QANTAS CABIN CREW DISCUSSIONS ( IV)
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Sanctimonius Tw@t?
The following is a cut and paste from the 2003 Hallis Absenteeism report-
"Worker absenteeism or employees taking a "sickie" can have a significant impact on a business's bottom line. Surveys show almost half of all Australian workers fake the odd sickie. Unscheduled absences that are not due to actual illness are estimated to cost Australian employers more than $7 billion a year in lost productivity and disruption. Caring for children, worker job dissatisfaction and lack of penalties are cited by most workers as the main causes of absenteeism in the workplace. But, as this report explains, flexible leave arrangements and incentive schemes can be very effective in managing a culture of absenteeism in the workplace."
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Note the last sentence and the fact that longhaul crew at QF have little or nothing in the way of flexability to manage their lives once rosters are issued.
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Melbourne,
isn't it about time that you got over yourself?
"Worker absenteeism or employees taking a "sickie" can have a significant impact on a business's bottom line. Surveys show almost half of all Australian workers fake the odd sickie. Unscheduled absences that are not due to actual illness are estimated to cost Australian employers more than $7 billion a year in lost productivity and disruption. Caring for children, worker job dissatisfaction and lack of penalties are cited by most workers as the main causes of absenteeism in the workplace. But, as this report explains, flexible leave arrangements and incentive schemes can be very effective in managing a culture of absenteeism in the workplace."
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Note the last sentence and the fact that longhaul crew at QF have little or nothing in the way of flexability to manage their lives once rosters are issued.
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Melbourne,
isn't it about time that you got over yourself?
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No-one is an angel and most people have called in sick from time to time, but statements made by Cartexchange really do a disservice to the majority of QF crew.
Mel Bourne is on the money, Cartexchange , in a previous post, winged about a BNE pattern whereby the crew were required to pax SYD-BNE after doing a BOM-SYD. All totally within legal hours and what BNE residing crew where doing for years when they were SYD based, except now they are confirmed on the flight home and are being paid big bucks in overtime.
Mel Bourne is on the money, Cartexchange , in a previous post, winged about a BNE pattern whereby the crew were required to pax SYD-BNE after doing a BOM-SYD. All totally within legal hours and what BNE residing crew where doing for years when they were SYD based, except now they are confirmed on the flight home and are being paid big bucks in overtime.
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Let's get back on track, shall we?
Okay People,
This page has steadily headed toward the personal insult oblivian again
Start playing nice, keep up the robust debate. But leave the sledging out of it!
Woomera (Eastern States)
This page has steadily headed toward the personal insult oblivian again
Start playing nice, keep up the robust debate. But leave the sledging out of it!
Woomera (Eastern States)
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Direct Anywhere with reference to NRT allowances, - the allowances are based on eating at the average priced restaurant in the crew hotel give or take a bit.
NRT allowances are boosted somewhat as a trade off for no longer staying in Tokyo.
If the crew then choose to find a cheap eats place and save their allowances then good on them, in the same way that cabin crew take suitcases of tuna to NRT then best of luck to them.
Personally I tried to enjoy myself on long slips especially in NRT, day trips, overnight trips, and eat at different restauarants, and generally come back with little or no allowances.
I am glad I did, and will continue to, because invariably QF pull out of ports and you wont get another opportunity (or not for a long time).
I found it highly amusing that a heap of crew used to do NRTS, save all their money for their mortgages (why you would factor in your allowances into mortgages is beyond me, or thats right, we get taxed now because of that!) and not once in a 3 year period of long slips, ever go into Tokyo.
But each to their own eh....
NRT allowances are boosted somewhat as a trade off for no longer staying in Tokyo.
If the crew then choose to find a cheap eats place and save their allowances then good on them, in the same way that cabin crew take suitcases of tuna to NRT then best of luck to them.
Personally I tried to enjoy myself on long slips especially in NRT, day trips, overnight trips, and eat at different restauarants, and generally come back with little or no allowances.
I am glad I did, and will continue to, because invariably QF pull out of ports and you wont get another opportunity (or not for a long time).
I found it highly amusing that a heap of crew used to do NRTS, save all their money for their mortgages (why you would factor in your allowances into mortgages is beyond me, or thats right, we get taxed now because of that!) and not once in a 3 year period of long slips, ever go into Tokyo.
But each to their own eh....
G'day Blueloo.
I'm kind of familiar with the formula that's used to calculate the NRT allowances. However, the breakfast and lunch buffets in the hotel now are about 2000 yen and QF give us about 25000 yen, or about 300 AUD, per day.
I think I typically take home about 200 AUD per day off a NRT slip and that's after eating and drinking myself silly. I think you can survive very comfortably on about 10000 yen per day in NRT and I can't really see the justification for the additional allowances. My allowances in NRT make up roughly 10% of my total cost to the company on a typical NRT pattern and of course that percentage is higher for other crew members.
This situation compares with say MNL, where the allowances are about 1/6th of those in NRT or about 50AUD per day which is adequate but only just and I often have to get out the card for a big night at LA Cafe or similar.
I guess my point at the end of all this is having a go at those who complain that the allowances in various ports are worthless. Allowances are only supposed to cover food and drink for the period you are in the slip port. You are not supposed to take home massive amounts of leftover allowances - taxed or otherwise - to pay off the mortgage.
It's interesting to do a comparison with the EK allowances listed here:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...t=ek+allowance
and to see that generally we do pretty well in QF by comparison. European ports for example are all about 50 euros per day. I recall typically getting about 3 times that when I still went to Europe.
Don't get me wrong, I like the extra money, I just don't see that it can necessarily be justified.
Cheers.
I'm kind of familiar with the formula that's used to calculate the NRT allowances. However, the breakfast and lunch buffets in the hotel now are about 2000 yen and QF give us about 25000 yen, or about 300 AUD, per day.
I think I typically take home about 200 AUD per day off a NRT slip and that's after eating and drinking myself silly. I think you can survive very comfortably on about 10000 yen per day in NRT and I can't really see the justification for the additional allowances. My allowances in NRT make up roughly 10% of my total cost to the company on a typical NRT pattern and of course that percentage is higher for other crew members.
This situation compares with say MNL, where the allowances are about 1/6th of those in NRT or about 50AUD per day which is adequate but only just and I often have to get out the card for a big night at LA Cafe or similar.
I guess my point at the end of all this is having a go at those who complain that the allowances in various ports are worthless. Allowances are only supposed to cover food and drink for the period you are in the slip port. You are not supposed to take home massive amounts of leftover allowances - taxed or otherwise - to pay off the mortgage.
It's interesting to do a comparison with the EK allowances listed here:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...t=ek+allowance
and to see that generally we do pretty well in QF by comparison. European ports for example are all about 50 euros per day. I recall typically getting about 3 times that when I still went to Europe.
Don't get me wrong, I like the extra money, I just don't see that it can necessarily be justified.
Cheers.
Last edited by DirectAnywhere; 29th Aug 2006 at 02:26.
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B.Chucker - I've taken over many a/c from yen men lately to operate back to CNS - Lock and seal ! pffffft ! They don't even do that.
The jumpseats are still always warm though - must have spent hours sitting on it.
The jumpseats are still always warm though - must have spent hours sitting on it.
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Yen Men Are Dead
Get with it folks, once the yen climbed above 70 against the $A the "yen men" myth died.
It was a myth and really only centred around 20 to 30 crew.The rest of the people who did these trips were either language speakers or those who really enjoyed the cultural experience.
A lot of these people left with the last VR package.
The term also referred to those direct sectors up and back.
So Sonique how could the jumpseats be so warm...turbulence perhaps?
You should also realise that there are offshore based crew predominantly in Y/C thes days.
NRT/CNS are NOT now done by SYD based LHCC
It was a myth and really only centred around 20 to 30 crew.The rest of the people who did these trips were either language speakers or those who really enjoyed the cultural experience.
A lot of these people left with the last VR package.
The term also referred to those direct sectors up and back.
So Sonique how could the jumpseats be so warm...turbulence perhaps?
You should also realise that there are offshore based crew predominantly in Y/C thes days.
NRT/CNS are NOT now done by SYD based LHCC
Last edited by argus.moon; 29th Aug 2006 at 12:41.
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Direct Anywhere - sorry, I should have clarified - I believe the NRT allowances are base on the mid-priced restaurant average or some such thing from the Tokyo Hotel, plus now it is adjusted by extra to factor in, that we dont stay in Tokyo.
I would have been much happier spending a couple of hours on a crew bus to slip in Tokyo than NRT, and had no bonus allowances paid too. (Provided toilets were fitted on the bus)
Sure we can all stuff our faces silly in NRT at the cheap eats places, but thats not what the allowances are designed for - dont you remember your intro days at the medical centre - about all the safe places to eat (ie the hotel, where the most frequent food poisoning occurs).
After you spend a bit of cash transporting yourself in and out of tokyo, and eating in tokyo, you can use up your allowances fairly easily.
From my point of view, I am happy with the allowances up there, unfortunately for QF you may be right, the amount is to much, and it attracts some of the most lazy, rude and senior QF cabin crew, who treat the customers like crap.
I would have been much happier spending a couple of hours on a crew bus to slip in Tokyo than NRT, and had no bonus allowances paid too. (Provided toilets were fitted on the bus)
Sure we can all stuff our faces silly in NRT at the cheap eats places, but thats not what the allowances are designed for - dont you remember your intro days at the medical centre - about all the safe places to eat (ie the hotel, where the most frequent food poisoning occurs).
After you spend a bit of cash transporting yourself in and out of tokyo, and eating in tokyo, you can use up your allowances fairly easily.
From my point of view, I am happy with the allowances up there, unfortunately for QF you may be right, the amount is to much, and it attracts some of the most lazy, rude and senior QF cabin crew, who treat the customers like crap.
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Some LAZY RUDE crew?
What are we talking here...3 or 4?
Do these trips all the time do you BLUELOO?
So what is this ..self characterization?
And no I havent been to NRT for awhile..but my girlfriend(language Speaker)has .
She feels eveything is great on these sectors..particularly now that the Airbus flies to NRT from SYD
Do these trips all the time do you BLUELOO?
So what is this ..self characterization?
And no I havent been to NRT for awhile..but my girlfriend(language Speaker)has .
She feels eveything is great on these sectors..particularly now that the Airbus flies to NRT from SYD
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The NRT allowance is JPY15500 per day.
Some 24hr slips get an extra dinner allowance (JPY9150) because of the flight timings, but this also happens at other ports such as SIN as it is part of the allowance agreement.
The NRT allowance is protected at the above rate as this was part of the agreement when the company changed the accomodation located in Narita instead of Tokyo. (there is no bonus or extra allowance, it is just based on Tokyo 10 years ago and will not rise until Narita hotel meal prices exceed this amount)
Some 24hr slips get an extra dinner allowance (JPY9150) because of the flight timings, but this also happens at other ports such as SIN as it is part of the allowance agreement.
The NRT allowance is protected at the above rate as this was part of the agreement when the company changed the accomodation located in Narita instead of Tokyo. (there is no bonus or extra allowance, it is just based on Tokyo 10 years ago and will not rise until Narita hotel meal prices exceed this amount)
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The so called Yen men and Yen hens currently flying the NRT route are mere imposters. The true Yen men took the last VR or are now firmly ensconced on the LAX run. The lustre came of the NRT's when 1)the # rate blew out beyond the 80/1 rate 2) the Telly Tubbies took over the back galley 3)The yen paid per 100ml of blood donation dropped to below Y2500.
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cair report
I see these hours are unacceptable whats wrong with a simple CAIR report to CASA . Submitted one just before i resigned and had the head of safety on my home phone within 48 hours asking for clarification.Trust me the system works
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Miata, CAIR has been defunct since 2004
,which means you now have to submit confidential reports through your own company's internal reporting system
Take a look here: http://www.atsb.gov.au/aviation/notification/asrs.aspx
,which means you now have to submit confidential reports through your own company's internal reporting systemTake a look here: http://www.atsb.gov.au/aviation/notification/asrs.aspx
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Hey Hugh,
Methinks you maybe make booboo.
The forms are NOT filed through the company's channels, but are to be sent directly to Canberra. Look at the address (in red) at the bottom of Page 1....
http://www.atsb.gov.au/pdfs/asrs_form.pdf
Methinks you maybe make booboo.
...you now have to submit confidential reports through your own company's internal reporting system..
http://www.atsb.gov.au/pdfs/asrs_form.pdf
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When are we going to close this thread and all the nonsence that's been going on Ad Nauseam, or whatever, for far, far too long?
Please, please , give us all a break!!
I'm sick to death of it as I'm sure others are!
Just sod off and bitch some where else...you're all a huge pain in the a.se!!
Please, please , give us all a break!!
I'm sick to death of it as I'm sure others are!
Just sod off and bitch some where else...you're all a huge pain in the a.se!!
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Gidday Capt.d.
Just reading off the ATSB website, I think the ASRS is for confidential reporting of breaches of regs, when committed(sic) by the writer?
I didn't think cabin crew were subject to CAO duty time limitations (as opposed to limits agreed to in their relevant collective agreement), so technically the excessive duty times alluded to in previous posts aren't really a breach, and therefore would not really qualify under ASRS.
I think the only course of action in those circumstances is to go through the internal SOR system and tick the confidentiality box.
Whaddya reckon?
Just reading off the ATSB website, I think the ASRS is for confidential reporting of breaches of regs, when committed(sic) by the writer?
To be eligible for acceptance under ASRS, the report must be about the reporter's own contravention.
I think the only course of action in those circumstances is to go through the internal SOR system and tick the confidentiality box.
Whaddya reckon?