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Will AO crew become JQ Int. or QF Mainline Crew

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Old 1st Feb 2006, 09:29
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Will AO crew become JQ Int. or QF Mainline Crew

Your thoughts?
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Old 1st Feb 2006, 09:44
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Qantas may dump Australian Airlines

Author: James Hall
Publication: Australian Financial Review (46,Fri 27 Jan 2006)
Edition: First
Section: Companies and Markets
Keywords: Qantas (15),Australian (13),Airlines (13)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Qantas Airways is expected to announce plans to ditch loss-making international leisure carrier Australian Airlines later this year as it prepares to begin flying low-cost offshoot Jetstar on international routes in early 2007.

It's understood the plans involve keeping Australian Airlines' operations but absorbing them into either Qantas's or Jetstar's international operations and ultimately killing the Australian Airlines brand.

The announcement might come when Qantas reveals the first routes to be flown by Jetstar in May, but it is believed to be waiting for a clearer picture of the impact of the federal government's industrial relations overhaul before making a decision.

The difficulty under existing industrial relations legislation is that workers in one enterprise-bargaining agreement cannot easily be absorbed into a company with another, higher-paying EBA. This is expected to change when the Workplace Relations Amendment (Work Choices) Act comes into force later this year.

Qantas - already courting controversy with plans to move 3000 maintenance jobs offshore, also dependent on the Work Choices changes - is seeking to cut $3 billion in costs by 2008 as it battles intense competition and high fuel prices.

It is understood that flying three international carriers, Qantas, Jetstar and Australian Airlines, is a luxury the flagship carrier cannot afford.

Qantas chief financial officer Peter Gregg said the airline had several options in terms of the future of Australian Airlines.

"The company is continuing to work on those options and considering how Australian Airlines' operations will continue," Mr Gregg said.

Absorbed into Qantas before the airline's 1996 float, Australian Airlines, like Qantas, was formally owned by the government, but was originally a domestic carrier.

Qantas relaunched it in 2002 as a full-service, single-class carrier flying to destinations in the Asia-Pacific region, including Japan, Hong Kong, Phuket in Thailand, Singapore and Bali.

However, it has now been superseded by the lower-cost Jetstar International. It has been losing both money and patronage, and has suspended some routes.

As both Qantas and Jetstar have reported improvements in passenger numbers and revenue measurements, Australian Airlines' performance has declined, making it the worst performing of the six brands in the Qantas group.

For the 2005-06 financial year to date, Australian Airlines' passenger numbers have fallen 3.6 per cent to 347,000 from 360,000 in 2004-05.

Revenue per passenger kilometre has slumped 8.7 per cent to $1.58 million from $1.73 million and the crucial "revenue seat factor" - which gauges how revenue-efficient each seat on a flight is - has fallen 4.8 percentage points from 73.3 per cent to 68.5 per cent.

In financial year 2004-05, Australian Airlines lost $11.6 million before interest and tax, compared with a $1.1 million profit in 2003-04.

Qantas's decision in December to pay $24 million for 65 new Boeing aircraft, the first of which will be used in Jetstar's international expansion, tellingly omitted any orders of new aeroplanes for Australian Airlines.


KEY POINTS

* Qantas is believed to be awaiting industrial relations changes before cutting Australian Airlines loose.

* Qantas is waiting for 65 new Boeing aircraft for itself and Jetstar, but none are earmarked for AA.

Headline: Qantas may dump Australian Airlines
Author: James Hall
Edition: First
Section: Companies and Markets


the guys from AO should have a pre fit of J* uniform
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Old 1st Feb 2006, 10:46
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Without a doubt....

"Jetstar"
It is a model that is way cheaper than mainline.
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Old 2nd Feb 2006, 06:58
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My thoughts

It's too early to know how it will all go
It could all go to Jetstar int
It could go all to QF
Maybe Jetstar int would get Bali, Phuket whilst QF take the CNS - Asia routes.

If Qf get the routes AO crew wont get employed directly by QF as that would be even more expensive than AO on those routes. I reckon it would be like QF AKL where an outside company like Jetconnect provide the crew (ex AO crew) and QF get to have the routes with cheaper labour.

If it all went to JQ int and AO crew could all be offered jobs with JQ int and I would guess along with a 20 % pay cut. At least those that want to stay flying would have an option. Other bases could also be an option.

But until we know for sure its business as usual !

interesting times ahead
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Old 2nd Feb 2006, 08:30
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According to a poster on another aviation forum, new JQ recruits who attended a morning tea were told that domestic JQ crew would NOT go into JQ Intl... that there would be separate recruitment for Intl as Domestic is earmarked for big expansion... not sure how true this is, but interesting and exciting for anyone who's been trying to get in!!

By the sounds of it AO is going to be absorbed by JQ Intl.....

We got
some info from the horses mouth, so here it goes.
Jetstar Domestic which we have applied for will be exactly that, domestic.
We will not be trained on the International A330 aircraft that will arrive
early next year. That will be International which will be completely
separate and a separate recruitment just for them.

By the tone of the discussion, Jetstar domestic will not be able to simply go over to International. Later on there may be some type of career progression, but for the moment no. Domestic has huge plans for expansion with many
cities planned. Darwin was mentioned. There was rumour that Jetstar was
going to keep the 717's as the expansion was so fierce in such a short
time, but several people mentioned that we will only be trained on A320-200 and not the B717. There were so many conversations and we were movinga round the room so quickly, so many of us got in at the tail end of the discussions, but I did hear that more or less, Jetstar will eat up Australian Airlines out of Cairns and then not only serve those routes but expand to new ones. Phuket in Thailand, Hawaii, Vietnam etc

Now I did not hear all of this first hand so please don't give me a hard
time.
Interesting times if this is true!!!
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Old 2nd Feb 2006, 08:46
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FAAA Update

Crew may have read recent media reports about the possible closure of Australian Airlines later this year.

The article that has caused all of the recent speculation appeared in the Australian Financial Review on 27 January 2006. The article stated that Qantas has plans to absorb Austral ian Airlines’ operations into either Qantas’ or the Jetstar International’s operations and close down the Australian Airlines brand. The article stated that the announcement might come when Qantas reveals the first routes to be flown by Jetstar in May 2006 but it is believed that Qantas is waiting for a clearer picture of the impact of the federal government’s industrial relations overhaul before making a decision. This is a reference to Work Choices, the new industrial relations legislation which we understand largely takes effect from 1 March 2006.

The article quotes Peter Gregg, Chief Financial Officer as stating that the airline is considering several options for the future of Australian Airlines.

The FAAA has been in contact with Australian Airlines management in relation to these reports . The company’s clear position is that the media reports are pure speculation and it is “business as usual” for Australian Airlines. However, the article in the Australian Financial Review emphasises the fact that no new orders for aircraft for Australian Airlines were included in Qantas’ announcement in December for 65 new Boeing aircraft.

We understand that you may have concerns regarding such media speculation. The FAAA would love to reassure AO crew. However, our experience with being consulted by Qantas on such large scale decisions has been negative, to say the least. For example, the announcement by Qantas of a cabin crew base in London for Qantas long haul in April 2004 was made just a few hours before an announcement to the Stock Exchange, forcing the FAAA to mount a huge campaign to secure employment conditions for our members in Qantas’ long haul division. We will certainly be contacting AO management to ensure that the FAAA is consultedprior to any decisions concerning your future are made. We do not agree that consultation means telling the FAAA and crew after all of the decisions have been made for you.

Due to the passing of the new industrial laws, known as “Work Choices”, we will be seeking advice on the new provisions regarding likely scenarios for crew if they are absorbed into Jetstar International or Qantas, and will advise crew shortly.
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Old 2nd Feb 2006, 08:49
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Ive heard all sorts of rubbish around about international. The latest rumour I heard was offering positions to CM's to go across first, and LF's would have to apply separately. I dont know how much truth is in that rumour, I dont think we'll have to wait all that long to find out, if they are looking at a DEC start up ground schools will have to be done by then and recruitment can be a notoriously drawn out process.

On another note, I was recently discussing this with a management person and they said the most likely starting international bases would be MEL and SYD. He also said if there was to be flying out of QLD it would be BNE before CNS.
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Old 2nd Feb 2006, 13:05
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My view is that AO will have a brand change. The CNS operation will stay. So whatever happens CNS will still exist. I can't see QF L/H getting AOs' flying back (too expensive). Once new IR laws come into effect, you'll probably see AO a/c having a paint job to red/white with AO crew operating it. Like Impulse/QF Link. If that does happen, then look out for more expansion with crew on AO award. I can't see the Japan market doing a pay as you go system, so that counts out Jetstar. QF has brand power!!

(now go easy on me)
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Old 2nd Feb 2006, 21:31
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I heard the other day from a "very good" source that Hawaii for J* Inter. was meant to start sooner than later. So who will be crewing them I wonder. Korea,Vietnam &India plus Hawaii and Vancouver are all earmarked for J* Inter. A friend told me that at the AO recruitment session 2 weeks ago that AO were adamant that they would retain all CNS to Japan routes and would not be J* Inter. The plot thickens. Can't wait to see what the next 6 months brings.
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Old 3rd Feb 2006, 00:15
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The AFR article as per usual was relased at a time when some scare tactics are needed - this time being the AO pilots EBA. I can recall crew getting worked up when the cabin crew eba was being negotiated and articles appeared in the paper saying strikebreakers were being employed. I find it funny that this type of speculation always occurs at a time when the company needs to get its own way.

However, I am not doubting that something will happen to AO. A choice of base within the QF group would be nice ! But, it won't happen. As much as a possible AO merger angers me there is nothing we can do about it. EVERY part of the QF group is facing constant uncertainty and no-one is safe. In my eye AO one year ago was the safest place to be ! Imagine what will happen when Virgin start competing with JQ international with widebody aircraft also ......the race to the bottom continues !

Welcome aboard Qantas flight 69 the service to Tokyo operated by QantasCairns Ltd (aka AO ) codeshare with Jetstar International and JAL.
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Old 3rd Feb 2006, 08:35
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Qfskywalker raises an interesting point re : the compliant Australian Print Media .
The scenario normally goes something like this :

Qf needs leverage during important contract negotiations/EBA expiry.
Qf puts out press release stating competition is tuff, gas is
expensive, ozzie labour too dear , our future at risk , tough 12 months
ahead blah blah blah .
Lazy hacks from AFR ,SMH , The OZ and associated lesser journals
swallow the P R ,hook line and sinker and regurgitate with minimal
change to copy,none to "facts".

Far easier than doing simple research or asking simplest bloody question of QF i.e.
" Didn't your company make a billion last year ? "
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Old 3rd Feb 2006, 21:42
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Frank ,
I agree with you but the journo's are only interested in the free trip if they print a favouable story...but then again that is probably why the media magnate was offered the position on the board.

Although Darth has not got a fan club no-one has ever said he wasn't cunning and as an ex journo he is more than aware of the power of the media ,it is just a pity that the faaa does not understand that fact
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Old 7th Feb 2006, 02:26
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LOWERLOBE
would you stick to the issues with some constructive feedback for a change.
Must you always bring the FAAA into the mix. At the end of the day there is only so much you can blame them with.
The fact is the current officials were overwhelmingly elected. When they recently ran I dont recall anyone running against them.
If you dont like how they do business please stand up at the meetings and say your peace there. Or vote according to your conscience (that is if you are a member).This is a general discussion forum not a union bashing forum put here for your never ending negative insight to how the world , the Comapny and Long Haul should be!
You are either a bitter and embarrassed ex official or someone who is so unpopular you would never get elected if you tried.

if you were an ex official you would realise representing Long Haul crew is extremely difficult . basically our union is a small bunch of amatuers (trying their hardest - doing their best) against a big bunch of professionals. That is how it is. Not good odds but not bad results considering.
Your negativity is so apparent and overwhelming maybe you should leave flying before you give yourself stress related cancer.

A word of advice - dont worry - Be happy
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Old 7th Feb 2006, 03:51
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opportunity in EK

those guys who dont want to stick around for any possible redundancies or being shafted to j* int. can apply to emirates. they are training 60 new crew a month going to a 100 by years end. tHIS RECRUITMENT DRIVE WILL LAST FOR SEVERAL YEARS. THEY ARE LOOKING FOR 8000 NEW CABIN CREW.yes thats right 8000. and the contract is U$ 75000.- plus housing and a couple of id ticket as well. not bad
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Old 7th Feb 2006, 04:52
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Geoffstar

There's no doubt that AO will become GeoffStar International as can be seen by the throw the line out and see the reaction news item in the Financial Review. It's just a matter of time.
Hawke eye aka bad adventures & Co. Four posts and you're already showing your true colours. Careful your slip is showing. Yes this is a general discussion forum and I'm saying my piece here or if you've been to the bad adventures school of spelling saying my peace here.
You also say in your message to Lowerlobe that "basically our union is a small bunch of amateurs". Well you certainly got that right.
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Old 7th Feb 2006, 05:57
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or maybe adam air

GD has decided to buy 20% of indonesien lowcost carrier adam air. so maybe AO becomes Geoff/adam/ao/international JET*. just paint 4 different websites on the outside of the kytes and everything is allright.
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Old 7th Feb 2006, 08:03
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Hawke eye...

I wonder which one of the faaa disciples you are and have come back after reincarnation...

Unfortunately this is a small play and the cast members are

Qantas
Faaa
Us… (Crew)

So if we are to talk about the job, the faaa comes up with monotonous regularity besides we live in a world where there is a thing called free speech.

It’s a pity that the faaa is not as quick to counter the company as they are to criticism...


You are right one one part though (and that as pointed out by schlonghaul) is that the faaa are a bunch of amateurs..I think it is about time we bite the bullet and put in another $5 or more a week and hire a professional to deal with the professionals that are after our conditions

Ps I have yet to meet a crew member that has voted YES ….mmmmmm

Last edited by lowerlobe; 7th Feb 2006 at 09:33.
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Old 7th Feb 2006, 11:30
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Adam & Eve Air

Qcc2 that's interesting news. GD is certainly up to something and whatever that is it won't be good for Australian jobs and conditions, then again maybe he'll move to Jakarta. Yes I know wishful thinking. Next he'll probably want to buy Eve Air.... after all he think's he's God. Must go now as I have some cartoons to draw.
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Old 7th Feb 2006, 21:27
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I think old darth has aspirations to become the Kerry Murdoch of aviation but I think will be more like Howard Hughes....It would be great though for him to move to jakarta....
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Old 15th Feb 2006, 22:43
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Thanks for nothing Qantas......if any execs are reading this.....HURRY UP AND TELL US WHAT IS HAPPENING TO US.
AFTER EVERYTHING WE HAVE WORKED FOR AND DONE TO MAKE AO A SUCCESS - WE HAVE TO READ THESE ARTICLES AND THEN BE EXPECTED TO SMILE AT WORK.
CRUEL.
Author: James Hall
Publication: Australian Financial Review (19,Thu 16 Feb 2006)
Qantas Airways is to unveil a radical restructure of its top executive ranks and reporting
channels today, slashing the number of people reporting to chief executive Geoff Dixon and
paving the way for his succession.
It will result in the Qantas group being split into two distinct flying divisions: Qantas
and Jetstar.
The group is expected to report a $100 million slump in interim net profit to about $360
million today because of high fuel and restructuring costs.
The new Qantas division will be run by long-serving executive general manager of Qantas
Airlines John Borghetti and Jetstar's growing number of airlines is to be run by Jetstar
chief Alan Joyce.
Alongside chief financial officer Peter Gregg, Mr Joyce and Mr Borghetti are considered to
be leading the race to succeed Mr Dixon, who has hinted he might stay on as Qantas chief
until after the 2008 Olympics in Beijing. Mr Dixon's contract expires on July 1 next year.
All three candidates will have more responsibility and more people reporting to them after
the restructure.
As well as Mr Borghetti, Mr Joyce and Mr Gregg, under the new structure engineering boss
David Cox and perhaps one or two others in the group will be reporting directly to Mr
Dixon, compared with 11 executives at the moment.
Mr Borghetti has worked for Qantas all his career, joining the airline straight out of
school and rising through various senior sales and marketing roles.
The restructure represents a rapid rise for Mr Joyce since the launch of Jetstar in 2004
and comes as the low-cost offshoot prepares to announce international routes in May to
begin flying in early 2007.
These are expected to include routes within the Asia-Pacific region not serviced
profitably by Qantas, followed by routes to the United States and Europe in 2008 when
Jetstar takes delivery of the first of 65 next-generation Boeing 787 aircraft ordered by
Qantas in December.
The new head of Jetstar Asia, former head of the Singapore Mint Chong Phit Lian, will
report to Mr Joyce who last year turned down a job running his first employer, Aer Lingus
of Ireland.
Ms Chong does not start officially until March 15 but was working out of Jetstar's
Melbourne offices this week.
The head of regional airline QantasLink, Narendra Kumar, is expected to report to Mr
Borghetti under the new system, rather than Mr Dixon.
International leisure carrier Australian Airlines is expected to be axed later this year;
the future of its boss, Andrea Staines, is unclear.

Three other senior executives - chief information officer Fiona Balfour, head of alliances
Paul Edwards and head of associated businesses and freight Denis Adams -have recently
left.
A replacement for Ms Balfour is expected to be among several senior appointments unveiled
today, although it's expected some existing executives will be asked to do more.
[B]KEY POINTS
*The airline will be split into two divisions: Qantas and Jetstar.
*Jetstar will announce new international routes in May.
*Leisure carrier Australian Airlines is expected to be axed later this year.
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