How do you guys deal with this?
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How do you guys deal with this?
I have been a PU for some time now. However i have recently come across JU's who undermine a PU's authority (mines) i.e. i make a decision, they talk back and disagree even if i am making that decision based on the SEP manual/ CP's decision. When asking "have you done the paperwork" the reply is "oh you know i don't like to do the paperwork" (this is when the JU got to the crew room before me). I ask "can you do a gash please" the reply is "we just done one" (although it's noticeable the cabin is very messy).
Also i have been threatened i will be reported and demoted (coming from a JU) because i asked the JU's to do something and they didn't agree because "you don't do it, why should I?"
This is getting to me and it's ever so frustrating. I keep thinking i'll be "invited" to the HQ for tea but bring my own biscuits; although my safety record is spotless and i even saved someone's life inflight (not bragging but happy i was there to help), i turn around the a/c in record time and i do my best to provide the best customer service, i feel threatened and some days don't enjoy my job which makes everything seem and feel pure pain.
My problem is some JU's i am rostered to fly with every now and then. They bring a whole new meaning to the word "bully" and this is really bad coming from me as i am a very strong opinionated woman who goes by "the book", does "by the book"; i am not a pushover.
So i was wondering what are your opinions on this and how would you deal with it?
KFTD
Also i have been threatened i will be reported and demoted (coming from a JU) because i asked the JU's to do something and they didn't agree because "you don't do it, why should I?"
This is getting to me and it's ever so frustrating. I keep thinking i'll be "invited" to the HQ for tea but bring my own biscuits; although my safety record is spotless and i even saved someone's life inflight (not bragging but happy i was there to help), i turn around the a/c in record time and i do my best to provide the best customer service, i feel threatened and some days don't enjoy my job which makes everything seem and feel pure pain.
My problem is some JU's i am rostered to fly with every now and then. They bring a whole new meaning to the word "bully" and this is really bad coming from me as i am a very strong opinionated woman who goes by "the book", does "by the book"; i am not a pushover.
So i was wondering what are your opinions on this and how would you deal with it?
KFTD
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I assume that because you say you "go by the book" then everything you ask the crew to do is within defined rolls for the positions they are working onboard?
If so, and the crew are not doing what they should be doing, take them into the office when you get back and get your management to read them the riot act. Or, if your roll as purser allows you to do an assessment on the crew, then assess them and mark them down for everything they do wrong and make particular notes about them not supporting the instructions given by you the purser.
IF the problems start at the briefing table and they are arguing over the SEP manual saying that they would do things different, then offload them.
You need to be assertive or you will get the reputation for being a pushover by the junior crew.
If so, and the crew are not doing what they should be doing, take them into the office when you get back and get your management to read them the riot act. Or, if your roll as purser allows you to do an assessment on the crew, then assess them and mark them down for everything they do wrong and make particular notes about them not supporting the instructions given by you the purser.
IF the problems start at the briefing table and they are arguing over the SEP manual saying that they would do things different, then offload them.
You need to be assertive or you will get the reputation for being a pushover by the junior crew.
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Hello KFTD, since not all of us are from the UK, could you be kind enough to explain the meaning of the following terms please, just to make sure we all understand what you are saying rather than guess at it?
PU, JUs, do a gash?
This tells what happened to me 2 nights ago and how I dealt with it.
Didn't like doing it, have never needed to do something like it in the almost 8 years I have been (Senior) Purser and trust that it will be at least another 8 years until next time.
It is one way out of many to deal with colleagues not doing their job properly.
And IMO only acceptable after all normal means like coaching, correcting and asking nicely, setting a good example and finally insisting strongly have failed.
Personally I don't believe in 'going to the office'; what happens on the aircraft should preferably be solved on the aircraft. Not so much for the benefit of your crew, but for your own.
If you fail to solve a situation on board and need help from a pen-pusher, this will undermine your self confidence.
Which will be noticeable for others.
Which will invite the pushing-to-see-where-the-boundary-runs next time you have a difficult individual/crew.
Which will make you even more insecure ... etc etc etc
That's what I think, but maybe it only works that way for me.
One more thing. You write that you are a strong opinionated woman. So am I, and I have learned the hard way that being such a person can rub others seriously the wrong way. It doesn't help if you are 100% correct in what you say and do but fail to turn your crew into a team that is happy to work hard for you. You can't do it alone, not ever.
A spoon full of sugar and all that ...
Carrot and stick is another one that I often use succesfully.
Being a bit less 'right' and bit more flexible will often be more effctive in the long run. A good team is mainly self-correcting anyway.
And for the very rare ones hell bent on making things difficult; give them all you have until they cry for mummy!
Interesting thread starter.
PU, JUs, do a gash?
This tells what happened to me 2 nights ago and how I dealt with it.
Didn't like doing it, have never needed to do something like it in the almost 8 years I have been (Senior) Purser and trust that it will be at least another 8 years until next time.
It is one way out of many to deal with colleagues not doing their job properly.
And IMO only acceptable after all normal means like coaching, correcting and asking nicely, setting a good example and finally insisting strongly have failed.
Personally I don't believe in 'going to the office'; what happens on the aircraft should preferably be solved on the aircraft. Not so much for the benefit of your crew, but for your own.
If you fail to solve a situation on board and need help from a pen-pusher, this will undermine your self confidence.
Which will be noticeable for others.
Which will invite the pushing-to-see-where-the-boundary-runs next time you have a difficult individual/crew.
Which will make you even more insecure ... etc etc etc
That's what I think, but maybe it only works that way for me.
One more thing. You write that you are a strong opinionated woman. So am I, and I have learned the hard way that being such a person can rub others seriously the wrong way. It doesn't help if you are 100% correct in what you say and do but fail to turn your crew into a team that is happy to work hard for you. You can't do it alone, not ever.
A spoon full of sugar and all that ...
Carrot and stick is another one that I often use succesfully.
Being a bit less 'right' and bit more flexible will often be more effctive in the long run. A good team is mainly self-correcting anyway.
And for the very rare ones hell bent on making things difficult; give them all you have until they cry for mummy!
Interesting thread starter.
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KungFU, I notice that you have written " I TURN THE AIRCRAFT AROUND ON TIME", and " I SAVED A PERSONS LIFE". I cannot comment on the life saving as I was not there but I am sure your crew were assisting as they have been trained and also the phrase I turn the a/c around on time, I am sure you do not do this single handed but with the aid of your crew members.??
My point is being a team player is what its all about in the cabin, especialy if the SH*T hits the fan.
If you feel that a member of your crew is not pulling his or her weight then I am sure you have a procedure in place to deal with it. Have you spoken to the offending crew member to see why they refuse to help you as you have requested, you never know that they may not be the only one who thinks YOUR not pulling your weight. Being a PU is not about lording it over your fellow c/c members but getting them working with you as a team. You have to remember that you were once a J/U and remember how nice it was to work with a PU that did a gash themselves and gave you 10 minutes to eat your sandwhich without moaning.
However in any job your always going to get the odd bad apple and if the problem continues then arrange a chat with your line manager to make them aware and if the problem continues keep the line manager updated and I am sure the correct action will be taken.
My point is being a team player is what its all about in the cabin, especialy if the SH*T hits the fan.
If you feel that a member of your crew is not pulling his or her weight then I am sure you have a procedure in place to deal with it. Have you spoken to the offending crew member to see why they refuse to help you as you have requested, you never know that they may not be the only one who thinks YOUR not pulling your weight. Being a PU is not about lording it over your fellow c/c members but getting them working with you as a team. You have to remember that you were once a J/U and remember how nice it was to work with a PU that did a gash themselves and gave you 10 minutes to eat your sandwhich without moaning.
However in any job your always going to get the odd bad apple and if the problem continues then arrange a chat with your line manager to make them aware and if the problem continues keep the line manager updated and I am sure the correct action will be taken.
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Very good point Burn. I do apologize for the lack of information but i guess it was just me letting all the steam out.
Yes I remember when i was a JU. And i was a very good one! (no self a$$ kissing, it's just the plain truth). I am that kind of person who gets the job done, even if it's not "my job".
The moment when I asked the JU to do a gash was in a very short flight when i was doing the paperwork, otherwise i would be more than happy to do it myself and just get on with it.
As for saving a pax's life, you are right again. I was assisted by my No2 who was absolutelly brilliant however i don't get to work with this CC as there was a promotion to CSS that landed in it's Pigeon Hole.
It's not a general situation however i seem to have the same problem with the, rather same JU's. I don't know if it's because they are rather newish or because they simply don't like me. Another example would be that 2 of my PU mentors are English, and i am not. Point being that these 2 particularly lovely ladies never seemed to have these kind of problems, whilst i have them almost everyday. I strongly believe that people understand the words coming out of my mouth and my English is not "funny" (none of my pax ever complained, some even said they couldn't really place my accent, am i scottish?)
Any advice/opinion is more than welcomed
KFTD
Yes I remember when i was a JU. And i was a very good one! (no self a$$ kissing, it's just the plain truth). I am that kind of person who gets the job done, even if it's not "my job".
The moment when I asked the JU to do a gash was in a very short flight when i was doing the paperwork, otherwise i would be more than happy to do it myself and just get on with it.
As for saving a pax's life, you are right again. I was assisted by my No2 who was absolutelly brilliant however i don't get to work with this CC as there was a promotion to CSS that landed in it's Pigeon Hole.
It's not a general situation however i seem to have the same problem with the, rather same JU's. I don't know if it's because they are rather newish or because they simply don't like me. Another example would be that 2 of my PU mentors are English, and i am not. Point being that these 2 particularly lovely ladies never seemed to have these kind of problems, whilst i have them almost everyday. I strongly believe that people understand the words coming out of my mouth and my English is not "funny" (none of my pax ever complained, some even said they couldn't really place my accent, am i scottish?
)Any advice/opinion is more than welcomed
KFTD
Last edited by KungFuTrolleyDolly; 18th Jul 2008 at 21:58. Reason: Just to add that this problem has been brought to the management's attention. Unfortunately, 3 weeks on, no response
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I don't know what the procedures are at your airline KFTD, but at the airline I work for, when going for promotion to PU, we have to do a role play..the role play being a conflict between 2 crew members. This should be something that should be "taught" to all PU I think.
As someone else has said, I prefer to keep what happens on the aircraft, on the aircraft and not bring it to the office. If you happen to fly with these people again, my advice would be to take them to one side and just ask them what the problem is. Or ask them if things are ok...what you don't want is an atmosphere between crew members as this spread through the whole crew like wild fire!
You say they're new. I can understand how this may be a reason as well. I have flown with new crew before and it's seemed that they have found it hard to get used to the way things are done between crew members.
The role of a PU sometimes does take up a lot of time and effort and the help of crew members is always appreciated. To ask someone to do a gash I feel is not a problem in the slightest. One of the aims in a flight is to get the job done and the help of other crew members is always going to be something PU's need.
I hope this does sort itself out for you. If things persist then you need to take a FIRM step with them. Assessments, offloading (if needed).
Good luck! Let us know how it goes!
As someone else has said, I prefer to keep what happens on the aircraft, on the aircraft and not bring it to the office. If you happen to fly with these people again, my advice would be to take them to one side and just ask them what the problem is. Or ask them if things are ok...what you don't want is an atmosphere between crew members as this spread through the whole crew like wild fire!
You say they're new. I can understand how this may be a reason as well. I have flown with new crew before and it's seemed that they have found it hard to get used to the way things are done between crew members.
The role of a PU sometimes does take up a lot of time and effort and the help of crew members is always appreciated. To ask someone to do a gash I feel is not a problem in the slightest. One of the aims in a flight is to get the job done and the help of other crew members is always going to be something PU's need.
I hope this does sort itself out for you. If things persist then you need to take a FIRM step with them. Assessments, offloading (if needed).
Good luck! Let us know how it goes!
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KungFuTrolleyDolly - an interesting thread. I'd just like to draw your attention to the response given on this thread by Juud - one of our more knowledgeable and experienced members. It contains a lot of excellent advice, and the link to the other post demonstrates an intelligent response to a situation most of us Seniors have been in at one time or another.
It is slightly disappointing to see that you haven't acknowledged Juud's post, or had sufficient free time to answer the questions raised about terminology that would help others not in your airline to understand more fully what you are talking about. It's all very well going off on one about the youngsters of today, but much behavior is copied from observed behavior - we all need to ensure that the behavior observed is therefore to the highest standard.
Thanks again for starting such a useful discussion.
It is slightly disappointing to see that you haven't acknowledged Juud's post, or had sufficient free time to answer the questions raised about terminology that would help others not in your airline to understand more fully what you are talking about. It's all very well going off on one about the youngsters of today, but much behavior is copied from observed behavior - we all need to ensure that the behavior observed is therefore to the highest standard.
Thanks again for starting such a useful discussion.
Just thought I'd put some flightdeck input into this if you don't mind.
Surely, at least in flight, the authority of the PU comes indirectly from the aircraft commander (Captain). If any JUs are not complying with requests from the PU they are, per se, not obeying legal commands from the aircraft commander and are therefore in contravention of the Act!
That may be the legal position but there is also, perhaps more importantly, the CRM/Flight Safety issue. If JUs are not playing the game and questioning the authority of the PU, can they be relied upon to conduct their duties properly in the event of an in flight emergency or pax evacuation for example?
As a Captain I would want to know if JUs are not respecting the PUs authority. In short I think you need to bring this to the Commander's attention and maybe a few words from him/her would assist?
To an extent I think this is a societal/cultural issue - I hate to generalise but some people in "junior" roles seem to be strong on their "rights" but, of course, with the rights come responsibilities!!
At the end of the day if you are the PU it's your call! If you are not happy you could start by warning them that if their attitude persists you will be minded to report to higher authority or offload - sometimes a warning is all that is required!
Good Luck
Surely, at least in flight, the authority of the PU comes indirectly from the aircraft commander (Captain). If any JUs are not complying with requests from the PU they are, per se, not obeying legal commands from the aircraft commander and are therefore in contravention of the Act!
That may be the legal position but there is also, perhaps more importantly, the CRM/Flight Safety issue. If JUs are not playing the game and questioning the authority of the PU, can they be relied upon to conduct their duties properly in the event of an in flight emergency or pax evacuation for example?
As a Captain I would want to know if JUs are not respecting the PUs authority. In short I think you need to bring this to the Commander's attention and maybe a few words from him/her would assist?
To an extent I think this is a societal/cultural issue - I hate to generalise but some people in "junior" roles seem to be strong on their "rights" but, of course, with the rights come responsibilities!!
At the end of the day if you are the PU it's your call! If you are not happy you could start by warning them that if their attitude persists you will be minded to report to higher authority or offload - sometimes a warning is all that is required!
Good Luck
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The lost art of leadership - the answers won't be found in some MBA course or from your own management team who (if they are like most airlines) tend to practice DBL (Desk Based Leadership) which centres around covering their own arse the entire time.
Whatever kind of briefing you do prior to the flight is when you can set the tone for the rest of it. If you see rolling eyes or get flippant responses, address it then and there, and they will all get the message right away. If you don't ignore the small stuff at the start, they aren't going to get worse on board the flight. You don't have to be a tyrant or start threatening people, but make it clear that you expect a certain level of maturity/responsibility from your team.
If you ask one of your juniors to do something, and their response is to ask why you aren't doing it, the worst thing you can do is actually answer their question. This means they are controlling the conversation and getting you to justify yourself to them.
The issue is not why you aren't doing the task, it's why they are refusing to do so. Address that first.
Whatever kind of briefing you do prior to the flight is when you can set the tone for the rest of it. If you see rolling eyes or get flippant responses, address it then and there, and they will all get the message right away. If you don't ignore the small stuff at the start, they aren't going to get worse on board the flight. You don't have to be a tyrant or start threatening people, but make it clear that you expect a certain level of maturity/responsibility from your team.
If you ask one of your juniors to do something, and their response is to ask why you aren't doing it, the worst thing you can do is actually answer their question. This means they are controlling the conversation and getting you to justify yourself to them.
The issue is not why you aren't doing the task, it's why they are refusing to do so. Address that first.
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KFTD, im wondering if you work for the same airline as i used to???
I was also a PU and had exactly the same problems with alot of the JU as you have mentioned. I had JU that would'nt pay attention in breifings, question everything you say, assign their own crew positions and not do what you asked of them onboard.
Unfortunately though i found it was down to age as the older JU were brilliant, it was the 18, 19 and 20 year olds with the problem...they just dont like been told what to do but i think this is a general problem with society these days!!
Others have mentioned doing assessments on these JU, i found this did'nt help because the JU in question would then slate you off to other crew because you did'nt do them a nice assessment
I never looked forward to going to work anymore cause i just found these JU hard work, so i left in the end..that was the sollution for me
I was also a PU and had exactly the same problems with alot of the JU as you have mentioned. I had JU that would'nt pay attention in breifings, question everything you say, assign their own crew positions and not do what you asked of them onboard.
Unfortunately though i found it was down to age as the older JU were brilliant, it was the 18, 19 and 20 year olds with the problem...they just dont like been told what to do but i think this is a general problem with society these days!!
Others have mentioned doing assessments on these JU, i found this did'nt help because the JU in question would then slate you off to other crew because you did'nt do them a nice assessment
I never looked forward to going to work anymore cause i just found these JU hard work, so i left in the end..that was the sollution for me
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It can be a hard job sometimes here and then, can't it?!
Juud:
Good post! Wouldn't have done it that way myself but still, respect :-)
PU: Purser = Senior Cabin Crew Member
JU: Junior = Cabin Crew
do a gash: a word merger between garbage and trash = meaning: going through the cabin collecting rubbish of passengers
KungFuTrolleyDolly:
There will always be some people who won't respect authority, and especially if you are new to the role and they know you as a Junior.
I personally believe that you will have to de-brief these people....big time! If they are giving you any more grief, then yes, it will have to be taken further. Even if you are only approaching management for advice, nothing else. But you can try lots of other things before that. I think the first thing you'll have to realize is that you can't be friends with everybody, and not everybody will like you, and your style. But what they'll have to learn is to respect you.
However, the bullying has to stop right now, and if it's that bad that you call it bullying it should be brought up with the office, and it should be reported. JU have no business to threaten you.
Anyway, what would they report you for? You say you are doing everything by the book so surely they would have nothing that could be used against you?!
That's an excellent point as well, made by Juud. Pure knowledge and being right doesn't make a good team leader. Sometimes you have to forget about being correct, and focus on what the team needs. For example, you have been working 5 hours an nobody had a chance to sit down yet. The Service standards expect you to do a gift shop service at this point. That's correct! Well, your team needs a break though. Make sure they get food or even just a cup of tea, and do a call bell gift shop instead. Fill out a form about it if you are worried about covering our back. Sometimes you have to take rules as guidelines. It doesn't even matter if you feel you could go on...of course you could....but it feels good to have a breather, and the crew will thank you for it, and will be more willing to put more hard work into the rest of the day. Make sure you sit down with them and don't work whilst they are having a break. It will make them feel guilty, and they will resent you for it.
That's obviously only an example, but the point is that being correct and by the book is not always the way to go.
Either way, I would say the situation will escalate sooner or later. If I were you I would make sure it's sooner, and under your conditions, not theirs!
Good luck!
Juud:
Good post! Wouldn't have done it that way myself but still, respect :-)
PU: Purser = Senior Cabin Crew Member
JU: Junior = Cabin Crew
do a gash: a word merger between garbage and trash = meaning: going through the cabin collecting rubbish of passengers
KungFuTrolleyDolly:
There will always be some people who won't respect authority, and especially if you are new to the role and they know you as a Junior.
I personally believe that you will have to de-brief these people....big time! If they are giving you any more grief, then yes, it will have to be taken further. Even if you are only approaching management for advice, nothing else. But you can try lots of other things before that. I think the first thing you'll have to realize is that you can't be friends with everybody, and not everybody will like you, and your style. But what they'll have to learn is to respect you.
However, the bullying has to stop right now, and if it's that bad that you call it bullying it should be brought up with the office, and it should be reported. JU have no business to threaten you.
Anyway, what would they report you for? You say you are doing everything by the book so surely they would have nothing that could be used against you?!
One more thing. You write that you are a strong opinionated woman. So am I, and I have learned the hard way that being such a person can rub others seriously the wrong way. It doesn't help if you are 100% correct in what you say and do but fail to turn your crew into a team that is happy to work hard for you. You can't do it alone, not ever.
That's obviously only an example, but the point is that being correct and by the book is not always the way to go.
Either way, I would say the situation will escalate sooner or later. If I were you I would make sure it's sooner, and under your conditions, not theirs!
Good luck!
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Why dont you show some of your Kung fu moves on your Junior Crew when they disagree.
Managing people is hard or easy, it is always down to the Manager,Watch Office and learn how not to
Managing people is hard or easy, it is always down to the Manager,Watch Office and learn how not to
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The only advice I can offer as a Junior is that we fly with so many different Seniors and they have such a massive impact on the tone of the flight. Be sure to set your expectations at the briefing, because every Senior is different.
Yes, standards should be the same - but the reality is that unless you say: Please make sure WE do a gash every x minutes, we won't know that that's what YOU expect. Be friendly and inclusive, but at the end of the day it is up to you to set the expectations.
If you encounter someone who is really rude, ask them if they're ok first - it could just be a bad day for them - and it might wake them up that they're being rude. But if they're simply a bad egg, be sure to do assessments - no-one wants to fly with people who are not part of the team, including the rest of the juniors.
Good luck!
Yes, standards should be the same - but the reality is that unless you say: Please make sure WE do a gash every x minutes, we won't know that that's what YOU expect. Be friendly and inclusive, but at the end of the day it is up to you to set the expectations.
If you encounter someone who is really rude, ask them if they're ok first - it could just be a bad day for them - and it might wake them up that they're being rude. But if they're simply a bad egg, be sure to do assessments - no-one wants to fly with people who are not part of the team, including the rest of the juniors.
Good luck!
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In the name of KFTD
Unfortunately, for some unkown reason, KFTD cannot post on this thread (maybe a ban?); however KFTD would like to thank everyone for their replies and advice, especially Juud.
Once this small technical problem is sorted KFTD will post an update to what's happened recently and how she dealt with it.
Once again many thanks
KFTD through ATS
Once this small technical problem is sorted KFTD will post an update to what's happened recently and how she dealt with it.
Once again many thanks
KFTD through ATS
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Gash - why on earth airline crew decided to refer to the collecting in of rubbish with this word I shall never know - it will only ever have one meaning in my mind. 3 years of being asked to "gash in" still makes me raise my eyebrows.
Anyway as for lazy crew (young and old - I know plenty of Seniors at my airline that require encouragement from time to time.) My suggestion is to use the facilities and systems put in place by your company to tackle these issues. Performance Management is part of your role as a Purser I assume.
Failing that ask the skipper to decend to FL100 open the rear right hand door and eject them (lazy so and so) through it.
Or offload at base, in favour of harder working standby crew, depending on how you feel that particular day.
Anyway as for lazy crew (young and old - I know plenty of Seniors at my airline that require encouragement from time to time.) My suggestion is to use the facilities and systems put in place by your company to tackle these issues. Performance Management is part of your role as a Purser I assume.
Failing that ask the skipper to decend to FL100 open the rear right hand door and eject them (lazy so and so) through it.
Or offload at base, in favour of harder working standby crew, depending on how you feel that particular day.
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Ummm Yeah!
Kung Fu!
How ironic! Do you work for one of the SE Asian airlines by any chance? because it sounds like you do: "I" turn an a/c and "I" saved a person's life... too many Is in your little team mate!
Perhaps you should change your approach and be a little bit more personable and less A-retentive...my advice for you.
All crew are trained in the same way... so there is no need for your little PU personality...best left back in old days mate.
Vanessa.
How ironic! Do you work for one of the SE Asian airlines by any chance? because it sounds like you do: "I" turn an a/c and "I" saved a person's life... too many Is in your little team mate!
Perhaps you should change your approach and be a little bit more personable and less A-retentive...my advice for you.
All crew are trained in the same way... so there is no need for your little PU personality...best left back in old days mate.
Vanessa.
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QF400
It is easy for you to make assumptions and drawing conclusions; however, since I'm your mate, here's my say love:
No, far from it. Where did you got that idea from, no clue.
Ermmm.... i don't think so. Training varies from airline to airline. Procedures are different, airline terminology is different and so on. Get my drift?
What you are saying to me is that it's me who is wrong and if a JU wants to treat me like I'm a piece of something they stepped in it's OK to do so, and forget one of the most important things in aviation: Chain of Command. (Perhaps you should read again the thread starter and the following posts....It seems that it wasn't just me having problems with few JU's hence why i asked how do other Seniors deal with a similar situation)
I'd like to thank you all for your advice. Changed a few things in how i deal with problem JU's and it works wonders. Having said that, i am pleased to find out that more of my PU colleagues followed my example; reports are being issued, procedures followed as per SEP manual and JU's sanctioned. It is a fairly rough punishment but they are learning from it and things have changed regarding their behavior towards the Seniors.
Gotta jet now but I'd like to thank you once again, your advice has been ever so helpful.
KFTD
It is easy for you to make assumptions and drawing conclusions; however, since I'm your mate, here's my say love:
Do you work for one of the SE Asian airlines by any chance
All crew are trained in the same way...
so there is no need for your little PU personality
I'd like to thank you all for your advice. Changed a few things in how i deal with problem JU's and it works wonders. Having said that, i am pleased to find out that more of my PU colleagues followed my example; reports are being issued, procedures followed as per SEP manual and JU's sanctioned. It is a fairly rough punishment but they are learning from it and things have changed regarding their behavior towards the Seniors.
Gotta jet now but I'd like to thank you once again, your advice has been ever so helpful.
KFTD
KFTD,
having just flown with a manager/supervisor who has a world of experience, and whom I have a great deal of respect - can I offer this advice -
play it cool... don't micro manage, invite others to share youre job if they are keen - if theyre lazy, have a quiet private word.
Work on a system of 2 warnings (not that you should have to).
The first is 'are you aware that...' make sure you are being reasonable!
the second is 'hey, i bought this up before, whats going on?'
the third is a formal 'not good enough - lift your game'.
Be CLEAR about your objectives and what kind of manager you are.
Stick to your word.
Most of all, don't be separate from the team. If a loo needs cleaning and its not your job, do it. Ad hoc, this is fine, and expected.
If you are continually picking up the slack, then deal with it. Its what you are paid to do.
If you are being 'bullied' - use your position to rectify the issue - and keep in mind you have to work with these people still...
having just flown with a manager/supervisor who has a world of experience, and whom I have a great deal of respect - can I offer this advice -
play it cool... don't micro manage, invite others to share youre job if they are keen - if theyre lazy, have a quiet private word.
Work on a system of 2 warnings (not that you should have to).
The first is 'are you aware that...' make sure you are being reasonable!
the second is 'hey, i bought this up before, whats going on?'
the third is a formal 'not good enough - lift your game'.
Be CLEAR about your objectives and what kind of manager you are.
Stick to your word.
Most of all, don't be separate from the team. If a loo needs cleaning and its not your job, do it. Ad hoc, this is fine, and expected.
If you are continually picking up the slack, then deal with it. Its what you are paid to do.
If you are being 'bullied' - use your position to rectify the issue - and keep in mind you have to work with these people still...
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It is true that most airlines have a clear set of practices and standards for each crew position on aircraft. I remember in Qatar each crew member seemed to have a very rigid set of procedures for both safety and service which differed slightly from another crew position and it was up to each individual crew to complete their set procedures.
Now in BA we have a very lose version of this such as No3 on 777's had Duty Free and in charge of closing drinks bars blah blah blah and looks after WT+ etc etc etc. However, I think it is probably left open to interpretation for the very reason that crew should work as a team.
A very important point to be highlighted in a briefing I feel is that of TEAM work. It should be instilled in the crew by the Senior very early on that regardless of who probably is incharge of doing whatever should that we all muck in as one and help out eachother where ever possible. For example, I was recently doing checks on the toilets in my cabin but got side tracked by a passenger who needed help filling out forms because he didnt speak enough english. As I was doing this I noticed a fellow crew member checking my toilets, all of a sudden she was getting out rubber gloves and a bio hazard bag, when I went to see what she was up doing it transpired that she was cleaning vomit from all over the toilet. She didnt have to do that, I offered to take over and she told me not to be daft and she just got stuck in!!!
Its these little acts (well in my opinion thats a huge act cos I know I personally cannot stand cleaning vomit and its the one part of the job I always do my best to get out of!!! LOL!) which can turn a tough flight into a pleasure but also has the ability to sort out the good crew from the bad.
I can tell that you are not the sort of person to avoid doing the hard work and leaving the juniors to do it but at the same time you may also need to make a point of doing something not expected of you so as to set this tone of team work amongst your charges. There will always be crew who attempt to take the piss and be lazy but it is up to you to get them motivated and it can be done so very simply without having to make an "issue" out of it. I have one colleague who includes the lazy crew in her own procedures for their benefit, for example say it was with the gash cart she would ask the lazy crew member if they would mind just doing another run through with the gash trolley cos its still a bit messy and then when he/she is done would that person like to see her complete the Voyage report or whatever for when that person goes for promotion!!!! Its amazing how little things like that can get crew motivated and leave the senior leaving the aircraft with a sense of accomplishsment!
Now in BA we have a very lose version of this such as No3 on 777's had Duty Free and in charge of closing drinks bars blah blah blah and looks after WT+ etc etc etc. However, I think it is probably left open to interpretation for the very reason that crew should work as a team.
A very important point to be highlighted in a briefing I feel is that of TEAM work. It should be instilled in the crew by the Senior very early on that regardless of who probably is incharge of doing whatever should that we all muck in as one and help out eachother where ever possible. For example, I was recently doing checks on the toilets in my cabin but got side tracked by a passenger who needed help filling out forms because he didnt speak enough english. As I was doing this I noticed a fellow crew member checking my toilets, all of a sudden she was getting out rubber gloves and a bio hazard bag, when I went to see what she was up doing it transpired that she was cleaning vomit from all over the toilet. She didnt have to do that, I offered to take over and she told me not to be daft and she just got stuck in!!!
Its these little acts (well in my opinion thats a huge act cos I know I personally cannot stand cleaning vomit and its the one part of the job I always do my best to get out of!!! LOL!) which can turn a tough flight into a pleasure but also has the ability to sort out the good crew from the bad.
I can tell that you are not the sort of person to avoid doing the hard work and leaving the juniors to do it but at the same time you may also need to make a point of doing something not expected of you so as to set this tone of team work amongst your charges. There will always be crew who attempt to take the piss and be lazy but it is up to you to get them motivated and it can be done so very simply without having to make an "issue" out of it. I have one colleague who includes the lazy crew in her own procedures for their benefit, for example say it was with the gash cart she would ask the lazy crew member if they would mind just doing another run through with the gash trolley cos its still a bit messy and then when he/she is done would that person like to see her complete the Voyage report or whatever for when that person goes for promotion!!!! Its amazing how little things like that can get crew motivated and leave the senior leaving the aircraft with a sense of accomplishsment!
