EBA & IR Issues in Australia (Not for those easily offended!)
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LHR base
Just to change the topic because this is getting tiresome. Some news on the LHR base.
In the last 3 weeks the QF 2 has been cancelled twice out of LHR. Reason, crew shortage! Apparently there is a problem with new IR laws there with crew only being able work a set amount of hours.
Average service times are still 5 hours. Passengers leaving in droves for Singapore, Emirates and Cathay.
Thai crew have been taken off Sydney based Frankfurt patterns for next bid period and possibly beyond to cover flying out of LHR.
Word from the finance department that the base is running 3 times over budget.
Notice how the publication ‘Source’ (which talks about customer satisfaction) seems to have been discontinued with no more monthly messages form ‘Kylie’
Apparently crisis talks are under way to try and solve this mess!
In the last 3 weeks the QF 2 has been cancelled twice out of LHR. Reason, crew shortage! Apparently there is a problem with new IR laws there with crew only being able work a set amount of hours.
Average service times are still 5 hours. Passengers leaving in droves for Singapore, Emirates and Cathay.
Thai crew have been taken off Sydney based Frankfurt patterns for next bid period and possibly beyond to cover flying out of LHR.
Word from the finance department that the base is running 3 times over budget.
Notice how the publication ‘Source’ (which talks about customer satisfaction) seems to have been discontinued with no more monthly messages form ‘Kylie’
Apparently crisis talks are under way to try and solve this mess!
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A kick in the Butt...
More management carcasses on the way.Who will be next to be accountable for this little(?)fiasco.
Get the K Y ready!!!
Dixon will begin by eating his own young!!
Get the K Y ready!!!
Dixon will begin by eating his own young!!
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Pro Golfer 69,
did you really have to?
Now we have to listen to the fundamentalist bull**** from paenutpusher about how wonderfull it all is with geoff's and lesley's "bastard child".
Reports in from a briefing in Syd the other day are insightful.
The CSM made mention of the qf spin suggesting that all is well with the base and customer satisfaction levels sky high.
The Thais burst out laughing and sniggering behind their hands.
Massive cost blowouts, poor service, 5 hour meal services, unforceen hours limitations, sick leave abuse, poor morale and Essex girls.
Quote-
"Apparently crisis talks are under way to try and solve this mess!"
The most humane thing to do with it would be to tie it to a tree and shoot it.
OBTW
Techies are bidding to get up there en masse as they are cutting a swathe through the unsuspecting "skankey ho's".
"but you told me you loved me...........".
Visions of sharks gorging on pilchard swarms off the WA coast come to mind..............
It's ALL gonna end in tears and someones gonna have to take the fall
did you really have to?
Now we have to listen to the fundamentalist bull**** from paenutpusher about how wonderfull it all is with geoff's and lesley's "bastard child".
Reports in from a briefing in Syd the other day are insightful.
The CSM made mention of the qf spin suggesting that all is well with the base and customer satisfaction levels sky high.
The Thais burst out laughing and sniggering behind their hands.
Massive cost blowouts, poor service, 5 hour meal services, unforceen hours limitations, sick leave abuse, poor morale and Essex girls.
Quote-
"Apparently crisis talks are under way to try and solve this mess!"
The most humane thing to do with it would be to tie it to a tree and shoot it.
OBTW
Techies are bidding to get up there en masse as they are cutting a swathe through the unsuspecting "skankey ho's".
"but you told me you loved me...........".
Visions of sharks gorging on pilchard swarms off the WA coast come to mind..............
It's ALL gonna end in tears and someones gonna have to take the fall
Last edited by speedbirdhouse; 15th Aug 2005 at 07:47.
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Jealousy is a terrible thing guys. When you all joined the airline you were all so perfect-knew exactly what to do, got the service done in 5 minutes etc.
The truth is most people(pax and tech crew) would much rather fly with the new LHR crews than the tired old Aussie ones. At least you get the occassional smile!
I bet if they set up a base in Manilla or JoBurg there wouldn't be as much complaining.Its just that you've lost a few London's and the bitchiness comes out. God help us if they take away the L.A's and give them all to locally based crew.
Just accept that change is inevitable(win some SFO etc and lose some LHR/CDG etc )and you all work for the same company.
The truth is most people(pax and tech crew) would much rather fly with the new LHR crews than the tired old Aussie ones. At least you get the occassional smile!
I bet if they set up a base in Manilla or JoBurg there wouldn't be as much complaining.Its just that you've lost a few London's and the bitchiness comes out. God help us if they take away the L.A's and give them all to locally based crew.
Just accept that change is inevitable(win some SFO etc and lose some LHR/CDG etc )and you all work for the same company.
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funbags,
Quote-
"just accept that change is inevitable(win some SFO etc and lose some LHR/CDG etc )and you all work for the same company."
You're a qantas pilot aren't you??
Being so, am I to believe that would fully support an offshore base of foreign pilots that undermine your terms, conditions and job security???????
Does the word, "hypocrite" mean anything to you?
Quote-
"just accept that change is inevitable(win some SFO etc and lose some LHR/CDG etc )and you all work for the same company."
You're a qantas pilot aren't you??
Being so, am I to believe that would fully support an offshore base of foreign pilots that undermine your terms, conditions and job security???????
Does the word, "hypocrite" mean anything to you?
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And who said QF were getting killed by Virgin Atlantic
Virgin struggles on air route
By Andrew Clark
August 15, 2005
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Virgin Atlantic's high-profile effort to crack the Australian market is proving a struggle for the British airline, which has admitted it is carrying poor loads and running up bigger losses than it expected.
Sir Richard Branson's carrier began flying the so-called kangaroo route from London to Sydney, via Hong Kong, in December. The airline pledged to shatter what it described as the "duopoly" held by Qantas and British Airways.
However, senior Virgin executives are increasingly concerned at the route's poor performance.
The Herald has learned that the airline is trying to negotiate a code-share with Singapore Airlines on flights between Singapore and Sydney, offering an alternative to its money-losing independent venture.
Virgin's head of Asia-Pacific operations, Mackenzie Grant, accepted that progress was proving slow. "We think it's going to take longer to get the load up to where we thought it would be," he said.
Mr Grant revealed that the financial outlay was proving greater than planned. "The economic performance hasn't been quite what we expected."
However, he dismissed rumours Virgin was considering pulling the plug on the venture, which Sir Richard last year described as a long-held personal ambition. "Can you imagine what it would do to us if we pulled off?" asked Mr Grant. "As a company, we're pretty keen to stay on routes. We don't pull off routes at the drop of a hat."
Virgin carried just over 3000 passengers into Australia in April and 3600 out of the country, according to the Bureau of Transport and Regional Economics' statistics. Its inbound flights were 33 per cent full and 36 per cent of its outbound seats were occupied.
Mr Grant said loads had increased over the winter to about 50 per cent on outbound flights from Sydney and 70 per cent on inbound aircraft.
The improvement, however, was aided by a two-for-one offer on economy seats to Hong Kong. The airline is "rationalising" its fares to offer standard return tickets of between $700 and $800 to the Chinese city.
Negotiations are under way for a deal with Singapore Airlines, which owns a 49 per cent stake in Virgin Atlantic. Under the proposal, Virgin could attach its flight codes to services from Singapore but flights would still be operated by Singapore Airlines' aircraft.
However, Mr Grant said a final agreement was some way off. Virgin would need to secure traffic rights for the route - although he said this was unlikely to be difficult, as "open skies" treaties were in place.
By Andrew Clark
August 15, 2005
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Email to a friend Printer format
Virgin Atlantic's high-profile effort to crack the Australian market is proving a struggle for the British airline, which has admitted it is carrying poor loads and running up bigger losses than it expected.
Sir Richard Branson's carrier began flying the so-called kangaroo route from London to Sydney, via Hong Kong, in December. The airline pledged to shatter what it described as the "duopoly" held by Qantas and British Airways.
However, senior Virgin executives are increasingly concerned at the route's poor performance.
The Herald has learned that the airline is trying to negotiate a code-share with Singapore Airlines on flights between Singapore and Sydney, offering an alternative to its money-losing independent venture.
Virgin's head of Asia-Pacific operations, Mackenzie Grant, accepted that progress was proving slow. "We think it's going to take longer to get the load up to where we thought it would be," he said.
Mr Grant revealed that the financial outlay was proving greater than planned. "The economic performance hasn't been quite what we expected."
However, he dismissed rumours Virgin was considering pulling the plug on the venture, which Sir Richard last year described as a long-held personal ambition. "Can you imagine what it would do to us if we pulled off?" asked Mr Grant. "As a company, we're pretty keen to stay on routes. We don't pull off routes at the drop of a hat."
Virgin carried just over 3000 passengers into Australia in April and 3600 out of the country, according to the Bureau of Transport and Regional Economics' statistics. Its inbound flights were 33 per cent full and 36 per cent of its outbound seats were occupied.
Mr Grant said loads had increased over the winter to about 50 per cent on outbound flights from Sydney and 70 per cent on inbound aircraft.
The improvement, however, was aided by a two-for-one offer on economy seats to Hong Kong. The airline is "rationalising" its fares to offer standard return tickets of between $700 and $800 to the Chinese city.
Negotiations are under way for a deal with Singapore Airlines, which owns a 49 per cent stake in Virgin Atlantic. Under the proposal, Virgin could attach its flight codes to services from Singapore but flights would still be operated by Singapore Airlines' aircraft.
However, Mr Grant said a final agreement was some way off. Virgin would need to secure traffic rights for the route - although he said this was unlikely to be difficult, as "open skies" treaties were in place.
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PeanutPoosher
So What?
A little while ago you told us QF loads were down because of bombings.
Perhaps this is affecting Virgin as well.
You guys have been hung out ot dry by QF management
1.Poorly trained
2.Little or no experience
3.You were going to be screwed for hours
4.You exist only to cut costs
5.Read Captainrats post a little back and see the base for what it is and how absolutely dispensable you are.
High attrition rates,rampant sick leave,poor morale,cost blowouts.
The train is coming and you are standing in the middle of the line denying its imminent arrival.
Denial is not a river in EGYPT.
Just keep trying to justify who and what you are and alll you do is make yourself a bigger target for ridicule.
A little while ago you told us QF loads were down because of bombings.
Perhaps this is affecting Virgin as well.
You guys have been hung out ot dry by QF management
1.Poorly trained
2.Little or no experience
3.You were going to be screwed for hours
4.You exist only to cut costs
5.Read Captainrats post a little back and see the base for what it is and how absolutely dispensable you are.
High attrition rates,rampant sick leave,poor morale,cost blowouts.
The train is coming and you are standing in the middle of the line denying its imminent arrival.
Denial is not a river in EGYPT.
Just keep trying to justify who and what you are and alll you do is make yourself a bigger target for ridicule.
Last edited by mach2male; 15th Aug 2005 at 08:46.
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speedbirdhouse
Quote from you:
"You're a qantas pilot aren't you??
Being so, am I to believe that would fully support an offshore base of foreign pilots that undermine your terms, conditions and job security???????"
Already happened - Jetconnect and Jetstar Asia(foreign), Jetstar(domestic). On half (or so) of our wages flying our old mainline routes and some new ones (Jetstar Asia) - no one likes it but what can you do to stop it ? Go on strike-yeah right-89 put paid to that.
Things will not remain the same unfortunately as they were back in the 60's or whenever the good times were.
Quote from you:
"You're a qantas pilot aren't you??
Being so, am I to believe that would fully support an offshore base of foreign pilots that undermine your terms, conditions and job security???????"
Already happened - Jetconnect and Jetstar Asia(foreign), Jetstar(domestic). On half (or so) of our wages flying our old mainline routes and some new ones (Jetstar Asia) - no one likes it but what can you do to stop it ? Go on strike-yeah right-89 put paid to that.
Things will not remain the same unfortunately as they were back in the 60's or whenever the good times were.
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How many people have left ??
ok smartarse
you know all !!!!!!!!!
How many crew have left ????? a grand 6 in total 2 not by choice
Sick leave is way down in last 2 months
Yes it is to save money and the moral is about 10 notches above my many years in SYD.
This post was in responce to he supposed hammeing we are getting out of HKG by VA.
It shows since December 04 that this route has struggled for VA and they arn't smashing us.
This was not LHR / SYD debate, we have moved on about a week ago.
you know all !!!!!!!!!
How many crew have left ????? a grand 6 in total 2 not by choice
Sick leave is way down in last 2 months
Yes it is to save money and the moral is about 10 notches above my many years in SYD.
This post was in responce to he supposed hammeing we are getting out of HKG by VA.
It shows since December 04 that this route has struggled for VA and they arn't smashing us.
This was not LHR / SYD debate, we have moved on about a week ago.
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Peanut
Don't know why your posting stuff about shagg Atlantic as they have never been mentioned! Perhaps you would like to explain why the Thai based crew will be operating on standby out of LHR for the rest of this bid period and all of the next ?
Don't know why your posting stuff about shagg Atlantic as they have never been mentioned! Perhaps you would like to explain why the Thai based crew will be operating on standby out of LHR for the rest of this bid period and all of the next ?
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LHR base having all the fun
I just heard from an infallible qf source that ops is generating patterns whereby the LHR base will also do the JFK flying
pax LHR - JFK operate JFK -LAX (transit)-JFK (2 slips in JFK) pax JFK -LHR.
Looks like the LHR base is having all the fun and flying.
pax LHR - JFK operate JFK -LAX (transit)-JFK (2 slips in JFK) pax JFK -LHR.
Looks like the LHR base is having all the fun and flying.
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Gee, I go away for a few days and all hell breaks loose!!!
Where do I start, so many choices.
Guardian1 now there is a theatrical name or a drama queen and Warped 57! A trekky perhaps
It appears as though the faaa has finally showed up. It sounds like this because of the words of Guardmyinterests telling us “the ex faaa we chucked out”
They have suddenly turned up because the vote for the JFK dispensation is nearly on us and they don’t want anyone to rock their boat, the SS Dixon.
I’ll start with Guardmyinterests,
If you think that my suggestion of independent legal advice is zany, then I’m really worried about the faaa and their followers.
You say that the faaa is effective, how about some of their latest successes.
The AO EBA, now there was a real winner for everyone.!!!
The reduced slips in LHR and Singapore, more wins for crew.!!!
I agree that the faaa is effective but the question is for whom???
The shuttle is tiring BUT it is not a threat to anyones health…Are you a doctor now?
How about an evacuation as happened in Toronto,after a 17 hour TOD, would that qualify as a threat.???
Warped..
It was me, not Peanutnob that suggested that we may be creating a precedent by giving dispensation for a JFK shuttle. As with the faaa you did not do your homework, very effective.!!!
“
Jetlagger if you dont want to do the pattern...u dont f*****g have to do it.”
What if you are called out on Standby…you really are a rocket scientist aren’t you.
“its not the company line.”…Funny, I thought that the company wants a JFK shuttle and it now appears that the faaa does as well.!!
QF= JFK Dispensation
Faaa= JFK Dispensation
Therefore: QF=Faaa
“The company doesn’t care if we don’t do the NY shuttle”
If the company didn’t want us to do the shuttle and it was cheaper to use the AKL based crew they would.!!!
Another Gem from our learned colleagues is that if it was dangerous, CASA would not allow it.Well, if it so safe to work these hours why do CASA not allow Tech crew to do these hours.
Any day now, we will inevitably get a newsletter from the media wing of QF, sorry the faaa authorized by GD...Sorry SR, telling us about the lies being put forth by the uninformed and it will sound as though QF wrote it.
Every Long Haul crew member should be asking the faaa for independent legal advice regarding the dispensation and not from the S, M & R Law firm.!!
If the faaa does not, then all crew should be asking why!
Where do I start, so many choices.
Guardian1 now there is a theatrical name or a drama queen and Warped 57! A trekky perhaps
It appears as though the faaa has finally showed up. It sounds like this because of the words of Guardmyinterests telling us “the ex faaa we chucked out”
They have suddenly turned up because the vote for the JFK dispensation is nearly on us and they don’t want anyone to rock their boat, the SS Dixon.
I’ll start with Guardmyinterests,
If you think that my suggestion of independent legal advice is zany, then I’m really worried about the faaa and their followers.
You say that the faaa is effective, how about some of their latest successes.
The AO EBA, now there was a real winner for everyone.!!!
The reduced slips in LHR and Singapore, more wins for crew.!!!
I agree that the faaa is effective but the question is for whom???
The shuttle is tiring BUT it is not a threat to anyones health…Are you a doctor now?
How about an evacuation as happened in Toronto,after a 17 hour TOD, would that qualify as a threat.???
Warped..
It was me, not Peanutnob that suggested that we may be creating a precedent by giving dispensation for a JFK shuttle. As with the faaa you did not do your homework, very effective.!!!
“
Jetlagger if you dont want to do the pattern...u dont f*****g have to do it.”
What if you are called out on Standby…you really are a rocket scientist aren’t you.
“its not the company line.”…Funny, I thought that the company wants a JFK shuttle and it now appears that the faaa does as well.!!
QF= JFK Dispensation
Faaa= JFK Dispensation
Therefore: QF=Faaa
“The company doesn’t care if we don’t do the NY shuttle”
If the company didn’t want us to do the shuttle and it was cheaper to use the AKL based crew they would.!!!
Another Gem from our learned colleagues is that if it was dangerous, CASA would not allow it.Well, if it so safe to work these hours why do CASA not allow Tech crew to do these hours.
Any day now, we will inevitably get a newsletter from the media wing of QF, sorry the faaa authorized by GD...Sorry SR, telling us about the lies being put forth by the uninformed and it will sound as though QF wrote it.
Every Long Haul crew member should be asking the faaa for independent legal advice regarding the dispensation and not from the S, M & R Law firm.!!
If the faaa does not, then all crew should be asking why!
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Frog****
There is no such thing as an infallible source.
They can`t cover the flying they`ve got
Just another windup from someone who has one handed entertainment as their primary source of enjoyment
They can`t cover the flying they`ve got
Just another windup from someone who has one handed entertainment as their primary source of enjoyment
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lost opportunities
I'm no mate of peanut brain , but more & more I'm hearing from a lot of L/H crew a quiet regret they never took up the LHR base offer now that it hasn't fallen on its arse.
the faaa could have controlled this base unlike the BKK & AKL ones.
instead of 400 LHR based colleagues and friends of the faaa we've got at best an indifferent, at worst a potentially antagonistic workforce.
dumb, dumb dumb.
better having them inside the tent pissing out than pissing in & on us.
the faaa could have controlled this base unlike the BKK & AKL ones.
instead of 400 LHR based colleagues and friends of the faaa we've got at best an indifferent, at worst a potentially antagonistic workforce.
dumb, dumb dumb.
better having them inside the tent pissing out than pissing in & on us.
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Who Says?
Big Pitcher...
I think you have a lot of imaginary friends who tell you exactly what you want to hear.
There are not 400 colleagues in LHR.It is less than 75 who came from Australia.
The rest are individuals who are getting some experience so they can eventually go and work for a real airline.
One that is professional and cares about its employees.
Not one run by a poison dwarf.
I think you have a lot of imaginary friends who tell you exactly what you want to hear.
There are not 400 colleagues in LHR.It is less than 75 who came from Australia.
The rest are individuals who are getting some experience so they can eventually go and work for a real airline.
One that is professional and cares about its employees.
Not one run by a poison dwarf.
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Just some info
Here is a cut and paste from the Virgin Atlantic pay thread
It comes from Virgincrew99
and shows how poor some major airlines pay there crew. Don't do yourself out of a job in the long run.
The LHR base take home for f/a's is about 300 quid a month better.
posted 14th August 2005 14:31
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hi guys thank you for your replys
heres how virgin atlantic pay structure works
as a new junior cabin crew member
you clear in your monthly salary £800-£875 a month this includes your commission which is usually about £15 a month
for each trip you do you are paid around £25 a return sector
when you arrive at your outstation hotel you recieve a food allowance for example if you night stop in jfk you will receive
$176 us dollars
on a senior cabin crew your are clearing between £900-£950 a month
and a purser or c.s.s cabin service supervisor its about £200 more on top of a senior salary
while doing S.e.p you have to pay for your own accomdation and travel expenses out of your basic pay
so that is five night accomdation in a b&b and food which you have to pay for
It comes from Virgincrew99
and shows how poor some major airlines pay there crew. Don't do yourself out of a job in the long run.
The LHR base take home for f/a's is about 300 quid a month better.
posted 14th August 2005 14:31
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hi guys thank you for your replys
heres how virgin atlantic pay structure works
as a new junior cabin crew member
you clear in your monthly salary £800-£875 a month this includes your commission which is usually about £15 a month
for each trip you do you are paid around £25 a return sector
when you arrive at your outstation hotel you recieve a food allowance for example if you night stop in jfk you will receive
$176 us dollars
on a senior cabin crew your are clearing between £900-£950 a month
and a purser or c.s.s cabin service supervisor its about £200 more on top of a senior salary
while doing S.e.p you have to pay for your own accomdation and travel expenses out of your basic pay
so that is five night accomdation in a b&b and food which you have to pay for
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Big Putcher revision
So the numbers get revised downward from 400 to 183.
Now how about we talk about those who are ex Longhaul and not shorthaul.
You will find its less than 75.Shorthaul make up the bulk from Australia.
They are definitely not colleagues.
What is your understanding of the meaning of "angst"
There is no angst in my posts.Just contempt for buffoons.
Now how about we talk about those who are ex Longhaul and not shorthaul.
You will find its less than 75.Shorthaul make up the bulk from Australia.
They are definitely not colleagues.
What is your understanding of the meaning of "angst"
There is no angst in my posts.Just contempt for buffoons.