meal service on the ground
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meal service on the ground
Really random question but in the past I have not wanted to start a new topic just for this question....
Did you take the carts into the cabin whilst doing the meals on the ground?
Did you take the carts into the cabin whilst doing the meals on the ground?
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i wouldnt because i see it as a safety risk - its blocking aisles that may be required for an evacuation.
if some kind of service had to be done on the ground - i would do it by hand or not at all.
if some kind of service had to be done on the ground - i would do it by hand or not at all.
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I have to agree with ShesGreatintheGalley on this one. It would be too much of a risk to have the trolleys in the cabin whilst the aircraft is on the ground.
'Safety first, service second unfortunately'
'Safety first, service second unfortunately'
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Our SEPs explicitly state that we can not use any rolling material on the ground, as this would impede an evacuation.
Which is fine overall because how often do you do a meal service on the ground right?
It does cause a problem though, for the FAs working in business class. They have to hand out to the pax a large number of pre take-off items.
Which, with the high pax to FA ratio, is done much better and in a less hectic manner when they can use a half-trolley, rather than running back and forth to the galley and up and down the aisles with trays of OJ and champagne, headphones, menus, comfort kits and all manner of stuff while at the same time hanging up jackets and helping with the stowage of unfathomable amounts of hand luggage.
The commercial department wants the FAs to hand the pax each item personally, since that apparently scores on the personal attention front.
The safety department doesn't allow trollies on the ground, and time before take-off is limited.
Catch-22 anyone?
Most FAs tend to ignore the no-trollies rule. So I always make a point of mentioning it during the briefing, and of telling them that it's fine by me if they either put all the stuff on the seats (full flight) before the pax start boarding or just wait until we are in the air and hand it allout with trollies. Whatever they themselves prefer.
And even then, often times they STILL go out with their trollies pre-take off and get a bit irritated when I remind them of what we agreed to in the briefing and make them put away the trollies. The force of habit is strong in all of us.
But as said by others above, safety comes before commerce.
Short question, long answer
Which is fine overall because how often do you do a meal service on the ground right?
It does cause a problem though, for the FAs working in business class. They have to hand out to the pax a large number of pre take-off items.
Which, with the high pax to FA ratio, is done much better and in a less hectic manner when they can use a half-trolley, rather than running back and forth to the galley and up and down the aisles with trays of OJ and champagne, headphones, menus, comfort kits and all manner of stuff while at the same time hanging up jackets and helping with the stowage of unfathomable amounts of hand luggage.
The commercial department wants the FAs to hand the pax each item personally, since that apparently scores on the personal attention front.
The safety department doesn't allow trollies on the ground, and time before take-off is limited.
Catch-22 anyone?
Most FAs tend to ignore the no-trollies rule. So I always make a point of mentioning it during the briefing, and of telling them that it's fine by me if they either put all the stuff on the seats (full flight) before the pax start boarding or just wait until we are in the air and hand it allout with trollies. Whatever they themselves prefer.
And even then, often times they STILL go out with their trollies pre-take off and get a bit irritated when I remind them of what we agreed to in the briefing and make them put away the trollies. The force of habit is strong in all of us.
But as said by others above, safety comes before commerce.
Short question, long answer
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A big no, no in our airline. No trollies of any kind can be removed from their stowages once the pax are on board as this is a safety risk should we have an evacuation. Any pre-flight service including business class service and any unforseen delay service is carried out by hand.
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IN TWIN AISLE CABINS, we are permitted to conduct trolley services on the ground. Crew are advised to be particularly vigilant for anything that may cause an evacuation. This would normally only be during a lengthy delay, and requires approval from El Capitano!
IN SINGLE AISLE CABINS, we are required to hand run all services. No trollies permitted.
In the event of a crew member noticing anything abnormal, he/she is to make a PA "Cabin Crew Stow Carts Immediately". All crew are then to immediately suspend service, stow carts, and procede to their door stations to await further instructions.
IN SINGLE AISLE CABINS, we are required to hand run all services. No trollies permitted.
In the event of a crew member noticing anything abnormal, he/she is to make a PA "Cabin Crew Stow Carts Immediately". All crew are then to immediately suspend service, stow carts, and procede to their door stations to await further instructions.
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I checked our flying crew orders on this one. There`s 13 points regarding this, but its OK. If the a/c isn`t moving and at least one exit in every pair are clear.
Yes safety is important, but in my FCO it says its not a problem. As with bar services OK but a/c must be moving.
Unfortunately, the UK is full of Health & Safety regs now days and these little bods run round trying to find an issue with something which was never a problem in the first place.
Yes safety is important, but in my FCO it says its not a problem. As with bar services OK but a/c must be moving.
Unfortunately, the UK is full of Health & Safety regs now days and these little bods run round trying to find an issue with something which was never a problem in the first place.
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Tiger, for the record, the mob I work for is not UK based, but rather mainland Europe. And the no-trolley rule has been that way for over 20 years. Since long before H&S was even thought up. 
This thread once again shows that while to all of us, our own company's SEPs are Holy Writ (and rightly so IMO), there are aspects of SEPs that are open for discussion. Not at work, but here and on the real-time fora where airline safety managers meet eachother.
Things like: lights on or off during take-off and landing, is it the cockpit or the cabin who order doors armed/disarmed, is cross-check needed or not.
There's different ways of operating safely, and it's one of the interesting things about PPRuNe, discovering HOW different we do things.
This thread once again shows that while to all of us, our own company's SEPs are Holy Writ (and rightly so IMO), there are aspects of SEPs that are open for discussion. Not at work, but here and on the real-time fora where airline safety managers meet eachother.
Things like: lights on or off during take-off and landing, is it the cockpit or the cabin who order doors armed/disarmed, is cross-check needed or not.
There's different ways of operating safely, and it's one of the interesting things about PPRuNe, discovering HOW different we do things.
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That may well change when this new European law comes in.
We'll all possilbly be reading and signing from the same hymn sheet before long. (thats their plan anyway)
Nesboy
We'll all possilbly be reading and signing from the same hymn sheet before long. (thats their plan anyway)
Nesboy
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Didn`t JAR ops have something to do with "harmonizing" European aviation?
Worked for 3 different UK airlines for just over 20 year I`ve seen a number of changes thought out my career. From Brace position to CRM. Having been an SEP trainer (although not been for 8 year now, own choice) and an SCCM for 14 years I find it interesting to see the different ideas on such matters.
A question was put here and I answered it, with what I know and checked up on. The fact that other companies don`t do that is their choice. I know that airline safety managers do meet to discuss issues within the industry, so perhaps there maybe changes in either direction.
There`s one company I know who still has crew rabbiting off an emergency PA word for word together with word for word drills. Fab getting it right, but do they really understand what they are writing down? Would the crew really remember the paragraphs of words in an emergency? And more importantly could they amend the drills when necessary because the incident hasn`t gone to "drill"?
However, one interesting point is.. Nesboy. Don`t see this as me getting at you. I have no problems with what is said in my FCO manual. However, if you were working at my company are you saying that you wouldn`t follow the companies FCO?
Worked for 3 different UK airlines for just over 20 year I`ve seen a number of changes thought out my career. From Brace position to CRM. Having been an SEP trainer (although not been for 8 year now, own choice) and an SCCM for 14 years I find it interesting to see the different ideas on such matters.
A question was put here and I answered it, with what I know and checked up on. The fact that other companies don`t do that is their choice. I know that airline safety managers do meet to discuss issues within the industry, so perhaps there maybe changes in either direction.
There`s one company I know who still has crew rabbiting off an emergency PA word for word together with word for word drills. Fab getting it right, but do they really understand what they are writing down? Would the crew really remember the paragraphs of words in an emergency? And more importantly could they amend the drills when necessary because the incident hasn`t gone to "drill"?
However, one interesting point is.. Nesboy. Don`t see this as me getting at you. I have no problems with what is said in my FCO manual. However, if you were working at my company are you saying that you wouldn`t follow the companies FCO?
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Thanks for the replies.. does show how differently we all work.
At me previous airline we did a full meal service on the ground in SSH whilst delayed due to ATC strike.. its was deemed that the a/c is parked not going anywhere so why should there be a need to evacuate (I know you cannot predict emergencies) so we did the meal service fine.
Also we used to have a cart out in the L1 door area of the 767 whilst boarding LH flights to put the news papers on.
I understand the points about evacuations but would it get to the point where pax board one at a time take there seat before the next pax can board to prevent the huge build of pax in the aisle "just incase" we need to evacuate? etc etc I SOMETIMES think certain airlines go OTT with saftey.
At me previous airline we did a full meal service on the ground in SSH whilst delayed due to ATC strike.. its was deemed that the a/c is parked not going anywhere so why should there be a need to evacuate (I know you cannot predict emergencies) so we did the meal service fine.
Also we used to have a cart out in the L1 door area of the 767 whilst boarding LH flights to put the news papers on.
I understand the points about evacuations but would it get to the point where pax board one at a time take there seat before the next pax can board to prevent the huge build of pax in the aisle "just incase" we need to evacuate? etc etc I SOMETIMES think certain airlines go OTT with saftey.
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The "just incase" while boarding is the reason a certain number of exits need to be manned while boarding.
If you are in the cabin handing out a service on the ground there probably isnt that coverage and therefore another reason why carts are not allowed out in the cabin on the ground at my company.
Anything can cause an evacuation, doesnt necessarily have to do with the actual aircraft that is sitting on the tarmac either.
If you are in the cabin handing out a service on the ground there probably isnt that coverage and therefore another reason why carts are not allowed out in the cabin on the ground at my company.
Anything can cause an evacuation, doesnt necessarily have to do with the actual aircraft that is sitting on the tarmac either.
Quite fathomable actually, courtesy of ground services who, at the destination, take maybe over an hour to get the hold bags to the belt, and at the origin have left half the hold bags off anyway, which you will maybe see again halfway through your trip.
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I never understood the orinal post about hand luggage... why would you be dealing with hand luggage/Jackets anyway? That would have been done on boarding not at the same time as meal service! Our Premium pax boarded first and when they were all seated we did pre flight drinks etc well before the door was shut.
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I think it was referring to a wide body premium cabin pre-drink/menu/headset/amenity delivery service for a full cabin, inwhich case the aircraft would be boarding - and not a disruption management on gorund meal service.
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Must work for VERY different airlines or you have really slow ground staff, as I don't see why you couldn't do the pre-flight drinks etc after boarding as you have time before push back.
