Virgin Crew Pay Ballot Have You Had Enough

[Leezyjet]

If working as Crew is so bad but you don't want to leave, then you could always try working on the ground. VS are always looking for Psa's and starting pay is around £13K a year for a basic Psa but there are other jobs that pay more (and some that pay less), so a bit more than cabin crew (although the way VS cabin crew look/treat and speak to the ground staff sometimes you would think otherwise).

Although you don't get any allowances, have to buy your own food whilst at work, are not allowed to sleep whilst working an 18 hour day, cannot live in the cheaper parts of the country and commute, don't get extra payments if you are working staff down (as is normal every day) and actually have more work to do taking up the slack, have a harder job to do generally (don't believe me - ask anyone who has done both crew and ground staff and they will always say working on the ground is much harder) and get absolutley no recognition at all from anyone, no trips to Necker on offer for the ground staff - not even the ones who had to deal with the aftermath of the G-VSKY accident (yes once crew have got them off the a/c and go off for counselling, who deals with the pax then for the hours and days afterwards - oh yes that be the ground staff)

Oh and the ground staff have no union at all, so can't even negotiate a pay rise, they just get what is offered and that is it.

So stop your moaning and whinging, there are other options out there for you. Ever though of working overtime in the Clubhouse to increase your earnings on your 12+ days off each month ?.

[Denzil]

If ground staff don't have a union it's their fault, the company can't stop you!!!

[sinala1]

Leezyjet your comments are welcome in this discussion however you have thoroughly misinterpreted the spirit of the topic. We are not "whingeing and moaning" about being crew - we are just asking for fair pay and pay increases for what we do.

have to buy your own food whilst at work

Yes well its somewhat difficult for us to do the same thing! Not too many cafes that I know of at 38,000ft...

not allowed to sleep whilst working an 18 hour day

Although I dont think your "18 hour"days (which I am sure are not rostered that way - if they are then something is seriously wrong) cross up to 9 time zones - and dont forget our days start at work generally 2 hours before flight departure, possibly then a 12 hour flight, a half hours worth of disembarking pax then security checks, followed by sometimes a hour wait in immigration before another hour on the bus to the hotel, and then of course the hotels that you have to wait for your rooms in (eg barbados - up to 3 hours sometimes) and so forth....

have a harder job to do generally (don't believe me - ask anyone who has done both crew and ground staff and they will always say working on the ground is much harder)

Ground staff definately get the short end of the stick with pax, and I will always always defend the fantastic role ground staff play in sorting out many disputes before they reach the a/c door, but you guys can always call the police if it gets out of hand - again, we cant! I have done a lot of ground crew helping back at my previous airline, and yes the work is very hard - but hard in a different way to what crew is.

Ever though of working overtime in the Clubhouse

Apparently (although I am happy to be corrected on this) overtime is no longer available for people who want to start out at the clubhouse - only available to those who have been previously doing it


The point here is that we are *not* complaining about our work as I mentioned earlier - there is a lot of responsibility that goes with being crew and anyone working on the ground has a lot of backup that we dont - you can call the fire brigade, the police, the paramedics, you can go home early if you get sick - these are all different perks to the perks that we get as crew. The debate here is not about who has the harder job or is more deserving of a payrise - I am sure the majority of frontliners in this company deserve one - the point is that we got offered an insult of a paydeal, have said no, and hope that we are able to negotiate something that is more realistic to the job we do, whilst being sustainable by the company!



(End Rant)

[keeperboy]

Leezyjet, in the UK it is your legal right to be represented by a union. If the majority of the groundstaff workforce want one, VS is obliged to acknowledge this.

Although I am no longer VS crew, I can honestly say we had to fight tooth and nail to get a union in. And when we did, things did improve albeit only for the short term. I left Virgin for BA some time after.

I think what you have to accept here is the underlying culture around Virgin and bmi. They seem to want their crew to come join them, stay a year or so, then leave. I guess there must be some financial advantage there for them. Never having to give real financial incremements, not having to contribute much to pensions, not having loads of ladies on maternity leave etc.

[virgincrew99]

oh Leezyjet

you sound like the rest of us that work for virgin that feel under valued under paid and work like dogs there is no need to argue between ourselves we all work for the same company and no how badly we are all treated we are all simply voicing our opinons if you think cabin crew have a better deal i doubt there is anything stopping you from becoming crew then see how apparently "good" the conditions are!

and as previously stated by sinala1 crew can nolonger work in the clubhouse!

[ozflyboy]

Any News?

Hi Guys,

All is quiet - any news on what is happening with the pay increases.....are you receiving them? When does it look like it will be happening??

Heading over there on the DJ/VA exchange in November - would be great if we do have a pay rise and are paid a little closer to what we do here at Virgin Blue!! Would make the trainsition a little easier......

Cheers,

Oz

[Virgin Boi]

Hi guys, I'm a Virgin Atlantic junior crew member - just thought I'd add my very simple thoughts.

Last month I worked the following trips:

4 night Antigua
3 night Las Vegas
4 night Las Vegas
2 night San Francisco
2 night Los Angeles

Had only 7 days off (my choice - would love to have taken more but cant afford them!).

I took home £902 (best month ever) + around £300 in left over allowances.

----
My friend who is a permanent junior at Britannia Manchester took home just over £1800 and worked far less than me.
----

This month, surprise surprise, my name has appeared on this newly made up so called 'high hours' list which means I can no longer swap trips, and have to do exactly what I'm rostered.

So much for the freedom of choice you get when you work for Virgin then!

All I have for September is a 1 night New York, a block of 3 days SBY, and a Sydney.

15 days off. I'm quite worried about how I’m going to survive this month actually.

Whoever talks about staff travel is dreaming, I'd LOVE to take myself / friends / boyfriend away for a few nice days in the sun on my free of charge tickets, but guess what, theres NO WAY i could afford to!

Oh and as a final insult, but really no surprise, I didn't get my monthly flight request........ again!

[Denzil]

Get ready for another round of
"you knew what the salary was before you strarted"!!
&
"if you don't like it then leave & stop moaning"!!
All very constructive i'm sure.

Story is that VS are surprised & shocked as to how pi$$ed off the cabin crew are. Stick with it folks, 3 or 4% sounds good but as anybody knows 4% of nothing is still nothing!!!!!!

[virgincrew99]

The management never knew how p$ssed off the crew were come on!!! the staff turnover and the main reason for leaving is pay!!! and they never knew! once again the virgin management love to listen !

any increase in pay is better then nothing but to be offered a miserable 3% and still to have wages that are not in line with inflation thats just a joke!

dont get me wrong i love my job but i would like to be able to pay my bills and not struggle hence why i am willing to fight

thanks
join the union and have your say!!

[ozflyboy]

So guys - how are things going?? Is that 4% each year for the life of the agreement? Are you guys trying for more than that? (Bloody good on you if you are!)

When does it look like things might begin happening - or is it still a long way off?

Keep on fighting for it guys- those who just sit on their backsides in this industry don't get anywhere! It's the only way Aussie crew manage to have some of the best pay/conditions in the world.....for now.....

[monkeyhead]

To give you an idea ozflyboy:

I am VS crew. Last month I took home £896 and managed to keep about £180 of my allowences. I worked 5 trips and had 8 days off.

I share a flat and car with my boyfriend. My share of the rent is £475 and the car repayments £100 per month. On top of that I have to pay council tax and bills, etc etc.

My boyfriend works for BA, he is on long-haul, LHR. He is on the 'new contract'. Last month he did a Sydney trip, New York 'back-to-back' and a San Francisco. He had 12 days off and took home £2,100.00. 90% of their crew are in a union. God help BA if they DARED chop their allowences without consulting the crew.

I know no-one forces me to work for VS. And to be honest I love it. But next week I have my BA interview. Ozflyboy, LOADS of crew have left VS for BA over the past year. I am sick and tired of not being able to go on weekends away with my bloke or to buy stuff for the house.

In an ideal world id work for VS....with BA pay and conitions.

[Denzil]

Well said Monkeyhead (i'm assuming that there's a hidden meaning to your name and that you don't have a head like a monkey!!!), your comments and factual figures put it all into perspective. I'm sure that plenty of crew are ok working at VS because their other half earns decent money!!!!

[Tudor]

I totally agree that if the pay offer is that derisory then it should be rejected and CC89 should sit back down with Virgin and try and thrash out an improved deal.

However, after reading some of the posts on this thread I think one question that some of you should ask yourself is, "If I wasn't cabin crew for Virgin Atlantic, what job would I be doing and, more importantly, how much would I be earning?"

I gave up my crew job earlier this year 'cos I fancied a change and wanted to do some travelling. In my last year there I earned approximately £22,000. Now I'm back I'm unable to find a job that will pay me anything like that. I'm currently temping in a call centre for less than £300 a week and absolutely hate it! Fortunately I've been offered a job with an airline and start soon.

My point is to consider what you have and why you do it. By all means don't allow your employer to take the p**s but instead of comparing yourselves to BA consider the fact that there are plenty of cabin crew in the UK who don't even come out with £1000 a month.

I think we all realise that we are never going to be rich doing the job and I can fully sympathise with the frustrations of not been able to have a mortgage etc but these problems aren't unique to cabin crew. The lack of affordable housing in the south-east is well documented and affects a sizeable proportion of the population who'd like to get a foot on the property ladder.

Anyway, just my point of view...

[sukigirl]

Im not sure which airline you worked for before tudor but i can tell you that we are on nowhere near 22k. I am a senior crew member and have been with VS for 5 years, my salary is 12.5k!!
I doubt that there are any airlines that pay less than us as it is a well known fact that VS is the lowest paying long haul in this country (and probably lower than most short haul.)
I have actually heard (and this could just be galley FM so am happy to be corrected on this) that we are only just above air india on the pay scale and they are the lowest paid airline.

[Tudor]

I am a senior crew member and have been with VS for 5 years, my salary is 12.5k!!

If you add on to that figure your allowances what would the total be?

[sukigirl]

The allowances are supposedly an extra 7 k per year however rate of exchange affects this. for example pre 9/11 the USD rate was something like 1.6 now it varies between 1.8-1.97 at one poent it was 2.08! This makes a lot of difference, and its not always possible to bring it all home as you have to eat, but yes you dont have to use all your allowances.
On average a 1 night stop is $170. And you would need to buy dinner, breakfast, lunch and maybe dinner again depending on departure time, many crew just eat 1 meal to stock up on food so they dont have to spend more of their allowances but it shouldnt have to be like that.
Besides we get 4 weeks leave a year, not to mention time of sick or time not being called out on standby. These times you live on your basic which is a struggle. I think allowances are not the issue, what most of us want are better salary so we can take our supposed paid leave and not be skint.

[Tudor]

You may be interested to know that two (now ex) employees of a certain low-cost airline are taking said airline to an employment tribunal sometime this month due to the fact that they don't pay flight pay during leave. A law was introduced several years ago whereby employees who rely on special payments such as commission should be paid an average of that when they are on leave so the argument is that this should aply to crew. The argument is further strengthened by the fact that the airline pay pregnant cabin crew an average of their last three month's flight pay whilst they are sat at home.

If they are succesful then this should open the floodgates for other airlines to launch claims. A little off topic maybe but it may be worth mentioning to your union reps because I'm sure many crew are reluctant to take leave (at any airline!) due to the effect it has on their monthly wage...at the end of the day a seemingly small thing like that could make a big difference.

[sukigirl]

Thanks for your reply tudor, your right, a small thing like that would make a difference.
now i dont mean to slide of this forums topic but i have heard that our union are taking our company to court for screwing us out of our leave. for example if you want to take 2 weeks of you have to take 14 days of your leave, if your lucky, virgin will roster you 2 days of before your leave, these are called buffer days. Apart from that they dont inlude your days of, after your leave the next day you go straight back to work. its not like that for office staff and grounds staff. If they want 2 weeks of they take 10 days leave because they include their days of in between. Many times i have taken say 10 days leave in a month but still worked 14 days when we are supposed to do no more that 21 days in a month. (so therefore i only really had 7 days leave) when complaining to the company i was basically told that 'they were basically allowed to take there pound of flesh if we have leave in the month!' nice! how proffesional.
What company do you know that says to its staff 'right i see your taking your annual paid holiday this month, in that case can you work as many of the weekends to make up for it' ?!!
This has been going on for 21 years, how have they got away with it? We are supposed to get 28 days paid leave a year which is very good i think, however we as cabin crew are NOT getting that full entitlement of leave.
This may not seem like it has anything to do with this forum but it does all boil down to why we deserve more pay and why are we treated so differently to office and ground staff?
Anyway if this is true about the union taking virgin to court i wish them the best of luck, i dont really see how they couldnt win.

Sorry just one more example, many crew like to take a whole month of for their wedding, for the planning, honeymoon etc. To do so they have to take 21 days of their leave and then 7 days UNPAID LEAVE!! (as this happened to me and many other people i know) now surely if your taking 21 days leave thats a whole month of right there, you shouldnt have to pay to have your then entitled days of as well!!
Thats my rant about leave over with now, but i wanted to bring this to the cabin crews attention as i often find many crew are not aware this is happening with all of us untill its made clear. If we all fight against this and lean on the union a bit more (though if the rumour is true we wont need to) then this will all be sorted fairly eventually.

[realworld]

Get Real People

I have to say, all you fools that have put all your blah blah blah blah on this site need to wake up and get in the real world!

I used to work for an airline and heres a few facts.....

an airlines like VS earns a margin of around 4% on the money the invest. Tesco, where all you muppets shop makes a margin of around 20% - an average retrun on investment. Therefore, you think "Well virgin earned $80 million this year in profit therfore we should get a pay rise" GET REAL!

Your jobs are hard work but at the end of the day you fly 5 times a month, get a bus to the hotel lies on the beach and fly back. Do what you want. You serve meals on flights. Put the "safety" crap in the bin. How often does that happen? You could be fire marshall at a call centre in Luton and have as much responsibility at the end of the day?

If you don't like the job - piss off. You fly Upper with your partner on holiday, get cash to get pissed - whats the issue? If you don't like what you're paid leave.

FACTS
Airlines don't make money
Your job is easy compared to 95% of the UK population.
If it's not for you, and you don't like he pay - get a new job!

[sinala1]

Hmm I think "Realworld" needs to check him/herself then come back with a more constructive post once he/her has taken off their cranky pants