Ballot counted: BA Cabin Crew support industrial action if EG300 Imposed
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Hang on a second.....Have I missed the point entirely?
Excuse me for shouting but WE HAVE NOT BALLOTED FOR INDUSTRIAL ACTION!!!!! We have balloted to remain in talks with BA over EG300. Did those petty few of you (not calling those of you who voted petty, just miffed that soooooo few bothered to vote at all) who actually voted bother to read the ballot paper in the BASSA newsletter?
What will happen is that if BASSA are not happy with the talks and BA enforce EG300 on us as it is, then we will vote again for industrial action, give the required notice and take it from there! BASSA is not opposed to EG300 in theory, they are opposed to the "one size fits all" attitude that it incorporates!
Excuse me for shouting but WE HAVE NOT BALLOTED FOR INDUSTRIAL ACTION!!!!! We have balloted to remain in talks with BA over EG300. Did those petty few of you (not calling those of you who voted petty, just miffed that soooooo few bothered to vote at all) who actually voted bother to read the ballot paper in the BASSA newsletter?
What will happen is that if BASSA are not happy with the talks and BA enforce EG300 on us as it is, then we will vote again for industrial action, give the required notice and take it from there! BASSA is not opposed to EG300 in theory, they are opposed to the "one size fits all" attitude that it incorporates!
Docs note
flybywire
Good point about sick notes but I think that in the UK you need to be sick for 7 days before a Doc is obliged to issue a sick note. Going into the surgery and demanding a note because "BA demand I have one" for one days illness is going to meet with a pretty cool respones, IMHO.
Good point about sick notes but I think that in the UK you need to be sick for 7 days before a Doc is obliged to issue a sick note. Going into the surgery and demanding a note because "BA demand I have one" for one days illness is going to meet with a pretty cool respones, IMHO.
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You'd be lucky to get to see a GP for 3 days while you're sick in the U.K.
This is something that has changed in the last two years.
I agree it would take some modifications to the current system, but it's about time this procedure was revisited.
Alternatively, have a doctor available at BAHS - give us back BAHS at Gatwick. I am sure that all the sickness loss is much more than what BAHS did and would cost.
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Last time, I tried to see a GP several months ago, it took 4 days. My sore throat had cleared up, but i went along anyway to tell them what a crap system they had, and how antibiotics 4 days ago would have cleared up my infection without me losing my voice. The GP just shrugged his shoulders. The new system is first come, first served. The phones are red hot from 0800. I got through at about 0815, by which time, all the appointments for that day had been filled. You couldnt book an appointment for the following day.
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EG300 bring it on down.
The sooner it comes in the better.
CC stop having pity on yourselves you lot earn far too much for what you do and the time you get off between trips. Pilots accepted it because we are realists and we as professionals want to drag BA out of dinasour working practices. You ALL should cosider youselves lucky BA ever employed you.
One day you might have to work for a living, now we don't want that DO WE???
The sooner it comes in the better.
CC stop having pity on yourselves you lot earn far too much for what you do and the time you get off between trips. Pilots accepted it because we are realists and we as professionals want to drag BA out of dinasour working practices. You ALL should cosider youselves lucky BA ever employed you.
One day you might have to work for a living, now we don't want that DO WE???
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sevenforeseven
Jeeeeeezzzzz.........Maybe it's not even worth pointing out to you that some of us really work hard here. Not all bases have the same perks as LHR. Time off between trips? hahahahaah. Earning too much? hahahahaha. You know your company so well.
Anyway. One day will come when all of us reach the "golden runway" , have lots of time off and earn all that money you're talking about.
And I really hope that when that day finally comes, I will be spared from flying with a professional pilot like you.
FBW.
CC stop having pity on yourselves you lot earn far too much for what you do and the time you get off between trips. Pilots accepted it because we are realists and we as professionals want to drag BA out of dinasour working practices. You ALL should cosider youselves lucky BA ever employed you.
Anyway. One day will come when all of us reach the "golden runway" , have lots of time off and earn all that money you're talking about.
And I really hope that when that day finally comes, I will be spared from flying with a professional pilot like you.
FBW.
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sevenforeseven I think if you were to compare our wages, and Terms and Conditions, to the likes of the other european flag carriers such as AF/KL/LH/IB etc you will see that BA gets their moneys worth. Also the likes of the JL, NH and NZ LHR based crews. It isn't our fault that our main london competitors Virgin and bmi pay their staff rubbish.
And just another question. Out of curiousity, say BA DO ageee to change EG300 for the Cabin Crew. Then BALPA jump on the band wagon and say 'OK, we want the same exemptions, EG300 is unfair on the pilots'. Where will you stand then?
And just another question. Out of curiousity, say BA DO ageee to change EG300 for the Cabin Crew. Then BALPA jump on the band wagon and say 'OK, we want the same exemptions, EG300 is unfair on the pilots'. Where will you stand then?
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BASSA haven't got any exemptions so far. All the planned changes to EG300 were agreed at the BATUC, which BASSA did not attend. Lets wait and see if they actually manage to achieve anything other than a face saving change of name because they're already trying to claim the BATUC changes as a victory for BASSA.
Now if you want to compare BA crew to LH/KL/AF then why do you have so much more sickness than them?
Now if you want to compare BA crew to LH/KL/AF then why do you have so much more sickness than them?
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sevenfourseven: so you "profesionals" want to drag BA from the dinasour age hey. Thats funny! you must be about 1out of 4 pilots that actually agree with the system. Talking to many of you guys up the front, all I hear is bitching about the attendance system and how you are being far too over worked. Working to maximum scheme limits and feeling ill after a 4 day stint. However, not being able to call sick after you've come down with a cold and blocked ears as you may enter one of the various stages of the attendance policy. Attending a doctor to legally sign you off and then coming back to work thinking that you won't enter any stage of the policy. Only to find that it doesn't make a difference that you've managed to get a doctor's certificate to prove that you couldn't fly because of your cold and blocked ears. After all this, you still enter the process. Now that is what I call fair!!
We don't want to stop the proces coming in all together. Believe me, I'm all for it. I think it will reduce the sickness rate. However, it needs to be done in a fair and pratical way. We cannot be put into this one size fits all way of working. If we have an ear infection, we can't work as risk of bursting an eardrum will be exceptionally high. However, someone in an office can physically go to work and do their job. If anyone, regardless of their job, has a certificate from the doctor signing them off work, it shows that they are actually ill and should be warrented. Hwever, in your case, sevenfourseven, it isn't. This is what we are appealing against.
sevenfourseven, we are in the real world and I think it's time that some of you went to your own union and sort this mess that you have got yourselves into. We have seen what it has done to you guys, and wouldn't want it to be repeated. It's a unfair process that way it is now and needs to come in line with the "real world" way of working, as you say.
We don't want to stop the proces coming in all together. Believe me, I'm all for it. I think it will reduce the sickness rate. However, it needs to be done in a fair and pratical way. We cannot be put into this one size fits all way of working. If we have an ear infection, we can't work as risk of bursting an eardrum will be exceptionally high. However, someone in an office can physically go to work and do their job. If anyone, regardless of their job, has a certificate from the doctor signing them off work, it shows that they are actually ill and should be warrented. Hwever, in your case, sevenfourseven, it isn't. This is what we are appealing against.
sevenfourseven, we are in the real world and I think it's time that some of you went to your own union and sort this mess that you have got yourselves into. We have seen what it has done to you guys, and wouldn't want it to be repeated. It's a unfair process that way it is now and needs to come in line with the "real world" way of working, as you say.
Cabin Crew with Colds etc...
I'm increasing frequently having to offload cabin crew after 2 sectors of a 4 sector day because they won't go sick until they are literally incapacitated with the pain of blocked ears. I'm also requesting early and gentle descents from ATC for the same reason.
It doesn't happen every day, but I wonder if anyone is keeping a log of these events to see whether Cabin Crew are taking an increasingly unnecessary risk with their health. At my present employer, flightdeck tend to be under very little pressure to fly if we are unfit.
We recently had a Senior off flying for 6 weeks with a burst eardrum due to "finger trouble" following an unpressurised take off. Nobody else on the flight was affected so she must have been unfit to fly.
If Crew are incapacitated with the pain during a normal descent, then what use will they be to anybody during an emergency descent? It's all becoming a bit of a lottery.
It doesn't happen every day, but I wonder if anyone is keeping a log of these events to see whether Cabin Crew are taking an increasingly unnecessary risk with their health. At my present employer, flightdeck tend to be under very little pressure to fly if we are unfit.
We recently had a Senior off flying for 6 weeks with a burst eardrum due to "finger trouble" following an unpressurised take off. Nobody else on the flight was affected so she must have been unfit to fly.
If Crew are incapacitated with the pain during a normal descent, then what use will they be to anybody during an emergency descent? It's all becoming a bit of a lottery.
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Well the scheduled 'final end of the road talks' have now concluded.
And the result? Well I don't really know(!!)
From the BASSA website:
"Talks suspended at 01.15 Saturday morning. They will continue through the weekend to try and reach a conclusion. It should not be lost on our membership that BASSA, by virtue of its stand alone situation outside of EG300, that we have made substantial inroads in the most sensitive areas of the policy. These achievements will be enjoyed by other trade groups as well, assuming we can reach agreement with BA.
We hope to tell you more as things develop, but please remember these negotiations have been difficult to say the least - mainly because other trade groups signed up to the policy 15 months ago. If BALPA had been more thoughtful and not rushed to sign up - our subsequent negotiations would have much easier!"
And the result? Well I don't really know(!!)
From the BASSA website:
"Talks suspended at 01.15 Saturday morning. They will continue through the weekend to try and reach a conclusion. It should not be lost on our membership that BASSA, by virtue of its stand alone situation outside of EG300, that we have made substantial inroads in the most sensitive areas of the policy. These achievements will be enjoyed by other trade groups as well, assuming we can reach agreement with BA.
We hope to tell you more as things develop, but please remember these negotiations have been difficult to say the least - mainly because other trade groups signed up to the policy 15 months ago. If BALPA had been more thoughtful and not rushed to sign up - our subsequent negotiations would have much easier!"
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If BALPA had been more thoughtful and not rushed to sign up - our subsequent negotiations would have much easier
Last edited by Hand Solo; 23rd Oct 2005 at 07:12.
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Good grief I must be psychic, it's exactly as I predicted! You've now got AMP and the only changes are those previously agreed at BATUC! So much for the 95% vote for a ballot, you've got AMP and your reps haven't changed it in any way. I guess the days of crew shortages over Royal Ascot and Wimbledon are numbered! I bet they'll still try to say its all BALPAs fault.
Lets watch the sickness on those 2 sector earlies plummet.
Lets watch the sickness on those 2 sector earlies plummet.
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BASSA and BA agree on new attendance management.
Well it seems BASSA and BA management have agreed the implementation of the EG300 Attendence Management Process.
The main changes are:
- Fairness and Consistency of Discretion: A 'review body' to be set up comprising management, BASSA and CC89 reps to administer and monitor when disretion can be used in deciding whether an absence should or shouldn't count towards a 'trigger point'. This replaces the original offer of BA managers to soley implement and decide on what constitutes 'discretion'.
- Days Off: Days off/MBT days will not count as sick days. So if your roster is 3 day trip followed by 3 days off followed by a 4 day trip and you were sick for both trips it will be counted as 1 occassion but only 7 days sick.
- Monitoring EG300 implementation: Will now be discussed via a negotiating forum instead of a consultative forum.
All Cabin Crew will be balloted on BASSA's negotiations with the recommendation to accept. All crew will then be paid the GBP1,000 paid to other staff.
The main changes are:
- Fairness and Consistency of Discretion: A 'review body' to be set up comprising management, BASSA and CC89 reps to administer and monitor when disretion can be used in deciding whether an absence should or shouldn't count towards a 'trigger point'. This replaces the original offer of BA managers to soley implement and decide on what constitutes 'discretion'.
- Days Off: Days off/MBT days will not count as sick days. So if your roster is 3 day trip followed by 3 days off followed by a 4 day trip and you were sick for both trips it will be counted as 1 occassion but only 7 days sick.
- Monitoring EG300 implementation: Will now be discussed via a negotiating forum instead of a consultative forum.
All Cabin Crew will be balloted on BASSA's negotiations with the recommendation to accept. All crew will then be paid the GBP1,000 paid to other staff.
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The review body was agreed upon several months ago by all the other unons, it's not a BASSA win or even a change.
EG300 doesn't include days off or MBTs as sickness. I don't know if it that has been the case since the outset or if the policy was changed at the same time as the review body but again, it's not a BASSA win. Pilots have had days off excluded from the sickness totals for some time.
Sounds nice but what does it actually mean? If the negotiations go as well as the last lot, where you've talked for 5 days and come out with the same AMP as everyone else, then it seems a bit pointless.
EG300 doesn't include days off or MBTs as sickness. I don't know if it that has been the case since the outset or if the policy was changed at the same time as the review body but again, it's not a BASSA win. Pilots have had days off excluded from the sickness totals for some time.
Monitoring EG300 implementation: Will now be discussed via a negotiating forum instead of a consultative forum
