Finn47

Number of injured now reported as 47

47 injured on Northwest Airlines plane due to turbulence Japan Today: Japan News and Discussion

vanHorck

It is stupidity of people not to wear their seatbelts as much as possible, despite the recommendations given during the safety briefing.

But there is another side to this story.... Especially on short haul flights, i see the crew keep on the safety belts signs on much longer than necessary, just to give the CC some time without too much "hinderance" from the SLF (!).

This is a psychological issue. Many people fly often these days and perceive this secondary role of the fasten seat-belts sign, and this therefore reduces their safety urgency.

I therefore believe the crews should only use that sign for safety purposes.

flapsforty

The crew should only switch on the FSB for safety purposes should they?
Thank you for stating the glaringly obvious vanHorck. Very useful.

You see the crew keep on the safety belts signs on much longer than necessary, just to give the CC some time without "hinderance" from the SLF, do you?
How do you see that?
From seat 7b you can read the flight plan and hear reports from aircraft ahead?
You wouldn´t just assume would you??

And once you have passed your qualified judgement on the length of time the FSB sign is on, you then know it is to keep the SLF out of the CC´s hair?
How do you know that then vanHorck?
The CC told you?
The pilots did a PA to that effect?
Your superior SLF/Seneca pilot judgement tells you so?
Or are you just assuming again?

I have seen what you describe happen twice in 20+ years; both times when the situation was about to get dangerously out of hand in the cabin.
Never to keep the aisle free of pax so we could serve a meal.



When it comes to the habit in some companies of keeping the FSB sign on much longer than is enforcable in the cabin, yes, that is a self defeating, legal cover-your-@ss exercise.
Still has nothing to do with giving the CC some free working space.

Basil

vanHorck,
Now you know why we don't argue with senior cabin crew

John_Mc

flapsforty,

Why are you so aggressive in your tone? There's no need for it...

I'm a first time poster, but a long time lurker and the attitude of some of the people on here amazes me sometimes.

bossan

I agree with John Mc

Van Hork's comments are not without merits and should not provoke such a harsh reaction.

Paticularly so, if it comes from a moderator.

5Y NJB

I can understand flapsforty's frustration. Every time an incident like this is posted here, the same old nonsense about

(a) daft pax who don't observe the seatbelt signs; and
(b) CC conspiring to keep pax in their seat

comes up. As CC it must get a bit boring. Particularly if (b) is a load of old b*ll*cks, and (a) is stating the blindingly obvious.

Just my 2c

vanHorck

Flapsfourty

Sorry I offended you....

Perhaps you sit too much in the front and not enough in the back....

I am a long time SLF (intensive), I have many ATP friends and I am an active MEP PPL myself

That's why I started by saying the obvious, to always keep the belt on when possible even without the sign.

Not all pilots do keep the signs on for longer than needed but some do, perhaps at the request of the CC or perhaps in an attempt by the flight crew to accommodate the CC without request.

Those that do make a mistake because indeed, the SLF cannot evaluate the necessity and there will always be instances when this necessity does not become obvious, leading to wrong assumptions by the SLF. All the more reason to avoid keeping the sign on without safety necessity, given how the psyche of SLF works.....

Finally I hope you're not as pedantic as you came across, we're just exchanging views here and your view and mine are both equally honorable.

Basil, Bossan and John, thx for your comments, there are many nice people in aviation, I know!
5Y thank you for your input. Perhaps you guys could read again my post in the vein it was intended.

fmgc

I think that there is an issue with the litigious society that we live in these days.

I do think that some have the seat belt signs on much more than we used to. What this does is "cry wolf" so the SLF don't see the seat belt signs as being as important as they used to be.

DC-ATE

You wanna know why the Seat Belt Sign is ON many times when you SLFs don't think it should be? It's because no one yet has devised a way to "See" Clear Air Turbulance, and the Front End Crew is looking out for your butt! If it isn't on and turbulence is encountered, then you try and sue someone. If it IS on and turbulence is encountered, you sue anyway. I say leave the darn sign on ALL the time.

Flintstone

Here we go again. You know what they say about a little knowledge being a dangerous thing don't you?

It amazes me that anyone would even think of arguing against wearing a seatbelt at all times whether the sign tells you to or whether you make that decision yourself. The 'I'm-too-cool-for-a-seatbelt' brigade can be the first to hit the ceiling in CAT for all I care just as long as they don't come down on me.

If someone's too stupid to take such a simple precaution there's a good chance they'll try to blame (and sue) someone else when they get hurt. You can't blame the crew for covering themselves. Flaps and other experienced CC have been dealing with these morons for years so their reaction is somewhat understandable.

Final 3 Greens

Well I have heard CC ask the FD guys to do it on the interphone (you wold be surprised what pax can hear), more than occasionally.

Not typically on European scheduled airlines, though.

And I agree with Van Horck, it does reduce the effectiveness of the sign.

However, this is nothing to do with the concept of keeping your belt fastened all the time you are in the seat, which is common sense and against which there is no rational argument.

5Y NJB

Unfortunately, common sense and rationality mysteriously appear to desert a large majority of pax the moment they board.

Guava Tree

Post #8 from Flaps Forty appears to be out of order even allowing for the possibility that he may be now, or once have been, senior cabin crew,.

vanHorck

It seems that i have opened up a can of worms here, more or less off thread... Sorry for this.

I have encountered severe turbulence as a SLF a couple of times and the CC were the ones to suffer most. I am not somebody who considers CC or flying crew cattle, nor do i wish to be considered cattle when i help paying the bills.

A bit of respect for other people's opinions, especially when the post was intended to increase safety would not go amiss...

Mods are not above the rest of us and the post I received from flapsfourty was completely wrong in terms of tone. Not called for.

It seems I am not wrong, considering other posters. I too have heard CC call for extended Seat belts on, so it IS an issue and should be addressed.

I shall end with the start of my original post: My experience has taught me that the briefing by CC is correct: wear seat-belts always, certainly when the sign is on, but also when it is not on

A300Man

flapsforty, with all due respect - and I have the UTMOST respect for Cabin Crew - but your tone in your reply was a bit o.t.t.. Sorry.

Let's hope that the injured NW folks are all ok and nothing too serious and that we can steer the discussion back on topic, i.e. the specific incident over Narita today.

Avman

Similarly out-of-order rant by TightSlot recently:

http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf...legal-not.html

I'm thankful and appreciative of those who volunteer to moderate forums and I do understand how frustrating it can sometimes be. However, if you're going to do it you must be able to keep your cool, remain objective and lead by example.

Perhaps there are times when they moderate after a long exhausting trip with grumpy pax? Best sleep it off first.

demomonkey

vanHorck

You really are good at calming situations down and winning people over. I'd stick with the PPL myself. A little knowledge doesn't go a long way, or to put it another way: you know enough to be dangerous.

Basil

Perhaps worth repeating that, although I spent forty years in aviation, I'm still not too cool to read the safety briefing card and keep the seatbelt fastened whether the FSB light is on or not.
Another thought is that, even if you are strapped in, a 90kg unsecured passenger landing on you could spoil your trip. OTOH a 60kg unsecured stewardess may be more agreeable (am I allowed to say that?)

5Y NJB

Only if you qualify it with " / unsecured steward" for the birds amongst us