JetStar Cabin Crew EBA

[OldBoiler]

Congrats on the NO

Jetstarfa, you are completely right re the back pay. Some crew are so seriously deluded to vote the eba in just so they could secure the backpay. And all for what as you say, two live day rates, when this eba we will have to live with for 3 more years? Yeah as if!

Seriously think about BOC duties and how signing off after a BOC in the morning, and signing on AGAIN that night(the very same day) for another BOC, is going to make you feel. Shorthaul cant do it, so why should we. This EBA as it stands will have a serious impact on your health and family life.

I'm so glad the company got the message at last. The majority of the FA group said NO NO NO NO NO! Now lets see what the little leprechaun and his ditzy blonde sidekick can come up with now.

[speedbirdhouse]

Well done JQ cabin crew.

It's about time the thugs that run this [QF groop ,sic] company had their bluff called.

[sinala1]

Does anyone know what the % for and against was in the end?

[jetstarFA]

Percentage was close...
56 % - NO
43% - YES
1% differential

But as the Code of Conduct states - " NO Means NO......"

I can't re-iterate enough that this EBA is for the next 3 years.
Everyone I have spoken to in HBA, MEL , SEQ and SYD all agree that we are MORE than happy for Ryanair to succeed ,,, OOPS I mean Jetstar.

But you will need to dangle a bigger carrot in front of me to make anyone Vote YES...

[terminal2]

Remember the staff survey conducted following the start-up of the airline? It asked opinons on employee, management & lifestyle issues and perspectives. The results never surfaced and nothing more was ever said on the event.

I think the results are just in!

[Flugbegleiter]

Congratulations boys and girls I'm proud of you. Just remember - any conditions you give up now, you will never get back. Don't give up anything just for any lousy "one-off" bonus or "back pay". You guys should be in a strong position. You really are the future of the Qantas group.

[crew04]

JQ NoN EBA!

Congratulations boys and girls! I voted NO and for good reason! I know the company has no intention of budging at this point and i wait with anticipation for some industrial action!! i hope this shows the union that most of us are willing to stick together and FIGHT!!!!!

[OnTimeArrival]

Stay United and Strong

3% back pay....for normal cpi increases, not a payrise....

Have heard that Darwins and Perths will go ahead with 'dispensations' in line with the EBA that was just voted down - so much for FAAA assisting us. Have heard Ms FAAA Morgan to soon join the JQ Management ranks??????

We will have to make it clear what we want from the new EBA.
Yes, we do need to be able to communicate amoungst all JQ FA's with a transparent system (without smoke and mirrors and fear tactics )- speaking in understandable terms as you've pointed out with the 3%=2 live days pay etc..

The JQ pilots have several 'forums' 'hanging' directly off the JQ staff email site. They can be only accessed by those on a (private) mailing list or set up however you want. This could be the way to go with us - to communicate updates, ideas.
Any suggestions??? Word of mouth is slow. Ever wondered how pilots find out any kind of news so quickly - these kind of forums I am thinking.

[mrpaxing]

communication is the key

well done J* guys. to continue to go forward you now must use either this forum (or establish an alternate internet base) to communicate with each other. print details of this website (or whichever website you us) and distribute it amongst your members. now more then ever the flow of communication is paramount to stem J* management influence on individuals.

[Mr Seatback 2]

"Workplace Relations Minister Kevin Andrews on Sunday released the regulations governing the new laws, which come into effect next Monday, March 27"

FYI since there was a strong point made that the FAAA and co were lying to us all regarding these new laws and their effective date.

Not that it makes much difference - we sure won't have a new EBA inside a week!

[jetstarFA]

Like all new laws be it IR or tax,,, the real implications of their effect will not be know for years to come...

Do you really believe that an organisation like the QF Group would willy nilly put thousands of individuals on individual contract without seeing a precedent set, tested and a positive outcome produced.....

KIDS...... New IR laws are put in place for businesses with a workforce between 9-20.......

JETSTAR PUT ME ON A CONTRACT - 2 people in HR .... Like they could do 600 individual contracts

4 weeks annual leave
Minimum pay
No weekends
Penalties for working outside of 7am - 7pm

PALEESSSSSSSSSSE

Jetstar and the QF group would lose the flexibilty that an EBA has... The threats of individual contracts are just that ....idle and boring

If you believe the ninis and the joyceys of the world then it's your loss....

WAKE UP JQ cabin crew........

[Mr Seatback 2]

"Do you really believe that an organisation like the QF Group would willy nilly put thousands of individuals on individual contract without seeing a precedent set, tested and a positive outcome produced"

Uh...yes! They already have precedents set (not even under these new laws) , and you know the QF Group, wherever a saving can be made (however short term), they'll do it. Remember that Jetstar International doesn't have anything concrete of its' own yet, and it could be used as a lever against our own operations.

You're right that it will take a while for business to take full advantage of the legislation. QF has very deep pockets when it comes to waging war against its' employees. What will be interesting is not only the outcome for us, but also for other QF group employees across the board.

"KIDS...... New IR laws are put in place for businesses with a workforce between 9-20......."

Wrong. So wrong I nearly fell off my chair. Unfair dismissal laws are far more flexible for businesses with under 100 staff...but as for everything else...

"JETSTAR PUT ME ON A CONTRACT - 2 people in HR .... Like they could do 600 individual contracts
4 weeks annual leave
Minimum pay
No weekends
Penalties for working outside of 7am - 7pm"

You underestimate their resources. If a significant saving can be made, just watch the QF group pull out all the stops to ensure it happens. JQ Intl is an example of that.

JQ is under-resourced. QF isn't.

"Jetstar and the QF group would lose the flexibilty that an EBA has... The threats of individual contracts are just that ....idle and boring"

The FLEXIBILITY of an EBA? COMPARED TO AN INDIVIDUAL CONTRACT?

HR would love nothing more to than to reduce our EBA to a single page document! And that goes for most companies!

Don't take offence jetstarFA, but you underestimate both the strength of these new laws and the lengths that QF will go to ensure profitability - at any cost.

Don't believe me? Let's review:
* Qantas Long Haul BKK, AKL & LHR bases - all of which recruit continuously at the expense of Australian jobs
* AO, which was set up to counter Long Haul cost base, is now not as low cost as it needs to be - hence the set up of JQ Intl.
* QF has just made 400 odd engineers redundant, and is going after their own pilots for substantial savings
* QF Short Haul has recruited less than 150 permanent crew in the last 2.5 years - whilst recruiting hundreds of MAM casuals. MAM casuals now operate under a Contract C which includes 4 weeks of unpaid annual leave, which may be allocated at the company's discretion!

AND this is all before the new IR laws have taken place! Imagine how creative they'll be post reform?

I agree with your point of view jetstarFA. However, don't underestimate what we're up against. Our future depends on it.

[uz32]

On time arrival. Looks like the new IR laws have arrived on time (as suggested by FAAA). Maybe you should ring Work Choices (again)and ask them the introduction date. Time for you guys to show a united front. This is not the time to be spreading unfounded rumours about the people who represent you.
Work choices is real. Read the papers today. The actual regulations have been described as worse than first expected.
Stick together, attend meetings but most of all, don't turn on the people who represent you.

[cokecropduster]

* QF Short Haul has recruited less than 150 permanent crew in the last 2.5 years - whilst recruiting hundreds of MAM casuals. MAM casuals now operate under a Contract C which includes 4 weeks of unpaid annual leave, which may be allocated at the company's discretion!
quote]

Just one thing about this.... MAM casuals are not on Contract C. They are still on both (but mainly B) contract A and B. The new recruits will come through on contract c. I believe that they are not allocated work one month out of the year but there is nothing stopping them from making themselves available and working that month.

I really hope that Jet* gets what they deserve and not just get screwed like everyone else in the group.

[Mr Seatback 2]

Sorry CCD, you're right re: contract C...I MEANT to say that the new recruits were now on Contract C, not the existing ones. Obviously one too many wines prevented me from picking up my error! (hic!)

[OnTimeArrival]

Might I repeat myself - this is a forum for SUPPORTING EACH OTHER, meaning fellow cabin crew. It is also a forum for verifying rumours (pprune) and saying it like it is, on line - let's not pretend.... We need a leader who will support us and also verify/negate rumours - as Dixon wrote very recently to QF pilots about rumours about JQ and AIPA. Management and FAAA read forums and have 'ears'. If it is only a rumour - address it now and show some leadership.

Passing on positive ideas and suggestions is what is needed right now!! Time is precious and we need to speak out and put in writing what we want from the new EBA.

The facts are: I am a member of the union who I employ to represent my future. It is now Tuesday, EBA was voted down last Thursday. One email informed us of the EBA outcome and that things would be negotiated sometime this week???. Meetings with members before then????? We have to take some responsibility and meet ourselves or communicate amongst each other to decide as a group what we want - make it clear. FAAA told us to vote 'YES" so we have to work with them to say what we want changed/amended/added to. Some issues I have heard on line - international written into eba - will days off be taken in outports? is there 'right of return' to JQ short haul, boc allowances - + not having 4 in a row, no crew rest assured even if there are spare seats (no seat allocation), base protection, commissions written in, staff travel included, part time option protected. As we know, if it is not written in, it is easy to remove 'as per company/operational requirements'.

Suggestion: Set up a communication book in the crew rooms for crew to write their suggestions - why they voted no and what they think is reasonable - and send to our union rep. Hold meetings in conjunction with reps? What do you think will work???

[JulieJetstarFan]

Great points OnTimeArrival!

I think you guys have been completely ripped off by the FAAA in these negotiations. I cannot believe that after you voted down the EBA that they have turned around and agreed to dispensations to allow Jetstar to do the very flying that you voted no to. How on earth is that supposed to give Jetstar any sort of incentive to get back to the negotiating table?

Jetstar: "hello flight attendants, we want you to eat this **** sandwich"
F/As: "no thanks, we don't want to eat your **** sandwich, we are happier with the sandwich we already have"
in steps the FAAA, removes the F/As sandwich they were happy with and replaces it with the **** sandwich they didn't want

Would someone from the FAAA like to explain how this is looking after the people who have paid to be part of your association?

Maybe the Jetstar F/As should be looking at representation from someone who will actually look after their interests and not threaten them like the women who did the road show in Melbourne!

[Mr Seatback 2]

Julie...

"I think you guys have been completely ripped off by the FAAA in these negotiations. I cannot believe that after you voted down the EBA that they have turned around and agreed to dispensations to allow Jetstar to do the very flying that you voted no to. How on earth is that supposed to give Jetstar any sort of incentive to get back to the negotiating table?"

If you are a member (and really, that's your affair if you are or not), you would know that the FAAA met with their reps this morning regarding how to best move forward with the No vote. This info was sent out in an email to members this afternoon. Surveys will be circulated to all crew over the next few days.

The dispensation (singular) you refer to was given out before the EBA to allow JQ to plan 12 hour (2 sector/3 with a pax leg) BOC duty. By permitting this dispo, the company was able to employ crew for ADL and MDB and allow more flying to exist. Growth and employment for both the current and future crew. To deny ourselves access to work, whether or not we want to do it or not, is ridiculous in the current aviation and business climate.

Whilst you might not agree with the dispensation (and that is your choice), it is not in any unions interest to deny it's own workgroup access to more work and employment opportunities. 75 new crew have joined our ranks with many more to follow.

The new EBA, in whatever form it takes, offers the company and crew a lot more than is currently present. Remember - this is just one dispensation for one duty, not a whole set to replace the EBA.

Furthermore, this dispo was given on the proviso that a new EBA would be negotiated and agreed to. It does not automatically mean that it will carry over if a new agreement isn't reached.

In terms of voting no, 31% of crew voted yes - and 33% didn't vote at all. Not exactly encouraging numbers when the 'majority' is meant to have spoken.

"Would someone from the FAAA like to explain how this is looking after the people who have paid to be part of your association?

Maybe the Jetstar F/As should be looking at representation from someone who will actually look after their interests and not threaten them like the women who did the road show in Melbourne!"

Perhaps you should ask them. Toll free number 1800 733 222.

Or perhaps you find solace in hiding behind an anonymous user name, without having the benefit of being given answers to unsubstantiated and incorrect statements?

As for threatening people - who are you referring to?

[OnTimeArrival]

The Voice

Whether it is right or wrong, good or bad, 'JulieJQ Fan' is the just voicing what is being said and thought. Yes, the new JQ FA's will be on different conditions in line with the directions of the company. JQ Intl - off shore flight attendants will be yet again different than their Int Oz collegues and again 'different' than JQ short haul - just look at QF (even career progression eba conditions) and previously AN intl.

In the meantime, the conditions of new EBA have to be addressed, scrutinised and negotiated for the better. I have called for a meeting with the FAAA and its members in my base. It's what the members want. The reps have met with FAAA but we also need to work as a group and take some responsibilty in the process. The sooner the better.


PPS - hello......there is only one JQ asigned FAAA Industrial Relations negotiator (who also presented the 'Vote yes' campaign at the roadshows).

[Mr Seatback 2]

I have no problem with Julie, or for that matter, anyone else voicing their opinion. My problem is when opinion is masked as fact. Julie made the assertion that there were dispensationS (plural), as opposed to the singular one that has been issued in this instance.

As for the the negotiator you refer to, I don't recall her threatening anyone. The laws that are coming our way work in the complete interest of the employer - and not the employees. That is the truth. We are facing the biggest assault on our conditions (not just as crew, but as employees across Australia) since 1996. Industrial relations staff like ours are paid to WARN us of these dangers.

If people don't believe it will happen to them, especially within the QF group, we're doomed as a collective.

Furthermore, I dislike it when crew come into forums like these (including those at other websites) with questions, opinions, etc. yet no-one contacts the FAAA (?!?!) If you want answers, ask questions!