of almost 80% from the high. Stockmarkets are generally down from early-07. However, BA has underperformed the FTSE All Share by 25% in the last year. That's not very different to other full service airlines in Europe versus their wide market benchmarks.
BA paid a dividend in the year to 3/08, the first time since 2001. The dividend was cancelled in the year ended 3/09, and only one analyst expects it to be reinstated before 2012.
There isn't much in those numbers to suggest shareholders will be eager for more BA at the moment. Any such issue would have to be at a deep discount to ensure it was taken up or could be sold to new shareholders.
Will WW make such an issue? Yes I think he may well want to do so. Why? Because BA is heavily geared and the position will worsen with further losses forecast for the year to 3/2010. In addition, I think BA is more heavily geared than competitors, though I'm not entirely sure. What does WW need to do to make a rights issue appealling? He needs to show a likely improvement in operational efficiency which means, basically, getting more of each £ of revenue down to bottom line profitability. That's not just now in the downturn, but in future when revenue improves. How does he achieve it? Partly by looking for cost reductions and greater operational flexibility, eg by re-negotiating staff operating conditions.