QANTAS CABIN CREW DISCUSSIONS ( IV)
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QANTAS CABIN CREW DISCUSSIONS ( IV)
OK GUYS, lets start again.
Looks like there was a post that was really got out of hand, I didnt see it as it was deleted but lets keep thst stuff out.
I like it here and woomera will get angry.
Looks like there was a post that was really got out of hand, I didnt see it as it was deleted but lets keep thst stuff out.
I like it here and woomera will get angry.
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Forum Sabotage
From time to time PPrune has been a rallying point for QF CC during times of dispute with the company and/or management.
What better way to have this facility removed than for management to masquerade as crew and post inflammatory script.
This appears to be happening now.
Perhaps both moderators and posters should bear this in mind when responding to some posts in this forum.
What better way to have this facility removed than for management to masquerade as crew and post inflammatory script.
This appears to be happening now.
Perhaps both moderators and posters should bear this in mind when responding to some posts in this forum.
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Originally Posted by argusmoon
management to masquerade as crew and post inflammatory script.
This appears to be happening now.
This appears to be happening now.
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cartexchange You may think you deleted the last thread however all you did was remove the thread from public view. Moderators can still see the thread and I sent the offending posts to you via PM.
Two users were banned for a vitriolic, unwarranted, irrelevant attack on a QF manager simply because they put their expensive house on the market. A persons decision to sell their personal property has nothing to do with an aviation forum. Personal attacks on individuals will not be tolerated.
The majority of QF CC who post in this thread are very reasonable people who abide by the rules. A small minority go out of their way to be obnoxious and objectionable. In future the latter category will be banned without explanation – and serial banned if they have multiple user names (which Moderators can identify.)
We’re prepared to try again with a clean slate, but if this thread goes the same way as the last thread, QF CC threads will be moved out of Dunnunda.
Sunny Woomera
Two users were banned for a vitriolic, unwarranted, irrelevant attack on a QF manager simply because they put their expensive house on the market. A persons decision to sell their personal property has nothing to do with an aviation forum. Personal attacks on individuals will not be tolerated.
The majority of QF CC who post in this thread are very reasonable people who abide by the rules. A small minority go out of their way to be obnoxious and objectionable. In future the latter category will be banned without explanation – and serial banned if they have multiple user names (which Moderators can identify.)
We’re prepared to try again with a clean slate, but if this thread goes the same way as the last thread, QF CC threads will be moved out of Dunnunda.
Sunny Woomera
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The visitors sure were in major damage control last week after one of the Thai flight attendants was taken via ambulance to hospital on arrival into SYD.
This poor unfortunate was found collapsed and unconscious by the supervisor in one of the toilets after fainting and hitting her head.
It was only hours later that "fat boy slim" put out an email to all the supervisors on his email list saying that Qantas had listened to the complaints from Australian based crew members who are concerned about the abusive and inhumane patterns the Thais are being subjected to.
It seems that the pattern that this poor girl was on [BKK-SYD 24 hours, SYD-JNB 24 hours, JNB-SYD 24 hours] is to be no more.
The Thais have begun calling themselves, "non exchange equipment".
I had several asking me why the company was so nasty and saying that they hoped the Thai FA could sue QF.
This poor unfortunate was found collapsed and unconscious by the supervisor in one of the toilets after fainting and hitting her head.
It was only hours later that "fat boy slim" put out an email to all the supervisors on his email list saying that Qantas had listened to the complaints from Australian based crew members who are concerned about the abusive and inhumane patterns the Thais are being subjected to.
It seems that the pattern that this poor girl was on [BKK-SYD 24 hours, SYD-JNB 24 hours, JNB-SYD 24 hours] is to be no more.
The Thais have begun calling themselves, "non exchange equipment".
I had several asking me why the company was so nasty and saying that they hoped the Thai FA could sue QF.
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I should think that Qantas management has far better things to do with its time and resources than to stir up a couple of FA's on PPRUNE
QF employes over 6000 FA's. Less then half a dozen are actually posting stupid things on here obsessed about how the company reads this and how they seem to make their business plan from pprune.
Wake up to yourselves.
.....now i await to be accused of being QF Management.
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As a domestic pilot I find it strange to be posting here. But about these Thai crew - a mate of mine is a skipper on the 767. He told me he met a few of the Thai girls the other day up in Tokyo. They were doing: pax SIN-PER, 24 hr slip, PER-Tokyo, 36 hr slip, Tokyo-SYD 24 hr slip, SYD-Joburg, 24 slip, Joburg-SYD, 24 or 36 hr (?) slip, and finally SYD-SIN and pax straight to Bangkok on Jet* Asia.
Is this true or has my mate got his story a bit out of whack? If true, this is frightful. Totally disgraceful. How can this be remotely acceptable or condoned?
He also said the girls put up with this since the money craps all over anything else they could earn in Thailand. So it appears the company is just using and abusing that?
I'm truly shocked if we are seeing these sorts of patterns. I am embarassed that this is my organisation doing this. I'm actually hoping that one of you can allay my concerns - tell me this sort of pattern doesn't exist, ok??
Is this true or has my mate got his story a bit out of whack? If true, this is frightful. Totally disgraceful. How can this be remotely acceptable or condoned?
He also said the girls put up with this since the money craps all over anything else they could earn in Thailand. So it appears the company is just using and abusing that?
I'm truly shocked if we are seeing these sorts of patterns. I am embarassed that this is my organisation doing this. I'm actually hoping that one of you can allay my concerns - tell me this sort of pattern doesn't exist, ok??
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Physical Abuse
Its true.
You should see what the Kiwi Base crew do.
We are just numbers.QF abrogates its duty of care.
Their attitude...if you cant cope...... leave.
Normal flying (whatever that is)is bad enough,but what these poor buggers do is inhumane.
Crew should start having regular medical checks to determine their state of fatigue
You should see what the Kiwi Base crew do.
We are just numbers.QF abrogates its duty of care.
Their attitude...if you cant cope...... leave.
Normal flying (whatever that is)is bad enough,but what these poor buggers do is inhumane.
Crew should start having regular medical checks to determine their state of fatigue
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To be honest I am ashamed to work for Qantas.
This was not always the case but has become so for so many of us under the "leadership"
of geoff dixon.
The pattern you refer to is correct and is indicative of what management think of it's staff.
They are treated as nothing more than a means of production, to be chewed up and spat out when burnt out.
The film clip to Pink Floyds, "The Wall" comes to mind.
I see this treatment dished out in so many ways to all CC regardless of where they are based.
Australian based crew are not subjected to this type of pattern yet as we still are protected by our industrial aggreement/EBA.
When it has expired I have NO doubt that under the "work no choices" legislation this type of pattern will become the norm for us too.
As Speedy said, QF must have shat themselves when this poor girl collapsed especially given that her operating CSM was an ex line manager who is unlikely to be silenced or pushed around.
The following is a cut and paste from the CC manager email sent to all Supervisors the afternoon of the incident.
--------
BKK / AKL CREW SLIP IN JNB We have been receiving a lot of feedback from
you with regards to the 24 hour slip our BKK and AKL crew were given in JNB
this bid period. Thanks to your continued direct and honest communication,
we can confirm that from BP246 the slip time has been significantly
extended. If you are speaking to BKK/AKL crew about JNB patterns please
feel free to let them know that extended slip times have already been
factored in to the new patterns and also to let them know that it is
important that all feedback re patterns be given to their base managers.
--------
The Thais don't voice their concern to management THEMSELVES as they are [rightly] terrified of not having their contract renewed.
This company is nothing short of discraceful.
This was not always the case but has become so for so many of us under the "leadership"
of geoff dixon.The pattern you refer to is correct and is indicative of what management think of it's staff.
They are treated as nothing more than a means of production, to be chewed up and spat out when burnt out.
The film clip to Pink Floyds, "The Wall" comes to mind.
I see this treatment dished out in so many ways to all CC regardless of where they are based.
Australian based crew are not subjected to this type of pattern yet as we still are protected by our industrial aggreement/EBA.
When it has expired I have NO doubt that under the "work no choices" legislation this type of pattern will become the norm for us too.
As Speedy said, QF must have shat themselves when this poor girl collapsed especially given that her operating CSM was an ex line manager who is unlikely to be silenced or pushed around.
The following is a cut and paste from the CC manager email sent to all Supervisors the afternoon of the incident.
--------
BKK / AKL CREW SLIP IN JNB We have been receiving a lot of feedback from
you with regards to the 24 hour slip our BKK and AKL crew were given in JNB
this bid period. Thanks to your continued direct and honest communication,
we can confirm that from BP246 the slip time has been significantly
extended. If you are speaking to BKK/AKL crew about JNB patterns please
feel free to let them know that extended slip times have already been
factored in to the new patterns and also to let them know that it is
important that all feedback re patterns be given to their base managers.
--------
The Thais don't voice their concern to management THEMSELVES as they are [rightly] terrified of not having their contract renewed.
This company is nothing short of discraceful.
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yes terrible patterns, but even SYD and BNE based have been badly affected by the new Carmen system,
Have you seen the PER/SYD transit hours then SYD/DRW 24 hours slip then off to BOM.
What about BOM/SYD transit SYD/BNE 17.5 tour of duty with no horizontals rest.....how come no one has been screaming about these!
Have you seen the PER/SYD transit hours then SYD/DRW 24 hours slip then off to BOM.
What about BOM/SYD transit SYD/BNE 17.5 tour of duty with no horizontals rest.....how come no one has been screaming about these!
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I did and here is my "take" on these bull**** 17+ hour [no horizontal crew rest] sectors.
Go sick.
If Qantas CHOOSES to ignore the fact that I am a human being with physiological needs then I will CHOOSE to ignore the fact that Qantas is running a business.
Simple, easy and DAMM WELL FAIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Go sick.
If Qantas CHOOSES to ignore the fact that I am a human being with physiological needs then I will CHOOSE to ignore the fact that Qantas is running a business.
Simple, easy and DAMM WELL FAIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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where is the faaa????????????
these horrible patterns once again highlights the lack of support/action by the faaa. 
regardless of base/contracts/ ALL QF international fa's work on an australian registered aircraft.
that means aussie civil aviation rules apply. 
simple why doesn't the faaa go to casa and make official complaints about certain trips. and under the oh act fatigue is a recognised work place hazard. where is the oh committee on these issues?
regardless of base/contracts/ ALL QF international fa's work on an australian registered aircraft. that means aussie civil aviation rules apply. simple why doesn't the faaa go to casa and make official complaints about certain trips. and under the oh act fatigue is a recognised work place hazard. where is the oh committee on these issues?
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The faaa in conjuction with the actu should be publicising these patterns in ads to let the public know what the company is up to.The only thing the company and darth in particular reacts to is public knowledge about it's perception of QF's idea of the "Spirit of Australia"....If the public found out about crew falling asleep or fainting after these sectors it would be embarrassing to say the least for Darth.
If we don't tackle this issue now ,what will it be like when the company makes full value of the new IR laws,imagine being fined $200 and losing a days pay if we go sick within 12 hours of a duty as is the case with the mining company in the news at the moment.
Then maybe, just maybe Casa might address this issue...
If we don't tackle this issue now ,what will it be like when the company makes full value of the new IR laws,imagine being fined $200 and losing a days pay if we go sick within 12 hours of a duty as is the case with the mining company in the news at the moment.
Then maybe, just maybe Casa might address this issue...
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The Issues
1.AWAs
2.O.H and S:fatigue,atlas boxes,plastic tubs and Airbus Stowages
3.Carmen and her patterns
4.The FAAA:like most unions has been emasculated by legislation
5.New technology:negotiating Tand Cs for upcoming ultra long range aircraft.
6. Crew complement size
7.Next years federal election
8.The expiration of the Current EBA next year(after the election)
9.Qantas Enron style management and its lack of accountability.
10.Maintaining current wages and conditions
11.Jetstar International:one can only hope it fails
12.All of us pulling together in the one direction for the betterment of us all
If I have missed anything I am sure sure the pedantic putsch on PPrune will take me to task.
2.O.H and S:fatigue,atlas boxes,plastic tubs and Airbus Stowages
3.Carmen and her patterns
4.The FAAA:like most unions has been emasculated by legislation
5.New technology:negotiating Tand Cs for upcoming ultra long range aircraft.
6. Crew complement size
7.Next years federal election
8.The expiration of the Current EBA next year(after the election)
9.Qantas Enron style management and its lack of accountability.
10.Maintaining current wages and conditions
11.Jetstar International:one can only hope it fails
12.All of us pulling together in the one direction for the betterment of us all
If I have missed anything I am sure sure the pedantic putsch on PPrune will take me to task.
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Originally Posted by cartexchange
yes terrible patterns, but even SYD and BNE based have been badly affected by the new Carmen system,
Have you seen the PER/SYD transit hours then SYD/DRW 24 hours slip then off to BOM.
What about BOM/SYD transit SYD/BNE 17.5 tour of duty with no horizontals rest.....how come no one has been screaming about these!
Have you seen the PER/SYD transit hours then SYD/DRW 24 hours slip then off to BOM.
What about BOM/SYD transit SYD/BNE 17.5 tour of duty with no horizontals rest.....how come no one has been screaming about these!
Please don't even attempt to think you have it nearly as bad as the Thais or Kiwis.
Last edited by twiggs; 5th Jul 2006 at 07:14.
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No horizontal rest on a sector that is apparently over 12 hours long? 
Forgive my naievety, but when does a requirement for horizontal rest kick in? When I was flying Long Haul in the UK any sector over something like 12 hours, if my memory serves me correctly, required minimum 3 hours rest in a bunk...
Forgive my naievety, but when does a requirement for horizontal rest kick in? When I was flying Long Haul in the UK any sector over something like 12 hours, if my memory serves me correctly, required minimum 3 hours rest in a bunk...