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Old 5th Mar 2006, 17:51
  #21 (permalink)  
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Thank you very much for your answers. I did not make clear that the mobile owner was not located, picture a bunch of SLF to stare at the F/A without a reaction. So the guilty was not located!

And one more question: how can a F/A can confiscate a mobile? He or she can ask the offending pax but it can and would be ignored! What can you do in that case!

Thank you for your patient with all SLF.

Rwy in Sight
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Old 5th Mar 2006, 18:04
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Originally Posted by Rwy in Sight
And one more question: how can a F/A can confiscate a mobile? He or she can ask the offending pax but it can and would be ignored! What can you do in that case!
Take it. Ask the first couple of times but if they continue to ignore your requests and then commands, just snatch the bloody thing from them. Their use of the phone could put yourself, the aircraft and all of its passengers safety in jeopardy. You are allowed to take all reasonable measures to ensure that this hazard is eliminated.

I've done it before (at the request of a Purser) and I would do it again.
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Old 5th Mar 2006, 18:10
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How can you reasonably suggest snatching a phone from someone? What if they are on the phone because someone has died?

Sure they are not supposed to be using them and we should enforce the rule but we should not ever treat all cases as if they are the same ignorant SLF who think they know better and are far to important to obey the rules.

6
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Old 5th Mar 2006, 18:24
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Originally Posted by 6chimes
How can you reasonably suggest snatching a phone from someone? What if they are on the phone because someone has died?
It's a last and very final resort matey. I'd ask them a few times, tell them another few times and if they continued to use the phone I could see only two options available :

1- take the phone, turn it off and keep it for the duration of the flight (or until you feel comfortable enough to return it, knowing that it won't be turned back on)

2- offload said passenger for endangering the aircraft, for you never know where they will stop - now it's the phone, perhaps it'll be a quick fag in the loos next

Not only would I prefer option one, but the passenger, Captain, crew and company would too.
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Old 5th Mar 2006, 18:32
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I see where your coming from, I just think that if confiscating it is an option your thinking of then you could get to that option sooner than is necessary. (not you in particular, just generally speaking). If you find that your getting nowhere then let someome else try. There will be someone on the crew that will be able to find a way round them.

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Old 5th Mar 2006, 18:48
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Originally Posted by 6chimes
I see where your coming from, I just think that if confiscating it is an option your thinking of then you could get to that option sooner than is necessary. (not you in particular, just generally speaking). If you find that your getting nowhere then let someome else try. There will be someone on the crew that will be able to find a way round them.
6
Nice point well put! I'm thankful that we're all not faced with this kind of incident on a daily basis!
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Old 5th Mar 2006, 18:56
  #27 (permalink)  
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I still have the question how do you identify whose SLF mobile rings when all you have is the general are rows 6-8 and a sea of indifferent faces...

The second question is you still have an SLF holding and talking a modile (I really don't care why they talk to their cellular during the flight no reason is serious enought to endager a flight). How do you take it? Do you ask? He or she will laugh in your face and keep talking?

Snatch it? Then you open a Pandora box for you to sued for bodily harm to the pax ruining his/her mobile etc.

I think the solution lies to exorbitant and more expensive fees for using the mobile on board in the region or 500.000 Euros per 30 sec. 50% to be offered as bonus to crew and other SLF for bearing the use of the mobille.

Rwy in Sight
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Old 5th Mar 2006, 20:09
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Its very difficult for someone to talk on the phone if your talking louder than the caller at the end of the line. Keep asking them very simple questions and explaining to them what is going on. Eventually they will find it impossible to carry on their conversation................its always worked for me.

Pin pointing a phone is difficult, if its in a locker open them up til you find where it is coming from. If its on them you should get close, you might find pax around will help you.

6
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Old 5th Mar 2006, 21:38
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Originally Posted by Rwy in Sight
And one more question: how can a F/A can confiscate a mobile? He or she can ask the offending pax but it can and would be ignored! What can you do in that case!
Under these cirumstances, an FA speaks with the delegated authority of the Captain ( usually double check with him first to make sure he's happy before I speak to the pax). I usually mention this to problem pax whenever possible, as in "The Captain requires that you switch off that phone immediately". This usually works, and on the rare occasions that it doesn't, the groundwork has been nicely laid for a hopeful arrest and prosecution: It certainly alerts all concerned to the fact that the situation is serious, and is being taken seriously, and will make it easier for witnesses to come forward later, and alerts others who may help if the FA is attacked.

I cannot, offhand, think of circumstances under which I would physically remove a phone from a passenger. It ramps the situation up to a dangerous level very quickly, and risks alienating or involving surrounding pax. However, what works for me may not for others, and vice versa.
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Old 5th Mar 2006, 22:00
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Let's be scientific . . .

There is, in fact, little likelyhood of mobile phones interfering with aircraft avionics. The biggest problem is disruption to the mobile cellular systems from phones that become visible (due to altitude) to multiple base stations.

The danger on the ground is essentially nil. The airwaves at any airport are saturated with relatively high-powered RF radiation which is far more powerful (thence more likely to cause fuel explosions etc) than a wimpy 500mW GSM mobile.

It's about as silly -- scientifically -- as those signs in filling stations telling you to turn off your mobile (which, incidentally, causes it to do the very thing they don't want you to do -- it transmits a 'sign off' to the network). The same Shell filling station is likely to have a 50W T-Mobile base on the forecourt in the big sign that tells you the prices -- yes, they really do that. So if it doesn't blow up the filling station, why would your mobile? It's an urban myth, not science.

Having said all of that, the world is fiull of absurd and silly rules that we all have to obey -- so I turn off my phone before engine start.
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Old 5th Mar 2006, 22:56
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DEREKL,
You are absolutely right - it is not so much the interference with the onboard systems, but with the cellular multi-station ground network, which have have nothing to do with the operation of the flight!

But if the regs say 'no phones on during flight' (and taxiing is already part of the 'flight') then those damned things should be off - even if it is only in the interest of the fellow passengers!
A PA asking the passenger in seat XX to switch off his cellphone usually works wonders!

Cheers,

Ikarus

P.S. Fortunately, our onboard electronic systems are much more resistant to interference than the legislators may think. But so what...safety is no accident!
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Old 5th Mar 2006, 23:03
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the local EMS helicopter here has a standard moblile on the dashboard
so they can make handsfree calls to hospitals in flight ,it does not seem to affect the aircraft systems.
also if you go into any operating theater the anaesthetists spend half the operation talking on there mobiles without a problem .
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Old 5th Mar 2006, 23:09
  #33 (permalink)  
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Jettesen,
you are right it would be quite disconcerting if the captain heard the crackling of the GSM transmission in the headset, but given that the closest passenger is probably 10 feet away it would be his own phone. These "crackles" are picked up by speakers, so if you leave a phone on, in the overhead bin, near the PA speaker it could sound horrific with no impact on speakers and headphones further away. They cause this kind of interference only 2-3 feet around them. My main point is that the "interference" is audible only and has no impact on properly shielded electronic equipment, such as the ones founds in modern aircraft.
 
Old 5th Mar 2006, 23:15
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http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=213367

You might like to follow the thread.

6
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Old 6th Mar 2006, 01:49
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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I think every company does (or should) have a set procedure for handling such events - much the same as companies have a procedure to handle responsible service of alcohol, smoking on board, disruptive pax...

- if you follow procedure, you cover your own backside, so why not...

- as far as the odd passenger who refuses goes, making reference to the captain and the course of action to be taken if they dont comply usually does the trick - if it dosent, one warning is enough! This is of course dependent on having a team that will support your decision.
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Old 6th Mar 2006, 02:16
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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It's about as silly -- scientifically -- as those signs in filling stations telling you to turn off your mobile (which, incidentally, causes it to do the very thing they don't want you to do -- it transmits a 'sign off' to the network). The same Shell filling station is likely to have a 50W T-Mobile base on the forecourt in the big sign that tells you the prices yes, they really do that. So if it doesn't blow up the filling station, why would your mobile? It's an urban myth, not science
The reason why those signs tell you to switch your phone off are nothing to do with it transmitting a signal, it is because there is a very very small chance of a spark being generated by the contact between the battery of the phone and the phone itself and thus 'blow up the filling station'. Think about it phone is usually in trouser pocket of person operating pump and very close to all those highly flammable petrol fumes even a tiny spark in that area could be enough for the place to explode. Try having that on your conscious assuming you survive that is.
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Old 6th Mar 2006, 03:06
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infact the police advertised in our local paper a few months ago making a point of asking local residents to be vigilant about mobile phones while at petrol stations for this very reason. apparently there had been a spate of fires caused by mobiles being used at petrol stations.

they also warned of static electricity also causing fires at petrol pumps- and advised people to get out of the car completely, closing the door and not allowing anyone to get in or out of the car while its being refuelled- same thing, the static electricity causing a spark which when combined with fuel vapours ignites a fire.
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Old 6th Mar 2006, 09:57
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i spose it would depend on how close to landing you actually were.if there was time,id get up and tell them to turn the damn thing off.if not,i would make a PA addressing the situation
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Old 6th Mar 2006, 21:28
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Try being up the front end of an Airbus and explaining why the ILS has gone haywire, why one side is suggesting aircraft is on horizon and the other is climbing, and multiple false ECAM warnings. No explainations.

I have seen mobiles cause inteference to cabin IFE, as well as radio.

Who knows if it's just electronics going temperemental, or mobiles/ other electronic devices causing it. Either way, I'd rather be safe than sorry.
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Old 6th Mar 2006, 21:51
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Andie 74

Originally Posted by andie74
infact the police advertised in our local paper a few months ago making a point of asking local residents to be vigilant about mobile phones while at petrol stations for this very reason. apparently there had been a spate of fires caused by mobiles being used at petrol stations.
they also warned of static electricity also causing fires at petrol pumps- and advised people to get out of the car completely, closing the door and not allowing anyone to get in or out of the car while its being refuelled- same thing, the static electricity causing a spark which when combined with fuel vapours ignites a fire.
A spate of fires -- really? Find a documented one -- I'll tell you now, you won't. Exploding filling stations? No documented occurence (caused by a mobile phone) on the records. I'm sorry, it's nonsense.

What about people locking their cars with radio keys when they walk away to pay for their fuel? No sparks there? No RF? What about the red-hot turbochargers? What about the starter motors and their huge sparky currents?

According to the experts I deal with, it is almost impossible to get a fuel vapour/air mixture of the density needed for an explosion in a filling station, even with a naked flame.
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