Ballot counted: BA Cabin Crew support industrial action if EG300 Imposed
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Instead of a one size fits all policy (EG300) how about BA managers actually earn their keep and manage. I know most of them will find it pretty difficult as most are over paid messengers and brainless flunkies.
Maybe its old fashioned but maybe your line manager should actually "manage" you. If you persistently have a problem then this should be dealt with by your manager.
Worrying people unneccesarily with this "moronic" policy is at best a sign of incompetence and at worst low level bullying.
FYI, two people have been sacked to date under EG300.
As for the pilot fraternity, well their naiviety knows no bounds. Its not their fault that they try to behave professionally with an amateurish set-up like BA.
Harry (fit as a fiddle, not in EG300, waiting to meet a competent BA manager)
Maybe its old fashioned but maybe your line manager should actually "manage" you. If you persistently have a problem then this should be dealt with by your manager.
Worrying people unneccesarily with this "moronic" policy is at best a sign of incompetence and at worst low level bullying.
FYI, two people have been sacked to date under EG300.
As for the pilot fraternity, well their naiviety knows no bounds. Its not their fault that they try to behave professionally with an amateurish set-up like BA.
Harry (fit as a fiddle, not in EG300, waiting to meet a competent BA manager)
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The thing is, we know full well that as soon as BASSA calls for an industrial ballot the management will back down. As they did last year with our pay dispute.
And if they don't and if it does go to a strike, like has already been said........only a hundred or so actually need to picket. It's the disruption 2,000 crew do when calling in sick that can really do the damage.
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Harry - telling us 2 people have been sacked by EG300 tells us nothing.
Who were they? Are they people we should all be glad to see the back of, or are they unfortunate people who deserve our support?
If they are bludgers then good riddance.
If they are victims, then lets lend them our support.
It makes a key difference.
Who were they? Are they people we should all be glad to see the back of, or are they unfortunate people who deserve our support?
If they are bludgers then good riddance.
If they are victims, then lets lend them our support.
It makes a key difference.
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It's quite obvious that a lot of people don't know what they have signed up for. You cannot be terminated under EG300 for "skiving" or "bludging". That is covered under a separate employment policy.
You can only have your contract terminated under EG300 if you have been absent due to sickness or illness. When you reach stage 4 a decision will be made as to whether you are deemed fit enough to continue in your job.
So, in conclusion, EG300 is a disciplinary process which WILL result in your contract being terminated if you are unable to do your duties due to "sickness" or "illness". Taking time off to go to Wimbledon and then being found out is a different employment policy.
Get the employment handbook out and read what your union has signed you up for. At least the cabin crew unions protects its members.
Harry (and I got £1000 this month as BALPA signed me up for this deal)
You can only have your contract terminated under EG300 if you have been absent due to sickness or illness. When you reach stage 4 a decision will be made as to whether you are deemed fit enough to continue in your job.
So, in conclusion, EG300 is a disciplinary process which WILL result in your contract being terminated if you are unable to do your duties due to "sickness" or "illness". Taking time off to go to Wimbledon and then being found out is a different employment policy.
Get the employment handbook out and read what your union has signed you up for. At least the cabin crew unions protects its members.
Harry (and I got £1000 this month as BALPA signed me up for this deal)
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Totally respect your point Carrnage.
2,000 crew going sick though represents almost the entire LHR S/H operation.
I stand by what I have said earlier. I agree with a new attendance monitoring system in principle, but it has to be made a bit more specific to enable to it support those who are genuinely having a run of bad luck and get ill a few times.
My prediction still stands though. I reckon management will back down or reach a 'compromise' with BASSA to save face.
And i'm willing to put my angelic reputation on it! lol
So, I say, lets meet back here in two weeks and see who is right?
Anyone fancy placing bets? lol
2,000 crew going sick though represents almost the entire LHR S/H operation.
I stand by what I have said earlier. I agree with a new attendance monitoring system in principle, but it has to be made a bit more specific to enable to it support those who are genuinely having a run of bad luck and get ill a few times.
My prediction still stands though. I reckon management will back down or reach a 'compromise' with BASSA to save face.
And i'm willing to put my angelic reputation on it! lol
So, I say, lets meet back here in two weeks and see who is right?
Anyone fancy placing bets? lol
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I reckon management will back down or reach a 'compromise' with BASSA to save face.
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Harry - you are quite right, EG300 is not the process to get rid of you if you are wagging time off. However if through the EG300 triggers you are "discovered" you get put into EG901 which may well see you sacked for skiving. Did these two get sacked via EG300 or EG901?
The worrying thing is that people uneducated in flying and medicine make the descision as to whether you are fit enough to do you job. A run of something nasty which clears up in a year could see you "supported" into another job, when in actual fact you are fit as a fiddle. That's what upsets me about the policy.
The worrying thing is that people uneducated in flying and medicine make the descision as to whether you are fit enough to do you job. A run of something nasty which clears up in a year could see you "supported" into another job, when in actual fact you are fit as a fiddle. That's what upsets me about the policy.
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Sean Dell, what do you have against British Airways ?
If you're with the company, may I suggest quitting? You're obviously unhappy here. If you're not with us, why do you have so much hatred inside of you towards BA, it's staff and it's associated Unions?
If you're with the company, may I suggest quitting? You're obviously unhappy here. If you're not with us, why do you have so much hatred inside of you towards BA, it's staff and it's associated Unions?
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So One STep Beyond you are placing a wager that management won't back down or reach a compromise?
OK, let's see within the weeks what happens.
WW has said himself that BA is a totally different beast that EI (Daily Mail full page interview Thursday 6 Oct), that he plans on continuing along Eddingtons path and realises that BA will not require the same 'radical' surgery that EI did.
Judging by the article (see if its online at the daily mail site), it seems he will be focusing on streamlining processes in line for the move to T5. And baggage handlers get more than one mention, office/ground staff also. Cabin crew and pilots are mot mentioned.
OK, let's see within the weeks what happens.
WW has said himself that BA is a totally different beast that EI (Daily Mail full page interview Thursday 6 Oct), that he plans on continuing along Eddingtons path and realises that BA will not require the same 'radical' surgery that EI did.
Judging by the article (see if its online at the daily mail site), it seems he will be focusing on streamlining processes in line for the move to T5. And baggage handlers get more than one mention, office/ground staff also. Cabin crew and pilots are mot mentioned.
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This is the actual message on the BASSA website:
"In response to the consultative ballot on EG 300, we have offered three dates to BA to try and resolve our differences.
We can supply a negotiating team for 19/20/21 of October, and we are more than prepared to use all three days and stay all night if need be.
However, BA managers are indicating BA will impose this policy on the 15th October - if that is the case we will proceed with our Industrial Ballot on the 16th October."
"In response to the consultative ballot on EG 300, we have offered three dates to BA to try and resolve our differences.
We can supply a negotiating team for 19/20/21 of October, and we are more than prepared to use all three days and stay all night if need be.
However, BA managers are indicating BA will impose this policy on the 15th October - if that is the case we will proceed with our Industrial Ballot on the 16th October."
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"BA will not require the same radical treatment as EI did"
Absolutely right,- its situation is much more serious,- from top to bottom, across the whole business. It has a wonderful opportunity now to reform and restructure itself entirely as if it were starting afresh and without the legacy of 60 years accumulation of inefficiency heaped one upon another. It needs to take the pain once and for all and redesign itself as a new business would. Only then it will be able to afford to grow, create new jobs and secure a future for its people. Protecting redundant roles, job descriptions, working practices, behaviours, introversion, reward systems etc. will only lead to it going the way of the printing business, the London docks, coal mining, steelworks, the car industry etc etc. It and all its staff much seize the moment and not cling onto the poles of the past. ALL its people must find a new desire and ENTHUSIASM to make it succeed and to whatever it takes to make it the customers first choice.
Absolutely right,- its situation is much more serious,- from top to bottom, across the whole business. It has a wonderful opportunity now to reform and restructure itself entirely as if it were starting afresh and without the legacy of 60 years accumulation of inefficiency heaped one upon another. It needs to take the pain once and for all and redesign itself as a new business would. Only then it will be able to afford to grow, create new jobs and secure a future for its people. Protecting redundant roles, job descriptions, working practices, behaviours, introversion, reward systems etc. will only lead to it going the way of the printing business, the London docks, coal mining, steelworks, the car industry etc etc. It and all its staff much seize the moment and not cling onto the poles of the past. ALL its people must find a new desire and ENTHUSIASM to make it succeed and to whatever it takes to make it the customers first choice.
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Skylion - how are we in worse shape than EI? We are the most profitable airline in the world right now - entirely different from one that is about to go to the wall.
Can you explain how the coal minig industry, ship building and british car building are better now the unions have been "broken"? I for one would not like to be in any of those industries.
Now don't get the wrong idea, BA needs to change some of its working practices etc, but jumping in with a big axe will see us go the way of Rover, as everyone will be so hacked off with it, that productivity will get worse. When the management then try to get it going again, it will fail and so will we. The problem with the way the above industries were dealt with is that the "breaking" was too heavy. The best way is to work with people, rather than against them and make changes where you can. While we are making profit the unions are not just going to sit and watch as their agreements are torn up. If we work together, it will make the transition smoother and less painful for everyone.
Can you explain how the coal minig industry, ship building and british car building are better now the unions have been "broken"? I for one would not like to be in any of those industries.
Now don't get the wrong idea, BA needs to change some of its working practices etc, but jumping in with a big axe will see us go the way of Rover, as everyone will be so hacked off with it, that productivity will get worse. When the management then try to get it going again, it will fail and so will we. The problem with the way the above industries were dealt with is that the "breaking" was too heavy. The best way is to work with people, rather than against them and make changes where you can. While we are making profit the unions are not just going to sit and watch as their agreements are torn up. If we work together, it will make the transition smoother and less painful for everyone.
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Jetsream Rider - no one doubts BA's profits, but you seem to have missed Mr Walsh's early speeches, interviews etc where he openly admits to wanting to cut the "slack" and some out dated work practices BA uses. His aim is a cost efficient airline to the very last penny and even more profits to aid BA's expansion.
Aside from the above - I see crews as concerned over the EG300 as they will have to turn up for work rather than deciding which trips they do and don't do!
Aside from the above - I see crews as concerned over the EG300 as they will have to turn up for work rather than deciding which trips they do and don't do!
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Having worked for BA I know that most of arguments about how working as crew equates to more exposure to colds etc than other jobs are rubbish. Crew use the sickness aspect to control their lives.Trips to NRT, BKK, KUL etc kept the same crews on the rosters from the published dates to the actual trip whereas MIA, BOM, DEL, DAC etc saw numerous changes right until the briefing! Colds/sickness only occur on MIA, BOM, DEL etc....
Don't get me wrong, I was no saint and it was (and probably still is) commonplace to hear " I won't be doing that trip...I'm due a sick!". Yes, I had a very easy life as BA crew ... and I still pinch myself with what people (used to ) get away with
Don't get me wrong, I was no saint and it was (and probably still is) commonplace to hear " I won't be doing that trip...I'm due a sick!". Yes, I had a very easy life as BA crew ... and I still pinch myself with what people (used to ) get away with
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That tack generally doesn't work anymore Miche.
Scheduling got wise to this years ago so now a decently profitable trip is rostered after the likes of BOM DEL DAC etc. So if you go sick for your DEL you will lose your NRT following it as well.
Latest update from BASSA today:
"The talks on EG300 will take place next week on 19/20/21. Both management and BASSA have recognised that these three days will be the end of the line, one way or the other.
We have made progress on what was originally proposed last year, and because of BASSA's stance all other groups have benefitted as well.
However, we have not reached agreement on some key elements relating to the cabin crew job/lifestyle. All we can promise you is every effort will be made on our part at those talks. "
Scheduling got wise to this years ago so now a decently profitable trip is rostered after the likes of BOM DEL DAC etc. So if you go sick for your DEL you will lose your NRT following it as well.
Latest update from BASSA today:
"The talks on EG300 will take place next week on 19/20/21. Both management and BASSA have recognised that these three days will be the end of the line, one way or the other.
We have made progress on what was originally proposed last year, and because of BASSA's stance all other groups have benefitted as well.
However, we have not reached agreement on some key elements relating to the cabin crew job/lifestyle. All we can promise you is every effort will be made on our part at those talks. "
Last edited by keeperboy; 12th Oct 2005 at 09:17.
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Crew use the sickness aspect to control their lives.Trips to NRT, BKK, KUL etc kept the same crews on the rosters from the published dates to the actual trip whereas MIA, BOM, DEL, DAC etc saw numerous changes right until the briefing! Colds/sickness only occur on MIA, BOM, DEL etc....
That's what they don't want to understand and fail to recognise. They should hit hard those people who skip such duties, and should support who's genuinely sick.
This job is like no other, it's cruel to adopt the same rules as for other departments in the company. They should adapt tyhe same rules to this role.
Example. I am off sick at the moment. I don't have a cold, I can stand on my feet and apparently could do the job perfectly if not for one thing. I have had some invasive dental surgery recently, and on my first flight (and the last before I reluctantly had to report sick) 48 hours after the surgery as BAHS advised, I was literally in agony. The change in cabin pressure (especially after take off) made me feel so bad that I was scared the skipper would leave me downroute.
Now I am on strong antibiotics to try to solve this as quickly as possible.
If I were working on the ground I would have no problems, I could do my job easily. But I can't, and management must recognise this! EG300 as it is now is no good for us. Ask the Nigels. The majority of them -especially here at LGW- are already biting their fingers after only a few months since the implementation.
Cheers.
FBW.
Last edited by flybywire; 12th Oct 2005 at 11:09.
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You're spouting the same rubbish BASSA feed you about the pilots. We are not biting our fingers about the AMP in fact i think its settled in quite nicely. There are 0 pilots in the latter stages.
Every department has reasons not they cant work when others can, some have very frequent industrial accidents that do not affect other departments. Others have regular medicals and large lists of what they cannot work for.
If they change the rules for Cabin Crew to exempt illnesses they will just always call in with "ear infections" and "stomach bugs" for Wimbledon/ Miamis instead
What BASSA are striking about is a cabin crew members inalienable right to chuck a sicky whan they fancy it.
Every department has reasons not they cant work when others can, some have very frequent industrial accidents that do not affect other departments. Others have regular medicals and large lists of what they cannot work for.
If they change the rules for Cabin Crew to exempt illnesses they will just always call in with "ear infections" and "stomach bugs" for Wimbledon/ Miamis instead
What BASSA are striking about is a cabin crew members inalienable right to chuck a sicky whan they fancy it.
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If they change the rules for Cabin Crew to exempt illnesses they will just always call in with "ear infections" and "stomach bugs" for Wimbledon/ Miamis instead
I believe the answer is: follow what other airlines do in Europe.
In Italy, for example, to "call in sick" you have to have a doctor's certificate that states you've got something, even if you stay away for one day, and to go back to work you have to have another dosctor's certificate that states you're now fit to fly again.
It's a pain in the rear, but helps preventing recurrent episodes over wimbledon (what's the big deal about it anyway) etc. and works well for people who are genuinely sick. Most doctors wouldn't lie on paper anyway, or would they?
I am glad EG300 works fine for you, at least someone is happy. Most of my pilot friends/colleagues though aren't as happy as you. And most of them have already waved goodbye to that appealing bonus.
Ciao
FBW