JETSTAR EBA - Voting opens today
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JETSTAR EBA - Voting opens today
So guys and gals, whats the general concensus out there about this EBA? Do you all realise that we have lost effectively 3% from them not backdating the EBA to the finish of the old one! The new EBA starts on the 1/7/06 and not 24/7/05, so no backpay, 3% gone and an $800.00 "bonus payment" (ie bribe!) if it gets voted in.
Anyone got any ideas/suggestions or comments?
Anyone got any ideas/suggestions or comments?
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They don't have to backdate from the old EBA, or provide backpay. Not in the law.
Since we voted down the last one (where backpay WAS provided), there's no obligation for Jetstar (or indeed, any company) to give backpay.
The $800 is an incentive for those who wish to vote 'Yes'. Not too bad a deal if you're new, which for the last 200 or so recruits, is not a bad thing!
Most of the feedback I'm getting is good. At least there's a BOC allowance now.
Since we voted down the last one (where backpay WAS provided), there's no obligation for Jetstar (or indeed, any company) to give backpay.
The $800 is an incentive for those who wish to vote 'Yes'. Not too bad a deal if you're new, which for the last 200 or so recruits, is not a bad thing!
Most of the feedback I'm getting is good. At least there's a BOC allowance now.
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If the EBA is voted down current crew will stay on the current EBA. You can not be forced onto an individual contract unless you sign it, that is the law. Personally I dont want to work 11hr days and give up my 6 certificate free URTI days, so I'm happy to stay where I am, and so are quite a few crew who I have spoken to.
And as for managements "threat" that they will introduce individual contracts should this be voted down, all I have to say about that is what a load of
. Lets see them go ahead and try it. They cant even manage a group of cabin crew on the same collective agreement at the moment. How do they think they'll manage one group on an EBA with a 9.5hr limit and one group on an 11hr AWA? Simple answer.....THEY CAN'T AND WONT BE ABLE TO! Dont let them fool you. Oh......and havent they been so sickly sweet nice this time around with their caring, individual and friendly phone call reminders...."now don't forget to vote will you."
It just makes me want to puke
And as for managements "threat" that they will introduce individual contracts should this be voted down, all I have to say about that is what a load of
. Lets see them go ahead and try it. They cant even manage a group of cabin crew on the same collective agreement at the moment. How do they think they'll manage one group on an EBA with a 9.5hr limit and one group on an 11hr AWA? Simple answer.....THEY CAN'T AND WONT BE ABLE TO! Dont let them fool you. Oh......and havent they been so sickly sweet nice this time around with their caring, individual and friendly phone call reminders...."now don't forget to vote will you."It just makes me want to puke
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Be careful what you wish for, OldBoiler
The Qantas Group (when it suits) will not hesitate to use everything in its' power to ensure we all work for less under AWAs. Sure, it's a logisitical nightmare...but nothing a few additional HR staffers couldn't fix.
For the record, Short Haul have to provide certs for all their URTI's now too. And 11 hr days are the norm in this, and other airlines (SYD-PER-SYD return...aaaah, the old AN167...meeeeeeemories)
The Qantas Group (when it suits) will not hesitate to use everything in its' power to ensure we all work for less under AWAs. Sure, it's a logisitical nightmare...but nothing a few additional HR staffers couldn't fix.
For the record, Short Haul have to provide certs for all their URTI's now too. And 11 hr days are the norm in this, and other airlines (SYD-PER-SYD return...aaaah, the old AN167...meeeeeeemories)
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Here's the latest FAAA Newsletter on the subject...
"FAAA NEWSLETTER
FLIGHT ATTENDANTS' ASSOCIATION OF AUSTRALIA
(Domestic/Regional Division)
24 July, 2006 JET18-06
Attention All Jetstar Flight Attendants’
PROPOSED WORKPLACE AGREEMENT (EBA)
As members would be aware, your Association representatives concluded their Workplace Agreement (previously known as an Enterprise Bargaining Agreement) road shows on Friday 21 July, 2006 in Sydney.
Having attended all Jetstar bases and addressing as many flight attendants as were available at the time, your Association takes this opportunity to formally recommend the Agreement and to also address the concerns, questions and rumours that were put before your representatives over the last 10 days.
Why is the Association recommending crew vote yes ?
Very simply, your Association wants flight attendants to stay collective over the next three years under a Workplace Agreement with improved conditions. By staying together collectively, regulated under the same terms and conditions of employment, crew are in a better position to negotiate for renewed conditions in three years time.
Further, following the initial NO vote in March of this year, the FAAA surveyed all Jetstar flight attendants to determine what was required to make it a YES vote. Resoundingly the feedback from this survey was for payment on the back of the clock duties, followed by capping of the back of the clock duties. The proposed Agreement offers both of these things to crew.
What happens if another NO vote is returned ?
The Company have made their position clear in advising that if this Agreement is not accepted by crew, a further round of negotiations will not take place and any future employment into the Company will be on Australian Workplace Agreement (AWA or individual contacts). All current crew would stay on their current EBA until they either resigned from the Company, or until they voluntarily took up the offer of an individual contract to achieve a pay increase.
While the Associations members would also have options available including protected industrial action in support of their claims and this can certainly be considered, it is our strong recommendation that you vote yes for the Agreement regardless of what maybe available to any party should the majority not vote for the Agreement.
The Company has to provide C.P.I. increases to crew every year anyway if the vote is NO ?
Absolutely not. Mandatory increases have not been available in this country for 30 years. Your current EBA has provided all of the increases available to crew, with the last one being on 24 July, 2004. There is no requirement for any employer to provide their employees with a pay increase, in fact the new legislation (Work Choices) makes it readily available for employers with employees on AWA’s to not only reduce their pay, but increase their hours at the same time, through renewal of their AWA.
What is the $800.00 for ?
All crew are aware that the entitlement to back pay from 24 July, 2005 was only available if the initial vote in March had crew approved the original Agreement. Your Association negotiated the $800.00 for all crew in recognition that Jetstar flight attendants had not received any type of pay increase since 24 July 2004. It should be seen for what it is. A lump sum payment, negotiated by your Association to (part way) recognise the two year period, Jetstar crew have gone without an increase in pay and recognition of your hard work.
Why are the new flight attendants receiving the $800.00 when they’ve only just arrived into the Company ?
Your Association firmly believes in collective Agreements. Therefore, in representing all flight attendants, we will wherever possible ensure that there are no differences between crew. The settlement on the $800.00 for all flight attendants was the preferred approach by your Association and the company.
What is the difference between the 9:45 hour day and the up to 11 hour day ?
The 9:45 hours is simply a 15 minute extension to your current 9:30hours day. Meaning you can operate as many sectors as can be planned within 9:45 hours. Any duty in excess of 9:45 and up to 11 hours must be capped at 4 sectors (5 with a pax leg).
Can I be rostered back to back with 11 hour duties ?
No you cannot be rostered 11 hour duties on consecutive days. Any rostered duty in excess of 9:45 requires 14 hours home base rest and there are only 24 hours in a day !!
Can the monthly cap of 140 be changed throughout the life of the Agreement ?
No. If the Agreement is accepted by crew with a majority of yes votes, it will stay in place until 30 June, 2009. The only way anything in the document can be changed would be to vary it, which would require another vote of Jetstar flight attendants to approve the change.
BASE YOUR VOTE ON WHAT’S BEST FOR YOUR FUTURE
Your Association representatives were approached by crew in every base who had lots of ongoing employment issues, that were understandably upsetting to the individual and contributing to a negative attitude to the Agreement. Some of these issues included but were not limited to:
· not receiving the correct pay and not being able to find anyone to help or to even return their calls
· not being able to ever, regardless of their rotation in the system, achieve any roster requests
· not yet received access or a password to the new KIOSK system
· not been paid correctly for dispensations
· not being given the appropriate rest or hours credit for duties as a result of crewing advice
· being told that dispensation had been given however no number, Association representative or details of the payment/rest provisions being provided
· brand new flight attendants not being paid overnight allowances from 6 weeks ago when completing their EP’s in Brisbane; and the list goes on
While we understand that these issues are of paramount importance and we do not for one minute want to dilute that, what all flight attendants should note is that the proposed collective Agreement contains provisions to deal with your day to day issues / concerns. This is extremely important when the new legislation (Work Choices) has very limited access to an independent when disputes may arise over conditions of employment.
You are being asked to vote on your future as a collective and as such we urge you all to vote yes, if for no other reason than to protect yourselves, your current and your future colleagues for the next three years.
This newsletter was written and authorised by Dannielle Morgan, National Industrial Officer, for and on behalf of the FAAA Jetstar Team
FLIGHT ATTENDANTS' ASSOCIATION OF AUSTRALIA
(Domestic/Regional Division)
24 July, 2006 JET18-06
Attention All Jetstar Flight Attendants’
PROPOSED WORKPLACE AGREEMENT (EBA)
As members would be aware, your Association representatives concluded their Workplace Agreement (previously known as an Enterprise Bargaining Agreement) road shows on Friday 21 July, 2006 in Sydney.
Having attended all Jetstar bases and addressing as many flight attendants as were available at the time, your Association takes this opportunity to formally recommend the Agreement and to also address the concerns, questions and rumours that were put before your representatives over the last 10 days.
Why is the Association recommending crew vote yes ?
Very simply, your Association wants flight attendants to stay collective over the next three years under a Workplace Agreement with improved conditions. By staying together collectively, regulated under the same terms and conditions of employment, crew are in a better position to negotiate for renewed conditions in three years time.
Further, following the initial NO vote in March of this year, the FAAA surveyed all Jetstar flight attendants to determine what was required to make it a YES vote. Resoundingly the feedback from this survey was for payment on the back of the clock duties, followed by capping of the back of the clock duties. The proposed Agreement offers both of these things to crew.
What happens if another NO vote is returned ?
The Company have made their position clear in advising that if this Agreement is not accepted by crew, a further round of negotiations will not take place and any future employment into the Company will be on Australian Workplace Agreement (AWA or individual contacts). All current crew would stay on their current EBA until they either resigned from the Company, or until they voluntarily took up the offer of an individual contract to achieve a pay increase.
While the Associations members would also have options available including protected industrial action in support of their claims and this can certainly be considered, it is our strong recommendation that you vote yes for the Agreement regardless of what maybe available to any party should the majority not vote for the Agreement.
The Company has to provide C.P.I. increases to crew every year anyway if the vote is NO ?
Absolutely not. Mandatory increases have not been available in this country for 30 years. Your current EBA has provided all of the increases available to crew, with the last one being on 24 July, 2004. There is no requirement for any employer to provide their employees with a pay increase, in fact the new legislation (Work Choices) makes it readily available for employers with employees on AWA’s to not only reduce their pay, but increase their hours at the same time, through renewal of their AWA.
What is the $800.00 for ?
All crew are aware that the entitlement to back pay from 24 July, 2005 was only available if the initial vote in March had crew approved the original Agreement. Your Association negotiated the $800.00 for all crew in recognition that Jetstar flight attendants had not received any type of pay increase since 24 July 2004. It should be seen for what it is. A lump sum payment, negotiated by your Association to (part way) recognise the two year period, Jetstar crew have gone without an increase in pay and recognition of your hard work.
Why are the new flight attendants receiving the $800.00 when they’ve only just arrived into the Company ?
Your Association firmly believes in collective Agreements. Therefore, in representing all flight attendants, we will wherever possible ensure that there are no differences between crew. The settlement on the $800.00 for all flight attendants was the preferred approach by your Association and the company.
What is the difference between the 9:45 hour day and the up to 11 hour day ?
The 9:45 hours is simply a 15 minute extension to your current 9:30hours day. Meaning you can operate as many sectors as can be planned within 9:45 hours. Any duty in excess of 9:45 and up to 11 hours must be capped at 4 sectors (5 with a pax leg).
Can I be rostered back to back with 11 hour duties ?
No you cannot be rostered 11 hour duties on consecutive days. Any rostered duty in excess of 9:45 requires 14 hours home base rest and there are only 24 hours in a day !!
Can the monthly cap of 140 be changed throughout the life of the Agreement ?
No. If the Agreement is accepted by crew with a majority of yes votes, it will stay in place until 30 June, 2009. The only way anything in the document can be changed would be to vary it, which would require another vote of Jetstar flight attendants to approve the change.
BASE YOUR VOTE ON WHAT’S BEST FOR YOUR FUTURE
Your Association representatives were approached by crew in every base who had lots of ongoing employment issues, that were understandably upsetting to the individual and contributing to a negative attitude to the Agreement. Some of these issues included but were not limited to:
· not receiving the correct pay and not being able to find anyone to help or to even return their calls
· not being able to ever, regardless of their rotation in the system, achieve any roster requests
· not yet received access or a password to the new KIOSK system
· not been paid correctly for dispensations
· not being given the appropriate rest or hours credit for duties as a result of crewing advice
· being told that dispensation had been given however no number, Association representative or details of the payment/rest provisions being provided
· brand new flight attendants not being paid overnight allowances from 6 weeks ago when completing their EP’s in Brisbane; and the list goes on
While we understand that these issues are of paramount importance and we do not for one minute want to dilute that, what all flight attendants should note is that the proposed collective Agreement contains provisions to deal with your day to day issues / concerns. This is extremely important when the new legislation (Work Choices) has very limited access to an independent when disputes may arise over conditions of employment.
You are being asked to vote on your future as a collective and as such we urge you all to vote yes, if for no other reason than to protect yourselves, your current and your future colleagues for the next three years.
This newsletter was written and authorised by Dannielle Morgan, National Industrial Officer, for and on behalf of the FAAA Jetstar Team
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Deary ME
3/4's of most recent JQ flight attendants have left a very lucrative career as Deputy Assistant Duty Manager in charge of till receipts at Sportsgirl to wear a pretty uniform and get picked up by cute boys going to the Gold Coast for Davo's bucks party....
The EBA will go thru and we will all whinge until the next negotiation in 3 years time....to which my pants will be removed for another rodgering by my management team.
There is no support from crew. The union don't care. Management or lack there of....
The circle just continues.....
There is NO UNITY....NONE....
The Union have no need to fight for us
The Newbies just scored $800
The Oldies are getting pregnant just before part time comes around.
The rest of us just suffocate in the anesthetic of Jetstar life....
I am having a Dali-esque day ala Virginia Wolff
The EBA will go thru and we will all whinge until the next negotiation in 3 years time....to which my pants will be removed for another rodgering by my management team.
There is no support from crew. The union don't care. Management or lack there of....
The circle just continues.....
There is NO UNITY....NONE....
The Union have no need to fight for us
The Newbies just scored $800
The Oldies are getting pregnant just before part time comes around.
The rest of us just suffocate in the anesthetic of Jetstar life....
I am having a Dali-esque day ala Virginia Wolff
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Things never stay the same - they get worse?
Originally Posted by jetstarFA
The rest of us just suffocate in the anesthetic of Jetstar life....
In the end it was total apathy that got me through each day.
Jetstar certainly seems keen to bring new lows to the aviation industry. What a hallmark... It is mind-boggling, but certainly no surprise.
Guys, may I suggest that Mr Seatback is right. When needed Jetstar can get all the resources in the world. They are scabby when it suits but do not think they won't roll out the 'big guns' when required - no expense spared (they are, after all, a part of the QF Group). I would certainly expect them to do whatever it takes to administer as many agreements as required. And squeeze out any of you who do not conform to they new conditions.
As an example just look at the situation with Contract A, B and now, C casuals at Short Haul. Not that there is many Contract A's - most got squeezed out by allocating them work last so they were pressured to resign or move over to Contract B. The same process of (un)natural selection will happen to those now on Contract B. My point is Jetstar (and Qantas) will do anything it takes to get their way.
So do not underestimate what these thugs are capable of. They may come across as fools but they do have the upper hand - power is a very dangerous thing. Any collective agreement at this point seems attractive to what these people are capable. Protection of what you have and maintaining your rights as a collective group seems the most important agenda to me under these harsh industrial conditions.
Remember that the EBA will be voted in anyway. The $800 incentive is well over what the bulk of Jetstar's recruits earned in a fortnight before becoming flight attendants. Sportsgirl, Maccas... It may be well less than what we cleared in a week at QantasLink but most Jetstar FAs haven't come from that. They have no sense of the spiralling conditions and how much they are being taken for a ride.
Last edited by ditzyboy; 24th Jul 2006 at 23:39.
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Sack the FAAA?
Well well well… your hearing more and more about it, seems like JQ Flighties are prepared to Sack Ms. Morgan and the trash they call a Union. Some crew have actually been approaching other unions for representation. I say watch this space!
PS: if it does happen I'm sure we'll see Ms. Morgan take her place in JQ Head office somewhere as planned sooner than she'd thought.
PS: if it does happen I'm sure we'll see Ms. Morgan take her place in JQ Head office somewhere as planned sooner than she'd thought.
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Well well well
Don't this make interesting reading...
The JQ Flighties I imagine you're referring to couldn't prepare a cart without screaming for an allowance, let alone sack industrial staff. 
If the crew took more interest in the legislation that's affecting them, rather than looking for people to blame, then perhaps they might get closer to the problem. Then again, we are talking about crew who vote Liberal cause 'John Howard seems like a nice guy'.
As usual, with every EBA in this company, there's an awful lot of finger pointing and nastiness about. I can't wait till it's over...once it is, we'll return to the same old complacency that crew continually show for their own, and other crews, employment. Unless of course, it's voted down...then we're all TRULY SCREWED.
Fact of that matter is, division and disunity will ruin us quicker than anything else.
A couple of quick questions before I pass out...
Re: Trash...is that the collective term for the delegates too?
Re: Joining the TWU...FA's have been there before, and it all ended in tears.
Don't this make interesting reading...
"seems like JQ Flighties are prepared to Sack Ms. Morgan and the trash they call a Union"
If the crew took more interest in the legislation that's affecting them, rather than looking for people to blame, then perhaps they might get closer to the problem. Then again, we are talking about crew who vote Liberal cause 'John Howard seems like a nice guy'.
As usual, with every EBA in this company, there's an awful lot of finger pointing and nastiness about. I can't wait till it's over...once it is, we'll return to the same old complacency that crew continually show for their own, and other crews, employment. Unless of course, it's voted down...then we're all TRULY SCREWED.
Fact of that matter is, division and disunity will ruin us quicker than anything else.
A couple of quick questions before I pass out...
Re: Trash...is that the collective term for the delegates too?
Re: Joining the TWU...FA's have been there before, and it all ended in tears.
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Will Jetstar cabin crew retain the Progression Agreement? Common sense would suggest you won't since Jetstar is growing and Qantas is shrinking but strange things happen in this industry.
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Jetstar Domestic Cabin Crew retain the Career Progression Agreement under the EBA. Under an AWA, who knows? Doubtful, as the CPA is an industrial agreement between Qantas and the FAAA.
Jetstar International Cabin Crew will not have any access to Career Progression to Qantas Short Haul.
Qantas Short Haul are expanding through Regional Flying, as is Jetstar. Since 2004, two intakes of Jetstar crew have transferred across to Qantas Short Haul.
Jetstar International Cabin Crew will not have any access to Career Progression to Qantas Short Haul.
Qantas Short Haul are expanding through Regional Flying, as is Jetstar. Since 2004, two intakes of Jetstar crew have transferred across to Qantas Short Haul.
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How many reminders?
I took the initiative of casting my vote on opening day, since then I have had 3 calls on Mob, 1 text, 1 call on home line and 1 on each of my emails (2) from Mgmt to remind me to vote, anyone else? I'm almost expecting someone to pop out from behind a tree!!!!!!
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Time for an AVO
I had someone offer to take me to an amusement park and buy me fairy floss as long as I voted.
I changed my number 3 times this week
I changed my number 3 times this week
Last edited by jetstarFA; 28th Jul 2006 at 21:12.